Lunatic ' - The Masochist's Dreamworld

[Colonel M]

So everyone requested that I should also consider Lunatic' in the mix of things. Of course, one has to simply look at it and state:

But let's go over why I even accepted such a challenge.

1) Very few people have actually claimed to play this difficulty of a mode.

2) Only one person has recorded information about it.

Thus, I've decided to take the reigns behind this one. This is where my disclaimer is going to come in:

Lunatic' is no joke.

I'm afraid I don't kid around when I say that even Prologue chapters can test your thinking powers quite a bit. P-3, P-5, and P-8 were the biggest ones, and they obviously cost me the most turns thus far. While I have kept somewhat steady in some areas, there is obviously a turn count reduction within those areas. Now let's keep in mind - a lot of the reason why mjemerzian was able to do a lot of his strategies was because Armor Knight My Unit had Spd rigged onto his unit. Though I will warn you - you might want to keep a back-up of each chapter handy in this mode. It's extremely unforgiving and the game knows how to punish you well.

Now let me be clear and say that, even without RNG-abuse, it might be possible to get lower turncounts than I did. Perhaps someone like dondon will play this mode and still knock me down turn-count wise, but this mode is really a mode that throws absolute frustration at you if you lack the patience. My fuse is pretty short, and it got short pretty quick on this difficulty.

So the disclaimer merely means that I am attempting efficiency "to the best of my extent", to where I'm not destroying myself over losing turns because this mode is almost a whole new ball park from Lunatic. I'm actually afraid to go a little "too" efficient with it because of just how the enemies scale after Chapter 7 is utterly maddening. I digress, though: we're going to try.

[spoiler=Chapter Links]

[spoiler=Video Links]

Stat Boosters

Turns
P-1 - 4/4
P-2 - 4/8
P-3 - 5/13
P-4A - 4/17
P-5 - 7/24
P-6D - 3/27
P-7C - 4/31
P-8 - 12/43

MU Build:

Class: Armor Knight
Past: Clergy's child [聖職の子] - +2 Def
Present: Diverse [異質さ] - +1 Str, Mag; Str +10%, Mag +10%
Future: Honorable [栄誉者] - Spd +15%, Skl +15%

I don't have the videos yet, though I will hopefully have them up by tomorrow or Friday (I'm doing commentary tomorrow after my Accounting test). Prologue consists of the only chapters that are done, and I will still be doing Lunatic as well as this playthrough. Now be warned - I might have some shaky situations (like in P-8 I did), though to be fair most of it either could be justified with a minor fix or had an alternative to that turn. I do want to show you how a lot of Prologue will look like, though:

Now assuming a regular Level 10 Armor Knight:

29 HP | 14 Str | 0 Mag | 11.5 Skl | 5.5 Spd | 9 Luck | 18 Def | 0 Res

This means My Unit is roughly on the average here. He was +1.5 Def and +1 Str above his norm on P-8, though it didn't matter much as you'll see later on.

The rules are the same as Lunatic's:

- H3 (Lunatic Mode), assuming that Lunatic Mode was done previously

- Stat boosters are allowed, as I believe a person should only be doing an efficient playthrough with them. You can obviously accomplish without them, but it's a bit more difficult.

- Rainbow Potion, Maturity Drop, and Bond Drop are allowed for this playthrough.

- Time-clock events are banned, primarily because the results are too random to reflect what is more likely to happen in a playthrough.

- WiFi Shop is also banned due to the random days to access certain items and weapons, plus the in-game clock cannot be abused to obtain what the player could use or need.

- Efficiency, which entails a low turncount with a high probability of success.

- Minimal resetting, which means no rigging for growths. There may be some exceptions pending on what happens.

Edited April 20, 2012 by Colonel M

[fatgamecat]

Paperblade did a full video walkthrough of it, I believe.

Restarting the first 2 prologues for spd on armor knight MU saves both turn counts and real time. It takes less real time to get those speed points than it does playing through the extra turns needed to turtle up and survive the later prologues, as you found out. In any case, if you're so opposed to restarting chapters, you should just ironman it.

