Why all the hate for SS?

[RNG Princess]

@ Elmer I found it funny

Edited July 11, 2011 by Queen_Kittylincia

[General Banzai]

I honestly don't see what's so memorable about that comment.

Oh I'm sorry. I guess if you're expecting not to be amused, you're not going to be amused.

[Momo]

Still doesn't fill out your entire form, since there's no "kingdom" (especially because your target changes from bandits to laus to black fang to morphs, with some bern mixed in), no one's kingdom invades the other (Pherae/Ostia invade Laus then the Black Fang), and there wasn't any control; just manipulation from Nergal to the black fang. The "Princess" is not related to any kingdom except the final kingdom in the chain of command, and frankly most people don't even know that Ninian is nergal's daughter on the first playthrough.

Replace "kingdom" with "evil group". That is what I meant by slight deviation, one word changed describes them both. Also, the black fang and morphs are both the same group. Like I said, Ninian isn't a literal princess but she's the daughter of the big bad and is important to his plan.

Basically boils down to some point I keep making but you keep ignoring; a similar premise does not mean the same plot, and there are more than just "slight" differences.

The premise is exactly the same as every other game and does not play out any differently.

[Mirron]

You're welcome to feel that way, but I feel there are plenty of differences. You can generalize if you like, but that doesn't really make them all the same, or nearly the same game. Similarities exist, yes, but I'm sure I can find similarities between any number of things if I generalize them enough. To me, at least, they're still unique games with plenty of differences.

[Lord Raven]

*snip*

Not my point; the finer details are way more important than the general premise. Since when do the beginning and end of a story matter in the grand scheme of everything?

The point of my first half was that the entire plot fucked around with your formula with more than just slight deviations. They changed entire words, meaning you have to actually stretch it in order for it to apply to FE7. That doesn't get into the fact that the entire first and last sentences did not really apply to FE7 anyway; you're just trying to prove the second sentence.

Morphs and Black Fang weren't the same, the hell are you talking about? They're connected -- through Sonia -- but the Black Fang were also being controlled through Sonia (by Nergal). Doesn't mean they're the same, it just means one was being used by the other. The chain of manipulations was one of the differences between this and, say, FE6/9/1/3 which adhere to your formula (and even then they're all completely different games with different points; FE6 seemed like it meant to serve as a sort of parallel to FE1&3 anyway).

Generalizing is fucking retarded. You can easily twist things in order to make them seem exactly the same when they're really not. It's exactly like saying that Tales of Symphonia and Final Fantasy X are exactly the same game because it's a plot about a "Love interest who comes from a weird background and a girl who is planning on sacrificing her life to regenerate the world. The love interest has father issues, too. At some moment, they realize the religion of their world is a total lie and there exists an alternate world outside of theirs, so they decide to fight the fate that their pilgrimage has lead them to and find a way so that everyone wins..." which is true... except that FFX and TOS are still completely different games.

Also, I find 11's plot better because not trying is better than making something bad.

So people should always have a defeatist attitude instead of shooting for the stars? Christ you're pessimistic. Edited July 11, 2011 by Mercenary Raven

[dondon151]

Pent has a BASE res of 16. With one Pure Water/Barrier Staff, he has over 100% staff avoid.

Priscilla by that time should have at least 20 res. That's over 100% staff avoid.

Harken has a BASE res of 11. With one Pure Water/Barrier Staff, he has 90% staff avoid, and that assumes the enemy is right next to him.

Already been shot down multiple times by citing the staff accuracy formula, but did you even read my post? I said that Pent will be facing around 50% staff hit after a max Pure Water bonus because I already did the calculation. Have you even played this chapter before?

Priscilla doesn't reach 20 res until 20/6 on average. A better estimate puts her closer to 12/4, or 15 res on average.

[Paperblade]

Lloyd is the reason Cog is hard?

wut

There is a difference between "the" and "a/an." The indicates that is the (HEY THERE'S THAT WORD AGAIN) only way/reason, whereas a/an implies that it is one of many. For example, Lloyd is A reason that CoD is hard/annoying, because he has stupid avoid, can't be crit, and hurts hard at melee range (which is what you will be attacking from because your magic users don't do any fucking damage to him).

I hate internet arguments, you people always do this.

Honestly, FE6 has more memorable convos than FE7, and that's fairly pathetic.

The only memorable character in FE6 was Gonzales, stop being facetious.

