Mechanics that you want

[CrashGordon94]

Without having tried it, how do you know?

Because I couldn't think of any way to figure it out without fooling around with buttons I don't recognise and I don't want to do that because I DON'T enjoy excessive trial and error.

Also, stop saying that.

[Anouleth]

Because I couldn't think of any way to figure it out without fooling around with buttons I don't recognise and I don't want to do that because I DON'T enjoy excessive trial and error.

Sure, but pressing the button once, finding out what it does, and then going back is hardly "excessive". Five seconds at most.

[CrashGordon94]

It is when I have to do that for every button on every menu.

[Othin]

Because I couldn't think of any way to figure it out without fooling around with buttons I don't recognise and I don't want to do that because I DON'T enjoy excessive trial and error.

Also, stop saying that.

Most of the time, you can see most of the implications before finalizing the decision, so there's rarely much cost to an error beyond a button press to go back. Hardly anything worth fretting over.

Stop saying what? Rational inquisitions?

[CrashGordon94]

Most of the time, you can see most of the implications before finalizing the decision, so there's rarely much cost to an error beyond a button press to go back. Hardly anything worth fretting over.

The implications that are ALSO in moonspeak!

That's another thing now that I think of it, I wouldn't be able to read the combat window either!

Stop saying what? Rational inquisitions?

No, an irritating and unnecesarry question.

[Othin]

The implications that are ALSO in moonspeak!

That's another thing now that I think of it, I wouldn't be able to read the combat window either!

No, an irritating and unnecesarry question.

Oh, now you're just being ridiculous. Let's say you're using Dean, an Axe Fighter. You hit a button and you're given a menu where you can select a weapon, then select an adjacent enemy. You also get a window showing some numbers like these, the first and third changing depending on his weapon:

23

3

76

You're going to immediately realize that you're on the screen to attack an enemy, and that those numbers are Atk, Def, and Hit. Don't even try to say you wouldn't, especially after just a minute of playing the game.

Now let's say you hit another button. You get a similar screen, except Dean's numbers look like this:

23

0

76+22

And if you proceed to the combat screen, you see that the enemy's Hit is 100. You're going to realize immediately, just as I did, that you're selecting a skill that sacrifices defenses in exchange for accuracy. (And this was before there was any guide in English to tell me that such a skill existed, explain how it worked, and list Dean as having it.) It's not difficult stuff.

[Celice]

23

3

76

You're going to immediately realize that you're on the screen to attack an enemy, and that those numbers are Atk, Def, and Hit. Don't even try to say you wouldn't, especially after just a minute of playing the game.

The 3 could easily be a Critical Chance, or perhaps avoid, or perhaps likeliness-to-faint.

[Othin]

The 3 could easily be a Critical Chance, or perhaps avoid, or perhaps likeliness-to-faint.

Okay, you're right. At first glance, it could. Until you notice that he gets attacked by an enemy with 12 Mt and takes 9 damage. Or you checked and saw that 3 is his base Defense, and that that space is the only one with a 3. After that, you're not going to forget where Defense shows up on the combat screens.

[CT075]

Well, if Berwick is somewhat like FE (I'd love to play it but haven't, as my computer can't run the emulator), you could probably figure out what is what just by looking at those numbers. Does it sound all that likely that your unit is going to be doing 79 damage to an enemy? Or that he has 6 hit? Maybe, but I doubt it.

Then again this is Crash. Some part of me wants to make an FE hack that changes all the button names or replaces them with blank labels and give it to him

Edited January 14, 2012 by Camtech

[Othin]

Well, if Berwick is somewhat like FE (I'd love to play it but haven't, as my computer can't run the emulator), you could probably figure out what is what just by looking at those numbers. Does it sound all that likely that your unit is going to be doing 79 damage to an enemy? Or that he has 6 hit? Maybe, but I doubt it.

Then again this is Crash. Some part of me wants to make an FE hack that changes all the button names or replaces them with blank labels and give it to him

Yeah, this is my main point. Scale indicates most things, especially if you go into it realizing that the main battle stats are the usual Mt/Hit/Def/Avo/Crit and that most of the time, you don't have a crit chance anyway.

...Well, okay, I was initially confused by the three Avoid stats, but I didn't have a guide or any people to tell me what they meant. Anyone here playing it now has both. (The first one is standard; the third one has double the terrain bonus for long-range attacks. The second one ignores terrain and doesn't usually matter.)

Edited January 14, 2012 by Othin

[CrashGordon94]

Oh, now you're just being ridiculous. Let's say you're using Dean, an Axe Fighter. You hit a button and you're given a menu where you can select a weapon, then select an adjacent enemy. You also get a window showing some numbers like these, the first and third changing depending on his weapon:

23

3

76

No I would've assumed either

Hit

DMG

Crit

or

Crit

DMG

Hit

I wouldn't expect anything else in the combat window and the rest of your deductions are outta my league.