"a lot of the reason why mjemerzian was able to do a lot of his strategies" Once you get through the prologue MU's speed isn't much of an issue - reclass, use rainbow pot, growth drops, stat boosts, etc. So I would say getting through the prologue does not constitute "a lot of my strategies" and you are exaggerating.

"Now let me be clear and say that, even without RNG-abuse, it might be possible to get lower turncounts than I did."

Yes, yes, the developer and game allows something that you don't like, so you're going to give it nasty elitist names. You should go join the Smash Bros community. What you should be saying is "it might be possible to get lower turn counts under the conditions of my run", not singling allowed mechanics out because you don't like them. Once again, the conditions of your run are actually easier than the ones I used.

The early game of FE may be the most difficult part, though. Once you overlevel MU and give him tons of stat boosters he turns into a one man army that can solo half of most mid-game maps while taking almost no damage. That's true even if you didn't restart p1 and p2 for the extra speed points needed not to get doubled during the prologue. Turning MU into a one man army is the key to (edit) getting low turn counts on Lunatic'. You'll have an easier time of it with rainbow pot/growth drop access. There's no question I'd put the growth drops on MU.

Edited April 19, 2012 by mjemirzian

[eclipse]

Speedrunning != efficiency

[Refa]

Speedrunning != efficiency

I think MJ is just saying that it'll be easier and less time and effort for Colonel M in the end.

Not saying that I agree with it, but I don't think he was talking about speedrunning in particular.

[grandjackal]

Funny thing is, I'm trying this from a different angle from armor knight. Or at least looking into it. I'm just starting with looking into things. Decided to start with classes that don't get countered on player phase like Archer. Turncount is definitely an issue with that class, but I suppose that should have been obvious. Went with Orphan/Mighty/Honorable. If I had +1 Def I think I could save a couple turns from like P-1 and 2, but you'd still have really crappy turncounts.

This mode is just...Weird.

[Paperblade]

I did a video of my blind Lunatic run, but didn't record my Lunatic' playthrough

[FabledTome]

The early game of FE may be the most difficult part, though.

The prologue isn't a pushover by any means, but........not really.

Once you overlevel MU and give him tons of stat boosters he turns into a one man army that can solo half of most mid-game maps while taking almost no damage.

There are still a lot of chapters where IS trolling the player is boundless, like 14, 16, 20, Medeus' altar at the end, and so on. Piling on the enemies who attack defense and resistance at once with a base in the 40s - which is still too much for even MU to handle alone. Dragons in general - any variety. Forged Glower. The ways lunatic reverse difficulty doesn't become more pleasant/forgiving, but only grows into this extremely grotesque bloodbath where enemies attack first no matter what - so obvious.

Edited April 19, 2012 by FabledTome

[Peppy]

Well... Good luck with this run... This difficulty seems ridiculous...

[Anouleth]

Once again, the conditions of your run are actually easier than the ones I used.

MJ, you say that other people are elitists, but then you come out with stuff like this. Why does it matter if the conditions on some runs are "better" than others, by whatever arbitrary metric you use?

[Colonel M]

Unless you're okay with my "minor rambling" on some of the chapters (I mean not all of it is seriously informative and I made a lot of mistakes), these might not be up until Tuesday. I didn't take notes this time around, so I kind of winged it commentary-wise. It was "okay", but a lot of it is kind of rambling, though to some people's surprise... I did sort of come to mjemerzian's defense in the P-5 video... so...

I won't upload it unless you're actually okay with the commentary being half-assed.

[fatgamecat]

MJ, you say that other people are elitists, but then you come out with stuff like this. Why does it matter if the conditions on some runs are "better" than others, by whatever arbitrary metric you use?

First of all, I never claimed my run was "better", I said it was "more difficult", so I'm not sure why you're equating the two. As for why I pointed it out, he's calling what I did RNG abuse and fixating on it to the exclusion of the other more difficult conditions such as no rainbow pots/drops, get all recruits/items, get an all A score at the end of the game, etc. I felt that was an unfair and false assessment of its difficulty, and honestly there aren't many other lunatic reverse runs to compare mine to.

