The Last To Post Wins!

[Acacia Sgt]

1 hour ago, Armagon said:

Admitidly, that was more assumption on my part. I haven't found any concerete evidence from Namco itself. The most i have seen from my research into the matter is that Japanese media considered it a mainline game before Namco said no. However, at least from what i know, despite Tempest's poor reception, it seems to play like a normal Tales game.

Also, Tales of the Tempest came out in 2006. Eternia came out in 2000. There are no Mothership Tales games that came out in 2006.

I'm talking about Narikiri Dungeon, not Tempest. Both ND and Eternia came out in November 2000. That's what I meant in asking about ND being thought as main series. Since as you guessed, it was "retroactively made an escort title" when the designation became a thing. I was asking if there is evidence of that.

Edited October 6, 2019 by Acacia Sgt

[Armagon]

43 minutes ago, Acacia Sgt said:

I'm talking about Narikiri Dungeon, not Tempest. Both ND and Eternia came out in November 2000. That's what I meant in asking about ND being thought as main series. Since as you guessed, it was "retroactively made an escort title" when the designation became a thing.

Oh.

Well ND and Eternia were released on different systems so you could make an argument for it being a main series game back then. It was developed alongside Eternia but it's not uncommon for multiple games in a series to be developed at similar times so i wouldn't really use that as an argument against it being main series. The 10 day difference is a bit strange but it was the year 2000. Times were simpler back then. 

The second and third Narikiri Dungeons also released before the Escort designation but given how those two games are crossover games, they definitly were spin-offs even before Escorts were a thing. Then once the Escort desgination became official, the Narikiri Dungeons got moved here, even the first one despite that one actually being a sequel to Phantasia.

On a related note, and this may affect why Narikiri Dungeon was retroactively made Escort, but fun fact: Tales originally didn't belong to Namco. It belonged to Wolf Team (now known as Namco Tales Studio, developers of every Tales game up to Xilla), former members of the now defunct Telenet Japan studio. They developed every Tales game, with Namco simply publishing the series (they wanted Square to do it but they said no) until 2003 when Namco bought the studio and gained the rights to the Tales series (and after Xilla, NTS was merged into Namco itself). Narikiri Dungeon's Escort designation was determined by Namco so it's possible that Wolf Team didn't consider it a "spin-off" but that's absolutely an assumption on my part.

Edited October 6, 2019 by Armagon

[Armagon]

Toppling in Xenoblade 1 be like

 

Edited October 6, 2019 by Armagon

[Acacia Sgt]

3 hours ago, Armagon said:

Oh.

Well ND and Eternia were released on different systems so you could make an argument for it being a main series game back then. It was developed alongside Eternia but it's not uncommon for multiple games in a series to be developed at similar times so i wouldn't really use that as an argument against it being main series. The 10 day difference is a bit strange but it was the year 2000. Times were simpler back then. 

The second and third Narikiri Dungeons also released before the Escort designation but given how those two games are crossover games, they definitly were spin-offs even before Escorts were a thing. Then once the Escort desgination became official, the Narikiri Dungeons got moved here, even the first one despite that one actually being a sequel to Phantasia.

On a related note, and this may affect why Narikiri Dungeon was retroactively made Escort, but fun fact: Tales originally didn't belong to Namco. It belonged to Wolf Team (now known as Namco Tales Studio, developers of every Tales game up to Xilla), former members of the now defunct Telenet Japan studio. They developed every Tales game, with Namco simply publishing the series (they wanted Square to do it but they said no) until 2003 when Namco bought the studio and gained the rights to the Tales series (and after Xilla, NTS was merged into Namco itself). Narikiri Dungeon's Escort designation was determined by Namco so it's possible that Wolf Team didn't consider it a "spin-off" but that's absolutely an assumption on my part.

Although they likely didn't had the same people, it wouldn't surprise if ND could've been worked on the side with a smaller team while the bulk were with Eternia. Aside from being a GBC game, ND doesn't have stuff like an explorable world map, not much in terms of towns (and then since the game has time travel, some of the towns are just the same one with few if any changes tileset wise), dungeons are randomly generated, story is rich I'd say but not conveyed with much words so not much in terms of cutscenes either, soundtrack is almost all just already made tracks from Phantasia with little work to make them appropiate for the GBC, etc.

I would think it's because, sequel aside, it is effectively a gameplay genre shift. The ND trio of games are what their names say, Dungeon due to being dungeon crawlers, with Narikiri referring to the protagonists' ability to obtain powers and abilities through costume changing. Curiously, Narikiri doesn't have a proper way to be translated to English. Anyway, the first ND gets lumped with the other two, despite not sharing continuity, because it's a genre theme grouping.

This reminds me of Phantasia's other sequel: Summoner's Lineage, for the GBA. Also Japan-only, also a game that takes place in Aselia years after Phantasia's events, even beyond ND itself. Thing is, it's a SRPG; and also an Escort title, as it is. Despite also continuing Phantasia's story like ND did. So ND isn't alone in this sense, haha.

Oh yes, found about that while looking stuff up. Makes sense that it was Namco the one making the Main and Spin-off designations. Yeah, at this point it would just be conjecture what they thought about spin-off designations and stuff back then. Or even now.

