So I just beat the first Golden Sun...

[Stark]

That was, quite possibly, the most disappointing ending to any game I've ever played. I mean, I get that there's a sequel that continues the story, but wow, that just shoves it completely in your face. I completed it in 18 hours, at level 27, and it feels like I should be barely halfway through the game. I can get around the fact that the gameplay is pretty much bog standard JRPG and the overall low difficulty, but the storyline was a huge disappointment. Looking back, it feels like the middle half of the game in between the two lighthouses was just extended filler, and when the story finally started to ramp up again, bam, it's done. We barely got any screentime at all for Alex and Sheba (who you don't so much as see until the final battle), and even Felix didn't get the development he needed. It's sad, because I feel like the overarching plot had a lot of potential, but the array of flat characters really killed it for me.

Anyway, I'm still going to play TLA when I get a chance, but color me unimpressed with the first game. I really don't see how it gets so much praise.

[General Horace]

Well Golden Sun 1 and 2 were supposed to be one game but they split it up because they felt it would be too long a game.

[Original Alear]

We barely got any screentime at all for Alex and Sheba (who you don't so much as see until the final battle), and even Felix didn't get the development he needed.

I realize you may dislike that the game is so heavily reliant on the sequel to develop characters, but essentially that's the horse you're beating with this quote - all these characters get more focus in the next game (well, Felix doesn't really develop as a character, but his motivations get explained). However, I do agree that I don't really understand the high acclaim for the Golden Sun series...TLA is better than the original though.

Edited February 12, 2012 by Jet Black Gunner

[Othin]

It feels that way because you are halfway through the game. Of course things aren't resolved yet.

[Ansem]

I felt the same. Like wtf that was it? Not much gameplay =/

[Stark]

I realize you may dislike that the game is so heavily reliant on the sequel to develop characters, but essentially that's the horse you're beating with this quote - all these characters get more focus in the next game (well, Felix doesn't really develop as a character, but his motivations get explained). However, I do agree that I don't really understand the high acclaim for the Golden Sun series...TLA is better than the original though.

It feels that way because you are halfway through the game. Of course things aren't resolved yet.

I guess there's nothing for it but for me to get The Lost Age as soon as possible. I guess my main problem was that the most interesting part of the story for me was Felix's party... but in the end here's what it amounted to.

Saturos & Mernardi- We're mustache twirling villains doing EVIL THINGS... and we really don't have any more personality then that.

Felix- My motives are completely and totally unclear, even after the ending.

Alex- I can float and teleport (Why can't Mia do that, anyway?) and I have some sort of relationship with Mia. But don't worry, because you'll literally never see me again after the Mercury Lighthouse.

Sheba- If I hadn't heard her name as a playable character in the sequel already, I would probably have gone "Seriously, who the FUCK is Sheba?" in the last few areas of the game. I may have misssed some background information regarding her as well, but it was kind of hard to care much when everyone is going on about her and you really don't even know who she is.

Kraden- This may be a mistake on my part, but is it ever explained what sort of relationship there is between Babi and Kraden? I was seriously interested when Babi said "You know Kraden?" in the cave, but then he was just glossed over in their conversation later. I'm guessing this is just another thing developed in the sequel.

So yeah, overall, I guess the only answer is to just play the next game, but I think it's kind of poor that so much is just left totally unexplained. In some ways, it really felt like there were only 3 plot developing scenes in the entire game: Vale, Mercury Lighthouse, and Venus Lighthouse, with a few other shorter scenes thrown in to develop Ivan.

Edited February 12, 2012 by Stark

[Othin]

Yeah, personally, I would only recommend playing the first after getting the second to start playing it immediately afterward... which is annoying, certainly. I'd say it's worth it, though.

But yeah, all of the things you're asking about get addressed in the sequel.

[Momo]

the funny thing is Golden Sun 2's ending is fucking stupid and terrible

[Othin]

the funny thing is Golden Sun 2's ending is fucking stupid and terrible

That's unnecessarily harsh.

I agree that a couple of parts weren't written well, but I personally loved the

[spoiler=Ending Spoilers]lighting of the last lighthouse and Mount Aleph scene.

Edited February 12, 2012 by Othin

[Shuuda]

Please don't make spam posts, Othin. Consider yourself verbally warned. That said, I for one liked the ending of The Lost Age.

[spoiler=The Lost Age Spoilers]Dat Alex!

Edited February 12, 2012 by Shuuda

[Momo]

That's unnecessarily harsh.

