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ITT: I make a tier list of Monopoly Properties


Caliban of Sycorax
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I'm assuming 4 player games. That's pretty much the standard.

EDIT: We're also assuming competent players, not people who try to spite you and make you lose even if it takes them down. Like people who give others all their properties just because you won't accept a shitty deal.

Edited by Bblader
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But on the flipside, you can trade it away for something valuable.

Exactly. Owning a Dark Blue is extremely valuable, because even competent players want to complete the Dark Blues quickly and start making bank. But if you're sitting with two Oranges and/or Light Blues and you need the third, getting both of those for a Dark Blue is not only an even trade money-wise, but it's valuable for you.

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Another interesting quirk. Thanks to the fact that it only has two properties, the Dark Blues are actually less expensive to develop than the Greens, and there is a chance card that sends one straight to Boardwalk.

Also, a full set of Railroads can bleed many people of quite a bit of cash. 4 spaces, a few cards that redirect someone to one of them, and an entire set is 200$ per landing. Expect people to land on them often.

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Another interesting quirk. Thanks to the fact that it only has two properties, the Dark Blues are actually less expensive to develop than the Greens, and there is a chance card that sends one straight to Boardwalk.

Also, a full set of Railroads can bleed many people of quite a bit of cash. 4 spaces, a few cards that redirect someone to one of them, and an entire set is 200$ per landing. Expect people to land on them often.

I agree, but they are still fairly expensive to build on. ~$200 per house IIRC. So you're still shelling out almost $2000 for them. Nonetheless, the payback is worth it if you get high traffic. The greens in my mind are useless because it's hard to get all three especially when they're so damn expensive. And then building on them is even worse. Greens, in my mind, have no value except in trades when you want other, better, properties.

This is why I've put the Railroads at the top. There's a lot of traffic to each, especially with Chance cards, and the money is worth it. What is your opinion on the order?

I don't like Monopoly, Top Shop is where it's at.

Get away from me.

That's nice.

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Because not only are the properties an absolute pain to acquire, they're also very expensive to build on, and getting maximum result on them is very hard to do. It's easier to get Hotels on the Dark Blues. Not to mention traffic to that area is fairly low, because people are usually stopped by Go to Jail or bypass it entirely.

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I actually had a book that broke down the exact statistics of Monopoly and was quite clear on what the best properties were. I don't have it now so I'm vague on the specific numbers, but...

Statistically, the Oranges are by far the most profitable on the board and should be top of Top Tier because math says they are. They're the most frequently landed-on (as a group), they're right outside of Jail within an average roll, and they are immensely profitable with only three houses on each property. Second is the Reds because they're nearly as frequently landed-on as a group, are worth more rent, and Illinois is the most statistically landed-on property in the game. Then Light Blues. I don't have anything bad to say about the Light Blues, they're just not quite as good as the Oranges and Reds (but cheaper to build up).

Top Tier is Orange > Red > Light Blue. Nothing else even belongs in that tier. Light Blue might not even belong there. Never allow anyone to have a monopoly on the Oranges or Reds unless that very same trade gives you the other one. Illinois should be top of Top Tier, then all the Oranges, then the other two Reds.

I know you're keeping property groups together, but Park Place is at least a tier worse than Boardwalk. They're both statistically low roll chances to land on (because people Go To Jail a lot and never get near Go), but there's Advance to Boardwalk to make up for it. Park Place has nothing of the sort. Boardwalk should be over the Dark Reds (which should be under the Reds, WTF), Park Place under them.

Also I'd argue Yellow is undertiered compared to Dark Purple. Generally speaking the Go corner is the least-traversed in the game as people will be bouncing to Jail a lot and spend most of their time between Jail and Go To Jail. Yellow is the worst of the four property groups on that half of the board, but it's still a good property group and it's a great choice if people are cagey about letting anyone have the Oranges or Reds. If you can trick someone into dealing you a monopoly on the Yellows while the better groups are locked down, you'll make a tidy amount.

Green totally is the worst group on the board though. You'd be better off giving somebody a monopoly on that for Baltic and Mediterranean, at least they're dirt cheap. No arguments for Bottom Tier.