---

This is an aside; but I'd say... ND's PSP remake... I actually don't feel quite enthusiastic about it. It got quite a story semi retune I just didn't found that much engaging, comparing it to the original. As it were.

Edited October 6, 2019 by Acacia Sgt

[MisterIceTeaPeach]

7 hours ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

That is putting it mildly, the game laaaaaaaaags day in and out. Well maybe not "lag", since it is so plentiful it seems to be an intentional sacrifice put into making the game. But whatever you call it, Cress's attacks are slower than they should be, I think everyone can agree on that.

And then there is the game's GBA English opening:

 

Namco explicitly said the game is "Escort" as opposed to "Mothership", aka spinoff not main entry.

The amount of effort put into the game certainly feels this game. It isn't Tales of Symphonia 2, it's ToS: Gaiden- a little sidestory after the great big journey of Lloyd and his seven-eight companions.

Speaking of Lloyd and the ToS1 cast, criticism is directed at how they can't level. The story determines their level at any given point, with all of them ending the game at level 50. While you can most certainly use them throughout the story as I did the first time, this is felt to be the game's way of shoehorning you into using Emile, Marta, and the game's recruitable and evolveable monsters.

Emile is not the problem for me, the cringy dialogue to motivate him? Yes, that is a problem. He is on the softer, wimper side of the JRPG protag, except when he gets edgy and angry in his red-eyed "Ratatosk Mode". But he was fun to play as, despite being just another sword user. 

I only have played very little yet (lent the Wii version about seven years ago) and the first impression was that the game's mood is extremely dark and depressing. A protagonist who is hated and chosen by the folks and cannot handle the situation with his whiny attitude. 

Symphonia might have a great story, but I have issues with the controls and graphics. I remember failing in the very first battle. 

If I started with a classic 2D Tales game, I would have a different opinion of the game. Getting used on the 2D battle style (someone compared it to StreetFighter which is describes accurately) is something I have my issues with. Same goes for dipping in Phantasia. 

 

Speaking of black sheeps: I consider Fire Emblem Awakening as Black Sheep of this series, although if this series has one, then it is Gaiden.

Tbf Zestiria does not have a good reputation either, also saw people called it as Black Sheep. The armatization was a cool idea, but executed totally wrong. You have to rely on that to withstand any (optional) boss fights which is stupid. Classic battle with four characters pretty much does not exist once armatization comes into play. 

[WeAreNewcastle1053]

Oooh, is someone posting Star Wars memes in here?

[Codename Shrimp]

Reddit does that to you

[Interdimensional Observer]

6 hours ago, Ingrid Brandl Galatea said:

I only have played very little yet (lent the Wii version about seven years ago) and the first impression was that the game's mood is extremely dark and depressing. A protagonist who is hated and chosen by the folks and cannot handle the situation with his whiny attitude. 

Not at all really. Things go into plenty of anime lightness as is par the course for the franchise, with Marta being a fun and a little clingy (but not obsessed by any means) heroine. Emile might be a little bullied in Luin, but thats only the introductory town, the rest of the world doesn't know him and treats him like anyone else.

Edited October 6, 2019 by Interdimensional Observer

[DragonFlames]

19 hours ago, Ingrid Brandl Galatea said:

Oh, there are people here who like Dawn to the New World?

People considered it as black sheep mainly because of the protagonist. 

(Have not played it yet because I am no big fan of Symphonia) 

Dawn of the New World was my first Tales game and it's still dear to my heart. I actually like the protagonists in that game. They're still among my favorite Tales characters, in fact.

19 hours ago, Armagon said:

My expierence with Tales games is simultanously pleasant and not so pleasant. I've watched the anime adaptations of Abyss, Symphonia and Zestiria. The plots are nothing i'd write home about but the characters are really nice.

When it comes to the actual games, i'm gonna sound like a broken record, but i just don't like how the older ones played. I liked Zestiria gameplay tho. And now that i have a Pro Controller, i'm willing to give Berseria a shot. As for Arise, it looks gorgeous and i'd love to try it out but i don't have anything to play it on (my PC ain't handling a game of that scale).

Hearts R, huh? I remember trying to emulate the original DS version but stopped because the fan-translation was incomplete do to R being out. And Vita emulators actually don't work (i shit on DS emulators a lot but at least they work) so i didn't really have a way to play it.

How was the game, btw? I've seen people talk about the other games you've listed but i've never really heard anything about Hearts.

Hearts R's gameplay is similar to Vesperia and other older Tales games (2D-fighter but actually not, as you might call it). What sells Hearts R as my number 5 spot is the world, characters and storytelling. The story is as follows: Inside every person, there exists a Spiria (basically their heart), which is frequently attacked my monsters known as Xerom. These Xerom frequently mess with people's Spiria, which also holds every emotion in a person, and thus can only be stopped by so-called Soma-wielders, who have the power to enter people's minds and rid them of their emotional turmoil caused by the Xerom. Soma are powerful spiritual weapons that enable a person to... well, do exactly that.
There also exists a legend of a maiden with emerald hair sleeping in a forest of thorns, and a white whale flying through the sky that supposedly makes it possible to get to her. The world also has two moons; one black and one white and it is said that the black moon will eventually fall on the world and destroy it.
 
