Someone asked, so here are my thoughts on occupy wall street.

[Celice]

Your ideas will lead to many people living comfortably fat on a couch playing video games their whole life. I think it's better to have a society full of hard workers so that our society can excel in the future.

Get the fuck off this computer, go back to the fields.

[Ring Wraith]

I just got done working 8 hours. I'm going to bed.

I think it's funny that people think you need stuff and money to make you happy, let alone content.

[Esau of Isaac]

Because America is a fat and greedy nation. It's amazing on how little the body can live on. It's also amazing seeing large amounts of entertainment inside of people's homes who have broken their bank trying to pay rent. People would learn to better manage their money.

Ah, yes, the "They have a refrigerator! They must not be poor!" talking point.

They're living with a microwave and a television and everything! These people aren't in poverty, they're clearly living like kings.

Also, huge is relative. Comparing the population of the U.S. to those who would die if the funding was cut, it'd be a relatively small amount.

And it that's what it comes down to, right? As long as it's a "small" number, it's irrelevant to you?

I believe people should have to LIVE with their consequences. I don't want them dead because of them. It's the right to life.

But you just following that stated that they would then have to deal with it if they spent the money they need to survive on drugs, and wait a month. Which would mean they would die.

You should stop bouncing around and just say that you're fine with people dying because you don't want to help them.

The lowest people of the U.S. are actually still really high. They think they have terrible lives because they're comparing it to others who live here.

It's almost like that's how poverty is defined. Crazy.

Is it right that some are born outside of the U.S., uncontrollably? Not by your logic. Yet it's more right to help those who don't need as much help. Our problems are small, the world's are big. Let's lessen the world's problems first. Perfection is unattainable. Things are pretty good right now. Is it better to help those who were born in the pit, or those who jumped in?

I am sure if the United States government were to announce that all of the riches of the topmost echelons of the country were to be funneled into starving nations in Africa you would be all for it.

Like, what are you even trying to say here? That everyone poor in America banished themselves to that situation, and don't even deserve to leave it since someone else is dying in some country elsewhere?

The rich are also paying the majority of taxes, monetarily. If people can survive, I don't see a problem, no.

In terms of percentage of their paycheck, they most certainly are not. The poor are the ones that are shortchanged the absolute most through various fees be they banks or otherwise, not to mention sales tax. No shit the rich are paying the majority of taxes in straight terms, that's because they make hundreds of times more than everyone else. They're the ones in charge of all the money.

It is unfeeling, I won't deny it. However, if we deny logic the country would be a wreck.

Are you serious right now? What do you call the situation the United States is in right now?

Your ideas will lead to many people living comfortably fat on a couch playing video games their whole life. I think it's better to have a society full of hard workers so that our society can excel in the future.

The way you reflect on the suffering of others, I'm not entirely sure the future of this country is one that would excel in anything, in your ideal world.

I think it's funny that people think you need stuff and money to make you happy, let alone content.

Of course you do. That's because you have stuff and money.

Tell me how often you survive from paycheck to paycheck.

Edited November 26, 2011 by Esau of Isaac

[Lord Raven]

The Harvard student was not a point, it was an analogy of how society works.

It was an inaccurate analogy.

In America, there is a path to choose. People have made it out of poverty. Is it difficult? Extremely. Impossible, no.

Why should it be extremely difficult? Why can't it just be... you know... fair?

Nice strawman. Never did I say everybody should go into the same profession. Again, it's stupid to go into something like musical performance and complain about not having funds and not being able to get signed. That's to be expected, and you put yourself there.

I never said you did you twit, I said that if everyone ended up going into a profitable profession or a profession used to success then we'd lose value of that profession. Obviously people will keep on trying to do this and a select few will "follow their hearts," but the fact that society plunges something like that to live a life where you don't have to be worried about living paycheck-to-paycheck is showing a flaw in the way things work

Your ideas will lead to many people living comfortably fat on a couch playing video games their whole life. I think it's better to have a society full of hard workers so that our society can excel in the future. You have to account for the human condition.