Also what scrub builds hotels? Never build hotels. Hotels are the biggest scam in the game. Returning 12 houses to the bank you might as well put a giant TAKE MY MONEY sign on your chest. There are only 32 houses in play in the game, and once they're all built no more can be built unless some are returned to the bank through mortgages or building hotels. This is a rule. A 3-property monopoly can suck up more than a third of the houses that exist, and getting those is so immensely beneficial if you're the first person to get a monopoly that it's even worth ignoring a three-house profitability point to deny everyone else houses. If you get two three-property monopolies to four houses each, you just won the game short of a Hail Mary hotel blitz on Boardwalk (which only works if the dark blue owner gets all eight remaining houses) because no one else will ever be able to build up their properties.

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By the way, you can kind of see this in effect on this page. Look especially at "Expected Number of Opponent Rolls to Recoup Incremental Cost." One thing you'll notice is the huge profitability jump at three houses and how quickly the Oranges recoup their investment cost at that breakpoint. Also how little you gain going from 4 Houses -> Hotels. Also how deceptively bad Mediterranean is, and how much better Boardwalk is than Park Place at three houses (and indeed, how much better it is at turning a profit than every space but New York).

Note also how the Railroads are low-income, but remarkably profitable if you own them all. If someone is foolish enough to give you all the Railroads, take 'em; that money may not seem like much, but you'll get back whatever you paid quick. Also note what an enormous rip the Utilities are unless you own both, and then they're not as good as just about any property with two houses (which isn't even when developed properties get profitable).

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I'll be honest and say that I grouped the properties together based on color; I should've just done colors instead of properties. Well, minus the Railroads and Utilities because I actually gave them a specific order.

Top Tier is Orange > Red > Light Blue. Nothing else even belongs in that tier. Light Blue might not even belong there. Never allow anyone to have a monopoly on the Oranges or Reds unless that very same trade gives you the other one. Illinois should be top of Top Tier, then all the Oranges, then the other two Reds

Light Blue belongs in Top in my mind because of how easy it is to build up on them. In fact, it's easier to get than Orange as well. People are more willing to trade Light Blues over Oranges merely because of the lower property value. Not to mention Light Blues still have high traffic. For everyone not going to Jail, Light Blue has the best possibility of being landed on coming around the Go.

As for Reds, I agree, they deserve higher. I think my reasoning was that they're kind of expensive to build up but they deserve better than the Purples, at least. I'd like to see more argument for them being over Light Blues but for now they'll go to the bottom of Top.

Also I'd argue Yellow is undertiered compared to Dark Purple. Generally speaking the Go corner is the least-traversed in the game as people will be bouncing to Jail a lot and spend most of their time between Jail and Go To Jail. Yellow is the worst of the four property groups on that half of the board, but it's still a good property group and it's a great choice if people are cagey about letting anyone have the Oranges or Reds. If you can trick someone into dealing you a monopoly on the Yellows while the better groups are locked down, you'll make a tidy amount.

Building on Yellow isn't easy. Getting all three properties is hard because trading is tricky, unless you've got some Greens or Dark Blues to spare. The money that has to go into them is also not worth it, especially when you can build on the Dark Blues for around the same amount of money and make much more.

Also what scrub builds hotels? Never build hotels. Hotels are the biggest scam in the game. Returning 12 houses to the bank you might as well put a giant TAKE MY MONEY sign on your chest.

I agree, the more recent computerized ones however tend to automatically build hotels once four houses are reached. Since they're the highest property value I also am using them into account with the tier list.

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Light Blue belongs in Top in my mind because of how easy it is to build up on them. In fact, it's easier to get than Orange as well. People are more willing to trade Light Blues over Oranges merely because of the lower property value. Not to mention Light Blues still have high traffic. For everyone not going to Jail, Light Blue has the best possibility of being landed on coming around the Go.

As for Reds, I agree, they deserve higher. I think my reasoning was that they're kind of expensive to build up but they deserve better than the Purples, at least. I'd like to see more argument for them being over Light Blues but for now they'll go to the bottom of Top.

