MacLovin Posted November 5, 2011 Author Share Posted November 5, 2011 The first part of any fe/pokemon game is a pain in the ass, but this is HELL for a newbie like me. This is the kind of game where Seth and Titania would be welcome. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Celice Posted November 5, 2011 Share Posted November 5, 2011 It eases up once you get used to it. Especially once you start the next chapter. Some players used to the newer games find they have to adjust into this game, as it plays at a different pacing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MacLovin Posted November 5, 2011 Author Share Posted November 5, 2011 I think I would shart in my pants if I tried to do HHM with all units having 0% growths......................., much less S rank any FE and any difficulty. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aethereal Posted November 5, 2011 Share Posted November 5, 2011 Are you counting pre-promotes on their order of appearance? For example, only Harken, Vaida, Jaffar, Pent and Louise are useful in FE7. Marcus, Pent, Hawkeye, Geitz, Harken, Vaida, Jaffar, Louise, Isadora, Renault, Karel, Karla, and Wallace are the prepromotes of FE7. Useful prepromotes of those listed are: Marcus, Pent, Hawkeye, Geitz, Harken, Vaida, Jaffar, Louise, Isadora. Bad prepromotes of those listed are: Renault, Karel, Karla, and Wallace. Nine to Four by my count. In reality, Louise isn't a good unit despite you listing her, but that has a lot more to do with being bow-locked than being a prepromote or a bad sniper. She's better than Wil or Rebecca. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MacLovin Posted November 5, 2011 Author Share Posted November 5, 2011 I would think that Karel is decent in FE7................... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rapier Posted November 5, 2011 Share Posted November 5, 2011 Marcus, Pent, Hawkeye, Geitz, Harken, Vaida, Jaffar, Louise, Isadora, Renault, Karel, Karla, and Wallace are the prepromotes of FE7. Useful prepromotes of those listed are: Marcus, Pent, Hawkeye, Geitz, Harken, Vaida, Jaffar, Louise, Isadora. Bad prepromotes of those listed are: Renault, Karel, Karla, and Wallace. Nine to Four by my count. In reality, Louise isn't a good unit despite you listing her, but that has a lot more to do with being bow-locked than being a prepromote or a bad sniper. She's better than Wil or Rebecca. Marcus is an EXP stealer. He'll get all the exp for himself and benefit less from it if he's used. Isadora is weak, useless, and will most likely be surpassed by the other promoted Cavaliers by the time you get her. Geitz? I've never recruited him to be honest. Anyway, you're right. I won't drag this anymore. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MacLovin Posted November 5, 2011 Author Share Posted November 5, 2011 Units in FE7 only need 15-20 speed to double attack, am I right?. Marcus+speedwing+seths strenght= good unit? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rapier Posted November 5, 2011 Share Posted November 5, 2011 Units in FE7 only need 15-20 speed to double attack, am I right?. Marcus+speedwing+seths strenght= good unit? You clearly didn't read the part on which I said Marcus needs more exp to level, and by doing that he's stealing all the exp to himself. No matter how "good" he is, he isn't an one man army, and the other units surpass him way before getting promoted. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I.M. Gei Posted November 5, 2011 Share Posted November 5, 2011 Marcus is an EXP stealer. He'll get all the exp for himself and benefit less from it if he's used. Isadora is weak, useless, and will most likely be surpassed by the other promoted Cavaliers by the time you get her. Geitz? I've never recruited him to be honest. Anyway, you're right. I won't drag this anymore. I suggest you read this. Courtesy of either Mekkah or Reikken: 6.3 Hogging EXP This point is often used against Seth, Titania and several FE10 units, especially Sothe. They "hog EXP", according to some, and count this as a negative. This couldn't be more wrong - if anything, they are doing the opposite. Let's say we are comparing Seth and Franz. Seth is a L1 Paladin, while Franz a L1 Cavalier. Some people say that Seth should not get many kills - after all, other units gain more EXP and need this EXP more than Seth. What those making this argument do not realize is that this is not a negative, but more of a positive for Seth. Think about it. Seth "not needing EXP" cannot be a negative for him. It's like saying that Guy not needing a Speedwing while Oswin would like one is a negative for Guy. Gaining less EXP is not a negative either, it's an effect caused by having a higher level to begin with. Seth pretty much comes with 1900 more EXP than Franz. Seth's lower EXP gains only affect his own growth. The fact that he doesn't gain as much EXP as Franz does is represented by Seth not having improved as much as Franz by giving them the same amount of kills. When both haven't killed anything, Seth's stats are superior. When Franz has killed 10 enemies, he is probably around L4 or L5, but he's still worse than a base level Seth (with 30 EXP or so). Same after 20, 30, 40, etc enemies. Only when Franz is around L18 while Seth is L2 or L3, Franz is starting to become comparable, while he was definitely worse by a lot. L1 Seth is as good as a L18 Franz off the bat. Franz isn't as good as Seth until he hits L18. After reading this, some would still insist that it's better that Seth does not get any kills. However, that is basically handing Seth another advantage: it's showing that he has a secondary method of being used, and apparently this second method is better (I would argue it is not, but that is another story). If "2nd method Seth" > "1st method Seth", and "1st method Seth" > Franz, then it logically follows that "2nd method Seth" >Franz as well. Of course, it won't show that Seth is better than Franz in the stats now when they are compared when Franz has caught up, but the EXP that Seth would have gotten now went to other units on the team, which is another advantage. Or, in other words, let's compare three teams, and distribute 100 kills among them. Let's say 5 kills is a level on average, except for Seth, who would need 25. Team A has Seth, Arthur, Lute and Vanessa, and each is given equal amount of kills, so 25. Team B has Seth, Arthur, Lute and Vanessa, and Seth is only getting 4 kills, while the other 21 are given away to others, giving each of those 25+7=32 kills. Team C has Franz, Arthur, Lute and Vanessa, and each is given equal amount of kills, so 25. Team A: L2 Seth, L7 Arthur, L6 Lute, L6 Vanessa. Team B: L1 Seth, L8 Arthur, L7 Lute, L7 Vanessa Team C: L6 Franz, L7 Arthur, L6 Lute, L6 Vanessa Clearly Team A and B are both much stronger than team C, and both A and B have Seth. The non-Seth units on team A are equal to the non-Franz units on team C, and the non-Seth units on team B are clearly beating those of team C. This argument goes for any prepromote, or any unit that gains less EXP...or actually, for any unit, really. This even goes for FE6/FE7 Marcus, though it should be added that those have a negative effect on the EXP rank. It also goes for units that hit L20 before promotion, such as Eirika and Ephraim. