Grandjackal's FE6 Hard Mode Low Turn Attempts!

[grandjackal]

This topic is just a thinly veiled way to give GJ more bs arguments to try to up them on the tier list...

BORS FOAR TOP TIER !!!!111!21!!!!!1!1!

Now now, child and his grandparent, let's agree that the differences would be insignificant at best, and that the weird level issue would be more a signification that feeding Allen exp early on is good more than anything.

But yes, I'mma rock and roll with Bors, because I have to own up to everything with every FE6 playthrough from here on it. It's kinda like I'm on parole for the stuff I did when I first showed up here.

[Toothache]

Just going to point out that Slater usually is not 2HKO'd by 9 str Marcus or Dieck.

9 str + ((8-1)*3) = 30 mt on Armorslayer

Slater's defensive parameters are 30 HP/12 Def + throne for 15 damage per attack.

[dondon151]

No, Slater usually has 13 def, not 12 def. I don't know if his HM bonuses are generated at the beginning of the chapter or on turn 3, but if it's the former, then he has 13 def every time the player starts the map from a chapter save after a reset.

EDIT: I can confirm that Slater's HM bonuses are generated on turn 3, so short of consciously abusing the RNG, there's no way to ensure that he's 2HKO'd or 3HKO'd by base str Marcus or Dieck with Armorslayer.

Edited August 1, 2011 by dondon151

[grandjackal]

So, I did chapter 3, but I'm not happy with it and might redo it. I'll list reasons as to why in a log.

Chapter 4

Turns Taken: 9, and here's why

1. Rutger sort of oppressed me. I had an idea to send Roy up north with Allen transporting him, but not only does this severely limit my forces at the start (really unusual for FE that I'm worried about the guys lagging behind), I basically have to hope Marcus lands a bunch of crits to clear the way so that Roy/Allen/Clarine don't get slaughtered coming out the north path. Besides, I checked the spacing, and considering you want Rutger this map can be done in 6 turns, but Rutger and that killer edge will more than pay you back), it takes 7 turns for Roy to walk his way to the throne anyways, not to mention all he really needs at worst is one rescue chain. There is a problem with this, namely you gotta rush Roy quite deep in before Rutger shows up, because he locks down a lot of space with how insanely deadly he is, then you basically have to hope he moves in the direction Clarine is. I basically failed to get into position, mainly due to...Well, missing. I'll get to that in point 4.

2. I forgot to give Marcus a vuln, causing him to have to retreat for a turn.

3. Eric is really dumb. Like, he is surprisingly hard to touch with anything. Even Rutger has like...50s hit on him. That's fucking stupid. If Rutger cost me 1 turn, then Eric cost me another. In fact, it's kinda why I'm thinking of not redoing this map, because Eric is an aggrivating twat due to how unecessarily ass accuracy is in this game. Even if I restart, with my luck I'll just miss too many times anyways and would probably wind up in the same position I am now. I don't emulate, but if that balance patch people are talking about happens, I'm going to be.

4. The army you have to bust down is also insane. Laus grew some balls since FE7, because 28-34 HP 8-9 Def 7-9 Spd with 7 move is just bonkers. Even after Marcus sticks them with a silver lance, that's like half health MAX, and then you have to have your blind-as-a-fucking-bat army deal with them, and even then most of your army can barely scratch these guys. It's so easy to just miss a bunch of key hits and your run is botched. I don't even care if this balance patch updates the cast, I just want acc that isn't god awful. That would fix a lot.

So, my strat. Pretty simple really. Marcus charges ahead and silver lances the shit out of anything that dares breathe on him, move forward, chug vulnery, repeat (I forgot to give him one, but that retreat of his wasn't the costly part of this strat. It sucked, but that's not what cost me overall) while Roy marches his way to the throne. Roy's got about 3 spaces of error before he needs a rescue chain (though he's probably gonna get one anyways, thank you Rutger, you asshole). The things you let Marcus weaken you basically have them feed themselves to the group. As Roy marched on, I realized that Rapier is a godsend here. Not that he does a lot of damage with it, but because he does a good chunk of damage while actually having accuracy on these pricks. He doesn't need to be more than base level to be pretty helpful here.

Lou is another great help here, because again his accuracy let's him deal damage, since no one else seems capable of actually hitting things in this game. Him+Roy can do like a minimum of 19 damage to 1 cav, so that eases things up considerably.

Outside of Marcus, Allen and Lance...Well again, Allen is just better. Lance didn't have the speed to double, nor did he have the durability to not get 2RKOd, while Allen had that and the ability to deal good damage (Even if Lance had 11 Spd, that's only 7 AS cavs, of whom are RARE). Allen's damage was again pretty clutch here.

As for Deick's group, the only one of them that was any real help was Deick himself, mainly because that Iron Blade busts Nomads like a boss. Him+Lou=Dead Nomads. Thany, as I realized, didn't actually need to visit houses. By the time you can nab the throne, Merlinus could get the Angel Robe EVEN IF he goes shopping at both the shop and armory, and Chad can get the Door Key and then go fetch the Steel Blade in that time. This leaves Thany able to contribute...Which isn't much, because her damage is not that great against just about everything not Archers, and even then it's only decent at best. Along with the fact there are a scary amount of bows in this level, it's hard to safely move Thany in to do anything. Ward and Lot were really busy missing everything, and could only be considered "Things that finishes other things off that no one else can at the time, and they only do so if I cross my fingers and pray to Anubis to reap the souls of my enemies". Not having the Halberd is balls. It doesn't save turns, but I imagine it potentially could make life easier at times. Half the time, something dies. I want that back.