The argument is mainly outside the math, as the long-term math favors the Reds. The expected income from a three-house Light Blue is ~$6 per opponent roll, or ~$12 per opponent roll at hotels. They pay off in about 11-12 opponent rolls. Reds also pay off in ~11 rolls (and Kentucky pays off in only 8.5), but the expected income from them is ~$19 per opponent roll at three houses, or ~$28 per opponent roll at hotels. That's roughly 3x the real income every opponent turn, which in a 4-person game means the difference between $36 every time your turn passes and $84 at hotels.

Also, just in terms of probabilities, note that the Light Blues are actually fairly unlikely to be landed on at all. The highest-probability chance of landing on a Light Blue, Vermont, is only the 28th/29th most likely over time. I attribute this mainly to being before Jail; the only things that get you to the Light Blues after the first turn are actually making it to Go (unlikely, strangely enough) and not being too overshot so that you skip them, or Advance to Go or Advance to Boardwalk cards, which make landing on the Light Blues a near certainty on the next roll. By contrast, Kentucky and Indiana are in the top 15, and discounting Jail, Illinois is THE most frequented property in the game, period. The Oranges are better because they're basically all Top 10 frequent properties and cheaper than the Reds, but in comparison I'd say the Light Blues come out a bit behind.

What saves them is the price; they're the second-cheapest group and the cheapest with three properties. Now the argument you're making is that it's cheap and easy to build on them, and while that is true, note how quickly the Reds become profitable (nearly as fast, even slightly faster than Light Blues). It's almost the same. So the only factor here is really initial outlay; that is, do you have the money to actually develop the Reds to three houses vs. the Light Blues? I think we'd agree it's trivial to get the Light Blues up, but is Red that much worse?

Light Blues cost $420 to buy, Reds cost $680. Auctions could change the price of either but let's assume that isn't the case. $680 is not three times the cost, yet it returns three times the profit of the Light Blues. Houses on the Light Blues are $50 each and $150 each on the Reds. So if we got to three houses on all three properties (the most profitable margin, generally), the Light Blues cost us $870 and the Reds cost us $2030.

So really, there are two issues where I might be able to see the Light Blues beating the Reds, namely:

  • When you don't have $2030 to outlay on houses.
  • When the game will be over before both properties actually turn a profit (i.e. you're burning your own money to force your remaining opponents into bankruptcy to win, so you don't care about the profit).

In any situation where a profit is actually turned, the Reds immediately become three times better the instant your outlay is paid off. And while over long periods of time the Light Blues are competitive, the fact is that the card which takes a person to Illinois is a certainty at some point and if someone draws that card when you have three houses on Illinois, you make immediate bank (this is essentially the entire point of a Boardwalk Hotel gamble, you know the card will come up and that one hit will either get you all your money back or knock an opponent out of the game outright). There's no such certainty for the Light Blues, and if opponents hit a long stretch where they stay mostly between/in Jail and Go To Jail, your Light Blues won't turn up much.

In a meta-gaming sense, you could perhaps argue the intangible strategic benefit of a Light Blue monopoly: You can slap 3 more houses down to bring each property to 4 for a measly $150 more, and deny other players 40% of the game's houses. To do the same with the Reds is a $450 outlay. The hit to your profitability is not as bad as with the Reds or even the Oranges from doing this, because houses on the Light Blues are dirt cheap.

Building on Yellow isn't easy. Getting all three properties is hard because trading is tricky, unless you've got some Greens or Dark Blues to spare. The money that has to go into them is also not worth it, especially when you can build on the Dark Blues for around the same amount of money and make much more.

I suppose I can see that, but ultimately I think Park Place drags Boardwalk down. It's like Baltic/Mediterranean, one of the two properties is vastly more valuable than the other. Tiered individually, Boardwalk goes way way up. But together... eh. Yellows aren't too awful on average. Their income averages to about the same as the Reds and they turn a profit in about the same time at 3 houses. They cost more overall since they're pricier properties, and they're way too expensive to take to hotels, but if left at 3 houses they're a very competitive Upper-Mid/Low-High kind of grouping that's achievable through trading, as people will be coy about trading the properties that are better than they are. Also note that as much as Advance to Illinois helps the Reds, it helps the Yellows too; there's like a 14% chance you'll go to Marvin Gardens from Illinois on your next roll, so what Illinois reaps from its card, the Yellows siphon off residually by being within an expected roll of it. Also they are the group with the best typo, and typos are an awesome intangible because you can show how smart you are when someone lands in Marvin Gardens by pointing out that the actual street in Atlantic City is Marven Gardens, and also that Marven Gardens is neither a street nor in Atlantic City.

