FE8 draft tier list

[Anouleth]

Of what relevance is Myrrh's Aid?

By the way, four viable warpskippers (Moulder, Natasha, L'Arachel, Saleh? Artur could probably be made into one too), four players. To miss out on one would be poor luck, bad drafting, or both. I think it's fair to assume that most of the time you would have picked someone up for the sake of Warp.

I have serious doubts about L'arachel being viable. She lacks the C staves in order to make use of Barrier or Restore or even Hammerne, and is forced to fall back on Mend for WEXP. Not only is this much slower, it's a frontline duty, something that L'arachel can't always do because she is 6 move on a horse (the horse hampers her in Chapter 15, you're probably abusing flight in Chapter 12, and so on) and quite frail. I don't know myself, and I'm sure that other drafters know better about how viable she is, but on paper she isn't. Moreover, Warp isn't something that you might just want one of. More Warp users is usually better: it lets you use two at once, you can have one free for Hammerning or Barriering or Physicing or even just thwacking something with Purge. I certainly wouldn't refuse to pick Saleh just because I already have Moulder.

I would agree with the Shadowshot-distracting facet of Knoll's F performance, but I was pretty sure the dragons aren't that hard to just walk past. Maybe I'm remembering it wrong. At the very least, Warp exists.

Not for all players, and Warp only has 5 range. Certainly, being able to ignore a Dracozombie or a Gorgon is a boon.

http://www.fireemblemwod.net/fe8/guiafe8/finalfe8.htm

It looks pretty tough to avoid the Dracozombies for a foot unit. Not only do Phantoms help drop people over the gaps, but they distract Dracozombies too? I mean, maybe I'm stretching here, but I can definitely see Knoll above Syrene.

Myrrh has the glaring problems of 15 base HP and 5 base speed that stop her from doing much for a while. Ephraim suffers from bad availability and not much opportunity to contribute. He gets to 20 before promotion, or at least close, even if you did draft one of his cavaliers anyway.

I wasn't making some point about Ephraim being better than Myrrh: the point was more that if you're going to give the reinforcement kills to anyone, you should give them to Ephraim.

Edited September 15, 2011 by Anouleth

[Naglfar]

Yes, the draco zombies would be distracted, provided they move before the wights. Do they?

You have a point on the Warp thing.

That wasn't directed at you. It's not like Myrrh, or any other unit not busy clearing the chapter, can take those reinforcements anyway.

Edited September 15, 2011 by Naglfar

[frat_tastic]

If Artur can't get to A, nobody but Moulder can. Who has more than C Staves in Chapter 10 or 11? Nobody, basically.

Artur can spam Torch in Chapter 11 for fast WEXP, then when you get the Barrier staff he can switch over to that. There's also Barrier staves and Physic buyable in the Secret Shop. Even on very efficient playthroughs, Artur doesn't have a lot of trouble reaching A Rank, so a draft playthrough which is slower would presumably have even less difficulty.

Ok, wasn't sure. I think there definitely needs to be a tier gap then between Artur and Lute.

[Anouleth]

Well, the advantages of having a mount are pretty good too. Lute can theoretically reach A Rank herself... if you can promote her before Chapter 10. Naglfar got 8 turns on Chapter 11. That's 8 uses of Torch: AKA enough to get to C Rank and get access to Barrier in Chapter 12. I think it would be very tight since Chapter 13 is completed quite quickly, but conceivably she could have A Rank in time for lategame chapters.

Personally, I think that the Artur/Lute/Moulder/Natasha/Saleh order needs to be decided, almost seperately from the rest of the tier list.

Artur both has good combat versus Monsters, he exists in earlygame and has decent magic as well as plenty of time to reach high staff ranks. He can snipe with Purge extremely effectively, something none of the others can even try except Saleh (who's just not as good at it). I have the feeling that Artur is the best staff user in the game, unless it turns out that it's practical to go too fast for him to build staff rank.