Also, I did something reckless, but awesome. Since I basically was in a "Dammit, can't get Roy past Rutger's area of death before he shows up" position, I had to have someone pull Rutger away from Marcus. That someone was Bors, who had hit lvl 4, thus had 12 Def and 23 HP (90% growth, I'm saying it's fair). I figured "Whatev, Rutger's gonna do 3x2 damage. Even if he crits once, I'm good to live.". I misread Killer Edge's wt for mt, so instead of having 16, he had 18. Oh fuck. 5x2 is a lot scarier. Luckily he didn't crit, but then the 2 fighter stooges of his and his archer came in to attack...

...Bors lived with 2 HP. That was the most metal thing I've ever seen. Granted, normally you should never end up in this situation in the first place, so this should not be taken seriously at all...But it was awesome.

Overall, the extra 2 turns nabbed me 2 pirate kills, 1 for Lance and the other for Allen. So, if you want serious results after these levels, just take about 27 exp off them both. Also, Bors with about 30-40 exp less from the chip he did on that whole group.

So yeah. Might restart this chapter, but I hate Erik and everything about this map that much.

Levels

Name Lvl Exp HP Str Skl Spd Lck Def Res
Roy    1  77 Base
Marcus 3   2 33   9  14  12  10  11   8
Allen  5  25 24   8   6   9   4   7   1
Lance  4  39 22   6   7  10   4   6   1
Bors   4  55 23   7   4   5   5  12   0
Wolt   3  26 20   4   6   6   2   5   0
Ellen  4   3 17   3   6   9   8   0   7
Ward   3  90 29   9   3   6   4   3   0
Lot    4  48 30   7   6   8   2   5   1
Deick  7  44 28  11  13  11   6   7   2
Thany  2  43 17   5   6  13   6   6   6
Lou    1  61 Base
Rutger 5  48 26  10  15  16   5   6   2

Marcus getting a point in speed is a pretty good thing, since it lets him ORKO some cavs with Silver. however, I was really lucky getting it in one single level. To do this with more accuracy on an average playthrough, I had Marcus use an Iron Lance instead, basically getting the same results when enemies didn't have 9 Spd. Granted, the game seemed to want to do that for me anyways, by making everyone whiff.

I appear to have a blessed Deick. He's basically got Marcus combat...Well, if Marcus were a 5 move unit locked to swords, but you get the picture.

Rutger got the boss kill, and hallelujah he got Str. Marcus is like a lovetap away from C rank swords, but I think it speaks for itself that Rutger's still the better boss killer due to having a LOT more speed with basically the same Str. Granted, Marcus has an easier time getting to the boss due to more move and durability, but you again probably get the picture.

Edited August 2, 2011 by Grandkitty

[Mekkah]

I think I said this before but putting in random cuss words does not make you look cool. In fact, it makes the whole thing annoying to read.

really fucking unusual

I basically have to hope Marcus lands a shitton of crits

because he locks down a shitton of space with how insanely deadly he is

3. Eric is really gay.

Even Rutger has like...50s hit on him. That's fucking stupid

Even if I restart, with my luck I'll just miss a shitton anyways

4. The army you have to bust down is also incredibly retarded. Laus grew some balls since FE7

and then you have to have your blind-as-a-fucking-bat army deal with them

and even then most of your army can barely scratch these assholes

(though he's probably gonna get one anyways, thank you Rutger, you asshole)

This leaves Thany able to contribute...Which isn't much, because her damage is ass against just about everything not Archers

"Shit that finishes things off that no one else can at the time, and they only do so if I cross my fingers and pray to Anubis to reap the souls of my enemies". Not having the Halberd is balls. It doesn't save turns, but I imagine it potentially could make life easier at times. Half the time, something fucking dies.

It's one thing to do it occasionally, it's another to throw one in every other sentence. I love free speech as much as the next guy but lol...

And yes, I plan to make fun of you for Armor/Archer hype as long as you keep putting them in the spotlight for doing things that only barely matter and only happen because you have a lack of other options at this point.

[grandjackal]

Whining and nitpicking

You know, you could just say "You're cussing a bit much" and I'll cool it. Bit reflexive for me since we know I have an unhealthy tendency to cuss like a sailor, but you overly-crying about it just makes me wanna do it more just to make you have more hissy fits on account of it being hilarious.

And yes, I plan to make fun of you for Armor/Archer hype as long as you keep putting them in the spotlight for doing things that only barely matter and only happen because you have a lack of other options at this point.

Have I not acknowledged that the stuff they do doesn't matter all that much? Cause I'm pretty sure I've said "Most of this stuff doesn't really matter and is merely just cool tidbits". Besides, what else would there really be to point out? "Oh, I had Allen and Lance do usual stuff, it's so awesome, and let me name the reasons why as if you didn't know why cav with a portrait is good". "I had Marcus own shit and all the ass, fuckthings and Rutger killed the boss. Repeat this for 8 chapters". "I did usual things, hooray". I doubt that makes a playlog any more interesting.

Just remember, I'm not putting a gun to your head and forcing you to read this. I'll be more cautious with my words from here on in, but honestly. Quit stalking me.

[Seven Deadly Sins]

Yeah, I'm with GJ here. It's not like anything comes out of "just another average cav party playthrough", and I didn't have any trouble with profanity in that post. If anything, it was remarkably restrained given how bullshit Chapter 4 is.

