Mechanics that you want

[Othin]

A character's class doesn't need to be their entire existence to be a key part of who they are.

"Hi. I'm Canas, a student of dark magic and a huge nerd, but I can go pick up this axe and beat people to death with it and completely forget how to use dark magic at all."

Does Canas do anything else? I really can't remember. Either way, the same concept applies in a similar way to most mages.

This also emphasizes my point that even if you don't use the option, it still ruins the characters' identities - the fact that Cord and Caesar can be about as competent spellcasters as Merric with absolutely no effort. In FE1 and FE3, Merric's role in the gameplay was a powerful mage specializing in wind magic and capable of using his personal time Excalibur. In FE11 and FE12, he's just a bunch of numbers with the ability to use Excalibur earlier than other characters, all of whom are just as able to become a competent mage as he is without all his training that his backstory indicates he has.

Edited October 13, 2011 by Othin

[Rewjeo]

And Aethereal's right, a character's class is an important part of their background and mindset, why they chose the weapon and style they use.

Really? Because I'm pretty sure it wouldn't change Draug's character to make him a cavalier instead of an armor knight. Making him a pirate, yes, but is there any part of his character that revolves around specifically what kind of Altean knight he is? Not that I'm aware of. It's just that he is a knight of Altea. Why would making him use a bow or sticking him on a horse instead change that?

A character's class doesn't need to be their entire existence to be a key part of who they are.

Yeah, but how often is it really critical to someone's character that they are EXACTLY that class? Canas, sure. Karel, sure. Would it destroy (to continue the FE7 characters) Harken's character if he was a paladin instead? In a game with actual character development, I agree reclassing would need to be more limited, but not nonexistent (with a few exceptions, like Karel or Canas, although honestly Karel could be another sword using class as long as IS actually did a decent job of making SM as a good a class as others) because what style of Altean knight is not an essential part of, as far as I can tell, any of the Altean knights' stories.

This also emphasizes my point that even if you don't use the option, it still ruins the characters' identities - the fact that Cord and Caesar can be about as competent spellcasters as Merric with absolutely no effort. In FE1 and FE3, Merric's role in the gameplay was a powerful mage specializing in wind magic and capable of using his personal time Excalibur. In FE11 and FE12, he's just a bunch of numbers with the ability to use Excalibur earlier than other characters, all of whom are just as able to become a competent mage as he is without all his training that his backstory indicates he has.

A: How is it that Cord/Caesar could become those mages if you don't use reclass? (Edit: Wait, I get what you were saying now. I shouldn't type this stuff up at 4 AM, probably)

B: So as long as you ignore what makes Merric different, he's the same? No way!

C: They are hardly as competent, especially at first when, hey, Merric's training would probably make the biggest difference! Merric has an extra 8 MT and 20 CRIT at first as well as a flyer bonus, which is a freaking ton when you're targeting resistance and that 8 damage is not only like 35-45% of enemies' HP but also means Merric is MORE THAN DOUBLING Cord's MT. So while Cord is like 3-4HKOing, Merric is 2HKOing and is also more likely to double. Merric also has MUCH superior HP and a better DEF growth than Cord. On the offense they're pretty equal... eventually. You know, once Cord has gotten enough training it is reasonable for that to be the case. And beyond that, he has the highest MAG growth of any nonmagician unit- he is unusual in having the potential to be a solid magician without having gone into it initially. I'd actually say that ADDS something to his character.

Edited October 13, 2011 by Rewjeo

[Anouleth]

In FE11 and FE12, he's just a bunch of numbers with the ability to use Excalibur earlier than other characters, all of whom are just as able to become a competent mage as he is without all his training that his backstory indicates he has.

And in FE5, Othin, a random nobody from some shitstain village in the middle of nowhere, can become just as good as Galzus, an experienced veteran with powerful holy blood. Backstory clearly doesn't come into it. Amelia can become more powerful than Duessel if trained. That shouldn't be possible, going by "backstory". How is it that Oscar, a random mercenary, actually turns into a better character than Geoffrey, the commander of Crimea's Royal Knights?

[CrashGordon94]

I was just thinking about Attack Speed again, thought of another system, this one would give Mages a reason to have Strength but wouldn't put low Strength physical units in a Catch-22 situation.

For Physical weapons and maybe Magic weapons (i.e. Sonic Sword, Runesword and so on), Attack Speed = Speed - (Weapon Weight - Build) just like FE5 (i.e. GIVING BUILD A GROWTH RATE!).