Lute's combat is "okay"; she exists in earlygame, she can probably ORKO some slower stuff after she promotes and has enough magic to compare with Saleh and Artur in terms of range. Lute also has a mount, which is just great for some of the larger maps.

Moulder sucks at everything except for staff rank. I think that Moulder's staff rank is actually a little bit overkilled, and he's kind of weak at... everything else.

Natasha is Moulder who gets a horse on promotion, but promotes later... to be honest, the gap between Moulder and Natasha is really overstated since neither of them will struggle to reach whatever staff rank.

Saleh shows up around the same time that Lute should be finishing up C Staves. Now, he has better combat and is really good in the desert, as well as Purge access. But she has a horse and multiple chapters of availability on Saleh. This one is pretty tough to call, but I'd lean in favour of Lute, because her combat isn't that bad, and she is the only 7 move staffer with good range.

Personally, I'm inclined towards Artur>Lute>Saleh>Natasha>Moulder, which is funnily enough almost the exact opposite of what the tier list currently says.

To be honest, looking over your drafts, you seem to have been misusing your magic users. You want them to promote ASAP to start spamming dem staves and buffing their staff rank. Soul was sitting on a level 15 Artur in Chapter 11. Naglfar's Lute was sitting on level 12.

[RNG Princess]

I've used Neimi, and I don't think she belongs below Dozla, i know that she starts crappy but she gains a horse and I found that very useful for the move advantage. Moulder/Forde/Kyle/Ross/Tana seem too high especially Moulder I think all of them belong below Eirika. I had Eirika, Neimi, Vanessa team and for those early chapters Eirika was a powerhouse and even after she returned (Ephraim draft) she was useful. Eirika's availability lead > Forde/Kyle/Moulder/Ross/Tana imo.

I also agree with Knoll being above Marisa at least, I spoonfed both but I can see immediate use for him from ch. 15 on. For example if you want to cover those reinforcement tiles near Valter's area Knoll can be quite useful because him and his summon can do it. I didn't do this of course, because I like raising my characters but I don't think Marisa ever did anything better, the max weapon rank she reached was B iirc (Knoll also has all those pros listed by other posters)

and i'm with Neimi > L'Arachel, is it possible to get her to Warp's rank? and Saleh is great, with his nice bases and nice staff rank I found him an immediate combination for fighting and warping something Moulder and Natasha lack for a while. All Saleh needs is Tethys and Barrier to spam.

Edited September 16, 2011 by Queen_Kittylincia

[Naglfar]

Since everyone is saying in some capacity that Ross is too high, I'm going to start by arguing Ross > Tana and we can go from there.

Ross joins in C2, Tana in C9, giving him a big lead in availability. Ross can use these chapters, in which you will only have a small handful of units, both to contribute where Tana doesn't and develop a level lead. If Ross isn't a pirate by C5, something's wrong, and if we look at Soul's performance here, getting there by C4 isn't too hard either, and I think Pirate Ross ORKOs most of that chapter. Ross continues to contribute to fast clears while Tana is absent, especially in C7 where he's one of only two units capable of letting you skip most of the map, and C8 where he's extremely good at mowing down armours and one of the best Tirado-killers available with axes, high strength and the ability to double him with 9 speed, which he will have on average at 10/9/0, a level he should have passed by then. Come C9, Tana finally joins, but she's 4/0 and needs to be fed kills, while Ross is crossing the water and saving a large chunk of turns that, again, only he or Vanessa can save. During C10, Tana can ferry Eirika for a fast clear, but this isn't likely to be successful without luck manipulation, and I hesitate to include such as legal in an FE8 draft outside of the prologue, or even there, now that I think about it. Despite her flight, Tana will need levels to build up her combat ability and likely won't be operating at full capacity until C12. From there, Tana is amazing. She does a few things Ross and most other units can't, especially in C12, C15 and C18. And yet she's simply been missing for half the game, while Ross still exists, making it pretty much impossible for her to match the number of turns Ross alone has saved since as early as perhaps even his joining chapter.