[grandjackal]

So, I attempted this map. Many...Many many times. Trying to figure out basically how to make this more reliable than how dondon hinted (he told me through a note that a 4 turn is risky as all get-out). As it turns out, it's simpler than it seems...

Chapter 5

Turns Taken: 4

So, there's basically no room for deviation here for a 4 turn, not that it really matters because only 4 people contribute anything to what is a very short, very quick chapter. However, I must first describe how I went about setting up things, because turn 1 is incredibly important. I had Rutger get rescued my Lance, moved forward, then rescue dropped by Marcus so that he was right against the gate. If you're dropped like this before the gate, you don't activate the event to open it. Only if you move someone directly against the gate, it opens (I had Chad do that, because I don't really care who does it). This is important, A. Because it pulls a bandit right next to the door, and B. The mage from the 9th circle of hell moves so he's a space away from the gate. This little bastard has caused me much grief, but this makes him crazy easy to kill. The bandit, on top of the mage moving, messes up how the reinforcements are positioned once the gate opens. First, kill the merc in front of the mage. You can do this with Rutger or Marcus+Lou, or 2 Javelins+Iron Lance. Then kill mage. Marcus with 12 Spd can at times ORKO this punk, but the rest of the time you'll need Wolt or someone with a 1-2 ranged weapon. Now, behind him is a steel bow nomad. He tends ot have 7 AS due to the weight of the bow. Marcus can thus double him at base, ORKOing with an Iron Lance, though you will want Silver so he can ORKO the Steel Blade merc that comes up afterwards. 1 full turn, the more annoying threats of the area are eliminated, and the hand axers left (along with the iron sword merc, who is a wimp) are easily coaxed towards squishy sword users they can't hit, or generally anyone that they can do damage to. It's a nice thing they're rather split due to the group creating a rod of destruction in between them, they're easily distracted.

But wait, you ask. What about the entire group of evil people north of the castle? They could easily flood in to reinforce. Once again, stupid AI strikes again. Enter Thany and any random unit you wanna dump at a chokepoint (hint: it's Deick). You see, there's a nomad that sits right at the chokepoint with 2 other nomads soaring north. I have Thany fly Deick right on over, and drop Deick boldly before the nomad on turn 2. Due to ordering of attack, the 3 mercs come in and surround the nomad first trying to close in on me. This prevents them form attacking Deick and flooding past to destroy my group, including the nomads. The fighters and 2 nomads come in and basically cause a traffic jam. Generally, you could have anyone dumped here, long as they can deal with a hand axe or two. Thus why Deick's the best, not only can he take the heat, it can't hit him in the first place.

Thankfully, due to positioning on how I had to deal with enemies on turn 3, I make Dory switch to his hand axe. I say this, because on a few of my earlier attempts, taht killer axe has cheated me out of many a run when it absolutely shouldn't have. Idid 2 runthroughs in a row and I was at the final stretch....Then Dory countercrits Rutger. He did this twice in a row. Twice. About 33 acc displayed with 32 crit. I pulled my hair out to that. But, I solved that issue easy-peasy. Having the right path of the castle clear actually leaves me with a bit of maneuverability, along with plenty of path for Deick to distract even more enemies.

I had Merlinus get in the way to intercept a hand axe from a bandit that was blocking Deick's path. Reasoning for it: In case Rutger failed to crit, this would open the path to allow Deick to come in and take a shot at it. Then, he could be rescued, and Marcus could take a shot (he can get C rank before Dory). It wasn't necessary in this run, but as a just in case, you'll want someone to intercept that bandit. Again, it can be anyone, but I figured why the hell not. Merlinus would be the absolute first target.

Everyone else was basically "Help me rescue chain Rutger over", or were ranged chippers. Exception being Lot and Ward, who do absolutely nothing on this map. Their position is so horrible. Even if you go north, they're not in a good position, because there is 0 reason you should let these fools be the front line guys to intercept ffor the enemy phase. They can't hit the broad side of a barn, the enemies here easily 2RKO them (Ward can be doubled and ORKOd by hand axe fighters. That's a super level of fail), and have to deal with a mercenary. Anything with any amount of speed and a sword is an unwinnable fight for these twits.

At the final turn, I basically had people do what they could to gain exp, since I had a lot of free units to do things at the time. I didn't manage any kills, unfortunately. Ward, of course, missed the hit that would have leveled him up. Way to go, Ward.

So to sum up, you were 1 of three groups. You were either part of the Marcus/Deick/Rutger/Thany doing all the work group, the Rescue Chains and Chipping Range group, or you were Lumberjacks.

Gant Lance received.

Levels

Name Lvl Exp HP Str Skl Spd Lck Def Res
Roy    1  91 18   5   5   7   7   5   0
Marcus 3  18 33   9  14  12  10  11   8 C Swords Achieved
Allen  5  35 24   8   6   9   4   7   1
Lance  4  53 22   6   7  10   4   6   1
Bors   4  56 23   7   4   5   5  12   0
Walt   3  37 20   4   6   6   2   5   0
Ward   3  91 29   9   3   6   4   3   0
Lot    4  48 30   7   6   8   2   5   1
Deick  7  84 28  11  13  11   6   7   2
Rutger 6  89 27  10  15  17   5   6   2

I decided not to post levels of people I might not end up using anyways for chapter 6 and such and so forth.

Roy when he was going through the path got caught up on 3 bandits, and one of them was down to single digit HP of which Roy was able to snipe. That exp gain was incidental.

