Black/White In-Game Tier List

[grandjackal]

I am inclined to agree that Sandile is a gigantic badass. Having two awesome abilities to use helps as well.

[Icon of Sin]

Having trained both, I'll give my nod to Sandile over Drilbur as well. Drilbur's abilities are sadly rather situational : he's a badass in Route 4/Desert Resort, but unless you take away his coverage move or his buff, you'll be without Sandstorm for the rest of the game. Meanwhile, Sandile makes trainers a piece of cake with Moxie or neuters most single encounters with Intimidate. You get a Krookodile later than an Excadrill and you likely won't get Earthquake by the E4, but his abilities are just too good.

All Excadrill really has is making N and Ghetsis a piece of cake by powering up vs. Zekrom/Cofagrigus and sweeping their teams like a boss.

Edited April 23, 2012 by Dio

[Shadow Mir]

I see Cryogonal dropping for being pretty hard to find, even in Winter... Why's it above Pidove, anyways?

[grandjackal]

You get a Krookodile later than an Excadrill and you likely won't get Earthquake by the E4, but his abilities are just too good.

Actually, you can totally get Earthquake before E4. Lucky Egg is a beautiful thing.

I see Cryogonal dropping for being pretty hard to find, even in Winter... Why's it above Pidove, anyways?

Ignoring it's rarity, it's dependent on Ice Beam which has 10 PP. Past that, it has no attacks. As for Pidove, Pidove is just...Unimpressive. Not terrible, but not good either.

[Icon of Sin]

Actually, you can totally get Earthquake before E4. Lucky Egg is a beautiful thing.

Level 54 is a bit high even with the Lucky Egg. Unless, of course, you're talking about maintaining him at a lower stage of evolution for a few levels (IIRC 43 for Sandile and 48 for Krokorok). Or perhaps not training a team of six.

Edited April 23, 2012 by Dio

[Shadow Mir]

Actually, you can totally get Earthquake before E4. Lucky Egg is a beautiful thing.

Ignoring it's rarity, it's dependent on Ice Beam which has 10 PP. Past that, it has no attacks.

Level 54's quite a long time to wait, even WITH Lucky Egg...

...And that makes it all the more of a headscratcher why Cryogonal's above Pidove. Oh, and Cryogonal curls up and dies if any physical attacker even looks at it funny.

Edited April 23, 2012 by Metal King Slime

[grandjackal]

Level 54? We talking about Krookodile, right? Huh...I remember a TM, when you get that? Cause I just did my last run, and Krook had Earthquake before E4.

[Icon of Sin]

Level 54? We talking about Krookodile, right? Huh...I remember a TM, when you get that? Cause I just did my last run, and Krook had Earthquake before E4.

The TM is in Relic Castle, but it's available only after the Elite Four since you need to go through part of Volcarona's maze.

You do get Bulldoze after the fifth gym, which is baby Earthquake with more PP and a Speed drop.

Edited April 23, 2012 by Dio

[Don Draper]

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Edited July 5, 2020 by Don Draper

[OrangeCrush980]

Throh also seems too high. Its quite slow (45 base speed) limiting its ability to sweep. Compare to a Pokemon like Sigilpyh who has similar attack (100 atk vs. 103 spatk), much higher speed (85 vs. 45) and a better movepool. Sawk is great due to ridiculous attack (120) and speed to back it up (85). Throh has neither of these attributes.

I agree with this. Fighting types are great in Unova, but top of S tier is way too generous for Throh considering his bad speed.

[Bluedoom]

Throh also seems too high. Its quite slow (45 base speed) limiting its ability to sweep. Compare to a Pokemon like Sigilpyh who has similar attack (100 atk vs. 103 spatk), much higher speed (85 vs. 45) and a better movepool. Sawk is great due to ridiculous attack (120) and speed to back it up (85). Throh has neither of these attributes.

You forget that Throh learns moves suitable for its speed, and its speed is not a big issue because of its high durability anyway. You cant compare Throh to Sigilyph because: A) Throh is a fighting type and Sigilyph is Psychic/Flying and B) Don't compare Attack with SP Attack in this case. They're two totally different pokemon. Throh totally beats sigilyph in durability, who cares?

Alright, as for movepool, Throh's not bad at all. Revenge/Mountain Storm, Stone Edge/ Rock Slide, Dig and Bide/Return are pretty awesome on it.(Yeah, I've used bide on Throh in like, 3-4 playthroughs, and its never failed me. PEMN, I guess)

You can bet that moveset covers a lot more or at least equal to Sigilyph's.

Lets look at its gym coverage, shall we?

Gym 2: Crushes it

Gym 3: You don't have a rock attack at this point, I think. So its kinda hard. You could try with bide though(it works on the big pokemon like Leavanny real well)

Gym 4: You can use dig to take out Zebstrika, and since Emolga love Volt Switching like crazy, Bide works here too. If you have Sigiyph, it sucks here.