If you want Ross to drop, convince me otherwise or show me that Ross < someone else.

Edited September 17, 2011 by Naglfar

[General Horace]

First off, I know Soul did get him to promotion by chapter 4, but it cost him a turn in chapter 2 (probably to recruit Ross) and while I don't know how tough it would really be, I imagine would be pretty tough, as Ross has no enemy phase until he gets a point of speed (otherwise, he's doubled and 2HKO'd. Even with the point of speed, he's still 2HKO'd until he reaches promotion (first one). I think it would take a good amount of luck to have Ross promoted by chapter 4.

Garcia is much better in chapter 3 and chapter 4 (if he proc's strength, he can ORKO every enemy on the map with a hand axe (the boss requires a steel axe, IIRC). Ross also perpetually lags behind Garcia in level, and by the time chapter 9 rolls around, Garcia is around level 19-20 ish, Ross around 13-14. They are pretty much the same unit. Ross pretty much never surpasses Garcia combat wise, (crits aside, but Garcia ORKO's everything anyhow, due to overlevelling. If Ross goes Pirate, he promotes one chapter earlier (although, he hasn't reached level 20 yet, not that it matters). This isn't a huge matter, as Berserker Ross isn't doing anything 20/00 Garcia can't do in chapter 10, they both can't hit things because almost everything is a sword user, and is usually flier skipped or Pally rescue-charge.

There are also easily obtainable speedwings in chapter 9 (Amelia), which helps both Ross and Garcia. They both get Garm anyhow, so speed isn't an issue lategame.

tl;dr, Ross never surpasses Garcia combat wise, and has a worse start.

Also, I agree Tana should drop a litte bit.

Edited September 17, 2011 by General_Horace

[Anouleth]

It's not always the case that the Brigands will double Ross. Although, even if he doesn't get doubled, he can't fight the reinforcements because they 2HKO him anyway.

[MacLovin]

How is Ross>Garcia AND Saleh and the x-mas Cavs?\

I dunno if this counts as a bump though.

[Vorena]

Wow, this will be a long time, but some things simmer for quite awhile though.

Well, the advantages of having a mount are pretty good too. Lute can theoretically reach A Rank herself... if you can promote her before Chapter 10. Naglfar got 8 turns on Chapter 11. That's 8 uses of Torch: AKA enough to get to C Rank and get access to Barrier in Chapter 12. I think it would be very tight since Chapter 13 is completed quite quickly, but conceivably she could have A Rank in time for lategame chapters.

Personally, I think that the Artur/Lute/Moulder/Natasha/Saleh order needs to be decided, almost seperately from the rest of the tier list.

Artur both has good combat versus Monsters, he exists in earlygame and has decent magic as well as plenty of time to reach high staff ranks. He can snipe with Purge extremely effectively, something none of the others can even try except Saleh (who's just not as good at it). I have the feeling that Artur is the best staff user in the game, unless it turns out that it's practical to go too fast for him to build staff rank.

Lute's combat is "okay"; she exists in earlygame, she can probably ORKO some slower stuff after she promotes and has enough magic to compare with Saleh and Artur in terms of range. Lute also has a mount, which is just great for some of the larger maps.

Moulder sucks at everything except for staff rank. I think that Moulder's staff rank is actually a little bit overkilled, and he's kind of weak at... everything else.

Natasha is Moulder who gets a horse on promotion, but promotes later... to be honest, the gap between Moulder and Natasha is really overstated since neither of them will struggle to reach whatever staff rank.

Saleh shows up around the same time that Lute should be finishing up C Staves. Now, he has better combat and is really good in the desert, as well as Purge access. But she has a horse and multiple chapters of availability on Saleh. This one is pretty tough to call, but I'd lean in favour of Lute, because her combat isn't that bad, and she is the only 7 move staffer with good range.