Normally, Lou would have gained a level by killing the merc Marcus hit with a Silver Lance, but Marcus crit'd that guy, and I give 0 damns about Lou. So there you go.

As you can see, Rutger nearly gained 2 levels on this map. That is because Rutger is really really really good.

[grandjackal]

Chapter 6

Turns Taken: 5, though 4 is possible

This is probably the first map where Marcus could solo the damn thing. Yeah, first try and I didn't even break a sweat.

This chapter's simple. Just send Marcus up the center with a Hand Axe....And there you have the map people. He was able to ORKO the mages there (he could have done it with a javelin though, but I preferred the WTA and I had the speed), and severely weaken everything else, of which I used to my advantage with the walls to nab kills I otherwise would have missed. In fact, I may restart the chapter just because I might be able to better distribute exp.

I had the cav duo go take the right flank, to help Chad get the Silver Lance and 2K gold. Thany helped Roy get to Sue (Maximized movement, Roy can get to Sue exactly the time Thany uses the Door Key, then Sue can rescue chain her over through Marcus, so 4 turns is possible. With Rescue-drops, Chad can still get the Silver Lance and 2K). I had Thany accompanied by Bors, because I'm indeed being a derp and using him seriously...That, and all you really have to deal with is a lone merc. Srsly, who cares? That's all anyone not a mounted unit/Deick and Rutger are doing. Helping kill a lone merc in an empty hallway. Woopdie doo.

Seriously, this is supposed to be a trap? dondon did it in 7 turns, which I'm supposing was to talk to Cath, for whatever reason. Seems kinda silly to waste 2-3 turns just to talk to her. Hell, normally she might not even show up if you 4 turn it. So yeah, I would claim this as a 4 turn, but I wouldn't blame you for 5 due to acc on the boss. Awesome as Rutger is, sometimes 50s displayed can screw you up.

Levels

Name Lvl Exp HP Str Skl Spd Lck Def Res
Roy    2   2 19   5   5   7   8   5   1
Marcus 3  70 33   9  14  12  10  11   8
Allen  6  24 32   8   6  10   4   7   1 C Lance
Lance  5  55 23   6   7  11   5   6   1 C Allen
Bors   5   7 24   7   5   5   6  12   0
Deick  9   9 29  12  13  11   6   7   3
Thany  2  95 17   5   6  13   6   6   6
Rutger 8  39 29  10  16  18   5   7   2

Yaaaay, Roy's first level! And it blows!

Well, as we can see, Lance's level suddenly spiked back up. I feel better now. My Allen appears to be blessed +1 Spd, but screwed -1 Str. As for his sudden spike of HP, I didn't know who else to give the robe to. Lance is also +1 Spd.

Deick and Rutger are basically turning on boss mode. My Deick is...Surprisingly average. Blessed +1.4 Str, but I'm not complaining. My Rutger also shouldn't have been doubling Wagner, but whatev. Crit's a crit.

Dorothy ate too much exp here, as she's at 95 exp (Accidentally put her against the wall with soldiers charging for her). That irks me. Might restart the chapter just because of that.

First support! Yaaaaay!

EDIT: Nevermind, I actually can't do much better distribution than this. People are a bit too far out to get the kills Dorothy got in time.

Edited August 3, 2011 by Grandkitty

[dondon151]

Seriously, this is supposed to be a trap? dondon did it in 7 turns, which I'm supposing was to talk to Cath, for whatever reason. Seems kinda silly to waste 2-3 turns just to talk to her. Hell, normally she might not even show up if you 4 turn it.

You know, I very clearly state in my playthrough threads that full recruitment and survival is an objective. I don't know why so many people don't read it. It's not like it's a new concept; I've done -5- of these runs already, 4 of which were under this criterion.

And yes, 7 turns is the minimum with Roy talking to Cass. Roy can't talk to Cass until turn 6 player phase at the earliest, which puts the earliest seize turn at 7. Talking to Cass in her other maps after chapter 12 even more significantly delays completion.

[grandjackal]

You know, I very clearly state in my playthrough threads that full recruitment and survival is an objective. I don't know why so many people don't read it. It's not like it's a new concept; I've done -5- of these runs already, 4 of which were under this criterion.

Sorry, I just didn't happen to actually read your log for FE6 is all.

And yes, 7 turns is the minimum with Roy talking to Cass. Roy can't talk to Cass until turn 6 player phase at the earliest, which puts the earliest seize turn at 7. Talking to Cass in her other maps after chapter 12 even more significantly delays completion.

Well just letting ya know, I'm not gonna bother to actually recruit her, as it's more trouble than it's worth. Might actually kill her in chapter 8.

[Dark Sage]

Well just letting ya know, I'm not gonna bother to actually recruit her, as it's more trouble than it's worth. Might actually kill her in chapter 8.

Monster.

[Lord Raven]

Sorry, I just didn't happen to actually read your log for FE6 is all.

Then why make fun of it?

[grandjackal]

Then why make fun of it?

...In what way was I making fun of it?

[Lord Raven]

The way you said it gave me the impression that you were, sorry.

[grandjackal]

So I get to what is essentially the home stretch of chapter 7, and on that left wyvern coming in I had to kill it...I missed every attack, basically ending my run right then and there. I'm very salty about this, so I'm taking a break.

As a note, I play the cart and not the emulator, thus why I don't "rewind and fix the problem". REALLY want that accuracy patch...Like, right now.