Gym 5: It can take out Krokorok and Excadrill with Revenge/Vital Throw, which is awesome. Sigilyph... can do well against Palpitoad if it knows energy ball(where do you get that TM anyway?)

Gym 6: Sigilyph wins this hands down, but Throh can either use a rock attack or use bide on one of Skyla's pokemon(I know I'm hyping it up, but it srsly works in big battles, no kidding)

Gym 7: Throh wins Hands down. Sigilyph can do something if it knows flamethrower.

Gym 8: If you've got ice beam, Sigylyph can bring the Fraxures down. Otherwise both do normal against it, although Throh has a durability advantage.

Edited April 24, 2012 by Marth

[Smiley Jim]

Taking Jogurt's argument on Throh into account, and some stuff involving Sandile and Drilbur, Throh has been dropped to the top of A tier, and Sandile has been risen above Tepig in S tier. Drilbur's placement is now pending.

Have a nice day.

Edited April 24, 2012 by Mercenary James

[Espinosa]

Throh's stat spread is stupid compared to Sawk. All that attack and speed gone, replaced with mediocre defences and super high HP? It gets hit a lot too, so I guess you'll be using a lot of potions to keep him alive.

[dondon151]

You forget that Throh learns moves suitable for its speed,

still a slow pokemon

and its speed is not a big issue because of its high durability anyway.

sawk never gets hit; throh also wastes more real time if he goes last a lot

You cant compare Throh to Sigilyph because: A) Throh is a fighting type and Sigilyph is Psychic/Flying and B) Don't compare Attack with SP Attack in this case. They're two totally different pokemon. Throh totally beats sigilyph in durability, who cares?

of course we can. this is not who wins in a battle between throh and sigilyph. sigilyph hits about as hard as throh (assuming that opponent pokemon have generally def = spdef, which is a fair assumption) but is much faster and will take fewer hits and waste less time due to higher speed.

buuut they're currently in the same tier; however i guarantee that throh is much more frustrating to play with than sigilyph.

Alright, as for movepool, Throh's not bad at all. Revenge/Mountain Storm, Stone Edge/ Rock Slide, Dig and Bide/Return are pretty awesome on it.(Yeah, I've used bide on Throh in like, 3-4 playthroughs, and its never failed me. PEMN, I guess)

You can bet that moveset covers a lot more or at least equal to Sigilyph's.

revenge: you don't ever want to go last

stone edge: not available until after E4

rock slide: not available until after 6th gym

dig: wastes even more time than throh

bide: ahaha yeah no

how does that movepool even compare with one that has dual STABs (sigilyph gets modestly powerful dual STABs as early as L21), ice beam, shadow ball, and energy ball?

in summary: the amount of retard in this thread going between MKS and marth is through the roof.

[Espinosa]

One problem with Sigilyph is that it is hard to find and catch (5% encounter rate and same catch rate as Tyranitar and Celebi... seriously?). Its dual STABs are not the best you could think of, as psychic and flying moves aren't terribly important against most gyms and elites (I think there's just one elite where it is useful). However, Sigilyph has a rich special attacking coverage aside from its STABs. Still probably a contender for the same tier as Archen.

Timburr should go down as well. Needs a trade to evolve, and is slow.

[Shadow Mir]

One problem with Sigilyph is that it is hard to find and catch (5% encounter rate and same catch rate as Tyranitar and Celebi... seriously?). Its dual STABs are not the best you could think of, as psychic and flying moves aren't terribly important against most gyms and elites (I think there's just one elite where it is useful). However, Sigilyph has a rich special attacking coverage aside from its STABs. Still probably a contender for the same tier as Archen.

Timburr should go down as well. Needs a trade to evolve, and is slow.

Actually, Sigilyph's encounter rate is 10%.

You forget that Throh learns moves suitable for its speed, and its speed is not a big issue because of its high durability anyway. You cant compare Throh to Sigilyph because: A) Throh is a fighting type and Sigilyph is Psychic/Flying and B) Don't compare Attack with SP Attack in this case. They're two totally different pokemon. Throh totally beats sigilyph in durability, who cares?

Alright, as for movepool, Throh's not bad at all. Revenge/Mountain Storm, Stone Edge/ Rock Slide, Dig and Bide/Return are pretty awesome on it.(Yeah, I've used bide on Throh in like, 3-4 playthroughs, and its never failed me. PEMN, I guess)

You can bet that moveset covers a lot more or at least equal to Sigilyph's.

Lets look at its gym coverage, shall we?

Gym 2: Crushes it

Gym 3: You don't have a rock attack at this point, I think. So its kinda hard. You could try with bide though(it works on the big pokemon like Leavanny real well)

Gym 4: You can use dig to take out Zebstrika, and since Emolga love Volt Switching like crazy, Bide works here too. If you have Sigiyph, it sucks here.

