So I just beat the first Golden Sun...

[Original Alear]

In contrast to that, in Golden Sun the only time you actually defeat your opponents before the showdown, there was a story justification for it, and Saturos didn't felt like he became weaker when he fought in a team.

Actually, I like to believe that Saturos was just making excuses that time. Mia gets a pp recovery every turn, so the character's party was close enough to feel the effects of the lighthouse...but Garet didn't lose any psynergy during the fight with Saturos. I know the game developers just didn't fully implement the effects of the lighthouse into the gameplay, and didn't intend for this interpretation, but hey, death of the author!

Personally, I actually felt like soundly beating Saturos so early in the game made him and Menardi seem less threatening, and in the end, they weren't that tough. What I like about the antagonists of GS is that they're not over the top evil. Seems like bodies only fall when necessary for those two.

[Othin]

Garet isn't weak to Mercury. None of the playable characters have any serious weakness to any element. Saturos and Menardi, on the other hand, have much more dramatic elemental differences and Mercury weaknesses. That could explain the difference.

Regardless, at normal levels, you don't "soundly" beat Saturos by any stretch of the imagination. Unless you're crazy overleveled or very experiences, the best you can do is hope to barely survive the fight.

Edited March 1, 2012 by Othin

[BrightBow]

I guess you could justify Garet's lack of an actual weakness to water justify with him being from Vale, which has all kinds of different Adepts while Saturos's team is specifically from the "Fire Clan of the north" or whatever he called it. Also for whatever reason the lighthouses restore 4 PP regardless of whether the fire is lit or not as long as you are anywhere in the lighthouse.

Also, Saturos is a serious treat at the mercury lighthouse, thanks to Eruption which can easily cause more damage then you can heal in time before the next Fireball barrage since you lack area-heal spells at that point. He might even downright one-shot Ivan and he should move faster then Mia. And your abilities to revive allies are still quite limited at that point. I think you can very well loose this battle, even when well prepared.

Edited March 1, 2012 by BrightBow

[Scarlet]

Also, Saturos is a serious treat at the mercury lighthouse, thanks to Eruption which can easily cause more damage then you can heal in time before the next Fireball barrage since you lack area-heal spells at that point. He might even downright one-shot Ivan and he should move faster then Mia. And your abilities to revive allies are still quite limited at that point. I think you can very well loose this battle, even when well prepared.

Having Mia do the healing when it's really necessary is a bad idea anyway, though, mainly because she usually goes last. Isaac should be able to go before Saturos and has healing psynergy as well, and Ivan is pretty much guaranteed to do so and can heal with healing items. In fact, this is about the only battle in the game where I actually consider using healing items.

It's one of the harder battles for sure, and you can easily lose it if you aren't prepared - but if you are prepared, he's not that tough.

Mia is the worst character in the game anyway. Just like all the other mercury adepts in the other games, really.

[Othin]

Ability to access Wish is one of the most important characteristics between characters, and Mercury Adepts, especially Mia and Rief, do it better than anyone. That's a long shot from being the "worst" characters.

[Scarlet]

Why would I need Wish when I can just crush enemies before they even get to do much damage in the first place? Besides, other characters have access to Wish as well, you just need to give them the right djinns. Furthermore, this game is really easy for the most part anyway; sure, Wish is handy in the final battle, but aside from that it's mostly just a waste of PP.

The second game is a bit more difficult, but it also gives us Jenna, who can do the same job in her default series of classes and acts leagues faster than any mercury adept is ever going to. And in addition to that, when she isn't busy healing, she actually has reasonable damage output.

Then there's the third game, where you pretty much don't need healing ever (except for the final battle and the bonus bosses, I guess).

So yeah, I do consider you the worst character in the game if the only thing you're even remotely good at isn't even needed.

Edited March 1, 2012 by Shade of Shadow

[Othin]

Other characters require valuable Mercury Djinn in order to use Wish. Jenna has Aura, but it's weaker and only available in her base class.

The Mercury Adepts aren't any worse at Psynergy attacks than other mage-based characters. Mercury attacks aren't always the best to use, but if you need a different attack, you can switch them to a different class series. Which would you rather have: Ivan as a Fire Monk or Mia as a Water Monk? The choice should be obvious.

What are your endgame levels, anyway, if you're finding everything that easy?

[Scarlet]

Other characters require valuable Mercury Djinn in order to use Wish. Jenna has Aura, but it's weaker and only available in her base class.

I don't really care about Aura being weaker, it usually is a full heal regardless. Besides, Jenna's base class series is actually pretty good, so I have no issues having her stay in it.

And what else are you gonna do with those mercury djinn? Sure, you can leave them on Mia herself, but then she's hogging those "valuable" mercury djinns all by herself for a pretty underwhelming performance (compared to the rest of the party, at least).