[Salad Utensil]

So I get to what is essentially the home stretch of chapter 7, and on that left wyvern coming in I had to kill it...I missed every attack, basically ending my run right then and there. I'm very salty about this, so I'm taking a break.

As a note, I play the cart and not the emulator, thus why I don't "rewind and fix the problem". REALLY want that accuracy patch...Like, right now.

Not that my opinion matters much here, but I'm actually glad this run isn't using an emulator since it would deter strategies that are unreliable. Even ~40-70% chances for difficult boss kills which some may consider to be reliable on long chapters may deter resetting for success. Considering it is a player is playing the game, that gives some level of accountability to current expectations and I think deters the mindset of what currently is considered reliable in terms of turn counts.

Though resetting until a strategy works/character not dying/killing a boss in order to create an earlier seize, is really no different from using save states even if accepting/upholding an arbitrary threshold to determine abuse vs. viability since the player is basically just hitting himself with a brick for at that point for no benefit (except if the player is a masochist, than it's hitting someone else with a brick (?)).

[GreatEclipse]

Doing an efficiency run right now using the fixed growths patch, which has the added benefit of resetting the RNG every time you load a save-state, and I just completed chapter 7 in 12 turns after working on it for what feels like a few hours. I have no idea how anyone could play this game on HM on a cart without going mad. Demon's Souls was a more forgiving game than this.

[grandjackal]

Doing an efficiency run right now using the fixed growths patch, which has the added benefit of resetting the RNG every time you load a save-state, and I just completed chapter 7 in 12 turns after working on it for what feels like a few hours. I have no idea how anyone could play this game on HM on a cart without going mad. Demon's Souls was a more forgiving game than this.

I know what ya mean, and I gotta do this in 8. Hell, i realized it could be possible in 7 and I want to stab myself in the face.

I'm going back to FE12 of all things for how salty this is making me. ffs.

[GreatEclipse]

Accuracy would not be such a big issue if the enemy's did not have such absurd HP/DEF. It remember it taking Sue, Lance, Noah, Treck and Lott to kill a single 31 HP Cavalier on the dot using Iron weapons, and they all had around 70 displayed hit.

An unrelated question for DD151:

At what level would you recommend promoting units on a near-max efficiency run, particularity Noah, Tate, Miledy and Zeiss? I don't plan on using Lance or Allen much longer, both being a few levels below him and not even halfway to a D in Swords.

Edited August 5, 2011 by GreatEclipse

[Dark Sage]

This is why you have Lot or Marcus use the Halberd.

Oh wait. Grandjackal didn't get it.

Hah hah.

Edited August 5, 2011 by Sagekitty

[grandjackal]

This is why you have Lot or Marcus use the Halberd.

Oh wait. Grandjackal didn't get it.

Hah hah.

I think the issue with Marcus using the Halberd (as awesome as that would be) is getting hte rank in time with such tight turncounts. Even then, the Halberd doesn't save any turns either (as I can tell from my first semi-successful dry run of chapter 7), so since I'mbasically going by dondon rules, getting it has 0 point. Even if we did get it, all it means is that exp can be more easily focused (at a coinflip though) onto one of the fighters. I'll live.

So, I just did a run of chapter 7, and I can safely assume that one can do this in 8 turns as dondon has, and get all the treasures this map has to offer along with selling the red gem (I recall him saying he couldn't get the other treasure aside from the Red Gem. It's just another Rapier though, so whatev because I still have like 20 uses left on the first). However, I say this was only semi-successful...Because I forgot to click an attack, and it cost Roy's life (he couldn't dodge two coinflips afterwards), and Lance/Sue couldn't do the last 5 damage necessary to kill a cav. At that point, all that was really left was the 2 wyverns and what WOULD have been the last cav. I believe it would have been turn 5 had I just...not slipped up there (I misclicked because I was trading Marcus the new silver lance for intercepting a wyvern on enemy phase, and I just derped).

Basically the key to this map is don't think you have to rush, and rescue drop everything to the front immediately as to choke things at the arena. Well, aside from Lou. I had him help Marcus paint the town red on the right side of the map to get the treasures and basically clear out the path for Noah/Treck to grab the rest along with being in place to trade-chain keys over to nab the Barrier staff. I wasn't in much danger, since A. Zealot can be recruited when battle starts to get hectic, and B. Due to him and Lou making the path easier to navigate through town, Marcus could come in and reinforce whenever he wanted. Once he gets the steel archer weakened really, he can go back into the fray real quick.

Sue went to get the keys (I had Zealot and Marcus for the wyverns along with Rutger, Deick and a bunch of cavs so it was all good) so that I could go trade them over along with unlocking the gate. Basically the only thing I couldn't get to was the part with Devias on account of a misclick. I'm pretty pissed off about it too, I would have been able to move on from this damn chapter.

Deick and Rutger are essential here since there is an unhealthy amount of armors, so two armorslayer users can be of great benefit. Also, Rutger killing edge on cavaliers can make life significantly easier. The first edge is most likely almost gone by now (unless you got lucky with crits beforehand), but you can get the edge from one of the villages to him pretty easily thanks to Thany. Him being the only guy to have the potential to kill mercs is also a very welcome aspect. You are also bringing all mounts in order to rescue drop.

I also want to expound on how much I hate the Steel Bow, and how it's a 50/50 on you winning big or your archer/Sue dying horribly if they have a javelin equipped. It makes me wish I had two iron bows for 2 archers, because the steel bow is a heavy piece of garbage that puts up a "KILL ME" sign to any javelin user because your archers are about as durable as wet paper.