In the game, you play as a guy named Kor Meteor, who lives with his grandpa Sydan on the coastline and is trained by him to become a Soma-wielder. After being gifted his grandpa's Soma, he meets the siblings Kohaku and Hisui Hearts (roll credits!), who are running away from a mysterious witch known as Incarose, who infects Kohaku's Spiria with despair in the form of several Xerom. Kor tries his best to cure her, but fails due to inexperience, shattering Kohaku's Spiria, which sends the shards flying all over the world and leaving her an emotionless husk, which of course angers Hisui, who is very protective of his sister and a bit of a loudmouth. To atone for his mistake, he promises Hisui to find the Spiria shards and "fix" Kohaku' heart, which is what the plot is largely about from then on.
That's basically the story in broad strokes. In case anyone here still wants to play it, I'll refrain from mentioning too many spoilers, but I did very much enjoy the many twists and turns this story has and I felt like everything tied neatly together by the end (aside from the romance subplot between Kor and Kohaku, which felt forced).

[Armagon]

12 hours ago, Acacia Sgt said:

This reminds me of Phantasia's other sequel: Summoner's Lineage, for the GBA. Also Japan-only, also a game that takes place in Aselia years after Phantasia's events, even beyond ND itself. Thing is, it's a SRPG; and also an Escort title, as it is. Despite also continuing Phantasia's story like ND did. So ND isn't alone in this sense, haha.

Well then. 

Yeah, uh, maybe the Mothership/Escort designations aren't as clear as I thought. But DotNW should've still been catagorized under Mothership. I will die on that hill. 

 

12 hours ago, Ingrid Brandl Galatea said:

Speaking of black sheeps: I consider Fire Emblem Awakening as Black Sheep of this series,

Wait what? How? How is the game that saved the entire series a black sheep? That doesn't make sense. 

 

4 hours ago, DragonFlames said:

What sells Hearts R as my number 5 spot is the world, characters and storytelling. The story is as follows: Inside every person, there exists a Spiria (basically their heart), which is frequently attacked my monsters known as Xerom. These Xerom frequently mess with people's Spiria, which also holds every emotion in a person, and thus can only be stopped by so-called Soma-wielders, who have the power to enter people's minds and rid them of their emotional turmoil caused by the Xerom. Soma are powerful spiritual weapons that enable a person to... well, do exactly that.
There also exists a legend of a maiden with emerald hair sleeping in a forest of thorns, and a white whale flying through the sky that supposedly makes it possible to get to her. The world also has two moons; one black and one white and it is said that the black moon will eventually fall on the world and destroy it.
 
In the game, you play as a guy named Kor Meteor, who lives with his grandpa Sydan on the coastline and is trained by him to become a Soma-wielder. After being gifted his grandpa's Soma, he meets the siblings Kohaku and Hisui Hearts (roll credits!), who are running away from a mysterious witch known as Incarose, who infects Kohaku's Spiria with despair in the form of several Xerom. Kor tries his best to cure her, but fails due to inexperience, shattering Kohaku's Spiria, which sends the shards flying all over the world and leaving her an emotionless husk, which of course angers Hisui, who is very protective of his sister and a bit of a loudmouth. To atone for his mistake, he promises Hisui to find the Spiria shards and "fix" Kohaku' heart, which is what the plot is largely about from then on.

Sounds pretty nice, though ngl, that whole thing with Spiria and Xerom sounds Kingdom Hearts-esque. I'd imagine the concept is executed a lot better though.

__________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

On an unrelated note, which Tales games have the actual 3D combat? I know Zestiria and Berseria do and the upcoming Arise definitly seems to have it. But what other games do it, because chances are, i'll be able to get into them.

Edited October 6, 2019 by Armagon

[DragonFlames]

1 minute ago, Armagon said:

Sounds pretty nice, though ngl, that whole thing with Spiria and Xerom sounds Kingdom Hearts-esque. I'd imagine the concept is executed a lot better though.

It is, trust me. You only need to play that one game to get all the info you need, for one.
If anything sounded confusing, that's just me being piss-poor at explaining things. I really should never be a teacher.

2 minutes ago, Armagon said:

On an unrelated note, which Tales games have the actual 3D combat? I know Zestiria and Berseria do and the upcoming Arise definitly seems to have it. But what other games do it, because chances are, i'll be able to get into them.

Xillia and Xillia 2 do, as well as Graces, which is the one Zestiria and Berseria took their combat system from. Though they vastly improved it.

[Armagon]

4 minutes ago, DragonFlames said:

Xillia and Xillia 2 do, as well as Graces, which is the one Zestiria and Berseria took their combat system from. Though they vastly improved it.

Alright, so i do have a nice selection. I'll probably try one of them out during the winter break (probably Berseria since i know for a fact that one is on PC and i don't have to emulate anything). Or maybe earlier idk. Depends on whether or not i can finish one before Atelier Ryza comes out since i'm not really playing anything else at the moment other than Super Neptunia RPG, of which i want to play something else alongside it to avoid Super Nep from becoming a bit of a slog.