I agree, the more recent computerized ones however tend to automatically build hotels once four houses are reached. Since they're the highest property value I also am using them into account with the tier list.

What about the point that three houses > four houses or hotels, in terms of return on investment? The only real logic for building past that is to create a house shortage. Hotels are for Boardwalk gambles, basically, and Boardwalk is actually most profitable at 3 houses too (where it becomes better than everything but New York, wow!).

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I don't really understand the logic behind light blues being good because people are more willing to trade them. That's sort of begging the question. If people knew that light blues were good, then they wouldn't trade them!

In my opinion, at least, the presence of jail should really skew the list in favor of oranges, reds, and yellows (to a lesser extent). Any player has a 14/36 (~39%) chance of going straight to an orange property out of jail (assuming he stays in for 3 turns and has to bail out at the end, or is just visiting). It's a 1/3 chance of going to an orange property out of jail if he gets out by rolling doubles (6, 8). If you disregard the probability of landing on Chance or Community Chest and drawing a card that sends the player elsewhere, he has a 390/1296 (~30%) chance of landing on a red property out of jail after 2 rolls. There's also the "go to Illinois Ave." Chance card to consider.

The probability of rolling 16, 17, or 19 (yellows) after 2 or 3 rolls is not terrible, either.

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Well, I can see his point. The Light Blues are statistically a very sustainable group and $50 houses means it costs only $600 to eat up a ton of houses early in the game, which can blunt the fangs of some of the game's nastier properties. If I have 4 houses each on the Light Blues and everyone else squabbles over houses to the point that only a handful of properties reach the 3 house mark, I'm in pretty good shape. The Light Blues are also excellent as one monopoly out of at least two, where they cheaply help build up the other one. Of course, one could argue that the Oranges or Reds can win the game for a player all by themselves, and that's a fair point and a knock against Light Blue.

However as you've said, Oranges are simply incredibly likely to be landed on coming out of Jail, and an enormous amount of the time some player is leaving Jail on a given turn. The flipside to other people getting tagged by the Oranges is the intangible "safety net" when you own them. More often than not, leaving Jail will put you either on one of your own properties (which are of course safe) or Community Chest, which is skewed toward positive benefits generally. A 6/7/8 (the most likely rolls on any given turn) out of Jail would then all be safe. Though you'd then turn the corner into the Reds and Yellows, which might be risky if you don't own them. But at least you know when those assholes go to Jail, they've got to pay the toll on the way out.

Overall I'd say it's hard to dispute the Oranges as the best. $560 to buy (vs. $420 or $680 for Light Blues/Reds) and $900 to develop to 3 houses (vs. $450 or $1350). Almost three times the income of Light Blues at that point and competitive with Reds (but $450 cheaper to develop), but Oranges are the most landed-on property group in the game and the most consistently landed-on because of Jail. At 3 houses they recoup their investment faster than any properties in the game (except St. James, which is fourth behind Boardwalk). Also, since good players know how valuable an Orange is, they have high trade value even if you're not going for the monopoly. If you had a critical Orange, you might be able to get the Light Blues and most of the Yellows out of it, and that would be a competitive pair.

Incidentally, and this is just psychology, but math says you're actually better off not being a dick about trading and that it's almost always worthwhile to trade your opponent something that completes a monopoly if you get a monopoly as well, even if your monopoly isn't as good as his is. It's a game theory thing: His completion of a monopoly hurts you, but his monopoly and your monopoly hurt the other players in the game more than you are hurt (since, after all, you just got a monopoly yourself). The more players there are in the game, the better off both parties are from trading, and if your goal is to win the game by bankrupting everyone else it's worth it to take a risk that you can beat the guy you're trading with while knowing you're going to beat the other 2-6 guys because they're going to give the two of you all of their money eventually.