[Colonel M]

*Sigh*

Prologue 1-4A

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5NxlI2xfpdE

And yes, obviously, the beginning is a joke. Probably P5-P7C is the last time I'll pull the "RNG-manipulation" joke. I hope. And bear in mind this one might be a "little" too loud, so crank the volume down a bit.

Turns:

P1 - 4/4

P2 - 4/8

P3 - 5/13

P4A - 4/17

I'm not going to break down the strategies unless requested; at least for Prologue. At least not quite like Lunatic's.

P-1

Pretty easy to do. Choosing the setup I have, you should only need a Vulnerary use tops in this chapter. Just keep walking towards Jeigan and use the Vulnerary on Turn 3 near him. You should be able to attack him as shown in the video on Turn 4.

P-2

A Str proc is necessary for a 4 Turn or Ryan dies, so consider that carefully. You have a 50% Str growth, so chances are it's in your favor, though there is a 25% chance to miss it in two levels, of course. If you miss it and don't want to bother resetting, make sure that AK!MU doesn't pull Rody and have Ryan chill on the fort for a little bit. He just has to have enough health to take on Rody on a turn in this case. Ryan will need about 11 HP. I guess you could use a Vulnerary on a fort, but still.

P-3

This one has an extra turn tacked onto it. Don't really listen too much about what the video said about having MU pull Caeda - just have Luke do it so you don't have to reset so much for the Fighter. It might be best to look at the right-hand Fighter having 30 HP... but IIRC it isn't necessary. 5 Turn is about the lowest I could get. 4 Turn seems only possible with the 2 Spd procs.

P-4A

Nothing really changes here aside from My Unit now being able to stomach all the swordie enemies and takes a double dent from Soldiers. I wouldn't recommend Jeroge's route - it's just too messy to clog the Archers and Jeorge is a bitch. Not to mention you lose out on a rather fast unit.

[Colonel M]

P-5-P7C

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WXcllkpwDIY

Turns:

P5 - 7/24

P6D - 3/27

P7C - 4/31

P-5

After further realizing it, I could've 6 Turned this chapter by having Luke use the Vulnerary. .

I honestly couldn't figure out a better way to do this chapter than how I did. I think this one actually requires almost 3 Spd procs to do it with Armor Knight. It's just a shame everyone else takes a beating. I could explain how the strategy works here... or just watch the video for it. Unless you want me to explain it, that's fine.

Also keep in mind what I said in the video is kind of a joke or wasn't completely intentional (like AK!MU sucking). AK!MU does kind of suck, but mainly outside of Lunatic' IMO. If that makes sense.

P-6D

Don't even think about Ogma's route. You'll get so boned there.

Nothing too different otherwise. Athena should be fielded for killing Soldiers.

P-7C

Only difference is Merric blocks the south fort, My Unit takes on the Myrmidon and Archer on the south, and MU gets the kill on Cain.

=====

By the way, I'm looking for opportunities to possibly dual commentary / interview / doing anything of the sort with these videos somewhere in the line. I definitely look forward to suggestions on what you guys would like.

OR if you would like to be part of a dual commentary / interview, let me know. I will probably pick them individually, case-by-case basis, and possibly with a small priority system towards my favorite tyrants first, but don't feel deterred to throw an offer!

Edited April 21, 2012 by Colonel M

[FionordeQuester]

Well, in any case, nice job on this Colonel M! I'll definetly be looking forward to more! And don't worry about your commentary, in fact, I'm actually pretty amazed that you could commentate so fluidly without constantly saying things like "uh...", "so...so yeah", and "um...", and so on and so forth. I could never do that in one go without having extremely long pauses in the commentary, hence why the commentary you see in my videos is actually spliced together from multiple takes.

[Parrhesia]

OR if you would like to be part of a dual commentary / interview, let me know. I will probably pick them individually, case-by-case basis, and possibly with a small priority system towards my favorite tyrants first, but don't feel deterred to throw an offer!