[Interdimensional Observer]

16 minutes ago, DragonFlames said:

Xillia and Xillia 2 do, as well as Graces

The first and last I know fall into Armagon's problem with the franchise. That being a 3D battle arena, but the fighting is essentially along a 2D line. Free Run does let you run around the place, but ultimately it's not 3D enough for Armagon. After all, they played Abyss and didn't exactly care for it, and the core combat is essentially the same between Abyss and Xillia and Graces, despite varying gimmicks and flourishes.

Edited October 6, 2019 by Interdimensional Observer

[DragonFlames]

20 minutes ago, Armagon said:

Alright, so i do have a nice selection. I'll probably try one of them out during the winter break (probably Berseria since i know for a fact that one is on PC and i don't have to emulate anything). Or maybe earlier idk. Depends on whether or not i can finish one before Atelier Ryza comes out since i'm not really playing anything else at the moment other than Super Neptunia RPG, of which i want to play something else alongside it to avoid Super Nep from becoming a bit of a slog.

I doubt you can finish Berseria until Atelier Ryza comes out. That game takes a while, unless you binge-play it.

15 minutes ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

The first and last I know fall into Armagon's problem with the franchise. That being a 3D battle arena, but the fighting is essentially along a 2D line. Free Run does let you run around the place, but ultimately it's not 3D enough for Armagon. After all, they played Abyss and didn't exactly care for it, and the core combat is essentially the same between Abyss and Xillia and Graces, despite varying gimmicks and flourishes.

Are they? I found Xillia and Xillia 2 to be the most 3D one of them. I might have to go back and check, though. Wouldn't want to lie, after all.

EDIT: I checked and you're right. My apologies. I misremembered.
I did find this, however. It describes the battle systems in the Tales games, which could be an interesting read for those who are... well, interested:
https://aselia.fandom.com/wiki/Linear_Motion_Battle_System#Tales_of_Xillia

Edited October 6, 2019 by DragonFlames
nearly spread misinformation. My bad!

[Armagon]

7 hours ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

Free Run does let you run around the place, but ultimately it's not 3D enough for Armagon.

Regarding the Free Run mechanic in Abyss, it felt like a bandaid solution to me. Like yeah it's nice but i didn't really feel that it actually fixed the problem i had with the combat. Free running in Abyss just felt kinda awkward and discouraged (having to hold a button to do it, you can't attack while doing so, the movement speed is kinda slow).

7 hours ago, DragonFlames said:

I doubt you can finish Berseria until Atelier Ryza comes out. That game takes a while, unless you binge-play it

I'd imagine, yeah. Yeah, i think i'll try out Berseria during the winter break. Alternitavely, since Zestiria is also on PC (i literally just found this out), i could try going back to that (previously, i've only played like the first hour of the game of the PS4 version at a friend's house and it was the first time i ever played a Tales game. Coincidentally, it was her first Tales game as well).

Also i just remembered that i haven't played Ys 7 in a while so i do have a game to play alongside Super Nep. Hopefully i can finish both before Ryza.

7 hours ago, DragonFlames said:

I checked and you're right. My apologies. I misremembered.

No worries, we all make mistakes sometimes.

Anyways, i checked out the link you posted and it seems there may be other pre-Zestiria Tales games i might enjoy.

• Reading about Tales of Innocence's combat says that it's battle system "enables three-dimensional battle". I don't know if that's specific to something or if the combat really is full 3D. Can anyone confirm?
• Vesperia is basically better Abyss from what i'm reading here. The big thing i noticed is that you can actually attack during free run and said attack will automatically link to your combos and stuff.
• Graces lets you side-step which is good for dodging and, if timed correctly, can be used to counterattack (a staple in a lot of action games). On the downside, free running is genuianly discouraged in this game (the game punishes you if you do it).

Between the three, Vesperia Definitive is on the Switch but if i do decide to play it, i'll find a way to try it out before actually committing to the Switch version. The other two, i'm kinda fucked. Innocence is on the DS, which means i'd have to emulate (i mean, i still have my 3DS but it's been like a two years since i last used it) and DS emulators suck. Graces, i might have more success with. It's on the Wii and Dolphin is a good emulator, though if it requires motion controls of any kind, then i really am fucked as i have no idea how to replicate that. But these will be for much later, i still wanna play Zestiria/Berseria first since i did actually enjoy the former and the latter is pretty much on the same boat (i'd be surprised if i didn't enjoy Berseria's combat).

On an unrealted note, good lord, those abbreviations for all the different variants of the Linear Motion Battle System are........a thing. Same energy as Sm4sh Shulk advanced tech abbrivations.

 

[Acacia Sgt]

I wonder if I can write something about Day of the Dead for something that is meant to be Halloween-themed...

---

Seeing all those Tales games on PC/Steam, I wish they give us yet one more Phantasia port for there... and this time they localize it!!! After the disaster of the phone port, it can't go anywhere but up now.