How will my ideas lead to such a thing? My ideas are not too dissimilar to basic European socialism (mine are probably a bit more ideal and maybe even communism orientated- but alas, people are too greedy to even follow communism). Frankly, the standard of living in Europe and Canada is far greater than here.

That explains why you're so pissed at me. I'm not going to say anything, since that would just piss you off more. I agree that insurance rates are unnecessarily high and need to drop, along with many other things.

Insurance rates and everything are completely irrelevant to my point. You know how many times I've had to see my dad in the ER? One more heart attack and it would've been over for him, at that point- I was only around 8 years old, you fuck. Insurance rates are completely irrelevant, the fact is that overworking leads to unnecessary stress and many people need to overwork in order to allow their families to have *some* standard of living. They lead to all sorts of health complications that prevent you from being able to work. If my dad had died, the fuck do you think could've happened to my family? If I were still responding to you on this message board, I'd be a hell of a lot angrier that we'd have to live in a society that could not keep my dad alive, and I would be kirking on you far worse than I already am.

And not everyone can afford college. I lucked out with a full ride and good parents, many people at the interview process I was at for my scholarship program needed the scholarship almost as much, if not more, than I did and now they're being denied a decent and affordable education because they don't have the money. This will create a cycle of lacking a college education, and I know for a fact that people tried their asses off in high school- moreso than I did- to try and become apart of the program. And there are a *ridiculous* number of scholarships that are the same exact way, so don't even say it's a unique case, because a bunch of students will have to do well in classes under less than ideal circumstances- except they can't do as well as they'd like because they'll be working! They have no degree of comfort or break, and it will cause their health and mindset to deteriorate! They become unhappy, not because they lack money, but because they lack any degree of comfort to begin with! All they're doing is working nonstop. And apparently they "Chose their own path"... except they worked hard and just got shat on.

I am not ignorant on how much life sucks sometimes. As I mentioned earlier, I full well expect to be in a similar situation. The price of pursuing dreams.

You have some fucking nuts comparing yourself to an immigrant family. Some real fucking nuts. Let me tell you exactly what is wrong with what you are saying here.

1) You are implying that your situations are similar.

They are not at all similar. My dad was thrust into his own path, with an education from a third world country he couldn't move out of and a family of (at the time, 4) to support. Working 2-3 jobs at a time just to keep the family on track, and all while attempting to learn English. You, on the other hand, had all the fucking time in the world to choose your profession in the US, you are fluent in English, and decided to become a music major. Your background already disqualifies you from this comparison you are attempting to make.

Pakistan is a shithole, you know, and he would've rather been here than there just because of how terrible it is over there.

2) You are still standing by the fact that it is our fault that we are in the situation we are now.

Except it's not, and whoever it was called off the investigation after a month with nothing conclusive. Nothing at all conclusive. It wasn't even a fucking electric fire, what could it have been then?

We worked ourselves in this capitalistic economy to death and we continue to do so, and now we're being shit on because it's "our fault" and we're one of the "lazy moocher class." Yeah, my fucking nuts we are. We worked our asses off and have nothing to show for it. Let me tell you something, you *do not* have to work while you are almost terminally ill (my dad is still alive and has beaten the cancer, by the way) and receiving chemotherapy. You are never going to have to work. You will never find yourself in the same predicament, because something you have placed that much dedication towards and seeing it burn down is *not at all* like a musician's profession.

3) You're comparing yourself to a fucking immigrant.

An immigrant will have it way worse off than you. They have far more to worry about, in other words getting deported, getting taken advantage of by insurance companies, getting past the language barrier and finding out how everything works. You, on the other hand, are an idiotic little shit who decided to major in music knowing full well he's not going to be living too comfortably. You will never be as much on the edge as an immigrant will be, considering I doubt you will be spit on by half of our political figures for being terrorists or here to take over our country or some stupid bullshit. There is very little in the hands of personal choice.