I seriously have no idea what I'd bring to the table, but I'm interested. My hours don't gel that well with the States, but I'm willing to stay up/wake up early.

But yeah, I'm finding these really fascinating.

[Thor Odinson]

I could do your karaoke instead

I'll probably reference the hell out of this once I finish Lunatic and start Lunatic'.

[Ciarre]

After further realizing it, I could've 6 Turned this chapter by having Luke use the Vulnerary. .

For P5, I moved knight!MU down on the fort from where he starts and I got 5-6 turns iirc. Still, great job though :D /is stuck on chapter 3

[fatgamecat]

Here's another good lesson on different playthrough conditions. You finished the Lunatic' prologue in about 5 turns more than I did, but that doesn't mean my run was more efficient or optimized, because we played under different conditions. You'd have to play under the conditions of my run and try to optimize that to see if you can beat that turn count. The point is, even though we played under different conditions, both runs are valid and worth considering strategies for.

Since you just had to make fun of my run yet again.. The amount of elitist arrogance over the 2 or 3 speed points of RNG reloading I did for MU is completely unwarranted and absurd. Oh noes, someone played FE in a way you didn't like, time to break out the pitchforks. Here's an idea, go play a 100% determinstic game instead of complaining every time someone gets lucky or unlucky growths or restarts a chapter because they didn't like the growths they got. The developers could easily design a FE where you had to ironman it and deal with every RNG and mistake you made (see The Witcher 2's ironman mode for a recent example), but guess what - restarting chapters or from mid-game save points is an allowed mechanic in FE12. Deal with it.

[I.M. Gei]

sigh

Edited April 21, 2012 by Black★Rock Shooter

[Anouleth]

Deal with it.

Smashfanatic mode activated!

[FionordeQuester]

MJEmirzian, you've made your point. Nobody's trying to argue with you anymore I don't think, so I don't think you're helping your case any by doing this. I've briefly skimmed over some of the debates you've been having with Colonel M, and even though I think most of you guys have had your bouts of immature bickering (seriously, how do comments like "SMASH FANATIC MODE ACTIVATED!" do anything to help this situation?), you're the one who's been continuing this argument. And honestly, from my standpoint, Colonel M's jab at you at the beginning of the previous thread seemed like nothing but a harmless joke to me...

I'm not trying to judge you. I know what it's like to have someone diss you, or make fun of you regarding your viewpoints. You want to continue the argument SO BADLY, that every second that passes with you doing nothing, your mind is like a car trying to drive without any gas in it, it's gears just grinding together incessantly...

And no, I'm not making fun of you, I'm just telling you what similar situations have been like for me. I'm projecting myself onto you, in other words...

But you have to understand, you've made these guys irritated and annoyed, and as long as they are like that, it's going to be much harder to explain yourself, or convince them of anything. I don't know who's in the right here, but even if it's you, you're not going to get anywhere keeping this up. So...I recommend taking a short break, and, if you wish, coming back and saying the same thing, but without saying anything that might put any blame on anyone. Maybe just say, "what you said made me feel upset", and not adding on too much of anything else.

Edited April 21, 2012 by FionordeQuester

[Parrhesia]

Yes, MJ. The way to prove that you truly do not give a shit about something is to shitpost in the thread repeatedly without adding anything new or responding to anything. We are definitely convinced that you aren't incredibly butthurt at all.

[FionordeQuester]

^And how is that helping us to resolve this?

[Lord Raven]

Because if the FE fandom's good at anything, it's resolving an argument.

[FionordeQuester]

Ok...but how is that post in particular helping us? Is it going to suddenly make MJEmirzian ashamed of himself, and say "Really? Jeez, and all this time, I thought yelling about how I don't care was the best way of saying that I don't care...man do I feel dumb".

You're essentially calling him stupid, and whether he is or not, that's not going to make him feel like he's not being made fun of, which, if I remember correctly, is what started this whole thing in the first place.

Edited April 21, 2012 by FionordeQuester