Edited October 7, 2019 by Acacia Sgt

[Interdimensional Observer]

I was playing around with using the non-Cross characters in XCX to see how hard it'd be to achieve an endlessly sustainable Overdrive. I stuck with store-bought gear in the level 25-30 range at best and only maxed the level on a few Arts and Skills that I thought would be vital to their Overdrive success. This is how the player would have to function for most of the game.

My enemy was level ~22 Copper Ciniculas in Primordia near NLA, they're pretty harmless to level 60 characters and still have enough HP to last long enough to make this experiment work.

Some people had their maximum TP increased via Skills or Ground Gear. Level 5 Grenada gear has Max TP Up I in it, which increases the maximum TP value by 500. Given everyone has five armor slots, five pieces of the weakest Grenada let me go into battle with 5500 TP. Or, it looks like Max TP XX Augments are incredibly easy to make, and just one of those will bring the TP max to 6000. 

That surplus TP, earned in advance via auto-attacking scrub enemies for a few minutes in preparation for this fight where you intend to Overdrive, makes getting extending Overdrive significantly easier, as an early extension is almost absolutely necessary to making Overdrive last forever.

And I could have made this easier if I made Extend Overdrive V augments. They don’t look very hard to make, and each would give me 7 more precious seconds of Overdrive. I could even stack several of these. (I wish the game tell me what enemies families/subfamilies drop a certain material when I examined the material in question.)

 

Now to divide everyone:

Easiest:

Spoiler

• Elma- It was a little tight, but I managed to slip in the one extension I needed to make the OD endless. I had maxed her Hellhound (+10 seconds on starting Overdrive) and Phantom Counter (+12 to Overdrive Count when initiating/extend Overdrive) Skills to make this easier. I didn't add in anything else, no max TP increases at all.
• Phog- The exact same weapon setup as Elma, including Hellhound and Phantom Counter, that should have made things easy for him. It did. Phog needed no TP boost, he nailed it with only 3000 TP, despite a close call on the first OD extension- the exact same as Elma. I realized here that Purple Arts actually give TP in Overdrive for every hit dealt, which are usually very few, but this is significant. Side Slash (shared by Elma) hits twice and very fast, has a very low cooldown, and secondary and tertiary cooldown stack extra uses of the Art, altogether making it divine for TP generation.
• Celica- British(?) alien girl is Elma/Phog with Knife instead of Dual Swords. No Side Slash, instead she has to use Screamer as her Purple, which isn’t as good. Nor does she have Hellhound or Phantom Counter. And yet, Celica’s Zero Zero deals 10 hits, use a Green right beforehand for an instant 20. And then she can use another quick Green and follow with 12 hits of Sliding Slinger.
  • Celica has High Tension, which I initially put on her for 4500 TP, but it felt so easy getting to endless Overdrive that I dropped it on a second attempt, and I still with only 3000 TP got my sustainable Overdrive with ease. Did I forget to remove the Arts Gain TP XX I put on her to get to 3000 TP by fighting weak enemies before going after the Cinicula? I don’t think so, Celica is just very likely just that good. And only with her, the last character I tested, did I realize it was better to wait for Arts with immediate reuse on secondary cooldown to do cooldown before activating Overdrive.

Easy:

Spoiler

• Alexa- The first character I tried this experiment with. It began with me just barely failing to get that crucial OD extension in. Then I gave her her High Tension skill at level 3 to increase her max TP to 4000. Having the initial surplus of TP allowed the one OD extension to happen. I didn't even need her powerful TP Overdrive Skill for this.
  • But, I did need the Ramjet Rifle, a special Assault Rifle with a minimal 1 Atk, but its each of its 3 auto-attack hits give 300 TP. As Overdrive reduces the cooldown between auto-attacks, this makes it excellent for TP generation and Overdrive. Alexa's damage all comes from Maximum Voltage, a Javelin Art using Potential, so she'll still at MAX OD be able to dish out great damage.
    • Where do you get the Ramjet Rifle? Alexa's first/recruitment Affinity Mission. You can't have her without it. You can't sell the Ramjet either, it's with you forever.
• Irina- Another possible user of the Ramjet Rifle. Add in Furious Blast (which all Assault Rifle users get), and she has the OD Count taken care of. She becomes one fast and powerful partywide healer actually, just a little fragile. I put a level 3 High Tension on her skill lineup to provide a starting surplus TP.
  • The Ramjet Rifle's minimal Atk didn't stop her Quick Cannon from being deadly, ripping off a ~third of the Cinicula's HP at MAX per use with the Knife's Full Specs Aura applied. Makes sense, the strongest store-bought Assault Rifle has only 18 Atk (other weapons have over 300, but that certainly doesn't mean ARs are harmless).
• H.B.- Third possible user of the Ramjet Rifle. Need I say more? I bumped his TP max to 4000 beforehand via armor.
• Gwin- Fourth Ramjet Rifle user. (Why so many playable Assault Rifle-using BLADEs?) Like everyone else in the Easy tier but the next person, I got his TP max up beforehand to 4000.
• Nagi- How did you kill the enemy before you even got to 50 OD Count Mr. Defense Secretary? How'd you, with such a poor OD Count, end up in an unending Overdrive when I didn’t think that was possible without massive use of grinded-up Augments? I thank:
  • Two Purple (Debuff) Arts in Burning Slash and Magnum Edge. These generate TP equal to OD Count multiplied by 10 when used in Overdrive (so 1000 TP per use at MAX).
  • I thank that I maxed an Aura and Cool Off for him. Cool Off prematurely ends an Aura, but gives you 1000 TP back at level 1, at level 5, you get 2000 TP, for a net gain of 1000. Maxing those allowed me to generate TP quickly, and I only needed to increase his TP maximum to 4000, unlike the other Gatling Gun users (was I using them inefficiently?).
  • A maxed True Stream Edge, for giving him 120 per use with an easy single increase in Morale obtained beforehand.
  • I thank a maxed Yamato Spirit, which gives him 60 TP per Melee Art used, 120 with an Aura before I fed it to Cool Off.
  • And, I thank Grand Procession, which when maxed gives him (and everyone else) 500 TP after activating (and I guess when extending) Overdrive.