The 3 could easily be a Critical Chance, or perhaps avoid, or perhaps likeliness-to-faint.

Exactly on the first one, I would never guess the others.

Edit: Let's just face it, it would be hard FOR ME and I wouldn't enjoy it even if it wasn't. I MAY reconsider this if a patch is made but I have other potential problems with BS too.

Edited January 14, 2012 by Kirby

[Anouleth]

So you'd assume that Dean, an axe fighter fighting a relatively defense-low enemy (judging from his 3 DEF), has 23 crit and deals only 3 damage?

I mean, I'd assume:

ATK

CRIT

HIT

[Othin]

Alternatively:

http://img18.imageshack.us/img18/1969/aidanoriginalii.png

Shitty editing done to use as an example for discussing stuff for the patch with Banzai, but it works here, too. The database is lacking in images right now, but this or a better version could be used to simply learn or check the stats to remember for later. I know it didn't take long before I had memorized where each stat was.

(Before anyone asks about his Move: he's dismounted.)

Edited January 14, 2012 by Othin

[bottlegnomes]

So you'd assume that Dean, an axe fighter fighting a relatively defense-low enemy (judging from his 3 DEF), has 23 crit and deals only 3 damage?

I mean, I'd assume:

ATK

CRIT

HIT

Same.

Alternatively:

http://img18.imageshack.us/img18/1969/aidanoriginalii.png

Shitty editing done to use as an example for discussing stuff for the patch with Banzai, but it works here, too. The database is lacking in images right now, but this or a better version could be used to simply learn or check the stats to remember for later. I know it didn't take long before I had memorized where each stat was.

(Before anyone asks about his Move: he's dismounted.)

I don't know. Those abbreviations might still be too confusing for crash from what he's said.

[Othin]

Well, okay. You can identify Atk and Hit and the third thing probably won't change based on your decision anyway, so you're probably fine regardless.

Edited January 14, 2012 by Othin

[CrashGordon94]

Alternatively:

http://img18.imageshack.us/img18/1969/aidanoriginalii.png

Shitty editing done to use as an example for discussing stuff for the patch with Banzai, but it works here, too. The database is lacking in images right now, but this or a better version could be used to simply learn or check the stats to remember for later. I know it didn't take long before I had memorized where each stat was.

(Before anyone asks about his Move: he's dismounted.)

Okay, that's definitely too much for me to just guess!

I've really made my mind up, I honestly can't play this until a patch is made and I'm not sure I'd want to even afterwards.

[uguu]

Okay, that's definitely too much for me to just guess!

I've really made my mind up, I honestly can't play this until a patch is made and I'm not sure I'd want to even afterwards.

It's just a normal FE unit information thing (edit: normal GBA FE information thing, even). The only difference is the layout, and the fact that it's all on one screen (edit 2: actually, based on the different separate blocks of stuff, you could probably argue that it technically has three pages like the GBA FE thing, so it's just that some stuff from the weapon screen is located elsewhere). Have you never played Fire Emblem before?

Edited January 15, 2012 by Bonerusa

[Celice]

Normal? You have an item equipped with a weapon, mysterious SshMshlSh at the bottom-right, a Horse stat, Crs (I'm assuming Crossbow), five item slots on the top, and your current weapon statistics like accuracy are directly mixed with your actual stats, not separate. And then that the weapon ranks aren't letters, but numbers, is also a large difference.

Have you ever played Fire Emblem? Berwick isn't FE with a new skin.

[Othin]

Okay, that's definitely too much for me to just guess!

I've really made my mind up, I honestly can't play this until a patch is made and I'm not sure I'd want to even afterwards.

You don't have to guess, because I just posted that.

Normal? You have an item equipped with a weapon, mysterious SshMshlSh at the bottom-right, a Horse stat, Crs (I'm assuming Crossbow), five item slots on the top, and your current weapon statistics like accuracy are directly mixed with your actual stats, not separate. And then that the weapon ranks aren't letters, but numbers, is also a large difference.

Have you ever played Fire Emblem? Berwick isn't FE with a new skin.

A shield, rather. SSh/MSh/LSh are shield skill stats.

Horse isn't a stat; it's a group. The numbers below it all relate to Avoid. (Although it occurs to me suddenly that Horse wasn't actually correct, since he's dismounted.) The things at the top aren't item slots, but a list of available equipment.

Granted, the mixing of core stats and battle stats is a bit odd, and some stuff is different, but it's not like this stuff is completely alien or anything as to be that much more difficult to follow than in FE games. Numbered weapon skills replacing lettered weapon ranks, for example, is new, but it's not something that makes stats any more difficult to keep track of.