Edited July 11, 2011 by Paperkitty

[-Cynthia-]

FESD is the least entertaining game in the series both story wise and gameplay. I can't remember the plot anyways I think it was Marth trying to rescue his sister and he ends up fighting dragons. FE4 and FE5 are some of the best written, I'm also very fond of FE9 and FE10, they go into detail (esp. FE10) FE 7 and FE8 are also well written imo.

@Paperkitty I find Neimi more interesting so I'll have to say Neimi > Wil

but FESD is the worst, FE fans should hate that game and not SS ^^'

Agreed, I couldn't even stomach FESD enough to get past a few chapters, whereas I've played through SS multiple times.

Edited July 11, 2011 by -Cynthia-

[Raven]

I'm not sure exactly who hates FE8. Personally, I love it, and always have.

I have given FE8 much more playtime than FE7, especially with the Creature Campaign and the ability to get every unit promoted with every stat capped. Some may not see any point in this, but it's given me reason to play it more than FE7. And playable Lyon.

I also see nothing wrong with FE8's difficulty, assuming you don't abuse towers, ruins and skirmishes. There's always patches that can be downloaded to increase difficulty, assuming you're playing it on your computer.

Edited July 11, 2011 by V-Raven

[Hippoman]

I'm only interjecting on this one point merely to say that we shouldn't act like FE7 didn't have a lot of dumb support convos. Louise braiding Guy's hair, the bird nesting in Geitz's hair, Dart's treasure map of no one cares as it goes nowhere, Lowen's supports either being "I forgot to make breakfast" or getting bitchslapped by Marcus, Kent and Fiora having much ado about nothing and falling in love with each other over it because they get off on being boring, I could go on.

FE7's royal part of the cast was more interesting, but I like FE8's common people cast better. I think there's some tradeoffs, but I wouldn't say either cast is much better than the other.

Overall, I think Fe9 had the best cast in the series. While they didn't have anything particularly interesting about their lives, they at least had the most personality.

They do reuse the hair braiding one in FE12 with Navarre and Feena. And, I must admit, I enjoyed Lowen getting bitch slapped by Marcus.

[General Banzai]

Already been shot down multiple times by citing the staff accuracy formula, but did you even read my post? I said that Pent will be facing around 50% staff hit after a max Pure Water bonus because I already did the calculation. Have you even played this chapter before?

Priscilla doesn't reach 20 res until 20/6 on average. A better estimate puts her closer to 12/4, or 15 res on average.

12/4? Wtf

In fact, I have played this chapter before. Three times. Twice were S Ranking.

And again, I'm gonna call into question the supposition that the enemy Valkyries have 28 Mag. For starters, that's 3 points over their cap.

The enemy druids DO have that much mag, but they're by Lloyd and not a large factor on the map as a whole until you've already cleared most of the large enemy waves.

There is a difference between "the" and "a/an." The indicates that is the (HEY THERE'S THAT WORD AGAIN) only way/reason, whereas a/an implies that it is one of many. For example, Lloyd is A reason that CoD is hard/annoying, because he has stupid avoid, can't be crit, and hurts hard at melee range (which is what you will be attacking from because your magic users don't do any fucking damage to him).

I hate internet arguments, you people always do this.

Pretty easy to waste him with Canas. Owait nobody uses Canas

The only memorable character in FE6 was Gonzales, stop being facetious.

Niime, Hugh, Saul, Treck, Narshen

Edited July 11, 2011 by General Banzai

[Joerachi]

Guess what?

The Druids move.

[Lord Raven]

In fact, I have played this chapter before. Three times. Twice were S Ranking.

S ranking != efficiency

dondon's 0% growth sets his low turncount at 197 turns... you need 310 to s-rank. You could probably get lower than 197 turns through over 0% growths.

Edited July 11, 2011 by Mercenary Raven

[Janissary]

What, exactly, is good about it?

[General Banzai]

Guess what?

The Druids move.

6 move + 14 staff range = 20 range. Which means they aren't going to be attacking you until you're halfway through the map, and have already dispatched the Valkyries.

IIRC, only one of them has a staff anyways. But I may be wrong on that.

S ranking != efficiency

dondon's 0% growth sets his low turncount at 197 turns... you need 310 to s-rank. You could probably get lower than 197 turns through over 0% growths.

If I were going to speedrun, then I'd do a speedrun. Otherwise, I don't care what some people on here arbitrarily consider "efficient". If the game itself considers 310 the fastest you need to go to get the maximum reward for playing, then that's as fast as you need to go.