I think it's funny that people think you need stuff and money to make you happy, let alone content.

You're fucking serious right? Nobody is arguing you need money for either of those things. People are arguing that if you need to feel comfortable and not constantly edgy- you need a lot of financial stability. I'm sure you've heard stories of people who simply cannot find time to be happy or content because they're worrying so much about finances, how their business is going to work out or how much they'll have to work to even get a little food into their family. There are so many poverty stricken areas that are somewhat reminiscent of the third world that just get swept under the rug by the media and people like you who refuse to acknowledge them. Go to inner city baltimore and see what I mean; the shit over there is so cruel that they base prison funding off of grade reports in the third grade.

EDIT: It was second grade, in fact. Slightly more sickening, but extremely sickening all the same.

Edited November 30, 2011 by Mercenary Raven

[Celice]

I just got done working 8 hours. I'm going to bed.

What fucking trash. No, you go back out, and you continue to work. You don't need to sleep. You need to be productive. What a waste you are, in your own beliefs.

Edited November 26, 2011 by Celice

[Ring Wraith]

Ah, yes, the "They have a refrigerator! They must not be poor!" talking point.

They're living with a microwave and a television and everything! These people aren't in poverty, they're clearly living like kings.

Never said they weren't poor, but compared to the rest of the world they certainly doing pretty good, and there are definitely some things they can cut if they want more. You can't have it all.

And it that's what it comes down to, right? As long as it's a "small" number, it's irrelevant to you?

Not at all. As I said, I'm glad those things are in place, and they are right to be so.

But you just following that stated that they would then have to deal with it if they spent the money they need to survive on drugs, and wait a month. Which would mean they would die.

You should stop bouncing around and just say that you're fine with people dying because you don't want to help them.

Oh, right. Sorry, I was talking about in general. The problem is you can't feed people an infinite amount of money if they're not using it the way it should be used. "Oops, I bought an XBOX 360...I need more money to feed my family!" "Uhh, okay, here you go..." "Oops, just bought Black Ops, Modern Warfare 2, and World at War, I need more money to feed my family!" "Uhh, okay, here you go..."

Seriously, what do you want to happen? It's why food stamps work well.

And I love helping people. I've participated in many food drives, volunteered at the Salvation Army, and hope to one day take homeless into my home and help them get out of poverty.

It's almost like that's how poverty is defined. Crazy.

And so the poverty line keeps getting higher and higher and nobody will every be out of poverty.

I am sure if the United States government were to announce that all of the riches of the topmost echelons of the country were to be funneled into starving nations in Africa you would be all for it.

Probably not all the riches, but yes, I would be for helping out fellow humans who are struggling to stay alive.

Like, what are you even trying to say here? That everyone poor in America banished themselves to that situation, and don't even deserve to leave it since someone else is dying in some country elsewhere?

I'm just saying if you want to help people who are struggling to live, open your eyes to those who don't have anything at all.

In terms of percentage of their paycheck, they most certainly are not. The poor are the ones that are shortchanged the absolute most through various fees be they banks or otherwise, not to mention sales tax. No shit the rich are paying the majority of taxes in straight terms, that's because they make hundreds of times more than everyone else. They're the ones in charge of all the money.

Granted, but who helps more, the completely broke person who puts in two pennies, or the rich guy who gives a million (but still has billions). I do believe we should appreciate the effort they put in.

Are you serious right now? What do you call the situation the United States is in right now?

Hahaha, granted. Regardless, it'd be an even worse situation.

The way you reflect on the suffering of others, I'm not entirely sure the future of this country is one that would excel in anything, in your ideal world.

Aren't you arguing that those who have excelled should not get their full reward?

Of course you do. That's because you have stuff and money.

So, you're admitting that somebody with only the basics for human survival can be happy?

