Higgins Von Higgings Posted July 20, 2008 Share Posted July 20, 2008 Could a mod lock this topic? This is getting close to a fight. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gatrie: Guns Blazing Posted July 20, 2008 Share Posted July 20, 2008 really...how long has this topic been discussed?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shadrach Posted July 20, 2008 Share Posted July 20, 2008 (edited) Could a mod lock this topic? This is getting close to a fight. What? Everyone in here has been posting intelligently and calmly. More so than with regular topics because this is controversial and no one wants to see people get hurt here. I don't think this will get out of hand. EDIT: Well, not really an edit, more of a P.S. @Higgins: Christian teachings say that Christ died to save those that choose to follow him. How is that not free-will? And anyway, as for your question about why God doesn't allow everyone in heaven: We are told that no one can enter heaven and be in God's glory unless they are pure. We remind ourselves everyday that we are not perfect, or pure, or anywhere close. The Bible says that when Christ was crucified he took on the sin of the world. In other words, he paid the price for our mistakes. I find it odd that I'm arguing Christianity's case. Edited July 20, 2008 by shadrach Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gatrie: Guns Blazing Posted July 20, 2008 Share Posted July 20, 2008 What? Everyone in here has been posting intelligently and calmly. More so than with regular topics because this is controversial and no one wants to see people get hurt here. I don't think this will get out of hand. shad...it got outta hand the 2nd week into discussion Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Inactive Account Posted July 20, 2008 Share Posted July 20, 2008 Actually I thought we were doing okay here. Just because it's controversial doesn't mean it's out of hand. We're not flaming at all- maybe debating, but in a civilised manner. We're discussing important issues in the world. I for one am just trying to help others see my point. I do see where you're coming from Higgins, now I'm just trying to illustrate that Christianity (moreover, the existence of God in general) is compatible with free will and science. Regarding the scientific truth of Bible stories- I already stated that many are not to be taken literally. In fact the Bible itself contains many footnotes that explain how a story is meant to illustrate a point, not to give a history. I agree that many of the stories are not possible as they are told. I think I said that. I think maybe I worded it a little confusingly. The main point here is that though some stories in the Bible are scientifically impossible, this cannot be used as evidence to the nonexistence of God. Regarding the concern about gay people, it is stated over and over in every branch of Christianity that God loves all people. He forbids certain actions, not certain types of people. Some people or groups confuse this. Essentially what I'm trying to say here is that just because a large number of people SAY God thinks this or hates that doesn't dictate what God actually does think. I've said before and I'll say again that people can't really understand God, and people who claim to know everything He thinks are fooling themselves. We can only know (and not even necessarily understand) what He teaches. In this case, the teachings are that God loves us all, so I don't think I'll continue this subject. Regarding free will- all of the people who God gave tasks to in Scripture did the tasks of their own free will. As for the "follow me or go to hell thing" as you bluntly put it, it's a choice. And once again there are multiple ways to follow God. I think the main problem that Christianity has right now is intolerance. Many churches condemn other churches (some even deny that the others, especially Catholicism, are part of Christianity) and are not tolerant towards certain other groups. The teachings vary between churches. No wonder people have a hard time believing in God when the people who do never agree with each other. This is an interesting topic; so long as it remains tolerant let's keep it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mufasa Posted July 20, 2008 Share Posted July 20, 2008 I don't think this topic was/is bad. Besides all debates have these sort of disputs. All we really need to do is remeber this is a conversation and not get pissed at each other. To each his own. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Inactive Account Posted July 20, 2008 Share Posted July 20, 2008 Yep, so long as nobody gets particularly angry or insulted this should be fine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Higgins Von Higgings Posted July 20, 2008 Share Posted July 20, 2008 Yeah, but they don't all go around sacrificing small woodland creatures and worshipping Satan.I mean, I think Satan might be an okay guy if you talked to him man to man, but the cultists are worshiping him for the wrong reasons. Things like this piss me off. I've hated this topic since Lyle started Flaming Atheists. Or when he said I feel like people who don't believe in God are under the misconception that people who do believe have no free will of their own. Like they couldn't survive if there was proof that there was no God. Of course such proof will never come to fruition, but just because we believe in something doesn't mean we follow it blindly. Actually I guess It's just been Lyle being a jerk saying this or that about everything. Maybe you should stop posting dude. Regarding the scientific truth of Bible stories- I already stated that many are not to be taken literally. In fact the Bible itself contains many footnotes that explain how a story is meant to illustrate a point, not to give a history. I agree that many of the stories are not possible as they are told. I think I said that. I think maybe I worded it a little confusingly. The main point here is that though some stories in the Bible are scientifically impossible, this cannot be used as evidence to the nonexistence of God. Well it can for a bit. We have theories as to why our galaxy started. And I wouldn't say it's impossible that the