For Magical Tomes and maybe Magic weapons, Attack Speed = Speed - (Weapon Weight - Strength) just like FE9/10/11.

Any thoughts?

[Othin]

I was just thinking about Attack Speed again, thought of another system, this one would give Mages a reason to have Strength but wouldn't put low Strength physical units in a Catch-22 situation.

For Physical weapons and maybe Magic weapons (i.e. Sonic Sword, Runesword and so on), Attack Speed = Speed - (Weapon Weight - Build) just like FE5 (i.e. GIVING BUILD A GROWTH RATE!).

For Magical Tomes and maybe Magic weapons, Attack Speed = Speed - (Weapon Weight - Strength) just like FE9/10/11.

Any thoughts?

I've had the same idea. It seems like the best of both worlds, combining the systems that work best for each group.

[Momo]

A character's class doesn't need to be their entire existence to be a key part of who they are.

"Hi. I'm Canas, a student of dark magic and a huge nerd, but I can go pick up this axe and beat people to death with it and completely forget how to use dark magic at all."

Does Canas do anything else? I really can't remember. Either way, the same concept applies in a similar way to most mages.

Are you saying this is a good thing? Canas has no character other than "I use dark magic". You could proably salvage something if you wanted to (A main with a willingness to learn), but instead you choose to sum him up that way. That's what you call a bad character.

[Othin]

Yeah, but how often is it really critical to someone's character that they are EXACTLY that class? Canas, sure. Karel, sure. Would it destroy (to continue the FE7 characters) Harken's character if he was a paladin instead? In a game with actual character development, I agree reclassing would need to be more limited, but not nonexistent (with a few exceptions, like Karel or Canas, although honestly Karel could be another sword using class as long as IS actually did a decent job of making SM as a good a class as others) because what style of Altean knight is not an essential part of, as far as I can tell, any of the Altean knights' stories.

A: How is it that Cord/Caesar could become those mages if you don't use reclass? (Edit: Wait, I get what you were saying now. I shouldn't type this stuff up at 4 AM, probably)

B: So as long as you ignore what makes Merric different, he's the same? No way!

C: They are hardly as competent, especially at first when, hey, Merric's training would probably make the biggest difference! Merric has an extra 8 MT and 20 CRIT at first as well as a flyer bonus, which is a freaking ton when you're targeting resistance and that 8 damage is not only like 35-45% of enemies' HP but also means Merric is MORE THAN DOUBLING Cord's MT. So while Cord is like 3-4HKOing, Merric is 2HKOing and is also more likely to double. Merric also has MUCH superior HP and a better DEF growth than Cord. On the offense they're pretty equal... eventually. You know, once Cord has gotten enough training it is reasonable for that to be the case. And beyond that, he has the highest MAG growth of any nonmagician unit- he is unusual in having the potential to be a solid magician without having gone into it initially. I'd actually say that ADDS something to his character.

Ideally, a game would have all characters detailed enough that most if not all of them could not reasonably leave their initial class, so a reclass system would be completely unfeasible.

It's important to also consider distance from the class. If a character isn't really changing fighting style with reclass, but just one aspect, like their chosen weapon, it leads to its own issues. Say FE10 had the reclass system, and you could reclass characters between the Paladin classes, but not otherwise. The result would be that Paladin characters would have access to all four possible weapon types, but would have to choose one per chapter, leaving it completely nonsensical as to why they wouldn't have the other options. And would other characters have that versatility? Probably not, making some classes even more overpowered.

Merric has that extra Mt and Crit with Excalibur. Outside of Excalibur, he has about as much skill with magic, so as I said, his skill is basically just access to a single additional weapon earlier. He's faster, which makes him more effective, but it doesn't say anything about the effect of his magical training. Furthermore, while Cord and Caesar have the highest Mag growths, it's not by much. Other characters can be almost as effective, just losing a point or two over all their level ups.

And in FE5, Othin, a random nobody from some shitstain village in the middle of nowhere, can become just as good as Galzus, an experienced veteran with powerful holy blood. Backstory clearly doesn't come into it. Amelia can become more powerful than Duessel if trained. That shouldn't be possible, going by "backstory". How is it that Oscar, a random mercenary, actually turns into a better character than Geoffrey, the commander of Crimea's Royal Knights?

If Othin or Oscar get stats that high, it's because they've been doing enough fighting throughout a war to become experienced veterans themselves. Furthermore, while Othin is not descended from the Crusaders himself, he can pump himself full of their power with the Crusader scrolls throughout the game. There's also the matter of stat caps in FE5, indicating that for whatever reason, in that game, the physical limits for peoples' abilities are low and often not overly difficult to reach.