Gym 5: It can take out Krokorok and Excadrill with Revenge/Vital Throw, which is awesome. Sigilyph... can do well against Palpitoad if it knows energy ball(where do you get that TM anyway?)

Gym 6: Sigilyph wins this hands down, but Throh can either use a rock attack or use bide on one of Skyla's pokemon(I know I'm hyping it up, but it srsly works in big battles, no kidding)

Gym 7: Throh wins Hands down. Sigilyph can do something if it knows flamethrower.

Gym 8: If you've got ice beam, Sigylyph can bring the Fraxures down. Otherwise both do normal against it, although Throh has a durability advantage.

While you do have some valid points, I don't know what you're trying to gain with Bide hype. Also, I should note the only rock attack you'll have against Skyla is Rock Tomb, which is not only pretty weak, but it's also quite inaccurate.

Edited April 24, 2012 by Metal King Slime

[Bluedoom]

@ dondon: If speed is that important, I say we bring Tepig and Scraggy down. They're slow anyway and Tepig doesnt even learn a stable fighting type move until evolution, and it has to relearn it.

Oh wait fighting types re awesome in Unova. Or why not bring Sandile down? It anyway has Dig as its most powerful ground move for a while, and wastes a turn using it.

Also why would I not want to go last, especially with Throh? Its usually gonna go last anyway, might as well make use of revenge.

I even mentioned how it performs in gyms. Heck it exists in two gyms where Sigilyph does not. It certainly does better than Sigilyph in the Elite Four.

@KS I already said bide is like a last resort mve for throh. ts almost perfect for boss pokemon in gyms, like Leavanny, who hit hard. usually it guarantees a KO. I also stated it was my personal experience, and gave return as a viable substitute for it.

EDIT: Also forgive me if I forget when you get certain TMs, I've not played Black/White in like 10 months.

Edited April 24, 2012 by Marth

[Colonel M]

Tepig and Scraggy are slow; however:

- Tepig has Flame Charge to boost its mediocre Spd anyway.

- Scraggy has the best dual STAB in the game. The Spd is a major drag, but at least it isn't like Throh and uses lolBide.

[Shadow Mir]

@KS I already said bide is like a last resort mve for throh. ts almost perfect for boss pokemon in gyms, like Leavanny, who hit hard. usually it guarantees a KO. I also stated it was my personal experience, and gave return as a viable substitute for it.

I don't really see Bide as that effective unless the opponent does significant damage durning the time period where it stores energy, and it's not exactly unheard of for the AI to refrain from attcking altogether then. Also, I'd say Throh's bulk clashes with Bide's purpose. Oh, and the aforementioned Leavanny? IIRC, it has Protect.

Edited April 24, 2012 by Metal King Slime

[Elieson]

Bold: I'd make a Yggdra Union reference, but it'd go over everyone's head but eclipse's.

Other than that, I don't relly have too much to say, other than Poison Jab wouldn't hit as hard as Gyro Ball even if it was SE.

Not /everyone/, MKS. Milanor would be dissappointed by that statement.

[Bluedoom]

Tepig and Scraggy are slow; however:

- Tepig has Flame Charge to boost its mediocre Spd anyway.

- Scraggy has the best dual STAB in the game. The Spd is a major drag, but at least it isn't like Throh and uses lolBide.

1.Flame Charge is a weak move.

2.I'm not sayin Throh uses Bide all the time, but its a fighting type. Not to forget it can learn payback too and use it almost as good as Scrafty.

Edited April 24, 2012 by Marth

[Shadow Mir]

Not to forget it can learn payback too and use it almost as good as Scrafty.

EDIT: Doh. It's on route 16.

Edited April 24, 2012 by Metal King Slime

[Colonel M]

1.Flame Charge is a weak move.

2.I'm not sayin Throh uses Bide all the time, but its a fighting type. Not to forget it can learn payback too and use it almost as good as Scrafty.

1) No one cares. The general purpose is to fix its mediocre problem while doing damage as a bonus. Throh has no way to patch its terrible Spd movepool-wise.

2. Scrafty still has Crunch and STAB on Payback.

[Colonel M]

Edit: double post balete please.

Edited April 24, 2012 by Colonel M

[Bluedoom]

1) No one cares. The general purpose is to fix its mediocre problem while doing damage as a bonus. Throh has no way to patch its terrible Spd movepool-wise.

2. Scrafty still has Crunch and STAB on Payback.

1) That's about as good as using revenge Throh in any case, because Tepig's Spd will need quite the few Flame Charges to get a good Spd(3 at the most). Factor in crappy defences and I dont wanna spend my timeFlame Charging like crazy.

2) Throh has higher base attack and lower base defence compared to Scrafty, so it may more or less deal the same damage(damage formula into consideration). Crunch is a good point though.

Edited April 24, 2012 by Marth