Tell me how often you survive from paycheck to paycheck.

Never. I'm not yet out of my parents house (working a year and finishing generals before going to get my 4 year), and they've both been working since before I was born, so I've been very blessed that they've been able to provide for me. Talk to me in a few years...

However, just because I haven't been in the situation doesn't mean I'll magically agree with you. You two seem to think that if I wasn't ignorant of how bad people have it, I would agree with you, which simply isn't true. There's more here than just feeling bad for people (and if you're going to feel bad for somebody, look beyond our boarders).

It was an inaccurate analogy.

Explain why, please. And remember, I never had a problem with people who have had unfortunate circumstances landing them in poverty.

Why should it be extremely difficult? Why can't it just be... you know... fair?

How do you propose we go about that? To make things totally fair, we'd have to give everybody the same rate of money for whatever job they do and for however long they work. Additionally, we better pull kids out of their families and send them to boarding school, because if somebody has better parents than another it's not fair. Let's give everybody the same teacher, so one doesn't have an advantage over somebody with a bad teacher. While we're at it, we better make sure there are no naturally more intelligent people. That's an unfair advantage. We better make everybody look the same too, better looking people can get certain jobs easier.

I never said you did you twit, I said that if everyone ended up going into a profitable profession or a profession used to success then we'd lose value of that profession. Obviously people will keep on trying to do this and a select few will "follow their hearts," but the fact that society plunges something like that to live a life where you don't have to be worried about living paycheck-to-paycheck is showing a flaw in the way things work

How is that a flaw? If people don't want to live from paycheck-to-paycheck, they should probably have gotten a higher paying job, or cut their other expenses some. It's pretty simple.

Insurance rates and everything are completely irrelevant to my point. You know how many times I've had to see my dad in the ER? One more heart attack and it would've been over for him, at that point- I was only around 8 years old, you fuck. Insurance rates are completely irrelevant, the fact is that overworking leads to unnecessary stress and many people need to overwork in order to allow their families to have *some* standard of living. They lead to all sorts of health complications that prevent you from being able to work. If my dad had died, the fuck do you think could've happened to my family? If I were still responding to you on this message board, I'd be a hell of a lot angrier that we'd have to live in a society that could not keep my dad alive, and I would be kirking on you far worse than I already am.

And not everyone can afford college. I lucked out with a full ride and good parents, many people at the interview process I was at for my scholarship program needed the scholarship almost as much, if not more, than I did and now they're being denied a decent and affordable education because they don't have the money. This will create a cycle of lacking a college education, and I know for a fact that people tried their asses off in high school- moreso than I did- to try and become apart of the program. And there are a *ridiculous* number of scholarships that are the same exact way, so don't even say it's a unique case, because a bunch of students will have to do well in classes under less than ideal circumstances- except they can't do as well as they'd like because they'll be working! They have no degree of comfort or break, and it will cause their health and mindset to deteriorate! They become unhappy, not because they lack money, but because they lack any degree of comfort to begin with! All they're doing is working nonstop. And apparently they "Chose their own path"... except they worked hard and just got shat on.

You have some fucking nuts comparing yourself to an immigrant family. Some real fucking nuts.

And this is why I should have kept my mouth shut, and why I'm going to do so. I'm sorry for the hardships you've gone through. I never compared my situation to yours, and if you took it that way, I apologize, it was not my intent.

Let me tell you exactly what is wrong with what you are saying here.

1) You are implying that your situations are similar.

They are not at all similar. My dad was thrust into his own path, with an education from a third world country he couldn't move out of and a family of (at the time, 4) to support. Working 2-3 jobs at a time just to keep the family on track, and all while attempting to learn English. You, on the other hand, had all the fucking time in the world to choose your profession in the US, you are fluent in English, and decided to become a music major. Your background already disqualifies you from this comparison you are attempting to make.

Pakistan is a shithole, you know, and he would've rather been here than there just because of how terrible it is over there.