Moderate Challenge:

Spoiler

• Murderess- She traded her Dual Guns for Psycho Launchers, a move that reduces her Overdrive capabilities. But, Hellhound for 10 extra OD seconds, High Tension for 4500 TP, and Trigger Happy to reduce Ranged Art cooldown, these were all useful. I’m not quite sure if I actually needed the extra TP, but it certainly didn’t hurt to have it. She is borderline easy Overdrive.
  • A Suid stumbled into the one battle I tried when it got hit by a Seventh Edge, which does affect the results by adding OD count that wouldn’t otherwise be there. (Though, fighting packs of enemies will happen, and that does help build OD count with AoE Arts.) And yet I think it is clear that Murderess, albeit not as easily as Elma, has the resources for a good endless Overdrive. I honestly overestimate Dual Guns Art hit count a little, Sliding Slinger is only 6, only Celica and Cross can get Zero Zero’s 10 hits. But Slinging Slinger’s short cooldown and fast animation do still make it particularly good. So it's more than just the hit count.
• Lin- Wore a full set of level 5 Grenada for 5500 TP max (but she only really needed four, maybe three pieces). Gatling Gun is good for the hit count, the problem was just generating the TP fast enough for that first OD extension. Gatling Gun Arts take a little time to execute. Using a fully leveled Cool Off was very valuable too.
• Frye- Took a full set of Grenada, but surprisingly he worked out, I thought he'd fail even then. An Aura into Cool Off was again necessary. Burning Slash for TP generation was needed too. Those being his only Green and Purple Arts was limiting, but he might have been easier than his fellow Gatling user Lin.

Hard:

Spoiler

• Boze- He has TP Overdrive, which when maxed gives 150 TP per Art used in Overdrive. That should make it easy to achieve an endless OD. But it didn't, the Javelin-Sniper Rifle combo is severely lacking for OD Count. I got him 5500 TP, and it was somehow enough to make it close to sustainable after one extension, even if it was closer to two “make or break” extensions. And he didn’t even reach 70 on the Count to achieve that before he slew the Cinicula. Still, he is compared to everyone except Hope, bad at Overdrive. 
• Hope- She led me me to despair. Hope has TP Overdrive, but as with Boze, it failed to be sufficient for an easy Overdrive. I maxed her Knight's Soul (same as High Tension, but you can stack their boosts if you have both and are willing to expend the Skill slots) to bring her TP to 4500. That wasn't enough, she kept failing on the border of success and I had to give her three Grenada pieces for 6000 TP. And even then, one OD extension wasn’t enough for her OD to become sustainable, she barely managed to get a second extend in, after which miraculously her Overdrive became self-sustaining. 
  • Hope’s problem? Knife and Psycho Launchers just couldn't bring the OD Count up fast enough for the Greens to buy enough time to TP Overdrive and Tacit Censure to reach 3000 TP again.
    • Hope has Brainjack and Servant Sacrifice. I tried on a separate successful attempt to Overdrive and then Control the enemy. When she succeeded, a maxed Servant Sacrifice was used. With just 5000 TP max, the Servant Sacrifice generated 2500 for Hope, a net gain of 1500 TP. But, you can't rely on Brainjack against Tyrants or story bosses, so this approach has limited usefulness.
• L- I knew he’d be difficult when it came to Overdrive, Shield and Psycho Launchers can’t generate the hits, his best Arts deal 5 and 3 respectively. I didn’t want to try multiple times, so I off-the-bat maxed his Knight’s Soul and added a full set of cheap Grenada for 7000 TP. After two extensions, the OD became sustainable. Still, doesn’t make endless OD with him “easy”.
• Yelv- He is very the much same as Doug (see below), same two weapons, similar Arts and Skills lineups, complete with High Tension and Knight’s Soul. But, he has Gravity Cloak (why Doug doesn’t have it is purely arbitary) as a second Green Art, very useful. And, Yelv has his signature, and highly risky, Essence Exchange. It allows him to quickly get his TP to max by swapping his current HP and TP values. Until the postgame where a full reflect build is possible, that can leave him very near dead in real fight. 
  • And yet, in this test battle where Yelv couldn’t perish against such a weak enemy, Essence Exchange made it possible for him, against my expectations, to get an OD extension in. And thereafter his Overdrive achieved sustainability.
• Mia- She needed over 7000 TP via higher strength TP Ups for two OD extensions before she became sustainable. Low hit counts and Arts with long animations, particularly for her debuffs, are to blame. If you can recruit Mia, you’ll most definitely have access to everything needed for easy endless Overdrives. However, given Mia is a standard Psycorruptor/Mastermind, this bodes ill for Overdrive if you make Cross one at the start of the game.
• Doug- He only has Astral Purge as a Green Art without TP cost, and that wasn’t enough even with the 6 hits of Starfall Rondo being fairly fast. He had Knight Soul and High Tension, and both maxed with four pieces of Grenada for 8000 TP. The Cinicula died too soon to determine whether after two extensions, that his Overdrive had become sustainable, the second extension as is was very precariously successful. Therefore I conclude he is a ginormous challenge to endless OD with.