I agree that a couple of parts weren't written well, but I personally loved the

[spoiler=Ending Spoilers]lighting of the last lighthouse and Mount Aleph scene.

Wise one: I can not interfere with you guys.

*summons giant dragon*

Wise one: Oh by the way, that wasn't just a dragon, it was your parents.

And then in the very same scene:

Wise one: You must stop Alex, as I can not do anything to help.

*credits roll*

Wise one: You know what, fuck it, I'll just do it myself.

Alex: I have no definable goal and now I will have this power!

Wise one: *zap*

What I'm saying is the writers clearly phoned that in entirely.

[Original Alear]

Alex: I have no definable goal and now I will have this power!

Personally, I have no definable goal and I would still like to have godlike powers. As for Alex, his definable goal throughout the game was to get those godlike powers - we don't know whether he had any plans about what to do with them, so we don't know the entirety of his plans, but we know he wanted power. That being said, Alex at one point heals your party in order to help you protect Mia, even though he says he is too weak to do anything himself. Thus, I don't think it's fair to say he has no definable goal even without knowledge of what he wanted to do with the powers he received at the end of the game.

As for the Wise One's interference, he couldn't directly interfere in the lighting of the lighthouse, but once Alex got the power of the Golden Sun, he was able to interfere because Alex was on his level. That being said, I do think it was stupid that the doom dragon was made from people from Vale somehow.

Edited February 13, 2012 by Jet Black Gunner

[Momo]

Personally, I have no definable goal and I would still like to have godlike powers. As for Alex, his definable goal throughout the game was to get those godlike powers - we don't know whether he had any plans about what to do with them, so we don't know the entirety of his plans, but we know he wanted power. That being said, Alex at one point heals your party in order to help you protect Mia, even though he says he is too weak to do anything himself. Thus, I don't think it's fair to say he has no definable goal even without knowledge of what he wanted to do with the powers he received at the end of the game.

As for the Wise One's interference, he couldn't directly interfere in the lighting of the lighthouse, but once Alex got the power of the Golden Sun, he was able to interfere because Alex was on his level. That being said, I do think it was stupid that the doom dragon was made from people from Vale somehow.

He's the closest thing the games have to a main villain and yet we know absolutely nothing about him. You can't build up a character like that and have him killed off before he gets to do anything. Reading his mind early in the second game, he says something along the lines of "You'll know my true intentions soon", and yet we never do. He's always Alex the mysterious asshole.

Also, the dragon had Isaac's dad in it. No buildup or anything to hint he's still alive, just *poof* now you have your dad back. Bleh.

[Othin]

What are you talking about? Isaac and Kraden were theorizing about Kyle possibly being alive from the end of the meeting in Contigo.

As for Alex, he's clearly not dead. It was obvious from the end of the second game that his story wasn't finished, and as much as I'm apathetic about the third game, it establishes that he's alive and working on something else. It's not clear exactly what yet, but the third game is shown to be another part of an incomplete story certainly to be addressed more in the fourth game.

[Momo]

He has had THREE GAMES to show his intentions. Even if they originally wanted the first two to be one, it did not end up that way and we got two shitty, half assed games. I'm completely convinced they're writing it as they go along, and Alex has no real goal.

[Acacia Sgt]

What are you talking about? Isaac and Kraden were theorizing about Kyle possibly being alive from the end of the meeting in Contigo.

Actually, it wasn't theorized. Jenna at almost the beginning of TLA clearly said they were lighting the lighthouses to 'save' them. Then at Contigo they did told Isaac and co. that no one actually died back in the storm. And when you reach Prox, some people comment how the three had suddenly disappeared and were nowhere to be found.

Granted, they turning into the dragon was the only thing that was not foreshadowed, unless you stretch it with Karst and Agatio being turned into the Flame Dragons by the Wise One, but they being alive was already confirmed way back.

[Othin]

Actually, it wasn't theorized. Jenna at almost the beginning of TLA clearly said they were lighting the lighthouses to 'save' them. Then at Contigo they did told Isaac and co. that no one actually died back in the storm. And when you reach Prox, some people comment how the three had suddenly disappeared and were nowhere to be found.

Granted, they turning into the dragon was the only thing that was not foreshadowed, unless you stretch it with Karst and Agatio being turned into the Flame Dragons by the Wise One, but they being alive was already confirmed way back.