Pretty much anyone else can fill whatever unit slots are left, since they won't really matter. For most of you that means Lot, but for me due to the fact on still on FE6 probation, it was Bors. Things were keen on targetting him instead of people that would have hated to be attacked for some reason, even though I dropped him onto a forest near the arena. Not sure what was up with the enemy AI there. He didn't really do anything aside from sit there.

[grandjackal]

OK, so new strat. Turn 1, Marcus Armorslays the armor blocking the way to Zealot, and the cavs rescue Roy and drop him a spot under Marcus, Lou hangs around the trees to distract the left armor and then taking care of the armor in town in the lower right corner so I can get the Hero Crest). I recruit Zealot and Treck turn 2, then it's a full on brawl in the center of the map. I'm noticing some triggers on this map, and they're triggers in a way that make me want this game to have enemy area checkers like they do in FE11 and 12. First trigger is once you pass the road between the 2nd and 3d row of houses on the right side of the map. Cross it, and you trigger some of the north enemies along with the right-most wyvern. That one's pretty obvious. It's the left-most wyvern that I couldn't pin down. He just seemed to go off whenever he pleased. It wasn't till my latest playthrough that I realized the trigger was (or at least is my closest guess) some of the northmost units such as the merc or the javelin cavs near the north wall. I figured those cavs moved on their own, but they don't. They're part of the same trigger (along with some random armor). trying to bust through even with the 2 turn recruitment of Zealot only met with defeat after defeat simply because I had to deal with such overwhelming numbers all too quick, and even then the action was only done by turn 6, leaving me two turns to get to the gate, unlock it, then 1 turn player phase kill the boss (hint, not happening without a rigged crit, and you at best will have around 50s to 60s hit on him. Also, 4 crit, have fun rigging it) as to not trigger the reinforcements. It's so unreliable it's mindboggling.

Chatting it up with dondon, he said that after he got Zealot and Treck, he backed off a bit, which makes me question the 8 turn even more, unless he just ran Roy in a circle around the arena. The idea itself worked a lot better, as I could actually breathe without facing stupid high chances of death. Action still all ended by turn 6, only issue was that I was a bit further back now than I was. Then I got to the boss, and it was like "Oh right, you're stupid durable, and for some reason I can't actually hit you". It worked a bit better, but then I derped at the boss.

Thinking of recruiting Zealot and Treck turn 2, then immediately having everyone just go left, since it's still backing away, but still getting me closer to the gate. My only real issue now is the boss, since nothing short of a rigged crit of which in a growth run on a cart is nigh impossible to rig is going to keep me from avoiding the throne reinforcements. Can't say I'm looking forward to fighting 2 more mages.

Yeah, 3 days with no update just because of this one chapter. Most of that time was spent watching every attack miss. If any chapter kills enthusiasm for a playthrough, it's FE6's chapter 7. Ffs, I'm playing FE12 to take a break form FE6 because at least in FE12, the difficulty isn't garnered by the masterful design of "make weapon acc awful".

[grandjackal]

So, I have finally found a great strategy for this chapter. I still have to perfect it (Deick died at the final stretch, but that was more just a flub on "woops, fail placement" than anything), I can do a write-up because I can easily repeat it without much hassle.

Chapter 7

All the problems I had beforehand were that my strats were generally unsafe, and I didn't have a solid clue about the triggers. These are good things to know, because you don't want 2 wyverns smacking you upside the face at once. I'mma actually give a turn by turn on how to deal with this.

Turn 1

Have Lou position himself so that he's on a forest tile while being the furthest away from the left armor, but just in target range. Make sure it's one of the north forest tiles rather than the one near the southwest house. Marcus charges up to hand axe the armor mirror opposite of the first. This is probably the first deviation I had form dondon's, as he Armorslayed it. I do this instead as it'll come into play later. rescue-drop Roy so that he's 1 move away from recruiting Zealot. Another important factor in this chapter (though it's a no-brainer to recruit Zealot immediately). Thany goes to get the Killer Edge, and cantos back 1 space. Clarine rescues Bors, Sue comes in and takes the killer edge, and rescue-drops Bors 1 space north of her. Everyone else tailgates.

Enemy phase, the armor will close in to attack Roy. Not that big a deal. Roy leaves him at about 6 HP. Soldier comes in to attack Marcus, leaving him at enough HP that after a physic heal leaves him at 20 (just enough for Lance to kill). Armor throws a javelin at Allen and takes 4 damage in return. Merc closes in behind the armor Roy sticked, and 2 cavalier come towards the houses, one of them rudely blocking the way to Zealot. Armor attacks Lou and misses, eating 18 damage in return (28 HP...rrrrr). The wyvern on the right will be triggered.

Turn 2: This is an annoying point, but it's tame in comparison to some. Lou comes in and finishes Roy's armor, Bors moves forward and with Gant's Lancehits the merc for 10 damage. Sue comes up and chips said merc for 4 damage, which is just enough for Deick to come up, grab the killer edge off Sue, and finish him off. Rutger can critkill the cavalier blocking Zealot, but if he fails, you still got Marcus able to come in and finish the job. Roy recruits Zealot, Zealot equips javelin and recruits Treck, and to my next deviation he heads to the right into the fray of 2 archers and an armor. I do this deliberately, since Zealot moving out to the let wouldn't serve much purpose. Going to the right, I pull some enemies that way, and I deal with some enemies in the village for collecting treasures later. In case some miss the merc (the more annoying of the enemies), we still got 2 cavaliers to stab iron spears and javelins into him. If you miss, well...It's only turn 2. Not that big a deal.It's better than having gigantic risks of death later. Treck rescues Roy and goes as far south as he can, Clarine rescue-drops Roy so that he'll be in range to recruit Noah (Why can't Treck recruit Noah?...). If the merc died without the need of a cav, have one of them finish off the soldier Marcus was dealing with. If both the soldier are dead and the merc needed less than both the cavs to deal with, AND Rutger critkilled the cavalier, have Marcus sit in front of Rutger. Heal what you can.