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aethereal Posted November 5, 2011 Share Posted November 5, 2011 You clearly didn't read the part on which I said Marcus needs more exp to level, and by doing that he's stealing all the exp to himself. No matter how "good" he is, he isn't an one man army, and the other units surpass him way before getting promoted. That's really not true, and you're speaking as if the early game where Marcus is the best unit hands down, and mid game where Marcus is most likely the best unit don't exist. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dondon151 Posted November 5, 2011 Share Posted November 5, 2011 No matter how "good" he is, he isn't an one man army, He actually is a one man army. I suggest you drop this before making a fool out of yourself any further and accept that we're right. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Othin Posted November 5, 2011 Share Posted November 5, 2011 I suggest you drop this before making a fool out of yourself any further and accept that we're right. I don't think this will convince him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dondon151 Posted November 5, 2011 Share Posted November 5, 2011 There's always the 1% chance that it will! But my forum experience suggests that the guy will probably try to get in the last word before abandoning this thread. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Othin Posted November 5, 2011 Share Posted November 5, 2011 I think it's more prudent to let Reikken's math work its magic rather than turning this into unnecessary hostilities just because he had the misfortune to not have been exposed to it before. It's been a few years, so I'm not certain, but I think it was that exact same explanation that persuaded me to abandon a similar mindset back in 2007. It's truly a work of art, and he deserves a chance to reconsider his stance having seen it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MacLovin Posted November 5, 2011 Author Share Posted November 5, 2011 Exp stealing refers to units like Wendy and Sophia, right?? I'm glad I read the tiers lists while lurking as a guest. Is it worth it to train Lex and Azel? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shin Posted November 5, 2011 Share Posted November 5, 2011 Lex is generally very easy to train, due to Elite. He's not a bad father for a few kids and is generally pretty solid. Azel takes a while to get going, but hitting res is nice. He's not a bad parent either, so he's pretty useful. Generally, you can use anyone in FE4. Arden, Dew and Tiltyu may struggle, Dew's not bad once he gets a couple of levels. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rapier Posted November 5, 2011 Share Posted November 5, 2011 He actually is a one man army. I suggest you drop this before making a fool out of yourself any further and accept that we're right. Try using Marcus that much and see if you can try to get through Chapter 24 and forth. Anyway, you're right. But seriously, why so hostile? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MacLovin Posted November 5, 2011 Author Share Posted November 5, 2011 Isn't Dondon the guy who did HHM with 0% growths? You just insulted an expert Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CT075 Posted November 5, 2011 Share Posted November 5, 2011 (edited) Try using Marcus that much and see if you can try to get through Chapter 24 and forth. You're talking to the same guy who did FE7 HHM without growths. I'd think he knows what he's talking about. Edited November 5, 2011 by Kam Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rapier Posted November 5, 2011 Share Posted November 5, 2011 (edited) Isn't Dondon the guy who did HHM with 0% growths? You just insulted an expert HMM WITH 0% GROWTHS, THE FUCK. Ok, now I'll recognize him as the Exodia of FE Character Discussions. Edited November 5, 2011 by Lorddomu Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MacLovin Posted November 5, 2011 Author Share Posted November 5, 2011 ^^ That was an epic post Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dondon151 Posted November 5, 2011 Share Posted November 5, 2011 Anyway, you're right. But seriously, why so hostile? I wouldn't be so hostile if I didn't absolutely know what I was talking about. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
General Horace Posted November 5, 2011 Share Posted November 5, 2011 HHM with 0% growths on it's own isn't too tough, since Marcus's bases carry you till midgame fairly well (especially with the Ch. 15 dragonshield)then you get other prepremoted units with good bases, but the impressive part of dondon's run was the speed in which he completed the chapters at. And TC, Azel can be a pain in the butt to train because he doesn't have a horse (or an enemy phase, really) so he gets left behind. If you get him to promote, he's good though. Lex is Ardan on a horse with a Hero Weapon and elite. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Othin Posted November 5, 2011 Share Posted November 5, 2011 (edited) I wouldn't be so hostile if I didn't absolutely know what I was talking about. Knowing what you're talking about leaves little need for hostility, as it gives you better ways to get your point across. Granted, this is easier said than done. Edited November 5, 2011 by Othin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MacLovin Posted November 5, 2011 Author Share Posted November 5, 2011 Who's Ardan? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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