Also, not being a dick on trading is critical when someone goes bankrupt, as they may spite-trade their properties to your opponent for a pittance if you were an asshole to them. But you can't really tier properties based on that, although I could see a Boardwalk Hotel payday leading to a spite-trade more than a death-by-thousand-cuts bankrupting via the Oranges.

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IMO Mayfair/Park Lane needs to drop, despite the huge reward they may give, the sheer cost of fully building them up often outweighs the benefit, especially considering they, along with the browns are one of the least likely properties to land on.

Light-blues need to drop and Orange needs to rise, Oranges are the single most landed upon space in a normal game simply because they are directly outside Gaol, and, come late game everyone wants to be in Gaol. There's no reason for Light-blue to be on top besides their price.

Why is Green low tier? They are pricey, but have a reasonable return, usually better than Blue.

Edited by Iced
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Why is Green low tier? They are pricey, but have a reasonable return, usually better than Blue.

That's exactly why they are low tier. They cost the most to build up out of all the monopolies, and aren't terribly likely to be landed on. And the payoff for the cost is not great. Blues cost less overall, and one of them has a chance card for it.

The cost to build them will likely leave you in a compromised position anyhow. Considering the $200 per house, it starts getting expensive, possibly leaving you without much money, and when you start landing on the better properties (Oranges/Light Blues/Reds), which happens far more frequently, it's harder to build them up.

Or something to that effect.

IMO Mayfair/Park Lane needs to drop, despite the huge reward they may give, the sheer cost of fully building them up often outweighs the benefit, especially considering they, along with the browns are one of the least likely properties to land on.

They cost a lot? Wait, remind me what some of the others cost: (let's assume base costs only)

Color        No. of houses: 0    1    2    3    4    5 
Brown                       120  220  320  420  520  620
Light Blue                  320  470  620  870  1020 1170
Light Purple                440  740  1040 1340 1640 1940
Orange                      560  860  1160 1460 1760 2060
Red                         680  1130 1580 2030 2480 2930
Yellow                      800  1250 1700 2150 2600 3050
Green                       920  1520 2120 2720 3320 3920
Dark Blue                   750  1150 1550 1950 2350 2750

^ Here's something I prepared earlier (just then, but that's aside the point).

So, Dark Blues cost less than Yellow and Green at all levels. Arguable that they beat Yellow. But stomps Green, easily. Then they cost less than Red from 2 houses onwards (but Red wins that, easily, due to better exposure).

I also vaguely recall (but I could be wrong) that greens were one of the least landed on sets. I don't remember exactly, though.

tl;dr: Greens are fine where they are, because of cost and (a lack of) payoff.

Edited by Manix
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Greens are actually landed on more often than even the Light Blues, but notably less than the Yellows (and way less than Oranges/Reds). They're middle of the pack.

At optimal numbers (3 houses), you get about the same return (slightly more) as the Yellows with three houses or the Reds with four houses. But Reds/Yellows cost less per house, so for the price of getting the Greens to three houses the last property of the Yellows could have four, which actually makes the raw income better (but it's not worth it as the cost to go to four houses on Yellows or Greens is prohibitive). Three houses on Greens take longer to pay off than any property that isn't Park Place, and at hotels they're almost ludicrously expensive and unlikely to ever make a return on investment. Now, admittedly, at hotel levels they might be better "kill squares" than Boardwalk, given that there'd be more of them and the chance of hitting one is so good. But Boardwalk is cheaper to build up and Advance to Boardwalk essentially becomes a "you lose" card for any opponent who draws it (and someone will, eventually).

The problem with the Dark Blues is that for all that they offer (Boardwalk Hotel Kill Square, cheaper than Greens for better outcomes), Park Place is a terrible square that drags Boardwalk down. It's like how Mediterranean is an albatross around Baltic's neck (although Baltic is by no means a good property either), except the Dark Blues command massive rents. Boardwalk is what saves it, but we can't ignore that Park Place is a terrible square and one of the least landed-on in the entire game.