Enemy phase, the wyvern will most likely go down south to try to nab someone vulnerable, but it only brings him close to my archers and Lou, along with being in any killer edge user's range. Enemies attack Zealot, enemies go after Rutger or Marcus (some only in range of Marcus, who promptly shows them how to use a hand axe). Merc attacks Deick (and can promptly get critkilled. If not, no big deal). Some healers Physic things and get too close.

Turn 3: You don't want to trigger any more cavs or the left wyvern before this turn, reason being that the numbers alone simply overwhelm you. You should now only have like an archer, an armor, a mage (who Marcus may have killed with a hand axe), and 2 cavaliers to deal with now. Deick can double the ones that wield javelins with a killer edge, and Rutger doesn't care. I kill the merc with thorough chipping, and I get Marcus in place to trigger the last group of enemies, readying his hand axe. I basically clear out what I can, and trap/wall out whatever I can't manage to kill. Lance manages to kill a healer, thank the heavens. Zealot still smacking around enemies with a javelin. If he doesn't miss, he could have both archers dead by the end o this turn. That helps greatly with treasure fetching that happens in a sec. Thany by now has gotten the southwest house (I'm having her get those treasures then go nab some keys from the shop). Lou I'd imagine would want to go for the southern armor that Allen was working on turn 1 (this helps to get the Hero Crest), but I had to have him attack the wyvern (stupid acc). Have yet to face a "I might die if I don't dodge this" moment. I had an issue with Thany being in range to get the Long Bow due to the archer, which can kinda screwed up the timing to getting the keys.

Enemy phase is pretty simple, last things get triggered and I have table scraps to deal with now. Roy gets attacked by an archer, but now there's just like 1 armor, a cav and an archer left along with a healer and 2 wyverns.

Turn 4: Clean up whatever's left and basically have Marcus go berserk on the last two wyverns with his silver lance (make sure he's in range of your other units, but still close to the gate. Now my initial run, I sort of did the scardy cat thing and went through them 1 at a time. If you are duke nukem, you would do this while Zealot charged past the hole in the north wall with a javelin equipped to deal with the elfire mage. That's a bit risky though, unless you had Zealot dodge quite a bit (or got a vulnery on him somehow).

Enemy phase, Elfire mage suicides into Zealot along with the archers if they aren't dead by now. 2 wyverns face the wrath of Silver Marcus. Archer pretends he's being productive.

Turn 5: This is where "random misses made me have to alter a bit much" sort of came into play, as normally I'd have Lou and Lance work through the last armor so they can complete their collecting on the townspeople's taxes. If not for the archer, I could probably have the gate unlocked at this turn, but that kinda went not as planned. I have Zealot charge through the hole in the gate now, and my minions clean up the wyverns easy. Head towards the gate, Bors traps the archer at the arena (yeah, Bors hasn't done much), Lou deal with the townspeople. Keys can be traded from Thany to Treck and Noah, getting them towards the treasure room for the Barrier Staff.

Enemy phase is basically just triggering reinforcements.

Turn 6: Get group in range...Marcus and Zealot in the thick of it really. Only issue with Zealot is that a thunder crit off a mage ends my run, but whatever. Need the exposure I can get.

Enemy phase is basically Marcus and Zealot being Marcus and Zealot. Lance and Lou tangle with the remnants of the village.

Turn 7: Mop up reinforcements, collect treasures, yada yada.

Now at turn 8 we got Devias. Devias is a punk, because he's 3HKOd by the Armorslayer on Marcus. 61 hit displayed on him too (I also have a bit more Skl and Lck than I used to, so that's a lucky number I have). dondon had to rig a crit and normally said he had to do this to avoid the reinforcements. That's all well and good, but you can nab all that exp and still kill Devias by turn 8 (I dunno about Roy being in range for the throne capture without being in danger...Then again, rigging a crit with 4 crit displayed and 59 hit doesn't sound any more reliable in a normal playthrough), and Zealot's nearby to take the Armorslayer off a trade to attempt killing Devias without needing to rig a crit. However, it's still risky due to coinflip acc, and the fact that Devias has crit on anyone not named Marcus. Noah nabs the Barrier staff, Thany gets the Physic in time after selling the Red Gem (Treck nabbed it when he wasn't doing anything in particular, they traded for the keys) and nabbing the Elixer, Lou gets the Horseslayer and Lance gets the Hero Crest. Treck visits the armories after trading the keys to get a few more axe type weapons along with Steel Swords for the isles.

Now the above is the IDEALS of an 8 turn, but chances are "accuracy will happen", and you will have to alter drastically to keep the plan stable. However, just taking these as a guideline is a strat that leads to facing the least situations of "dodge to survive". Even the boss alone is a punk who can dodge the Armorslayer and generally mess up your turncount on his own (as you need 3 hits landed to finish him). I wouldn't blame you for a 9, or even a 10 turn here. This chapter is incredibly annoying, and even though I have to redo it because I screwed up at the end, I have a good idea on how to do it safely at least while still having a relatively excellent pace.

