Stop Crying Psych Minimafia - Night 2

[Percivalé]

oh sorry my vote was kind of hidden there ):

yeah I kind of feel uncomfortable how these votes on bal suddenly piled up

[Percivalé]

alsooooo I hope we see more from Obviam soon because his single post is rubbing me the wrong way too

[Prims]

Obviam always rubs me the wrong way, if Choral IV is any indication. Even when I'm reading him talk outside of Mafia. I don't even know him.

[Helios]

Uhh can someone explain real quick what L-1 means?

Also ##Unvote

I'd like to see a little more from him, however if he's got school and stuff that's a reasonable reason to not be around for a while, so I get that.

Where the hell did Obviam and Psych go?

[Prims]

L-1 means 1 vote away from hammer (lynch).

Any thoughts on the Bal wagon, seeing as it's the main subject right now?

[Percivalé]

All I know is that Obviam has work. He told me during CM4 when he asked to be replaced that it's hard to play because he works full-time and sleeps a lot, so I don't actually know why he joined this game. I don't know about Psych.

I would think that a lot of people are sleeping now though

also L-1 means one away from majority/insta-lynch

[Percivalé]

lol prims ninja'd as expected

[Prims]

so I don't actually know why he joined this game.

Paperblade cybered him for it

[Percivalé]

that would make sense.

[Balcerzak]

##Unvote

##Vote Balcerzak for worst votepark 2012

Helios' response to my NK speculation borders on overreaction, imo. He's still a better kill because he's more decisive than scorri.

Whoa now, I don't always make a habit of meta-checking who's active, and there's nothing to stop people from viewing as guest or anonymous. If you think that was scum move of the year, I'm gonna have to say you're reaching. All I did was scroll down the list of players in the game, and pick someone I hadn't heard from and wanted to hear from. I'm not necessarily sorry to see the OMGUS it triggered coming my way from him as soon as he did show up. Remember to keep an eye on him guys.

From reading through the thread (All 2 pages of chat), the only person who seems suspicious is Bal. He's going pretty agressive, which is... more different than the last game I played with him? Either way, he seems a bit too scum-hunt happy. I'm not the only person who is thinking this way, either.

##Vote: Balcerzak

People remarked, either directly or indirectly implied, that they were unhappy with my performance in the last game, and it wasn't like the didn't have good reason to. I didn't go in and give 100% like I should have, and it showed. I definitely have two waves of gameplay, that are not especially indicative of scum or town. I mean, in Choral Mafia IV I pretty much played my heart out, and was if not the top poster for the entire game, was certainly top five. Town role there. On the other hand, you have my more lethargic games, one of which you just witnessed. I'd reckon I'm one of the harder players to get a meta read on, but maybe that's an unsuited display of overconfidence.

Not to mention I can't seriously be the only person who's done anything the slightest bit suspicious. Don't tunnel, make sure you can branch out and observe everyone's actions and reactions.

My god everyone forgets about me. I somehow doubt that should be the reasoning behind people being killed. If that was the case, I should have been the first to go, not scorri. Remember that I pretty much masterminded most of it last game. I don't like this reasoning at all.

I didn't forget about you man, but you didn't turn up dead in the middle of town square this morning, so anyone's possible motives for killing you don't apply, because you're not dead.

Yeah, sure. Our random N1 kill last game was for a petty reason, because it would have made it hard to figure out who would have done such a thing. Sometimes you need a petty reason when you have absolutely nothing else to go on. Maf had nothing to go on N1, so what else would they have to go on? Recall above, how I said that it's unlikely they would have picked scorri because of last game. They could have done what we did, pick someone at random. And there would be nothing any of us could assume from that.

You sound like you know exactly what is going on. And I really don't like that.

##Vote: Bal

I rest my case.