However, this is still largely irrelevant, since you're addressing the level system, which is like that in all RPGs, and yes, it's a bit screwy, but there aren't great alternatives. It's a necessary suspension of disbelief, while the reclass system just stretches the matter much farther than necessary.

Are you saying this is a good thing? Canas has no character other than "I use dark magic". You could proably salvage something if you wanted to (A main with a willingness to learn), but instead you choose to sum him up that way. That's what you call a bad character.

Well first, let's look at what I was really saying.

A character's class doesn't need to be their entire existence to be a key part of who they are.

In other words, it's not his entire existence. It's just important.

Of course, you could argue that it is. I wouldn't really care, since it doesn't diminish the far wider group of all possible examples.

Edited October 13, 2011 by Othin

[arvilino]

Merric has that extra Mt and Crit with Excalibur. Outside of Excalibur, he has about as much skill with magic, so as I said, his skill is basically just access to a single additional weapon earlier. He's faster, which makes him more effective, but it doesn't say anything about the effect of his magical training. Furthermore, while Cord and Caesar have the highest Mag growths, it's not by much. Other characters can be almost as effective, just losing a point or two over all their level ups.

I thought the effect of his magical training was story-wise, in that he created the Excalibur Tome. Like the Thoron Tome is Boa's, but Boa isn't magnificant stat-wise.

[Momo]

Well first, let's look at what I was really saying.

In other words, it's not his entire existence. It's just important.

Of course, you could argue that it is. I wouldn't really care, since it doesn't diminish the far wider group of all possible examples.

Give them to me. You could show me tons of examples, and I could show you tons of bad characters.

[Aethereal]

Are you saying this is a good thing? Canas has no character other than "I use dark magic". You could proably salvage something if you wanted to (A main with a willingness to learn), but instead you choose to sum him up that way. That's what you call a bad character.

I don't think that's what he meant at all. Canas actually talks about a lot besides dark magic (Mainly the pursuit of knowledge, his wife/mother/nino's parents) in his supports. However, the fact that he is a dark magic user is an important part of his character history-his mother is a master of it, and his brothers lost their minds because of it, and despite this, his pursuit of knowledge drove him to take the risk of studying dark magic anyways. If I make Canas a fighter, or hell even a monk, doesn't that devalue a big part of his character history? Doesn't it make his backstory nonsensical, as well as contradict his personality? I can see some select instances, like the Harken example, where it could make some sense to reclass. I'm not completely against the idea, but I think it doesn't make a lot of sense in most cases, and I think the idea of it just promotes less diversity in the game. Sticking with Harken, or any mercenary/hero, why couldn't they use a sword if they switched to something like a Warrior? And why couldn't they use a bow if they switched back? And Harken switching to a paladin, why would you ever WANT a hero if you could just switch to a mounted version of it with an extra weapon type? I dunno. I can kinda understand how it could make sense in some scenarios, but I still think it makes classes largely pointless, and devalues them, along with a character's backstory.

Can you(or any one) explain to me how Canas' backstory would make sense if you made him into a fighter? Can you explain how a shaman just suddenly forgets how to use dark magic when he picks up an axe? I don't mean this to be facetious, maybe I just don't understand something you all are seeing. I kinda doubt it, but I'm open to being proved wrong.

[Rewjeo]

Ideally, a game would have all characters detailed enough that most if not all of them could not reasonably leave their initial class, so a reclass system would be completely unfeasible.

I disagree. If we have that much detail about 76-odd characters, I do NOT want to wade through a full biography on each of them. Beyond that, I think that in many cases someone uses a weapon because that's what was available. Someone could be a bandit and I don't see how whether they use an axe or a sword is all that important, and quite frankly it wouldn't surprise me if the Xmas Knights in whatever game spent at least some portion of time training with alternate fighting styles before deciding on the cavalier style.

It's important to also consider distance from the class. If a character isn't really changing fighting style with reclass, but just one aspect, like their chosen weapon, it leads to its own issues. Say FE10 had the reclass system, and you could reclass characters between the Paladin classes, but not otherwise. The result would be that Paladin characters would have access to all four possible weapon types, but would have to choose one per chapter, leaving it completely nonsensical as to why they wouldn't have the other options. And would other characters have that versatility? Probably not, making some classes even more overpowered.