Felix and Jenna's parents being alive was confirmed beforehand, but I was referring specifically to Kyle. Kyle being alive was not confirmed, which seems odd as Felix should have been able to find out while he was in Prox, but regardless, it was not confirmed. At the meeting in Contigo, they mentioned again that Jenna and Felix's parents were alive (why the hell didn't they get names is my question), and indeed Kraden mentioned that "no one" died in that storm. At that point, Isaac questions him about if that means Kyle was alive, and Kraden admits that he wasn't sure, but he thinks so. I know that people in Prox mention that the parents disappeared, but I don't remember if they confirm that there were three of them, that Kyle was included.

As for them being turned into the dragon, it was technically "foreshadowed" moments before the battle in Kraden's speech: he had figured out that a three-headed dragon must be made of three people, after the previous final battles with Saturos and Menardi and with Agatio and Karst, and he tried to explain it to the team, but they were too focused on the fight to listen.

[Acacia Sgt]

Felix and Jenna's parents being alive was confirmed beforehand, but I was referring specifically to Kyle. Kyle being alive was not confirmed, which seems odd as Felix should have been able to find out while he was in Prox, but regardless, it was not confirmed. At the meeting in Contigo, they mentioned again that Jenna and Felix's parents were alive (why the hell didn't they get names is my question), and indeed Kraden mentioned that "no one" died in that storm. At that point, Isaac questions him about if that means Kyle was alive, and Kraden admits that he wasn't sure, but he thinks so. I know that people in Prox mention that the parents disappeared, but I don't remember if they confirm that there were three of them, that Kyle was included.

As for them being turned into the dragon, it was technically "foreshadowed" moments before the battle in Kraden's speech: he had figured out that a three-headed dragon must be made of three people, after the previous final battles with Saturos and Menardi and with Agatio and Karst, and he tried to explain it to the team, but they were too focused on the fight to listen.

Actually, it goes as...

Kraden : In fact, nobody was killed by the boulder that day!

Isaac : So that means...

Ivan : Wait a minute, Kraden... Did you just say that NOBODY was killed

by that boulder?

Mia : But what about Isaac's dad? And Jenna and Felix's parents?

I thought they'd died that day!

Isaac : I'm not so sure now...

Kraden : Yes! If Felix survived, Kyle and the others may have as well...

Nowhere was it stated that there was doubt if Kyle alone survived or not. And okay, Prox's script only mentions Felix and Jenna's parents, but that could be mainly since they are directly addressing Felix. And they only know Isaac by name, judging from the scene with Puelle and the Elder, so they wouldn't expect to know Isaac is with him.

Yes, I know Kraden realized too late and wasn't able to say it before. I just didn't consider it as foreshadowing. Maybe I just think it was too little of a time frame before the reveal to count.

[Original Alear]

He's the closest thing the games have to a main villain and yet we know absolutely nothing about him. You can't build up a character like that and have him killed off before he gets to do anything. Reading his mind early in the second game, he says something along the lines of "You'll know my true intentions soon", and yet we never do. He's always Alex the mysterious asshole.

In the case of that mind reading sequence, his intention might have just been getting the powers of the golden sun, though I admit I doubt that - it could easily be something more, like a generic "I will rule the world" desire. But, the main thing I disagree with here is that he is the closest thing the series has to a main villain. He never does anything antagonistic towards the party in either game, unlike the Mars Adepts, and he even lends a slight amount of support at Jupiter Lighthouse even though he considers himself too weak to help save Mia. While apparently quite power hungry, we have no reason to suspect that he is evil, therefore he does not make a very good candidate for the role of villain. At least the Mars Adepts tried to kill the party, in GS1 on a whopping 2 occasions and only once in GS2. Both groups of Mars Adepts were also treacherous dastards. Saturos and Menardi also kidnapped Sheba and killed some Tolbi soldiers. Not exactly arch-villains, honestly...but overall, I liked the fact that they didn't become childkillers at the start of the series.

Edited February 14, 2012 by Jet Black Gunner

[Blitz]

Kraden- This may be a mistake on my part, but is it ever explained what sort of relationship there is between Babi and Kraden? I was seriously interested when Babi said "You know Kraden?" in the cave, but then he was just glossed over in their conversation later. I'm guessing this is just another thing developed in the sequel.

Kraden's back story was explained quite well explained

It was explained that Kraden was a smart kid who was taken by Babi because his parents didn't have enough money to send him to learn stuff.Babi took him in and taught him alchemy for all those years and sent him to Mt.Aleph (which we all know about)

[Esau of Isaac]

Honestly, I don't get a lot of the criticism this game gets. It was rightly praised for being a GBA game with so much depth. The battle system and graphics were beautiful, not to mention the amazing soundtrack, and the plot was original as fuck. The fact that you played as kids with super powers and could actually interact with the world around you and even read people's fucking minds was awesome as hell.