It's true that Reds/Yellows cost more per level of housing than Dark Blues ($450 instead of $400), but it's tight enough not to matter. By contrast, the Greens are much more expensive, and mid-range to land on. It's a tough call between them and the Light Purples for worst property group, but I'd give Greens the axe simply because Light Purples are way less expensive and there's always a small chance someone rolls double 2s leaving Jail and ends up on Virginia. And St. Charles has a remarkably high chance of being landed on by anyone passing Go.

On the other hand, looking at the math I wonder if maybe I'm overrating the Dark Purples just because they're inexpensive. Baltic takes far too long to pay off (every property after it before the Greens is faster with no houses at all) and Mediterranean is flatly the worst investment in the game (with a hotel, it doesn't pay off faster than the Yellows with only two houses, and that costs only $150 more to do). The Greens lag behind everything from the Light Blues through the Yellows, but at least they can pay off, and constitute a potential threat to anyone who lands on them as the rents are high enough to be felt significantly. Land on a fully-developed Mediterranean and you laugh off $250 (which is barely more than Luxury Tax). Land on Pacific with only three houses and you're digging through your pockets for $900. Land on a fully-developed Pacific and you're paying $1275, which could easily bankrupt you. Of course Boardwalk docks you for $2000 and costs less, but the point is the final quarter of the board can bankrupt or force sales and mortgages, and the Dark Purples don't have that threat.

How often do people really land in jail? It is one square + what, 1 chance and 1 community chest card? I think you go around go plenty.

Statistically, Jail is the square you are most likely to be on, vastly higher than any other in the game (even Illinois) and around 5% on any given turn. You also get there by rolling doubles three times. Remember that you can get stuck in Jail, and failing to leave it essentially counts as "landing" on it. People also generally want to end up in Jail later in the game. The dice math also favors landing on corners quite often, you have a pretty high chance of landing on Jail/Go To Jail/Free Parking/Go. Because more things send you to Jail than any of the other corners, it comes up more often.

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Statistically, Jail is the square you are most likely to be on, vastly higher than any other in the game (even Illinois) and around 5% on any given turn. You also get there by rolling doubles three times. Remember that you can get stuck in Jail, and failing to leave it essentially counts as "landing" on it. People also generally want to end up in Jail later in the game. The dice math also favors landing on corners quite often, you have a pretty high chance of landing on Jail/Go To Jail/Free Parking/Go. Because more things send you to Jail than any of the other corners, it comes up more often.

I like the ruleset where you can't collect money while in jail. At least it makes things go faster (pay to leave immediately and then more people are running around the board).

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I don't really understand the logic behind light blues being good because people are more willing to trade them. That's sort of begging the question. If people knew that light blues were good, then they wouldn't trade them!

This isn't really true. Most of the time, they are trade fodder for other monopolies or just straight up money. The same rings true for all deeds but even moreso for Light Blue for being cheap and needing three for a monopoly rather than 2 for purples.

In addition, it's a lot harder to trade for Reds/Oranges. You can expound math all you want but the fact of the matter is that it is highly unlikely that you grab all of them without needing a trade. If you had to give away a Light Blue monopoly or a Red monopoly, most players choose the Light Blue simply under the impression that it won't hurt THAT badly.

I personally think that talking about the probability of landing on a specific square is pointless since it's not even an exploitable RNG we're dealing with. A lot of the game is more based on human interaction rather than straight numbers (trades are that big of an issue). You can't say "Reds are landed on most often" and expect them to then be at the top of the tier list because the outcomes of any specific game rely on who lands on what and who is willing to give up what for what.

Going to agree with Renall here because his argument is more robust than Life's.

No, you're agreeing with Renall's argument because he mentions "math" while I look at the human element of it. Unlike Fire Emblem, outcomes are not fixed based solely on math. Trading is probably the single most important element of this game, much more than rolling the dice. Play without trading and then explain to me how easy it is to achieve a monopoly when relying completely on "the luck of the dice".

Edited by Cocaine
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But player psychology differs too much to be predictable in a tier list. I've assumed rational players aware of the background math and willing to trade, as this is relatively predictable behavior common to competitive players; it isn't every group who plays, but it is akin to efficiency FE players.

If no one is willing to give up monopolies you're better off aiming for railroads and forcing tons of ruinous auctions. That's fun, but it isn't fun to tier.

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