\

I find it interesting you can accept some nonsensical things as just part of the game but not others. Beyond that, I simply wouldn't give those characters those options for just that reason. But why should they not be able to switch between other classes?

Merric has that extra Mt and Crit with Excalibur. Outside of Excalibur, he has about as much skill with magic, so as I said, his skill is basically just access to a single additional weapon earlier. He's faster, which makes him more effective, but it doesn't say anything about the effect of his magical training. Furthermore, while Cord and Caesar have the highest Mag growths, it's not by much. Other characters can be almost as effective, just losing a point or two over all their level ups.

The fact that Merric can use (and, IIRC, MADE) this super powerful spell is not indicative of his training as a mage?

In other words, it's not his entire existence. It's just important.

The thing is, I'm arguing that it is NOT very important for many characters.

[Anouleth]

If Othin or Oscar get stats that high, it's because they've been doing enough fighting throughout a war to become experienced veterans themselves. Furthermore, while Othin is not descended from the Crusaders himself, he can pump himself full of their power with the Crusader scrolls throughout the game. There's also the matter of stat caps in FE5, indicating that for whatever reason, in that game, the physical limits for peoples' abilities are low and often not overly difficult to reach.

So why is it that it's acceptable for Othin to eventually grow to match even extremely powerful (story-wise) units, but it's not acceptable for a character in FE11 to reclass to mage, and as the result of fighting through war, eventually become comparable in magical ability to Merric? Because to me, it seems pretty acceptable, and most units don't even match Merric as a mage. And hey, maybe Cord and Caesar just have some latent magical ability? Why is it so impossible for some people to have magical abilities that they're not aware of?

However, this is still largely irrelevant, since you're addressing the level system, which is like that in all RPGs, and yes, it's a bit screwy, but there aren't great alternatives. It's a necessary suspension of disbelief, while the reclass system just stretches the matter much farther than necessary.

And I find that my suspension of disbelief isn't stretched by reclass. After all, I'm happy to play around with reclassing systems in Final Fantasy.

Ideally, a game would have all characters detailed enough that most if not all of them could not reasonably leave their initial class, so a reclass system would be completely unfeasible.

No Fire Emblem has that level of detail on every single character, or even more than one or two. I think that personalities in any case shouldn't be built around "I USE SWORDS I AM SWORD PERSON NOTHING ELSE", and that you can have a good character without constructing it in that way.

Edited October 13, 2011 by Anouleth

[NinjaMonkey]

I was just thinking about Attack Speed again, thought of another system, this one would give Mages a reason to have Strength but wouldn't put low Strength physical units in a Catch-22 situation.

For Physical weapons and maybe Magic weapons (i.e. Sonic Sword, Runesword and so on), Attack Speed = Speed - (Weapon Weight - Build) just like FE5 (i.e. GIVING BUILD A GROWTH RATE!).

For Magical Tomes and maybe Magic weapons, Attack Speed = Speed - (Weapon Weight - Strength) just like FE9/10/11.

Any thoughts?

Even better, just have Attack Speed = Speed, like in FE12...

[Momo]

Can you(or any one) explain to me how Canas' backstory would make sense if you made him into a fighter? Can you explain how a shaman just suddenly forgets how to use dark magic when he picks up an axe? I don't mean this to be facetious, maybe I just don't understand something you all are seeing. I kinda doubt it, but I'm open to being proved wrong.

The thing is, it does not matter. Gameplay canas is not the same as story Canas, just like everyone else. You don't seen to have a problem with things like Eliwood and Mist pulling horses out of their asses and somehow knowing how to ride them like experts.

[Othin]

Even better, just have Attack Speed = Speed, like in FE12...

And take out a factor from the game? Where would be the sense in that?

Bld is one factor that allows units to be distinct from one another, and Wt is one factor that allows weapons to be distinct from one another. These are good things to have, and help add gameplay meaning to choices between different characters and weapons, something the FE series has been lacking lately.

The thing is, it does not matter. Gameplay canas is not the same as story Canas, just like everyone else. You don't seen to have a problem with things like Eliwood and Mist pulling horses out of their asses and somehow knowing how to ride them like experts.

Gameplay Canas lines up well enough with story Canas, and that's a good thing; it allows the gameplay to reinforce him as a character. Throwing that away for a feature like reclass is senseless.

I've already addressed the matter of promotions. The problem is not the ability of a character to quickly learn a new skill. The problem is the ability of any character to immediately learn any new skill, and then to forget the others for no reason only to remember them when they want them later. When Eliwood promoted and becomes able to ride a horse, it represents the result of training him extensively and using a powerful magic item on him. Perhaps he was training in horseback combat during times that weren't shown, and perhaps the Heaven Seal imbued him with knowledge somehow.