I apologize. Comparing my situation to your dad's situation was not accurate. It's exactly why I think that we should help out other countries.

2) You are still standing by the fact that it is our fault that we are in the situation we are now.

Except it's not, and whoever it was called off the investigation after a month with nothing conclusive. Nothing at all conclusive. It wasn't even a fucking electric fire, what could it have been then?

We worked ourselves in this capitalistic economy to death and we continue to do so, and now we're being shit on because it's "our fault" and we're one of the "lazy moocher class." Yeah, my fucking nuts we are. We worked our asses off and have nothing to show for it. Let me tell you something, you *do not* have to work while you are almost terminally ill (my dad is still alive and has beaten the cancer, by the way) and receiving chemotherapy. You are never going to have to work. You will never find yourself in the same predicament, because something you have placed that much dedication towards and seeing it burn down is *not at all* like a musician's profession.

There is no correct response to this. If I argue it, you'll just get more angry (a position I don't like putting you in and never meant to), and if I concede the point, I'm going against what I believe.

3) You're comparing yourself to a fucking immigrant.

An immigrant will have it way worse off than you. They have far more to worry about, in other words getting deported, getting taken advantage of by insurance companies, getting past the language barrier and finding out how everything works. You, on the other hand, are an idiotic little shit who decided to major in music knowing full well he's not going to be living too comfortably. You will never be as much on the edge as an immigrant will be, considering I doubt you will be spit on by half of our political figures for being terrorists or here to take over our country or some stupid bullshit. There is very little in the hands of personal choice.

Same as point one.

You're fucking serious right? Nobody is arguing you need money for either of those things. People are arguing that if you need to feel comfortable and not constantly edgy- you need a lot of financial stability. I'm sure you've heard stories of people who simply cannot find time to be happy or content because they're worrying so much about finances, how their business is going to work out or how much they'll have to work to even get a little food into their family.

So they need money so they can be comfortable so they can be happy or content...

Also, I'm not entirely sure Esau didn't say that you didn't need money for those.

There are so many poverty stricken areas that are somewhat reminiscent of the third world that just get swept under the rug by the media and people like you who refuse to acknowledge them. Go to inner city baltimore and see what I mean; the shit over there is so cruel that they base prison funding zone off of grade reports in the third grade.

As I said, we should help those people out.

[Esau of Isaac]

Never said they weren't poor, but compared to the rest of the world they certainly doing pretty good, and there are definitely some things they can cut if they want more. You can't have it all.

What can they cut if they want more? Please, do tell what all the poor people of the world could lose to be in an even better position than they are now.

I would find it pretty amusing for you to walk up to impoverished families and let them know that they're blessed compared to the rest of the world. I'm sure the first thing they think after working two jobs with just enough time to sleep and get back to work is "Goddamn. I feel so lucky compared to someone living in an anarchistic state!"

Not at all. As I said, I'm glad those things are in place, and they are right to be so.

This is utterly contradictory to the rest of your argument, where you claim people should be held accountable for their actions.

Oh, right. Sorry, I was talking about in general. The problem is you can't feed people an infinite amount of money if they're not using it the way it should be used. "Oops, I bought an XBOX 360...I need more money to feed my family!" "Uhh, okay, here you go..." "Oops, just bought Black Ops, Modern Warfare 2, and World at War, I need more money to feed my family!" "Uhh, okay, here you go..."

Seriously, what do you want to happen? It's why food stamps work well.

And I love helping people. I've participated in many food drives, volunteered at the Salvation Army, and hope to one day take homeless into my home and help them get out of poverty.

Again, this disagrees with your earlier argument stating that people should have to deal with the consequences of their choices.

And so the poverty line keeps getting higher and higher and nobody will every be out of poverty.

Do you know anything about how charitable donations work when it comes to destabilized nations? Do you think all the dollars, or even any really, go to the poor and unfortunate you're aiming for a majority of the time?