 

Now if only I understood how to do this before I cleared the story eons ago. This would have made things so much easier being able to Overdrive though it all. Instead, I did absolutely nothing with it for practically the entire game, and the challenge was higher for it.

[MisterIceTeaPeach]

9 hours ago, Armagon said:

Wait what? How? How is the game that saved the entire series a black sheep? That doesn't make sense. 

This is from my view. 

Awakening was like two step backs regarding gameplay compared to Tellius (ambivalent to FE6 and FE5). The new things like pair-up were executed poorly. And I really did not need marriages and waifu-wars in Fire Emblem. I am so glad Three Houses got rid of them aside of Byleth. If I say that "Edna is the best of Zestiria", then same goes for Lucina in Awakening. She is the only reason I would ever replay this game. 

[Armagon]

38 minutes ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

Hope- She led me me to despair.

 

39 minutes ago, Interdimensional Observer said:

Now if only I understood how to do this before I cleared the story eons ago. This would have made things so much easier being able to Overdrive though it all. Instead, I did absolutely nothing with it for practically the entire game, and the challenge was higher for it.

If Xenoblade X ever gets ported, hopefully it actually includes tutorials. I know there was a manual but there's a reason why everyone says the game teaches you jack shit. Kinda dumb how learning how to use Overdrive is a lot easier in Xenoblade 2 than it is in X, despite only being a DLC mechanic in the former. Though am i correct in assuming that X Overdrive and 2 Overdrive function differently? And i don't just mean the TP/Party Gauge differences.

 

12 minutes ago, Ingrid Brandl Galatea said:

This is from my view. 

Awakening was like two step backs regarding gameplay compared to Tellius (ambivalent to FE6 and FE5). The new things like pair-up were executed poorly. And I really did not need marriages and waifu-wars in Fire Emblem. I am so glad Three Houses got rid of them aside of Byleth. If I say that "Edna is the best of Zestiria", then same goes for Lucina in Awakening. She is the only reason I would ever replay this game. 

There is no game that is unanimously loved but if a game saved an entire franchise from termination, by definition, it can't be a black sheep. That's why i'm confused as to why you'd refer to Awakening as a black sheep. I get not liking the game but Awakening isn't really a black sheep.

[MisterIceTeaPeach]

Awakening splits the community (probably as no other game in the franchise does). It introduces tons of new people into FE (which is why this game saved the series), but for veterans like me it was a huge disappointment in terms of content. But I do not want to fall back with my paroles in my dark past about five years ago and I will not say anything more about it. I accept that people like it because it has a new stuff. It is just for someone like me who likes a variety of mission objectives and staves, FE13 did not extend its potential to its full and prioritized things which are minor in FE to me. 

[Codename Shrimp]

9 hours ago, Armagon said:

The big thing i noticed is that you can actually attack during free run and said attack will automatically link to your combos and stuff.

from what bit i played: no. You can only do that one attack while in 3D mode and that's it.

Maybe it changes later on, but eary game it doesn't combo off

[DragonFlames]

10 hours ago, Armagon said:

Regarding the Free Run mechanic in Abyss, it felt like a bandaid solution to me. Like yeah it's nice but i didn't really feel that it actually fixed the problem i had with the combat. Free running in Abyss just felt kinda awkward and discouraged (having to hold a button to do it, you can't attack while doing so, the movement speed is kinda slow).

I never made much use of Free Run in Abyss. It felt kind of pointless to me.

10 hours ago, Armagon said:

I'd imagine, yeah. Yeah, i think i'll try out Berseria during the winter break. Alternitavely, since Zestiria is also on PC (i literally just found this out), i could try going back to that (previously, i've only played like the first hour of the game of the PS4 version at a friend's house and it was the first time i ever played a Tales game. Coincidentally, it was her first Tales game as well).

Yeah, Zestiria's gameplay is great, even if the story isn't as good as the other entries. It's still pretty good, but the previous games just set the bar too high.
And if you like Zestiria, Berseria will probably be even better, because, at least to me, the combat system in Berseria felt a little smoother than in Zestiria.

10 hours ago, Armagon said:

Anyways, i checked out the link you posted and it seems there may be other pre-Zestiria Tales games i might enjoy.