There a difference between a petty reason, and resorting to RNG. RNG is fair and unbiased. Petty reasons are practically by definition the opposite. Also, for the love of reading comprehension, does the fact that I said "this is a shitty reason, designed only to get me to cast the first vote, in the random voting stage, where all reasons behind the votes are inherently ridiculous, unless they are purely RNG'd" not register with any of you? Bizz at least has vibes, and Prims has his own reasons, but I'd like the rest of you to serious sit down and think about what you're doing here.

Without reading the post: Since Manix forgot, BAL IS AT L-1 DON'T HAMMER HIM THIS EARLY

Much appreciated moment of sanity here. You all can't seriously want to hammer this quickly. We town members need to spend as much of the day as possible deliberating and accumulating a body of evidence, and facts that will form the basis for research and cross-checking to expose discrepancies, false testimony, or correlative voting habits in the days to come. And I'm not claiming up and until there is a serious and credible threat you're actually going to follow through and lynch me. It's simply not beneficial to the town.

Don't interpret this to mean I won't claim if I must, because I will. Town is much better off with me alive than in the graveyard.

alsooooo I hope we see more from Obviam soon because his single post is rubbing me the wrong way too

Yeah, I can echo this. I have no reads on Obviam at the moment. No information makes me want to get more information.

Is there anything else I can help you with? I was thinking about maybe checking in for the night soon, but maybe I need to continue to defend myself awhile longer... :S

[Percivalé]

Don't interpret this to mean I won't claim if I must, because I will. Town is much better off with me alive than in the graveyard.

ugh fuck fuck fuck

##Unvote

Okay, I'll admit, I do have a thing about Bal's style and how if he's posting shorter posts than it sometimes indicates he's scum, which was the cause of the vibes, and then the post of his that I quoted that really cemented my suspicion. It just seemed like he was acting really out of character and he started the Helios semi-wagon that got people to vote for little to no reason, including

##Vote: Obviam, who snuck a vote in the middle of a few unmemorable ramblings and then disappeared. It still bothers me.

Slight town vibes from Ether, and I actually don't know about prims.

[Grace]

Okay, so let me explain by thoughts behind Bal.

I just think that he knows almost too much. But if what he says about his role is true, then we can't afford it, because town only has 3 power roles.

hmmmmm

actually, let's grab this:

Don't interpret this to mean I won't claim if I must, because I will. Town is much better off with me alive than in the graveyard.

This basically puts a big "kill me mafia!" sign on you by saying this. I'm willing to relent right now, but if you somehow don't die tonight, be sure I'll be suspicious (not including a doc prevention). Maybe the possibly non-existent doc could protect Bal this phase? Iunno.

So on that note, I'm willing to believe town!Bal. He didn't overreact that much, merely defended himself in a logical way.

hm. now who to vote? I'm really not sure.

[Psych]

##Vote Ether

I've been mulling this over, and I just think he was trying to get an easy target and push a lynch by over reaction. It just seems like we react more to bigger posts even when they don't really say much. I'm not comfortable with Ether's reaction and I just think it was plain scummy.

[Ether]

##Vote Ether

I've been mulling this over, and I just think he was trying to get an easy target and push a lynch by over reaction. It just seems like we react more to bigger posts even when they don't really say much. I'm not comfortable with Ether's reaction and I just think it was plain scummy.

You're really doing this again? An OMGUS? Maybe if it had just continued from where we left off, maybe that would have been okay. It still wouldn't have really been, but better than now. But instead, you are ignoring the whole Bal spectacle, or at the very least not commenting on it aside from a vague notation that we react to larger posts more. Instead of commenting on that, you go back to my first vibe in the game, calling you out on an idea I didn't agree with, putting the first vote on you, making you L-4, no where close to a lynch, and claim I was trying to get an easy lynch on you? I don't even know what to say at this point, aside from the fact that my vote is staying on you, again.