Also, if I had gotten Deick to finish off Devias, he would just barely hit lvl 10, so he can put to use an early promotion if he so wanted to. While I have to redo it, here are the levels I had on my initial, and so far only complete dry runthrough of chapter 7.

Name Lvl Exp HP Str Skl Spd Lck Def Res
Roy    3  76 20   5   6   7   8   5   1
Marcus 4  76 34   9  14  13  10  11   9
Allen  7  15 33   8   6  10   4   8   1
Lance  6  38 24   6   8  12   6   6   1
Bors   6   3 24   7   5   5   7  13   0
Clar   2  70 15   3   5   9   8   2   5
Rutger 9  57 30  10  17  18   5   7   2
Sue    2  39 18   5   7   9   4   5   0
Lou    5  54 18   5   6   9   5   3   8

Roy I got kills because dondon suggested I get some meat on his bones, since a lot of turncounts later required Roy to stay alive, of which he had to RNG rig a lot. I did so. Roy is not amused, and so he decided he should just have bad level ups. Thanks, red-headed ungrateful prick.

Marcus did a lot.

Lou went form 1 to 5. Not that he did a slew of a lot, just his low level combined with high enemy level was getting him ridiculous exp. I lol'd when I saw him kill an archer and get wtf 60 exp.

Oh chapter 8, how happy I am to see you!

Edited August 10, 2011 by Grandkitty

[grandjackal]

Know what? Screw it, I'm letting Deick be dead. Dorothy's out of there too, but I don't really care because I only wanted her for chapter 7. Even then I found her pretty useless. Should have used Lot instead.

Chapter 8

Turns Taken: 16

Ahh, a ridiculously easy chapter that is also really long. You are never in danger here. Give exp to whoever you want.

This is a cavalier playground really. Marcuz and Zealot charge about and whittle things down with axes and everyone else just feeds off it. Enemies hereare such a non-threat it's not even that bgi a deal. Cavs alone can mess with them easy. Sue's chip here is significant on account of the level being filled with loldiers. This map really is jst a matter of "Who do I want exp on". It's a big chapter, but there's honestly nothing really to write about. Just bring people you wanna buff up with exp and you're good. Just mae sure every horse in your army is available (well, I excluded Thany. Flight wasn't necessary here) so you can rescue-drop those that have to use their feet.

Once you pass the hall between the treasure rooms...You won. That's the "hard" part of the map. After that, the map is empty. That's half the map being uselessly barren. By the time you get to the staircases, the thieves pop out and run right into Rutger and Zealot. Cath is not going to see chapter 11.

A turn was lost on account of a whiff on Leygeance. I had a beefy-ass Rutger though, because Leygeance AND his armor knight companion with their steel lances could not kill Rutger. Man, no wonder you're top tier.

Couldn't get the last 4 treasures in the short time I had.

Levels

Name Lvl EXP HP Str Skl Spd Lck Def Res
Roy    3  77 20   5   6   7   8   5   1
Marcus 5  22 34   9  14  13  10  11  10
Zealot 2  28 35  10  12  14   5  11   7
Allen  8  36 34   8   6  10   4   9   1
Lance  8   3 26   7   8  13   6   6   1
Bors   6  99 24   7   5   5   7  13   0
Clar   3  76 16   3   5  10   8   2   6
Rutgr 12  60 33  12  19  20   5   8   3
Saul   6  46 20   4   7  10   2   2   5
Sue    4  34 20   5   8  11   4   5   0
Treck  4  96 Base
Noah   7  88 Base
Wendy  2   6 20   5   4   3   6   8   2
Barth  9  10 Base

This is a map where Roy was too busy being in someone's saddlebags. Oh well, maybe I can get plentiful levels in chapter 9.

Marcus by now could have actually gained some stats with those 4 levels. +2 HP, 1 Str, 1 Spd, and about 1 Skl and Lck as well. I have a pretty blessed Marcus (+1 Spd and +2 Def, though -1 Str), but he's still closer comparable to Zealot. Zealot got +1 Spd though, which is always nice.

Allen and Lance are at a point where they're done being meh. I still like Allen better though.

I'm thinking of promoting Rutgerearly. While he's still able to double Henning at this stage (no matter what weapon he's using), the extra Acc, Crit and Str would be nice, along with not having to cap ram Spd. Might just squelch what exp I can and attempt a last level, then promote in Henning's face.

I'm kinda curious about the Ilia cavs though... basically blew all the exp into Allen and Lance which is obviously awesome, but I have to wonder what level I could have gotten Treck to, and I feel kinda weird not getting Noah to lvl 10 for an early promo. Ahh well, no big loss there I suppose. This is a growth run, I won't really be dependent on a third paladin this early. No one gives a damn about Treck either, so whatev.

*Rubs temples* Should have given those kills to Bros instead of Wendy...While Bors hasn't really cost me any turns yet (he hasn't done anything save get 5K fro chapter 1 and grabbed Lou in chapter 3, but he hasn't cost turns), I think it's around this point where you just have no room for anything less. Bors can realistically get to lvl 7 before the isles, but who cares? I have like...4 cavs, 2 paladins, 1 troubadour, a nomad, a pegasi, Saul and Rutger. 11 slots already right there. If you haven't dropped Bors yet (thoughI'm sure most of you have by now in favor of Lot), you should be now.

However, I'm still on probation, and I got 2 other dead weights lugged on, so...