[Lord Raven]

310's the max turn count so its the slowest you need to go for in-game rewards, but I guess I was trying to point out that you two are debating on different terms; Cog of Destiny ranked is different than Cog of Destiny efficient. You can afford to turtle a little bit in ranked, whereas in efficient you really can't.

[Loki Laufeyson]

I'm not sure exactly who hates FE8. Personally, I love it, and always have.

I have given FE8 much more playtime than FE7, especially with the Creature Campaign and the ability to get every unit promoted with every stat capped. Some may not see any point in this, but it's given me reason to play it more than FE7. And playable Lyon.

I also see nothing wrong with FE8's difficulty, assuming you don't abuse towers, ruins and skirmishes. There's always patches that can be downloaded to increase difficulty, assuming you're playing it on your computer.

Hell yeah. I like to get everybody to level 20/20 if i can. And then mess with the stat boosters if im feeling saucy. Also playable Lyon with summoning and an unbreakable tome does rule.

Oh and i never cared for Shadow Dragon. Soooorrrryyy.

[Just call me AL]

Pretty easy to waste him with Canas. Owait nobody uses Canas.

Dude. Canas is one of the worst choices one can make when fighting against Lloyd. He faces WTD at distance. At best, Canas is facing, what? Around 30 hit at distance? It's not wise for him to get up close and personal either since Lloyd has around a 1 out of 5 chance to OHKO the guy. And even then, 50 hit and a dangerously high chance of getting ORKO'd isn't enough to warrant a gamble like that.

My numbers may be off, due to limited resources, but they can't be far off.

Oh and speedruns =/= efficient runs. Speedruns are FAR more luck based than efficient runs.

Edited July 12, 2011 by Elmer

[General Banzai]

Dude. Canas is one of the worst choices one can make when fighting against Lloyd. He faces WTD at distance. At best, Canas is facing, what? Around 30 hit at distance? It's not wise for him to get up close and personal since, Lloyd has around a 1 out of 5 chance to OHKO the guy. And even then, 50 hit and a dangerously high chance of getting ORKO'd isn't enough to warrant a gamble like that.

My numbers may be off, due to limited resources, but they can't be far off.

Oh and speedruns =/= efficient runs. Speedruns are FAR more luck based than efficient runs.

Why would one ever go right next to Lloyd with Canas? That's... silly.

So an efficient run is faster than the game actually cares, but slower than the maximum. So... why?

[Just call me AL]

Why would one ever go right next to Lloyd with Canas? That's... silly.

That's exactly my point. And not to mention all you'll be mainly doing is wasting dark tome uses attacking Lloyd indirectly with Canas.

[General Banzai]

That's exactly my point. And not to mention all you'll be mainly doing is wasting dark tome uses attacking Lloyd indirectly with Canas.

You have more Luna than you'll ever need. I did some calculations and he's more like to have somewhere between 40-50% hit, which isn't THAT bad.

[Just call me AL]

You have more Luna than you'll ever need. I did some calculations and he's more like to have somewhere between 40-50% hit, which isn't THAT bad.

Completely disrearging the WTD over here. Adding to that: Those hit rates you mentioned are 32.50 and 50.50 in true hit. I'd rather not take my chances either way.

[General Banzai]

Completely disrearging the WTD over here. Adding to that: Those hit rates you mentioned are 32.50 and 50.50 in true hit. I'd rather not take my chances either way.

Wrong, I added in WTD.

I think the main difference in our stats comes from what level we figure Canas will be at by that point. Because I'm fairly certain you're basing your stuff off of an "efficient" run, while I'm basing it on merely S Ranking.

[Just call me AL]

Wrong, I added in WTD.

I think the main difference in our stats comes from what level we figure Canas will be at by that point. Because I'm fairly certain you're basing your stuff off of an "efficient" run, while I'm basing it on merely S Ranking.

Either way, Canas isn't exactly a top contender for fighting Lloyd. You're better off using people like Sain, Kent, Florina, among some examples.

[Paperblade]

Dude. Canas is one of the worst choices one can make when fighting against Lloyd. He faces WTD at distance. At best, Canas is facing, what? Around 30 hit at distance? It's not wise for him to get up close and personal either since Lloyd has around a 1 out of 5 chance to OHKO the guy. And even then, 50 hit and a dangerously high chance of getting ORKO'd isn't enough to warrant a gamble like that.

My numbers may be off, due to limited resources, but they can't be far off.

Oh and speedruns =/= efficient runs. Speedruns are FAR more luck based than efficient runs.

Which are still incredibly luck based.