Anyway, the Bal bandwagon. I really don't like how it sort of came out of nowhere. Prims had to remind Manix that he put Bal at L-1, this is a big point, follow me on this one. If Prims hadn't spoken up, and someone else had voted for Bal, he would have been lynched on the spot. Manix said he didn't notice, which is understandable because of how the wagon built, but I'm still somewhat wary of him because of it. In his defense, he did unvote when Prims brought it up, however.

Now, this leads me to believe that Prims is town. I suppose there is also the possibility that he and Bal are scumbuddies, but I see it as far less likely and not really worth mentioning aside from trivia. Were Prims mafia, he could have just not said anything and hoped for an easy mislynch. Granted, I don't have a lot of experience with Mafia!Prims, so he might have done the same thing regardless of alignment, but I feel good about him right now.

Also gonna mirror the thought that Obviam's stealth vote doesn't look great on his part, but he hasn't said anything else which makes him hard to really say anything else on.

[Psych]

You're really doing this again? An OMGUS? Maybe if it had just continued from where we left off, maybe that would have been okay. It still wouldn't have really been, but better than now. But instead, you are ignoring the whole Bal spectacle, or at the very least not commenting on it aside from a vague notation that we react to larger posts more. Instead of commenting on that, you go back to my first vibe in the game, calling you out on an idea I didn't agree with, putting the first vote on you, making you L-4, no where close to a lynch, and claim I was trying to get an easy lynch on you? I don't even know what to say at this point, aside from the fact that my vote is staying on you, again.

Anyway, the Bal bandwagon. I really don't like how it sort of came out of nowhere. Prims had to remind Manix that he put Bal at L-1, this is a big point, follow me on this one. If Prims hadn't spoken up, and someone else had voted for Bal, he would have been lynched on the spot. Manix said he didn't notice, which is understandable because of how the wagon built, but I'm still somewhat wary of him because of it. In his defense, he did unvote when Prims brought it up, however.

Now, this leads me to believe that Prims is town. I suppose there is also the possibility that he and Bal are scumbuddies, but I see it as far less likely and not really worth mentioning aside from trivia. Were Prims mafia, he could have just not said anything and hoped for an easy mislynch. Granted, I don't have a lot of experience with Mafia!Prims, so he might have done the same thing regardless of alignment, but I feel good about him right now.

Also gonna mirror the thought that Obviam's stealth vote doesn't look great on his part, but he hasn't said anything else which makes him hard to really say anything else on.

It's not OMGUS if you pulled it first when you complained about me. Second of all, just because I was L-4 doesn't mean I'm not an easy lynch, and you know that.

You've also brought up the point I wanted to make. It's very possible Prims is Bal's scum buddy and he tried to get the wagon off of him. That seems most likely in my mind. He didn't want Bal lynched, possibly revealing the set up to us so early. I'm pretty sure that wouldn't bode well for the mafia.

It's also possible you're their third buddy, and you'll pulling this in order to have a different voice compared to them and making yourself seem safer. That's another reason I voted for you.

The fact you only want to bring this up as trivial shows me you're not putting a lot of thought into something that is pretty serious and highly possible. My vote stays, regardless of OMGUS or not.

[Ether]

My vote for you wasn't an OMGUS. An OMGUS is voting for someone who voted for you, with the reasoning derived from 'Oh my god guys he voted for me, ME, he must be scum lynch him'

I voted for you because you said something completely idiotic. Anyway, you were in no danger of being lynched because of that vote, and you know that. In fact, my vote would have left you when I came back, likely for Obviam, had you not OMGUS'd me, while completely neglecting the situation at hand.

Now, for your other points. There is a reason I said that while Prims and Bal being scumbuddies was a possibility, that it was incredibly unlikely. And that reason is incredibly simple, in the fact that between the two of them, there should have been little to no chance of anything this sloppy coming up. Now you even want to throw me into the mix as well? I would certainly hope that if the scum team was Me/Bal/Prims, we wouldn't make such a mistake, especially not this early. I'm not delving further into it because I'm confidant that between Prims and Bal, they wouldn't make such a grave mistake on D1, and besides, Prims calling Manix for putting Bal at L-1 when no one else seemed to notice is a town move, in my opinion. Town doesn't want a lynch to happen midday, especially when there is no night-talking, because it stifles the amount of information town has to work with.