I didn't personally think the ending was terrible, but it made me jumpy for a second game for the two years or so until the next one came out. And that made me really want a sequel to that for years, though after hearing Dark Dawn wasn't a direct sequel I decided to wait to buy it until later on.

[Stark]

Hey, a post that's not full of spoilers I don't dare to look at! Anyway, I've honestly never heard anything but praise for Golden Sun. I'll admit that the original premise of the overall story was really cool, and that was what kept me going, but it was the characterization issues, both in your party and Felix's group that really got me. Psynergy was neat, but some of the coolest powers, like cloak, are used only a few times. And honestly, the game's difficulty is a joke, and the Djnn system is the only good aspect to an otherwise bog standard JRPG system. Anyway, I'm going to be getting TLA very soon, and that seems to be a huge part of the overall experience, so we'll see how I feel after that.

Oh, and as much as I disliked the ending, I've got to admit the Venus Lighthouse theme is amazing.

[Esau of Isaac]

The game gets praise all the time, but it's often accompanied with "Jeez it's overrated," I suppose comparable with such titles as Final Fantasy VII, though for different reasons. Characterization wasn't incredibly amazing, but then it was a GBA game. That there's an in-depth story with real interactions between characters is itself fairly interesting, I would say. And I guess cloak was pretty cool, but dude. Mind reading. You can mind read like everyone. I wish more people would do that in videogames. And I never felt the game's difficulty was a joke. I suppose it wasn't too hard, but it had its fair share of difficult battles. If it's irritation you want along with annoying battles, however, then I suppose The Lost Age will make you jizz your pants. I'm not sure if it can be categorized as difficulty but Air Rock was one of the most irritatingly, long-assedly, stupidly retarded dungeons I have ever gone through in any game. And trust me when I say that is saying something.

I would say The Lost Age is a better game overall, with all content said and done. But I remember the original far more fondly.

[Othin]

I never understood the hate for Air's Rock. It's long, but fun. And with glitches, you can skip the sand maze and half the first descent, so it's not even that long anymore.

I also regard the Water Temple as OoT's biggest highlight, so maybe I just have weird taste in dungeons.

On an unrelated note, Stark, if you think GS1 is too easy, I suggest avoiding GS3. But that might be a good idea anyway, at least for the time being.

Edited February 27, 2012 by Othin

[BrightBow]

Well, I think the main reason for the games popularity is that for a lot of people it's the first game of it's genre they played. The popular Final Fantasy VII was on a Sony console and the N64 didn't have any RPGs like this (or any RPGs for that matter) as far as I remember.

It definitely was for me though, so it is a very memorable game for me even though there is nothing particular amazing about it. Graphics, music and effects were as good as it gets on the GBA but there was nothing to special beyond that, what I haven't seen a lot in other games since then and the characters are rather simplistic.

However, I actually liked the Antagonists.

They were just as simple, sure. But I think they were used rather effectively. My jaw pretty much dropped when they defeated you in 1-2 rounds in the prologue and it made them intimidating foes for the rest of the game. Heck, when I reached the final dungeon I leveled up to level 30 before I dared to enter it.

During the whole game I always wondered how well I would do when I would have to fight them again. You really felt like you were making progress as you climbed the levels as you came closer to the strength of your opponents and when the Fireball spell that Saturos used so effectively in the past appeared in Garet's psynergy list I rejoiced. Sure, things like this are used a lot in other games but I can't help to think Golden Sun used them particular skillfully.

I mean, if I compare Saturos & Menardi to, let's say, the recurring bosses of Tales of The Abyss: It doesn't matter whether you are level 5 or level 50, those bosses are always just strong enough to challenge you, with no story justification for their varying performances. It reduced it's leveling system to a mere game mechanic rather then being a representation of your actual power. In fact it actually feels like that your opponents are the ones getting stronger, since bosses that earlier couldn't beat you with their allies, suddenly think they can take the party all by themselves after said party grew like 10-30 levels and yet they are somehow so strong that they might actually do it.

In contrast to that, in Golden Sun the only time you actually defeat your opponents before the showdown, there was a story justification for it, and Saturos didn't felt like he became weaker when he fought in a team.

Oh and about Kraden, from what I remember his background is explained by the scholars in the cellar of the castle in Tolbi.

Edited February 28, 2012 by BrightBow