The problem here is that characters have access to any fighting style at any time and can forget their previous fighting style entirely in order to learn it. At least in Final Fantasy games characters will often have some shared equipment between the classes and some reason why the class change happens other than the character picking up a different weapon.

Edited October 14, 2011 by Othin

[Momo]

Gameplay Canas lines up well enough with story Canas, and that's a good thing; it allows the gameplay to reinforce him as a character. Throwing that away for a feature like reclass is senseless.

So don't reclass him if you like it so much. There's no reason to stop someone else that doesn't care, from doing it.

[Anouleth]

The problem here is that characters have access to any fighting style at any time and can forget their previous fighting style entirely in order to learn it.

They don't "forget" it, they just choose not to use it to work on a different fighting style. Like, you couldn't use the same fighting style as a Cavalier and a Myrmidon, since one is lightly armoured and the other is on a horse. Nabarl doesn't forget how to be a Myrmidon when you reclass him, he's just choosing to fight a different way, or with a different weapon.

At least in Final Fantasy games characters will often have some shared equipment between the classes

Many classes in FE11 share equipment as well: in fact, it happens far more often than in FF. And when a character in FE class changes, they're often penalised by only being able to use the weakest weapons of that weapon type, which makes sense since they don't have a lot of experience with it. In FF, a character that class changes has all the same available options as someone who's been in that class from before the beginning of the game.

and some reason why the class change happens other than the character picking up a different weapon.

Uh, not really. The explanations are absurdly loose. How does changing your clothes in FFX-2 cause you to gain and lose abilities, especially when in FFX, characters had those abilities innately?

[NinjaMonkey]

And take out a factor from the game? Where would be the sense in that?

Why do you feel the need to over-complicate things?

Edited October 14, 2011 by NinjaMonkey

[Momo]

Why did Matthew forget how to steal things when I made him an Assassin :(

[Othin]

So don't reclass him if you like it so much. There's no reason to stop someone else that doesn't care, from doing it.

As I've already explains, even having the option, knowing that he could do so if he wanted to, would take away from his characterization.

They don't "forget" it, they just choose not to use it to work on a different fighting style. Like, you couldn't use the same fighting style as a Cavalier and a Myrmidon, since one is lightly armoured and the other is on a horse. Nabarl doesn't forget how to be a Myrmidon when you reclass him, he's just choosing to fight a different way, or with a different weapon.

Many classes in FE11 share equipment as well: in fact, it happens far more often than in FF. And when a character in FE class changes, they're often penalised by only being able to use the weakest weapons of that weapon type, which makes sense since they don't have a lot of experience with it. In FF, a character that class changes has all the same available options as someone who's been in that class from before the beginning of the game.

Uh, not really. The explanations are absurdly loose. How does changing your clothes in FFX-2 cause you to gain and lose abilities, especially when in FFX, characters had those abilities innately?

Congratulations; you picked the only two unpromoted classes that can reclass into each other and share a weapon. Let's look at some more applicable ones. Say, if he were to become a mage. There's little or nothing preventing him from being able to use swords while he prepares to cast spells, and yet he still can't equip them. And the notion that it's a choice "to work on a different fighting style" is laughable. FE games have battles and wars. People don't go into war and choose not to use their best weapon just to train in another; they use whatever they know how to that works best for the situation. Say Nabarl is attacked by a Mage Dragon while he's a mage. Logically, he should just pull out his sword and stab it. But even if he has the sword in his inventory, even if it's a matter of life and death for him, he won't equip it. That indicates that it's not that he chooses not to; no one is that stupid. It indicates that he can't equip it - he can't switch to equip the sword except back at base, and for absolutely no reason.

FE represents training with equipment options, FF does not. FF's makes more sense in some ways; if you can swing an iron axe at people, there's no reason you can't swing around a silver axe. It's other things you won't be so good at. I'm not sure about the details; again, the only FF I've really played with a job system was FFV, and it dealt with the matter quite well by having the characters gain their abilities from magic crystals rather than just "player says so" and having them learn job-specific abilities by training in a job.

Why do you feel the need to over-complicate things?

I feel the need to do what is necessary to improve the quality of a game. In this situation, more complexity helps with that; it often does.

Why did Matthew forget how to steal things when I made him an Assassin :(

That's the same issue, although on a much smaller scale.