[Balcerzak]

Okay, so let me explain by thoughts behind Bal.

I just think that he knows almost too much. But if what he says about his role is true, then we can't afford it, because town only has 3 power roles.

hmmmmm

actually, let's grab this:

This basically puts a big "kill me mafia!" sign on you by saying this. I'm willing to relent right now, but if you somehow don't die tonight, be sure I'll be suspicious (not including a doc prevention). Maybe the possibly non-existent doc could protect Bal this phase? Iunno.

So on that note, I'm willing to believe town!Bal. He didn't overreact that much, merely defended himself in a logical way.

hm. now who to vote? I'm really not sure.

Just want to say a couple more words here. Still not claiming, and nothing I say should even be taken as hints for soft-claims. I just want to make sure that other town aren't forgetting crucial details, or misinterpreting.

Even a vanillager knows he is worth more to Town alive than dead. Especially on the first lynch push of the game. If there were a cleared player, or some actual claimed role, then there would be an internal weighing game. But with all other factors not existing, the one thing a vanillager knows is that he is town, and anybody else is up in the air. Town is best served by not mislynching. "Town is much better off with me alive than in the graveyard," would be an entirely valid claim to make. Not to mention the possible arguments about player skill. One might claim that a vanillager Prims would be more useful in many situations than a power-role Psych.

Also, speaking of "almost knowing too much", you complete disregard that if I were a power role, I could very well be a bomb and thus not care if I'm targeted for a kill tells much. It's almost as if you were sure that the setup didn't include the bomb, which would be information that only the mafia could possess at this stage.

[Prims]

Psych, save the associative tells for after people flip scum pls. Also, yeah I obviously don't want Bal dead, that's why I'm voting him. <________<

Speaking of which, vote stays on Bal because seriously who the hell makes a really blatant defensive breadcrumb when town hasn't even been given a chance to respond to the actual defense post yet. People still could have moved off of you without the softclaim, that's really scummy and probably an intimidation tactic. Town PRs don't draw roadmaps to themselves and I don't think you're a bomb. Cut by "I never said I was a PR", but that line was still very obviously intended to sound like a softclaim.

I also wish Manix would have provided something more solid after the unvote.

[Helios]

Alright so my thoughts:

I don't think Bal and Prims are scumbuddies. Not gonna rule out the possibility, but as others have said before it seems pretty unlikely. Prims' logic before was that if someone should have been killed, it should have been a more experienced player, therefore I'm not seeing why he would have killed scorri of all people. Also, I think people are reading too much into Bal's (not so great, but I can see where he's coming from based on the situation) vote on myself, but it's expected seeing as it's most of what we have to work with right now. Since then though, I think he's given good reasoning to defend himself and I think I'd wait another phase or two before lynching him (by then we should know if he really does have a powerful town role or not).

I'm not understanding Psych's vote on Ether; if someone's having bad logic right now it's him. I can understand his argument about how he thinks Ether is scum because he's trying to have a different voice, but I thought scum usually try to blend in, therefore wouldn't Ether jump on the Bal bandwagon? Bal is someone for the time being that a lot of the game thought/thinks is scummy, so a scum move would be to hop on the bandwagon, because if that way Bal is lynched and flips town, then town won't get much information from the lynch, and seeing as this is NOC that's not a good thing. However, I'm not really liking Ether's reaction to the vote; he looks a little too annoyed haha. Then again, I suppose I can't blame him for wanting to say "Come on, man!" (in the Keyshaun Johnson voice). Either way that's just an observation, and otherwise Ether looks pretty townish to me so far.