And why are you supporting funneling money out of the country when it's already in the direst straits its been in since the worst economic collapse it's ever faced? The entire world ecnonomy's blown up, don't you think the money could be better spent, you know, stabilizing the situation the country's in now?

Probably not all the riches, but yes, I would be for helping out fellow humans who are struggling to stay alive.

Oh good. Then you'd be fine with the money of the richest being funneled towards the poorest of this country.

I'm just saying if you want to help people who are struggling to live, open your eyes to those who don't have anything at all.

And I'm just saying that it's juvenile to switch focus from the impoverished here because someone several thousands of miles away in a third world country is suffering. You want to help them? Peachy. But acting as though it's as simple as the country giving a bunch of dollars to everyone there and raising their quality of life to our levels is silly. It just doesn't work that way.

Granted, but who helps more, the completely broke person who puts in two pennies, or the rich guy who gives a million (but still has billions). I do believe we should appreciate the effort they put in.

The completely poor, again. They spend the entirety of their paycheck, since they have to in order to survive. They're actually consuming a dickload, compared to a rich bastard that just takes another hundred million and stores it away.

I'd appreciate the rich if they'd stop saving obscene amounts of money just for the fuck of it.

Hahaha, granted. Regardless, it'd be an even worse situation.

How? You want to use logic? Here's some logic: Consumers are afraid to spend, many because they have no money and are deep in debt. Investors are afraid to spend because consumers don't want to buy. The foreign sector's a net loss, especially in America. Who does this mean will need to spend to assist? The government. And who do they need to assist, the rich who are sitting on millions of dollars and will hold the money they are given? Or the poor, who spend the entirety of their paycheck, which they survive on?

Aren't you arguing that those who have excelled should not get their full reward?

I am arguing that the reward given to those most rich is not what they deserve. CEO's make hundreds and hundreds of times that those on the salesfloor do. I make less than amazing pay where I'm at, at $10,500 yearly. Michael Duke, the CEO of Walmart, makes $35,000,000. Every day I come home from work I am exhausted. I stack pallets, scrub and buff floors, clean bathrooms, paint walls, shine elevators...I do pretty much everything but stock. And then sometimes I stock. So if I'm tired enough to collapse into my bed right when I get home, Mikey Duke must get hospitalized often since he makes three thousand times more than I do. According to his pay he works more than I do yearly in an hour.

If you argue anything stating that the amount of money everyone makes relative to their work is fair, you are an utter idiot.

So, you're admitting that somebody with only the basics for human survival can be happy?

No...I didn't say that anywhere in there. I didn't even intimate that.

But yes. I do think people that are barely scraping by can be happy. I also think that people with severe cases of leprosy can be happy. That doesn't mean that they wouldn't be happier without dying a slow, agonizing death.

Never. I'm not yet out of my parents house (working a year and finishing generals before going to get my 4 year), and they've both been working since before I was born, so I've been very blessed that they've been able to provide for me. Talk to me in a few years...

However, just because I haven't been in the situation doesn't mean I'll magically agree with you. You two seem to think that if I wasn't ignorant of how bad people have it, I would agree with you, which simply isn't true. There's more here than just feeling bad for people (and if you're going to feel bad for somebody, look beyond our boarders).

It is true. If you were were struggling to scrape by you wouldn't be able to hold your ideology anymore. You'd realize the innate flaws in your viewpoint, and would adjust accordingly.

Unless you were, like, the Uncle Ruckus of economics.

How do you propose we go about that? To make things totally fair, we'd have to give everybody the same rate of money for whatever job they do and for however long they work.

Why the hell would every job have to pay the exact same to be fair? Is that how you interpret the word "fair"? Seriously?

Additionally, we better pull kids out of their families and send them to boarding school, because if somebody has better parents than another it's not fair. Let's give everybody the same teacher, so one doesn't have an advantage over somebody with a bad teacher. While we're at it, we better make sure there are no naturally more intelligent people. That's an unfair advantage. We better make everybody look the same too, better looking people can get certain jobs easier.

