Sunwoo Posted April 3, 2012 Share Posted April 3, 2012 I utterly dislike Soren as a character, but he has some value as a unit. But some. When you first get him, he has fail durability. He's not fast enough to double anything but soldiers and armors. He doesn't even DO that much damage anyway. He has innate adept, so he at least has a chance to 1RKO enemies that he would normally 3HKO, but adept is unreliable. His durability? He will die in at least two hits, and I'm not sure if there's anything that'll actually 1HKO him. Sure, he's a mage, but he's not particularly hitting any harder than Gatrie or Shinon or Titania. Plus, he's a pain to keep alive in his joining map. If you use him, he does improve. Super magic and resistance growth will make him very durable to magic attacks in the long run. His speed is ... passable. 8 base with 40% growth isn't bad, I suppose. However, he should consider himself fortunate that he starts off with a wind tome. 0 base strength and 5% growth in a game where strength determines AS? Yeah ... good luck using anything but wind until promotion! His durability doesn't improve much either. 45% growth in HP with 18 base, 2 defense with 15% growth. His HP at 20/20 doesn't even break 40, for effing sake. He has high skill, but what's he going to do with that? Wind is plenty accurate anyway. He only has two supports: Ike and Stefan. Both have issues. They both take a lot of time. He and Stefan have to be deployed in every chapter for them to get A, and what does Stefan give him anyway? Full hit. Something that Soren does not need. So what about Ike? While I know that certain people LOVE to support these two, it's probably not happening in efficient play! Ike can support with Oscar at least 8 chapters faster and Oscar has a better affinity. Reyson, although he comes in later than Soren, is almost guaranteed to be used and would certainly appreciate the extra avoid. Ike has a plethora of support partners. Soren is a bit of a pain in his starting chapter. If raised, he can contribute helpfully throughout the game. But he will probably always need to be protected to some degree and he won't be using anything heavier than Elwind if he doesn't want to sacrifice his attack speed. 5/10, because he does hit resistance and has forced deployment chapters. (Honestly, I dump him once Ilyana shows up unless I need him deployed or feel like using him, then I dump them both when Tormod comes in. But that is neither here nor there.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shadow Mir Posted April 3, 2012 Share Posted April 3, 2012 (edited) ... he can ORKO Shiharam? News to me! Tormod wasn't even capable of this with whatever stats he had, and I don't think you have a Bolting or a Blizzard by this point in the game. And even if you did, Siege destroys his Speed and Blizzard's x2 multiplier does nothing to help him. If you're talking up close, then that's not a good measure of how good Soren is ~_~ He can't do that to the Chapter 22 boss, either. Also, my argument was based off of the fact that Adept is not reliable. What's more, Shiharam has 45 LP, 14 speed and 13 Res. You'd need 36 Mt to 2hko (AKA, ain't happening). On top of that, he has a Full Guard, meaning that Blizzard won't deal effective damage. Edited April 3, 2012 by Metal King Slime Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anouleth Posted April 3, 2012 Share Posted April 3, 2012 Nice try, but no. He has siege tome utility later on with innate adept dude. He has enough mag to ORKO shiharam and shave a turn. You can also do that with Tormod if you rig a critical hit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PKL Posted April 3, 2012 Author Share Posted April 3, 2012 ... he can ORKO Shiharam? News to me! Tormod wasn't even capable of this with whatever stats he had, and I don't think you have a Bolting or a Blizzard by this point in the game. And even if you did, Siege destroys his Speed and Blizzard's x2 multiplier does nothing to help him. If you're talking up close, then that's not a good measure of how good Soren is ~_~ He can't do that to the Chapter 22 boss, either. Also, my argument was based off of the fact that Adept is not reliable. Believe it not, everyone who thinks Soren is good doesn't really post in this thread. Hmm, maybe ORKO was an exageration. But he can certainly help. I dont remember if he actually ORKO'd Shiharam in the draft I had him but he certainly helped. I recall Tormod KO'ing Shiharam in time for a 2 turn arrive for Jill in the Tellius draft though. (he had Adept) And im fairly certain Soren can ORKO the Chapter 22 boss with Adept or with a Reyson vigor since Ive done it before, same with Tormod with a Spirit Dust and Sothe+Reyson support. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Raven Posted April 3, 2012 Share Posted April 3, 2012 (edited) Yeah and Tormod with Adept does the same thing, so does Marcia with Adept/Killer Lance (or a Killer Lance in general) and countless others if you rig things. Hmm, maybe ORKO was an exageration. But he can certainly help. I dont remember if he actually ORKO'd Shiharam in the draft I had him but he certainly helped. I recall Tormod KO'ing Shiharam in time for a 2 turn arrive for Jill in the Tellius draft though. (he had Adept) And im fairly certain Soren can ORKO the Chapter 22 boss with Adept or with a Reyson vigor since Ive done it before, same with Tormod with a Spirit Dust and Sothe+Reyson support. Tormod had enough Atk to deliver finishing blows (in the teens) to enemies, never doubling. I gave him every spirit dust and a ton of BEXP to make this possible, by the way. Edited April 3, 2012 by Mercenary Raven Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrashGordon94 Posted April 3, 2012 Share Posted April 3, 2012 Just a few questions about the rules. I know "Not X" arguments aren't accepted but can they be used for bias points? And can "They are similar to X so most of the same things apply for them except for A, B and C so they're better/worse" be used? And an unrelated question: If Soren and Lucius made out, would stupid fanboys mistake it for "hot girl on girl action" and get devastated when they found out the truth? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peppy Posted April 3, 2012 Share Posted April 3, 2012 He is quite shaky to use at the start but he can be decent if he gets good enough Magic and Speed. Just have him use the El-Tomes since the A-Rank Tomes and Siege Tomes will weigh him down fast! Not a good candidate for Rexbolt (Lol 14 Wt). Be careful with him too, his defenses suck! I shall give him a 6/10, No Bias! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PKL Posted April 3, 2012 Author Share Posted April 3, 2012 (edited) Yeah and Tormod with Adept does the same thing, so does Marcia with Adept/Killer Lance (or a Killer Lance in general) and countless others if you rig things. who said anything about rigging? EDIT: Ok, It was an exageration, I wasnt looking at stats at the time. Its certainly impossible to ORKO Shiharam with Siege Tomes + Adept. But a 2RKO with Reyson help is certainly really possible if Adept procs at least once. You get 2 tries thanks to Reyson, and if Adept doesnt proc, at least Shiharam is now easier to kill for your flier. Edited April 3, 2012 by PKL Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shadow Mir Posted April 3, 2012 Share Posted April 3, 2012 Just have him use the El-Tomes since the A-Rank Tomes and Siege Tomes will weigh him down fast! You do realize that he'll take a pretty bad AS hit from Elfire and Elthunder, right...? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dark Sage Posted April 4, 2012 Share Posted April 4, 2012 You do realize that he'll take a pretty bad AS hit from Elfire and Elthunder, right...? Who cares about El-tomes when Forges exist? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fallenite Posted April 4, 2012 Share Posted April 4, 2012 yeah call me a stickler, but i disagree with comparing one class with another, especially if said classes are on opposite ends of the spectrum (coughMARCIAISAPEG/FALCOKNIGHTNOTAMAGEcough). there's kind of a reason there are different classes, maybe??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ϲharlie Posted April 4, 2012 Share Posted April 4, 2012 Why is that? There's no reason not to compare a pegasus knight to a mage. Both have the same function, that being to kill things. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tiff Posted April 4, 2012 Share Posted April 4, 2012 His start is pretty poor and he has limited opportunities to gain experience because he can't really afford to catch too much enemy attention and he has bad movement. His offensive capabilities do get better but unfortunately he's going to fall further and further behind as your team becomes mount-heavy and he's locked to AK/General movement. 3/10 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrashGordon94 Posted April 4, 2012 Share Posted April 4, 2012 Uhhh, PKL you missed my questions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PKL Posted April 4, 2012 Author Share Posted April 4, 2012 Just a few questions about the rules. I know "Not X" arguments aren't accepted but can they be used for bias points? And can "They are similar to X so most of the same things apply for them except for A, B and C so they're better/worse" be used? And an unrelated question: If Soren and Lucius made out, would stupid fanboys mistake it for "hot girl on girl action" and get devastated when they found out the truth? 1. No 2. Probably. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrashGordon94 Posted April 4, 2012 Share Posted April 4, 2012 So no on both of the similar unit argument and Not X Bias Point? Shit, my Ilyana rating is screwed... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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