Personally, I'm inclined towards Artur>Lute>Saleh>Natasha>Moulder, which is funnily enough almost the exact opposite of what the tier list currently says.

To be honest, looking over your drafts, you seem to have been misusing your magic users. You want them to promote ASAP to start spamming dem staves and buffing their staff rank. Soul was sitting on a level 15 Artur in Chapter 11. Naglfar's Lute was sitting on level 12.

I sort of lack experience on all the combinations, but on the paper theory I agree with Anou.

At the very least, I think Moulder gets removed from high and Artur gets placed there instead.

.

Artur comes early and actually assists in combat before needing a guiding ring. He only needs 10 turns with Torch usage by itself on chapter 11 (Eirika Route) to reach B staff. Plus, he can spam that stuff on that chapter and still be useful by combat phase. Can deal with the boss or reinforcements in the rear while he does this. You get barrier the following chapter and several opportunities over the next several chapters before you finally get Warp. Plus, he gets the added utility of monster killing. Purge has a few niche utilities in making your life easier.

Having extra characters to kill stuff is useful while Moulder is just taking up space until he gets combat. Which unless you safe all the villages in 5 means you are waiting much longer before the next guiding ring comes around. Having rank A staff early is not that useful compared to the combat early on and for most of the game. Plus, he has lower average magic than Artur. 10/1 M = 8.8 mag while Artur is 10/1 M = 12 mag. With combat gaining more exp quickly early on compared to staff usage Artur would be able to further that magic gap. Having 10 warp space is pretty decent for artur.

No real opinion on Lute.

Edited June 21, 2014 by Vorena

[Refa]

Lute's better than Saleh for being an early game unit who can fight things (granted, getting her the required Staff EXP is really tight but it's not much better for Saleh, if at all).

[ZemZem]

Thankfully promoted magic users that aren't Knoll or Shaman!Ewan start off with D staves instead of E.

But then again, FE7 gave units like Erk and Canas a lot of time to bring their staff rank to A due to FE7 being longer than FE8 and the surplus of defense chapters. While FE8 doesn't really have that luxury...

[Hawk King]

This tier list is extremely out-dated, and many of the opinions expressed in it are just wrong.

It should never have been brought back to life, because its creator will never update it.

[Vorena]

I would rather stuff get discussed here( at least initially) before starting a new tier list thread if need be. Plus, would not you say activity and discussion is more important than the final list? To me, tier list is a quick way to see some of the better character choices, but often you do not understand why and I look for the reason in the debate leading up to there position.

Simply not discussing a topic is pretty much killing activity as a whole and is part of what keeps a forum alive.

[General Horace]

The main problem with discussing stuff here is we can't change the OP when we inevitably realize that Ross isn't 3rd pick material. (Seriously, what?)

I'd be more than happy to talk about things though, once I'm not on a phone.

[Hawk King]

-God tier-

Vanessa

-Top-

Franz

Artur

Lute

-High-

Saleh

Cormag (Ephriam)

Tana

Ross

Gilliam

Garcia

-Mid-

Moulder

Natasha

Forde

Kyle

Gerik

Duessel (Ephriam)

Colm

Neimi

Amelia

-Low-

L'Arachel

Joshua

Dozla

Innes

Ewan

Saleh (Ephriam)

-Bottom-

Knoll

Innes (Ephriam)

Duessel

Rennac

Syrene

-Unrecruited-

Rennac (Ephriam)

Cormag

Marissa

Eirika route and Trainee tower rule of course. And turns saved/cost are the #1 factor for positioning.

Edited June 28, 2014 by Hawk King

[King Marth]

What's the reasoning behind Gilliam>Garcia? Is it just the earlier promotion for Chapter 8?

[General Horace]

Gilliam vs Garcia is kinda weird, Garcia is better until chapter 8 and 9, where Gil promotes and is slightly better for a couple chapters until both become pretty interchangable. Gilliam's value plummets if you have Franz and to a lesser extent, Kyle/Forde. Garcia just kind of exists to be good in rout chapters.