• Reading about Tales of Innocence's combat says that it's battle system "enables three-dimensional battle". I don't know if that's specific to something or if the combat really is full 3D. Can anyone confirm?
• Vesperia is basically better Abyss from what i'm reading here. The big thing i noticed is that you can actually attack during free run and said attack will automatically link to your combos and stuff.
• Graces lets you side-step which is good for dodging and, if timed correctly, can be used to counterattack (a staple in a lot of action games). On the downside, free running is genuianly discouraged in this game (the game punishes you if you do it).

Between the three, Vesperia Definitive is on the Switch but if i do decide to play it, i'll find a way to try it out before actually committing to the Switch version. The other two, i'm kinda fucked. Innocence is on the DS, which means i'd have to emulate (i mean, i still have my 3DS but it's been like a two years since i last used it) and DS emulators suck. Graces, i might have more success with. It's on the Wii and Dolphin is a good emulator, though if it requires motion controls of any kind, then i really am fucked as i have no idea how to replicate that. But these will be for much later, i still wanna play Zestiria/Berseria first since i did actually enjoy the former and the latter is pretty much on the same boat (i'd be surprised if i didn't enjoy Berseria's combat).

Graces also has an enhanced remake called Graces f that adds another storyline after the main one. Sadly, it's only on PS3.
Can't say anything about Tales of Innocence, as I have never played any pre-Symphonia Tales game. I do know that it had a remake, too. Only in Japan, though.

10 hours ago, Armagon said:

On an unrealted note, good lord, those abbreviations for all the different variants of the Linear Motion Battle System are........a thing. Same energy as Sm4sh Shulk advanced tech abbrivations.

Agreed, it's weird as heck.

Then again, to me, most abbreviations in the competitive scenes of Pokémon and Smash are like a different language to me.

44 minutes ago, Shrimperor said:

from what bit i played: no. You can only do that one attack while in 3D mode and that's it.

Maybe it changes later on, but eary game it doesn't combo off

IIRC, there is a skill that you can learn that allows you to do that in Vesperia.

[Armagon]

55 minutes ago, Shrimperor said:

from what bit i played: no. You can only do that one attack while in 3D mode and that's it.

Maybe it changes later on, but eary game it doesn't combo off

....it seems i misunderstood the text. The one attack during Free Run cancels the free run itself. You can start combos off of it but it's not a combo starter.

3 minutes ago, DragonFlames said:

I never made much use of Free Run in Abyss. It felt kind of pointless to me.

I just personally felt like i needed more room. Being on a 2D plane with only three directions (back, foward, jump) felt kinda limiting to me. I don't really like 2D fighters that much for the same reason.

6 minutes ago, DragonFlames said:

And if you like Zestiria, Berseria will probably be even better, because, at least to me, the combat system in Berseria felt a little smoother than in Zestiria.

That's good to hear.

 

7 minutes ago, DragonFlames said:

IIRC, there is a skill that you can learn that allows you to do that in Vesperia.

Oh ok, so you can't just do it right away then. That's fine if that's the case.

[DragonFlames]

4 minutes ago, Armagon said:

I just personally felt like i needed more room. Being on a 2D plane with only three directions (back, foward, jump) felt kinda limiting to me. I don't really like 2D fighters that much for the same reason.

Perfectly understandable.

---

In other news, I forgot the level cap in Etrian Odyssey Nexus is 99 from the get-go. In other EO games, it's 70 and you have to beat powerful post-game bosses to get to 99. In Nexus, you beat powerful post-game bosses to get to 130. Talk about Up To Eleven. The best part? If you start a New Game+ with new characters, those new characters can get to 130 from the get-go, so you don't even need to wait until the post-game to go beyond 99.

Also, in MegaNep VII, I tried to take on one of the Dark CPUs in the Colosseum with only Ram.
Emphasis on "tried".
Why did I try that? I figured since she's among the strongest damage dealers in the game (her second EXE Drive is only outmatched by the finishing moves of the Next Forms, damage-wise), I figured she might be able to do it.  I forgot that she, like Lysithea, is kind of a glass cannon in exchange for her offensive prowess. Oops.
I also got a flag item from a quest that makes it so you have an infinite EXE Gauge. Spamming HDD, Next Forms and EXE Drives all in one turn is fun. It also somewhat negates the problem the Next Form EXE Drives have; that they cancel the transformation after use, because you can just transform again.

Meaning I'm seeing this a lot in battle:

I think I need to rework my Nep Tier List a bit...

[Armagon]

Smash is a fucking poverty eSport. I get more money from my financial aid refunds than the person who won 4th place at this supermajor tournament. Maybe if Nintendo actually got involved in the scene. You know, like other companies that own fighting games? Or eSports in general? 

 

2 hours ago, DragonFlames said:

I also got a flag item from a quest that makes it so you have an infinite EXE Gauge.

What the fuck, that's a thing? Where can i get it?

 

2 hours ago, DragonFlames said:

Meaning I'm seeing this a lot in battle:

Next Black is definitly the best looking of the Next Forms.

After her, i think i'd put Next White in 2nd place, if only because the giant cannon she pulls out during her EXE Drive is absolutely a stand-in for the Wii U Gamepad and the thought of using the Gamepad as a weapon of mass destruction is hilarious to me.