universe has been around forever. I mean. If this "God" has been around for all of time, whats wrong with saying that the universe has been around for all of time? If someone had to create it, then someone woulda had to create the Creator. Also, scientifically proving things that the "God did it" Theories are wrong, kinda disproves a lot about god IMO. Regarding free will- all of the people who God gave tasks to in Scripture did the tasks of their own free will. And you don't think he Knew if he asked a certain person, that he would get a certain result? I find it odd that none refused him or thought they were going insane. As for the "follow me or go to hell thing" as you bluntly put it, it's a choice. And once again there are multiple ways to follow God. Yes, but you still follow him. And if you don't you go to hell. It's not really a choice most people make. Seriously who'd prefer Hell over "Paradise?" I think the main problem that Christianity has right now is intolerance. Many churches condemn other churches (some even deny that the others, especially Catholicism, are part of Christianity) and are not tolerant towards certain other groups. The teachings vary between churches. No wonder people have a hard time believing in God when the people who do never agree with each other. This is an interesting topic; so long as it remains tolerant let's keep it. Yah I find another problem there. Everyone seems to have different stories they believe are right. And that others are wrong. Kinda like how you and me are. I find it interesting that so many times, in so many of their stories that so many different people do things thanks to the power of their god(s). Why and how do so many people do amazing things? I believe it's Exaggerated Stories. Take the guy who parted the Ocean. It could have been "The boats (That could've been what they used) moved so fast, it seemed like the ocean parted" and then over time been retold and distorted tell it became "He parted the ocean!" Like the game of telephone that we played as children in school. You begin with a simple message and by the time it goes through everyone, it's something way different. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mufasa Posted July 20, 2008 Share Posted July 20, 2008 I'm sorry if you felt that way Higgins. I never really meant to flame atheists. I have a lot of pent up frustration against them because my roomate was a big atheist and if you didn't agree with him then you were wrong. So I'm sorry if I insulted/annoyed you. I personally don't really care what anyone believes. So long as you're happy, and you don't try to force others to believe in your way I'm fine in whatever you want to believe. I would like everyone to be happy in the end. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Inactive Account Posted July 20, 2008 Share Posted July 20, 2008 -applauds Lyle- Thanks man. My sentiments exactly. Actually I think this topic's grown kinda useless... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mufasa Posted July 20, 2008 Share Posted July 20, 2008 -applauds Lyle-Thanks man. My sentiments exactly. Actually I think this topic's grown kinda useless... True. Everyone who's wanted to make a point in it has already done so. The only person I think who would would be Gino Wienberg/Tashi/Logic Swordsman/Devdan But he's away till september. I say this is a case closed. Cept there was no real resolution..... Whatever. To each his own. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Inactive Account Posted July 20, 2008 Share Posted July 20, 2008 I doubt there ever will be a resolution. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mufasa Posted July 20, 2008 Share Posted July 20, 2008 I doubt there ever will be a resolution. Not until death. But that won't be for a while. At least I'm not planning on it happening for a while. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shadrach Posted July 21, 2008 Share Posted July 21, 2008 The thing about debating controversial issues on the internet is that people rarely change their sides. What I liked about this topic was that it seemed like no one was really trying to force their beliefs on others. It seemed more like people just presenting their cases calmly. Although it seemed like some people got a little upset or passionate when they posted, most people kept a level-head. This makes me happy, because now I don't think SF will erupt into real war anytime soon. On a side note, I don't think Lyle actually flamed all atheists. He just said he didn't like some of the arguments. Granted, he could have phrased some of it a little better so it didn't look that offensive on the surface. But really, none of it was that bad. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Higgins Von Higgings Posted July 21, 2008 Share Posted July 21, 2008 Mmmm It's not really that. If I might be blunt, he just seems to have a bad view on anyone who thinks a different way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gatrie: Guns Blazing Posted July 24, 2008 Share Posted July 24, 2008 The thing about debating controversial issues on the internet is that people rarely change their sides. What I liked about this topic was that it seemed like no one was really trying to force their beliefs on others. It seemed more like people just presenting their cases calmly. Although it seemed like some people got a little upset or passionate when they posted, most people kept a level-head. This makes me happy, because now I don't think SF will erupt into real war anytime soon. On a side note, I don't think Lyle actually flamed all atheists. He just said he didn't like some of the arguments. Granted, he could have phrased some of it a little better so it didn't look that offensive on the surface. But really, none of it was that bad. I agree but am I the only 1 that thinks we think too hard on religion? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swordmaster Posted July 27, 2008 Share Posted July 27, 2008 I choose to believe all and disbelieve in all. All it is is mere information and perception. Bluntly put, you could say I choose not to care. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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