Edited January 15, 2012 by Othin

[dondon151]

Guys, it's a well documented fact that Crash is a bigot and an English language supremacist. Let's get over our incredulity and move on.

[uguu]

Normal? You have an item equipped with a weapon, mysterious SshMshlSh at the bottom-right, a Horse stat, Crs (I'm assuming Crossbow), five item slots on the top, and your current weapon statistics like accuracy are directly mixed with your actual stats, not separate. And then that the weapon ranks aren't letters, but numbers, is also a large difference.

Have you ever played Fire Emblem? Berwick isn't FE with a new skin.

Multiple equips is not a thing that is difficult to understand, even if it isn't normal in FE. Weapon ranks being characters isn't horribly difficult to understand either, but I GUESS that you might not be able to get which is what weapon right away. And yes, I mentioned the reorganization of stats. You're overreacting to things I decided were unnotable, but I guess overreacting is a thing Crash does as well~

Also, shields were in FE2, weapon ranks being numbers was in FE3. I don't care that you could only equip a weapon or a shield in FE2, it was still a thing. Likewise, I don't care if you only had a single stat in FE3, it was still a thing.

[Celice]

A shield, rather. SSh/MSh/LSh are shield skill stats.

Horse isn't a stat; it's a group. The numbers below it all relate to Avoid. (Although it occurs to me suddenly that Horse wasn't actually correct, since he's dismounted.) The things at the top aren't item slots, but a list of available equipment.

Granted, the mixing of core stats and battle stats is a bit odd, and some stuff is different, but it's not like this stuff is completely alien or anything as to be that much more difficult to follow than in FE games. Numbered weapon skills replacing lettered weapon ranks, for example, is new, but it's not something that makes stats any more difficult to keep track of.

this is exactly why for some people, having a translation is a necessary aspect to playing. It's not enough that Berwick Saga is kinda-sorta-like Fire Emblem, when it differs in some key ways, just in the stat screen alone. Let alone how you play the game. Unless there is some way for the player like Crash to understand something, a lot of these elements are going to be just plain foreign and not as easily decipherable through trial and error. At least within the Fire Emblem series, the overall method of playing doesn't change, and so you CAN brute force your way through by simple familiarity.

Multiple equips is not a thing that is difficult to understand, even if it isn't normal in FE. Weapon ranks being characters isn't horribly difficult to understand either, but I GUESS that you might not be able to get which is what weapon right away. And yes, I mentioned the reorganization of stats

You know, in various games, when the player is shown a list of five icons, it can mean that they will either choose from that selection, have one chosen randomly for them, or choose one and have it removed, and so on until no icons are left, and then it's refilled. You might as well say it's simple to play Bahamut Lagoon or because you've played Fire Emblem and Final Fantasy, even if you don't know the language at all. If you don't have the prior knowledge to even guess that the bottom list us supposed to be weapon ranks, it may not click right away for you. Being spoiled by the familiarity with Fire Emblem is a HUGE saving grace.

I don't care .... Likewise, I don't care ....

Okay :) Although somehow you've confusing me overreacting with pointing out how easy it is to be confused by the meaning of glyphs whose meaning you have no idea of.

Edited January 15, 2012 by Celice

[CrashGordon94]

Guys, it's a well documented fact that Crash is a bigot and an English language supremacist. Let's get over our incredulity and move on.

this is exactly why for some people, having a translation is a necessary aspect to playing. It's not enough that Berwick Saga is kinda-sorta-like Fire Emblem, when it differs in some key ways, just in the stat screen alone. Let alone how you play the game. Unless there is some way for the player like Crash to understand something, a lot of these elements are going to be just plain foreign and not as easily decipherable through trial and error. At least within the Fire Emblem series, the overall method of playing doesn't change, and so you CAN brute force your way through by simple familiarity.

This too, thank you.

[Othin]

this is exactly why for some people, having a translation is a necessary aspect to playing. It's not enough that Berwick Saga is kinda-sorta-like Fire Emblem, when it differs in some key ways, just in the stat screen alone. Let alone how you play the game. Unless there is some way for the player like Crash to understand something, a lot of these elements are going to be just plain foreign and not as easily decipherable through trial and error. At least within the Fire Emblem series, the overall method of playing doesn't change, and so you CAN brute force your way through by simple familiarity.

There are ways. There are guides with data and explanations and all sorts of things that can be matched up to figure things out, and there are people to ask if there is any confusion. It's simply that the explanations aren't displayed during gameplay. I'm not arguing about the need for such explanations, but simply how they need to be applied.

[CrashGordon94]

And I simply don't want to try it until I can have the translations in the game itself and I'm not going to budge on this. I'd sooner miss out entirely.