OrangeCrush980 Posted August 1, 2011 Share Posted August 1, 2011 This is also why I believe there is a certain quality to FESD's story. While it seems empty and primitive, I feel the emptiness allows you yourself to fill in your own blanks, and in effect create the story yourself as you play. A game where those blanks are filled in for you can be good as well, if the story is good. If the story is bad, however, which is what I am trying to claim about FE7, then there is no opportunity for you to create your own story as the story is already there.[/size][/color] Are you seriously saying that Shadow Dragon's plot is better than FE7's? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Momo Posted August 1, 2011 Share Posted August 1, 2011 I might seriously say that, though I haven't really thought about it a whole lot. When things are kept simple, they're typically more consistent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
General Banzai Posted August 1, 2011 Author Share Posted August 1, 2011 (edited) I've read a peer-reviewed article in a respected academic journal analyzing the plot of Space Invaders. (And another analyzing the plot of Grand Theft Auto: San Andreas). So yeah, Fire Emblem is fair game. And yes, I am saying that FESD has a better plot than FE7. Edited August 1, 2011 by General Banzai Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Florete Posted August 1, 2011 Share Posted August 1, 2011 Are you seriously saying that Shadow Dragon's plot is better than FE7's? Shadow Dragon had a plot? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
General Banzai Posted August 1, 2011 Author Share Posted August 1, 2011 Shadow Dragon had a plot? Indeed it did. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paperblade Posted August 1, 2011 Share Posted August 1, 2011 And yes, I am saying that FESD has a better plot than FE7. itt: null > -1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bottlegnomes Posted August 1, 2011 Share Posted August 1, 2011 I've read a peer-reviewed article in a respected academic journal analyzing the plot of Space Invaders. (And another analyzing the plot of Grand Theft Auto: San Andreas). So yeah, Fire Emblem is fair game. And yes, I am saying that FESD has a better plot than FE7. Going by that logic, though, couldn't you say FE7 just let's you fill in the blanks yourself, much like you say SD does? None of these holes outright contradict anything in the plot. They just seem kind of weird when taken at face value, but can, for the most part, be explained away at least somewhat reasonably with a little inferring. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
General Banzai Posted August 1, 2011 Author Share Posted August 1, 2011 Going by that logic, though, couldn't you say FE7 just let's you fill in the blanks yourself, much like you say SD does? None of these holes outright contradict anything in the plot. They just seem kind of weird when taken at face value, but can, for the most part, be explained away at least somewhat reasonably with a little inferring. Having a plot full of holes isn't the same as having a blank slate. Especially in regards to the characters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paperblade Posted August 1, 2011 Share Posted August 1, 2011 Something that doesn't exist cannot be compared to something that does. Therefore, FESD's plot cannot be better than FE7's plot. Because FESD had no plot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Momo Posted August 1, 2011 Share Posted August 1, 2011 (edited) Going by that logic, though, couldn't you say FE7 just let's you fill in the blanks yourself, much like you say SD does? None of these holes outright contradict anything in the plot. They just seem kind of weird when taken at face value, but can, for the most part, be explained away at least somewhat reasonably with a little inferring. You don't really need to fill in blanks for 11, what you see is all that's there. The game was originally made in 1990 afteral. Something that doesn't exist cannot be compared to something that does. Therefore, FESD's plot cannot be better than FE7's plot. Because FESD had no plot. So having cancer is better than not having cancer? Edited August 1, 2011 by Saloma Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paperblade Posted August 1, 2011 Share Posted August 1, 2011 So having cancer is better than not having cancer? Having cancer is better than having never been born. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
General Banzai Posted August 1, 2011 Author Share Posted August 1, 2011 FE7 is a building full of holes and in need of repair. You have a broad, detailed plot but there are several things wrong with it. FESD is an empty foundation. It has a tight, basic framework and not much else. Even if you spend all your time plugging in FE7's holes, you're still stuck with a story where nothing much happens and the characters have little or no development, where the tone is jarringly incompatible with what happens. With FESD, though, you can build your own building, which can be as good as you want it to be. That's my analogy for it, at least. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Momo Posted August 1, 2011 Share Posted August 1, 2011 Having cancer is better than having never been born. If that were valid FE11 would not exist. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paperblade Posted August 1, 2011 Share Posted August 1, 2011 If that were valid FE11 would not exist. Man, I don't want to get into a stupid political argument about human rights, but one could argue that since you are alive for some period of time as a fetus, this would constitute FE11's plot's "lifespan". Its lifespan so short as to be pathetic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eclipse Posted August 1, 2011 Share Posted August 1, 2011 (edited) ITT: Having no plot is better than an attempt at one. I happen to be very fond of SD, but the plot isn't something I'll lose sleep over. Edited August 1, 2011 by Clipseykitty Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