The Mercury Adepts aren't any worse at Psynergy attacks than other mage-based characters. Mercury attacks aren't always the best to use, but if you need a different attack, you can switch them to a different class series. Which would you rather have: Ivan as a Fire Monk or Mia as a Water Monk? The choice should be obvious.

I remember like half the game being resistant to mercury and weak to jupiter psynergy.

Aside from that, she does okay in random encounters if you discount the fact that most of them are over before she even gets to act. But she does really bad against bosses as she doesn't have any attacking psynergy that strongly damages a single target, and her melee attacks aren't any good either.

I mostly leave people in their base class series though, so I honestly can't tell how she'd do as a water monk. I doubt that it notably changes her performance, though, unless she suddenly gains strong attacks and stops being the last to act in combat.

What are your endgame levels, anyway, if you're finding everything that easy?

The last time I completed the game, Deadbeard included, my party was Lv28. The lowest I've beaten the game at was Lv23, IIRC.

In case you're trying to imply something to that extent, I don't grind. I just don't run from battles, and considering this game's characters don't learn Avoid in their base classes, I don't use that either.

Edited March 1, 2012 by Shade of Shadow

[Acacia Sgt]

Garet isn't weak to Mercury. None of the playable characters have any serious weakness to any element. Saturos and Menardi, on the other hand, have much more dramatic elemental differences and Mercury weaknesses. That could explain the difference.

Regardless, at normal levels, you don't "soundly" beat Saturos by any stretch of the imagination. Unless you're crazy overleveled or very experiences, the best you can do is hope to barely survive the fight.

Actually, the playable characters are indeed weak to an element. It's just not the one you'd expect. Even just having same-element Djinn, the Earth adepts were weak to Fire Psynergy, the Wind adepts to Water Psynergy, and vice versa for the other two cases.

[Othin]

Actually, the playable characters are indeed weak to an element. It's just not the one you'd expect. Even just having same-element Djinn, the Earth adepts were weak to Fire Psynergy, the Wind adepts to Water Psynergy, and vice versa for the other two cases.

I'm aware; that's why I specified "serious" weakness. Their lowest resistance has 76 base (can get slightly lower with certain items), while enemies often have their lowest weakness much worse.

That said, Saturos's Mercury weakness is 72, which isn't a whole lot lower. On the other hand, his other resistances are all 100 or higher, so there's more of a relative difference.

Edited March 1, 2012 by Othin

[Acacia Sgt]

I'm aware; that's why I specified "serious" weakness. Their lowest resistance has 76 base (can get slightly lower with certain items), while enemies often have their lowest weakness much worse.

That said, Saturos's Mercury weakness is 72, which isn't a whole lot lower. On the other hand, his other resistances are all 100 or higher, so there's more of a relative difference.

I'm curious though, is the one with lowest resistance marked as their weakness (as in, the message has !!! when displayed), or they can be different (as in, raw damage is greater for one, but another still gets a damage boost and !!! message display).

[Othin]

I'm curious though, is the one with lowest resistance marked as their weakness (as in, the message has !!! when displayed), or they can be different (as in, raw damage is greater for one, but another still gets a damage boost and !!! message display).

It's the former. The game just checks if the element is the one you have the lowest weakness to, and if so, it displays the !!!, as well as giving the flash and Exp/coin bonuses if you kill an enemy with a Djinn of that element. So if you give Garet Venus Djinn, his weakness switches from Venus to Jupiter, because that will be his lowest resistance.

It should even be possible to make a character weak to their own element with the right setup. Venus Adepts have a base Venus resistance of 114, and their other resistances are 88/87/86 at base. (Seems I was mistaken earlier - 76 is the lowest base elemental power, but the resistances each get +10, so Ivan has the lowest base Mercury resistance at 86.) Meanwhile, the item Storm Gear gives characters +30 Mars/Jupiter/Mercury resistances. So give it to Isaac without any Djin and his Venus/Mars/Jupiter/Mercury resistances will be 114/116/118/117, leaving Venus as the lowest, so enemies attacking him with Venus attacks should get the !!! showing. (Or maybe 114/116/117/118, not sure, but it shouldn't make a difference for this consideration.)

This has other implications. For example, Piers has base Venus/Mars powers of 78/77, while Sheba has base Venus/Mars powers of 77/78. Giving them each one Venus Djinn and one Mars Djinn, Piers winds up in the (Venus-based) Seer class, while Sheba winds up in the (Mars-based) Pilgrim class. And of course, adding one Djinn of their affinity element, their lowest power, on top of this, yields no results at all.

Edited March 2, 2012 by Othin