Edited October 14, 2011 by Othin

[LeaderR Elliot]

I will just point on Gotoh...

Who can be reclassed after endgame despite of being a divine dragon, the archsage of magic etc. he even was a good levin swordmaster .

I would like to see in this game...

1) Wi-Fi.

2) FE11/12 savepoints.

3) 3 Story supports (FE12) and one Free support (FE10).

4) Authority stars, made some bosses respectable to me.

5) weaker forging system than FE11/12 let say up to 5th tier of forge.

I can live without shoving or rescue, and even without skills, but I mainly would like to see that.

EDIT: Lena can Solo Chp 15 in FE11, she just need enough defense, avoid, vulneraries and to defeat the mage dragon she just need to eat pure waters until the Magestone breaks

Edited October 14, 2011 by LeaderR Elliot

[Anouleth]

Congratulations; you picked the only two unpromoted classes that can reclass into each other and share a weapon.

There's also Pirate and Fighter, and in FE12 class sets are merged so there are many more unpromoted classes that share weapon types. The distinction between "class set A" and "class set B" always seemed kind of pointless to me.

Let's look at some more applicable ones. Say, if he were to become a mage. There's little or nothing preventing him from being able to use swords while he prepares to cast spells, and yet he still can't equip them.

There's nothing preventing anyone from picking up a sword, at any time.

And the notion that it's a choice "to work on a different fighting style" is laughable. FE games have battles and wars. People don't go into war and choose not to use their best weapon just to train in another; they use whatever they know how to that works best for the situation.

Right, and in the same way, realistically, you'd never use a crap unit in the hope they they'll eventually get better, so they should just completely throw out growth units as well. Generals don't go into war and choose not to use their strongest units because they'll learn how to fight better. Yet FE isn't realistic.

Say Nabarl is attacked by a Mage Dragon while he's a mage. Logically, he should just pull out his sword and stab it.

Logically, any magic user should do that.

But even if he has the sword in his inventory, even if it's a matter of life and death for him, he won't equip it. That indicates that it's not that he chooses not to; no one is that stupid. It indicates that he can't equip it - he can't switch to equip the sword except back at base, and for absolutely no reason.

The rules of the game state that mages can't use swords. Nabarl can't just break the rules like that!

FE represents training with equipment options, FF does not. FF's makes more sense in some ways; if you can swing an iron axe at people, there's no reason you can't swing around a silver axe.

Levelling up systems typically don't make a whole lot of sense...

[Othin]

There's also Pirate and Fighter, and in FE12 class sets are merged so there are many more unpromoted classes that share weapon types. The distinction between "class set A" and "class set B" always seemed kind of pointless to me.

Details, details. Doesn't change the point. The class sets were merged so females wouldn't be at a disadvantage; it should've been kept that way.

There's nothing preventing anyone from picking up a sword, at any time.

In other FE games, if a character can't equip a sword they're holding, it's because they aren't trained in using it. That's clearly not the case for Nabarl.

Right, and in the same way, realistically, you'd never use a crap unit in the hope they they'll eventually get better, so they should just completely throw out growth units as well. Generals don't go into war and choose not to use their strongest units because they'll learn how to fight better. Yet FE isn't realistic.

The choices you might choose to make as a player are not the same as the "choices" the characters are forced to make. If the characters really can use other weapon types at a given time, they should have weapon levels in those weapon types.

Logically, any magic user should do that.

Most magic users aren't skilled sword fighters. Except for the ones in FE4/5/TRS/Berwick, who already will do that.

The rules of the game state that mages can't use swords. Nabarl can't just break the rules like that!

I prefer to play games that have at least some sense to their rules when feasible.

Levelling up systems typically don't make a whole lot of sense...

Finally, something we can agree on.

[Momo]

As I've already explains, even having the option, knowing that he could do so if he wanted to, would take away from his characterization.

Yeah, and every healer ever can kill people. Your point? People do things out of character all the time, ever have someone attack an enemy instead of talk to them?

Also Etzel is essentially the exact same character as Canas, and him being a Berserker is not the end of the world.

Edited October 14, 2011 by Momo

[Othin]

Yeah, and every healer ever can kill people. Your point? People do things out of character all the time, ever have someone attack an enemy instead of talk to them?

Also Etzel is essentially the exact same character as Canas, and him being a Berserker is not the end of the world.

I believe I've made my stance on all of these points clear, and I'm not interested in dancing around in circles. I'm done wasting my time with you.

Edited October 14, 2011 by Othin