I'm not actually sure who I think is better actually. Depends on the team.

I'd argue that Colm is too high because warpers are always getting enough magic regardless of the extra ring

Rennac is by far the worst unit other than the unrecruited duo. At least knoll can summon things to help rout chapter 18.

Edited June 23, 2014 by General Horace

[Elieson]

Why is Innes that low? He saves a turn in Eirika route's FoW chapter with his Longbow, and doesn't come /that/ late. He should be better than Dozla at least, no?

Unless Dozla's Critbliking is that valuable.

[General Horace]

that isn't exclusive to Innes, anyone with a flier or Neimi can replicate it.

I've even had Dozla go over there once, im not sure how that happened to be honest. Honestly Innes and Dozla are pretty interchangeable

[Elieson]

that isn't exclusive to Innes, anyone with a flier or Neimi can replicate it.

I've even had Dozla go over there once, im not sure how that happened to be honest. Honestly Innes and Dozla are pretty interchangeable

I don't think a flier could, unless you're talkign about making a distance charge straight south on the left-hand side of the map (and you'd want one of your two fliers probably taking the main route instead due to reinforcements, non?

Neimi could, I guess, but she's already higher than Innes.

[General Horace]

imo its better to send the flier down the left side because there are like 10 million trees. The right part of the map really isn't a huge problem, as long as you have someone to kill the boss.

[Hawk King]

Moved Knoll up.

Rennac can help with the Chapter 15 rout and does just as much as Duessel or Syrene in the maps after that point.

Colm gets the energy ring which can be useful for more than just extra warp range. Kyle, Forde, Neimi, Amelia, and others can make use of it as well. Plus, Colm can rescue Eirika so he can potentially save a turn in Chapter 5 with his 6 movement. And another in Chapter 7 with his river crossing.

Gilliam does roughly the same as Garcia early on and then he gets a mount which is great for Chapter 14. Like Horace said, it depends on your team since there could be competition for the Knights crest.

Dozla has 1-2 range weapons to give him the slight edge over Innes.

[eclipse]

Whoever can actually use Syrene without having her insta-blicked in Chapter 18 - how much does she help, assuming that you don't have another flier?

[BBM]

Innes has Longbow for C18. Might not make a difference, but it's still somewhat of a niche, far more than unimpressive 1-2 range combat that a lot of people do way better. C13 is being cleared in 2-3 and not by either Dozla or Innes. C14 is also a map where neither are contributing to the primary objective. I guess they could take on some secondary enemies somewhere but Innes has better 2 range than Dozla and has better across-the-wall sniping. Dozla probably has somewhat of an edge in C15 but Innes can also still kill the peg reinforcements or wyverns, whom Dozla probably doesn't ORKO? Neither of them are contributing after that except for C18, where I think Innes's Longbow is more of an edge than Dozla, who can be replaced by literally anyone other than, like, Joshua/Marisa/Colm/Rennac

Innes also has pretty much guaranteed Nidhogg, while Dozla is competing with a bunch of far better axe-users for Garm.

Personally I'd make an Eph list as well. 2nd last spot simply doesn't reflect Cormag's drafting position to me, because realistically someone is going to take him somewhere in the middle and if they get Duessel too, seriously consider going that route. It's not a bad strategy IMO for 4th pick to doublepick them in rounds 3 and 4.

Also even for Eir I would espouse Duessel up over at least Rennac. If Rennac can be used by people who haven't drafted him in the desert (please verify?) that's like all his value gone there. And plus there's that trick that gives you 100% item finding rate in the desert. What is Rennac doing past that? There's nothing really for him to steal at that point in the game that's going to make a difference. Meanwhile Duessel can take on like the entire bottom half in C15 and then makes for way better filler combat than Rennac for C18.