General Banzai Posted August 1, 2011 Author Share Posted August 1, 2011 Man, I don't want to get into a stupid political argument about human rights, but one could argue that since you are alive for some period of time as a fetus, this would constitute FE11's plot's "lifespan". Its lifespan so short as to be pathetic. Video games have the opportunity to be unique, but as games have evolved, games that aspire to have deep and compelling stories have just added more cutscenes (MGS, Xenosaga, FF), making them more like movies with gameplay in-between. But I don't play games to watch a movie's length of cutscenes and then have gameplay for two hours. I want story with my gameplay. The logical evolution, I would think, is that we moved towards the storyline happening DURING the gameplay--but instead we're moving in the opposite direction. ^This is what FESD does, btw Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Momo Posted August 1, 2011 Share Posted August 1, 2011 Man, I don't want to get into a stupid political argument about human rights, but one could argue that since you are alive for some period of time as a fetus, this would constitute FE11's plot's "lifespan". Its lifespan so short as to be pathetic. FE7/11 = Person Plot = Cancer That's what I meant. If not having a plot was equal to not existing (and thus not having cancer) than the game FE11 wouldn't exist. I also disagree with what Banzai just posted. The way I see it is, if you're going to make a game with a complete mess of a plot, you might as well just not try. IS' writing privileges were taken away, so to speak. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paperblade Posted August 1, 2011 Share Posted August 1, 2011 The absence of plot is not a plot. There is no plot to combine gameplay with. I'm saying they could do things differently than trying to make a movie with gameplay in between. I did not ask them to completely remove the plot. You know how I know they didn't do what I'm hoping they do? I have no fucking clue what was going on in FEDS. Marth fought bandits, attacked random countries, then killed some dragons. If I'm supposed to care about the plot, that shouldn't happen. A foundation allows others to make a good story, but it in and of itself is NOT a good story. Having an interesting setting does not make you a good writer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HF Makalov Fanboy Kai Posted August 1, 2011 Share Posted August 1, 2011 (edited) the fact that people are willing to degrade FE11...which is basicly the first FE game improved...which is also the reason why we are even on this fourm shocks me greatly. just like with transformer fans, i thought that Fire emblem fans should hold high respect for the origenal of the series cause without it, there would be no other games of its series. also if you really want too i'll take up this discussion about FE1's plot(same as Shadow Dragon's but without the tutorial's) to the NES board where this classic gem of an game belongs instead of an board where it doesn't Edited August 1, 2011 by Red Fox of Fire Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bottlegnomes Posted August 1, 2011 Share Posted August 1, 2011 It could be said that FE7 is up to interpretation. It presents things and allows you to come to the conclusions you will given the information you have. SD has Marth goes to kill the big bad dragon. That's about it. It has no more motion that FE7. Marth doesn't mature, none of the other characters, save Nyna, who also doesn't mature, are developed at all to the point that they're pretty much scenery. For that matter, Eliwood and co do mature. They realize dragons aren't these big bad monsters that they thought they were. Ninian and Nils realize that not all humans are power-hungry assholes who will stop at nothing to advance their own goals. Jaffar goes from being basically a sociopath to caring about Nino. So if anything, SD has less motion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HF Makalov Fanboy Kai Posted August 1, 2011 Share Posted August 1, 2011 i won't defend FE1/11 or compair it to FE7 cause those are two very different timelines(as in when they were made) that we are compairing. i'm just shocked that people don't respect what started the entire series, they don't have to like the game, just hold respect for being an innovator and why our lives are much better today(less fire emblem has ruined your life then ignore my post) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Just call me AL Posted August 1, 2011 Share Posted August 1, 2011 (edited) I'm just shocked that people don't respect what started the entire series. They don't have to like the game, just hold respect for being an innovator and why our lives are much better today. That's the Seinfeld is Unfunny trope for you, Kai. Edited August 1, 2011 by Elmer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
General Banzai Posted August 1, 2011 Author Share Posted August 1, 2011 (edited) It could be said that FE7 is up to interpretation. It presents things and allows you to come to the conclusions you will given the information you have. SD has Marth goes to kill the big bad dragon. That's about it. It has no more motion that FE7. Marth doesn't mature, none of the other characters, save Nyna, who also doesn't mature, are developed at all to the point that they're pretty much scenery. For that matter, Eliwood and co do mature. They realize dragons aren't these big bad monsters that they thought they were. Ninian and Nils realize that not all humans are power-hungry assholes who will stop at nothing to advance their own goals. Jaffar goes from being basically a sociopath to caring about Nino. So if anything, SD has less motion. Marth: Today, there was this commoner... She mentioned Grust was divided about the war. Some of its people wanted to fight with Altea, she said...Ever since I lost my father and kingdom, I've held nothing but hate in my heart for Gra and Grust...but not once did I give any thought to what must have been going on in their heads. Nyna: And now you find your hate for them has been lessened? Marth: No... the hate remains. I will never forget the pain they inflicted upon me, the rage I felt. Yet now, at least, I can tell you it's not just hate...Not anymore. Eliwood and friends learn that dragons aren't monsters? That'd sound nice if it actually happened at any point in the story. I do believe the final boss being a dragon is a testament to just how much they learned. Edited August 1, 2011 by General Banzai Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HF Makalov Fanboy Kai Posted August 1, 2011 Share Posted August 1, 2011 That's the Seinfeld is Unfunny trope for you, Kai. nooooooooo, why must you make me rememeber the tropes site X_X. all drama aside, i hate it when the site speaks the truth(which is around half the time). but i mean...transformer fans don't have this problem...so why do fire emblem fans do... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Momo Posted August 1, 2011 Share Posted August 1, 2011 Couldn't you say the same for Gra and Grust being the main enemies for pretty much the entire game? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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