Wow. Just, wow.

How is that a flaw? If people don't want to live from paycheck-to-paycheck, they should probably have gotten a higher paying job, or cut their other expenses some. It's pretty simple.

You really have absolutely no clue how the job market works, do you?

I also love that you're saying someone who is living paycheck to paycheck in poverty should cut expenses some. You know what poverty is defined as for a four-person family? $22,350. What do you expect a family of four to cut to live off of this much comfortably? I'm genuinely interested, here.

Edited November 27, 2011 by Esau of Isaac

[eclipse]

I also love that you're saying someone who is living paycheck to paycheck in poverty should cut expenses some. You know what poverty is defined as for a four-person family? $22,350. What do you expect a family of four to cut to live off of this much comfortably? I'm genuinely interested, here.

And this is how it was computed

Hawaii, for example, has a higher cost of living, so the poverty threshold for four is slightly higher. The income that's listed is comfortably doable for one person; I can't see how a family of four can live on that.

[Phoenix Wright]

I'm cool with that being the goal, I just really don't think they need the money taken from the rich to do it. It'd be better put to getting this country out of debt.

Huh. Mind pointing me to a reliable source that shows that they want a reallocation of money?

Unless you mean in taxes--in which I still disagree. We need more tax revenue from the people that are getting higher profits.

http://www.businessinsider.com/what-wall-street-protesters-are-so-angry-about-2011-10?op=1

[Lord Raven]

Explain why, please. And remember, I never had a problem with people who have had unfortunate circumstances landing them in poverty.

Because the amount of people that kill their roommate compared to the amount of people that do what the initial situation does is extremely tiny.

How do you propose we go about that? To make things totally fair, we'd have to give everybody the same rate of money for whatever job they do and for however long they work. Additionally, we better pull kids out of their families and send them to boarding school, because if somebody has better parents than another it's not fair. Let's give everybody the same teacher, so one doesn't have an advantage over somebody with a bad teacher. While we're at it, we better make sure there are no naturally more intelligent people. That's an unfair advantage. We better make everybody look the same too, better looking people can get certain jobs easier.

Black and white thinking at its finest. That is a logical fallacy, because fairness is not equal to making everyone the exact same.

How is that a flaw? If people don't want to live from paycheck-to-paycheck, they should probably have gotten a higher paying job, or cut their other expenses some. It's pretty simple.

You make it sound easy as shit to do all of those things. Sometimes those expenses end up being something like insurance, and getting another job that pays higher is luck dependent. People don't realize when they're going through college what will be profitable, and that could change four years from when they start college too, which is another luck factor to keep in mind.

And this is why I should have kept my mouth shut, and why I'm going to do so. I'm sorry for the hardships you've gone through. I never compared my situation to yours, and if you took it that way, I apologize, it was not my intent.

You full well fucking did.

I apologize. Comparing my situation to your dad's situation was not accurate. It's exactly why I think that we should help out other countries.

So society be damned when it comes to helping individual people, but society be the savior of other countries?

There is no correct response to this. If I argue it, you'll just get more angry (a position I don't like putting you in and never meant to), and if I concede the point, I'm going against what I believe.

Then argue it instead of being a little pussy.

So they need money so they can be comfortable so they can be happy or content...

Also, I'm not entirely sure Esau didn't say that you didn't need money for those.

I am not Esau.

And yes, it's sad that we live in a society where the majority of people need to squeeze every little bit of money they can get if they want to get by; being comfortable is mutually exclusive to living paycheck-to-paycheck.

Edited November 30, 2011 by Mercenary Raven

[Anti-Social Meta Knight]

I was about to contribute to this thread, but then Merc said everything I would have said anyway, and then some.

So I'll just go back to lurking farming cabbages like the destitute peasant I am.