Now someone I'm still wary of is Aere. He came in for a little while, reread the thread, then jumped the Bal bandwagon and shot out. I can understand jumping the wagon, it seemed like the cool thing to do at the time, but his reasoning was so meh-tier relative to everyone elses. I guess he was just about to go to sleep and probably wasn't 100 percent, but right now he's leaning towards the scum-side. I'd like to hear more from him soon (but school's first so make sure you get all that junk out of the way first).

Another note on Bal and his willingness to claim so early...I understand that he's painting a target on his head for scum to kill him, but have you also thought that maybe that's exactly what he wants? Like Manix said, town only has 3 power roles in the game, so losing one of them could be detrimental. However, if Bal claims a power role, and doesn't end up getting counter-claimed (it's a risk, but in reality someone with that power role shouldn't cc anyway because Bal would be a good scapegoat for him) and Mafia kills him, that ensures another night for that person to effectively use their role, which aids the town tremendously. So I suggest people keep that in mind.

[Prims]

Another note on Bal and his willingness to claim so early...I understand that he's painting a target on his head for scum to kill him, but have you also thought that maybe that's exactly what he wants? Like Manix said, town only has 3 power roles in the game, so losing one of them could be detrimental. However, if Bal claims a power role, and doesn't end up getting counter-claimed (it's a risk, but in reality someone with that power role shouldn't cc anyway because Bal would be a good scapegoat for him) and Mafia kills him, that ensures another night for that person to effectively use their role, which aids the town tremendously. So I suggest people keep that in mind.

When somebody softclaims in reaction to being put at L-1 it looks a lot more like they're claiming because they want to avoid a lynch. Plus, being a lynch target decreases the odds of both living to the night and drawing a kill in the first place. He'd be more likely to draw the rolecop than anything else. Doesn't feel like an effective gambit in his situation.

Also, where's your vote?

[Helios]

When somebody softclaims in reaction to being put at L-1 it looks a lot more like they're claiming because they want to avoid a lynch. Plus, being a lynch target decreases the odds of both living to the night and drawing a kill in the first place. He'd be more likely to draw the rolecop than anything else. Doesn't feel like an effective gambit in his situation.

Also, where's your vote?

This is true, and I guess I was thinking of it more as a two-for-one deal. If Bal manages to get the wagon off him and everyone believes that he is in fact a power role, then - as long as he plays well, and he seems pretty confident in himself - he won't be seen any longer as a lynch target. If that's the case, Mafia could be intimidated by the soft-claim (and seeing as how it's pretty early in the game right now they'll have to jump on something) and either kill him or waste their role cop on him. Even if he survives AND they just use the rolecop on him, if he is actually a vanillager, then that's a waste of the rolecop's action. Well not a waste, since I suppose it helps out with the process of elimination, but it's better than them actually finding out a town power role. That's what I feel like Bal's going for at least.

My vote's on Aere I believe, since he hasn't quenched my thirst for knowledge regarding him, and I believe others right now are pressuring Obviam.

[Balcerzak]

Speaking of which, vote stays on Bal because seriously who the hell makes a really blatant defensive breadcrumb when town hasn't even been given a chance to respond to the actual defense post yet. People still could have moved off of you without the softclaim, that's really scummy and probably an intimidation tactic. Town PRs don't draw roadmaps to themselves and I don't think you're a bomb. Cut by "I never said I was a PR", but that line was still very obviously intended to sound like a softclaim.

>Nearly 1/4 of the phase elapsed after defense post, and over half the town have read and either reacted or not to it already

>Not giving town a chance to react

Okay, whatever you say. If I can't convince you, I just have to convince the rest of the town.

However, if Bal claims a power role, and doesn't end up getting counter-claimed (it's a risk, but in reality someone with that power role shouldn't cc anyway because Bal would be a good scapegoat for him) and Mafia kills him, that ensures another night for that person to effectively use their role, which aids the town tremendously. So I suggest people keep that in mind.

This part of the post makes me feel a little uncomfortable. I'm going to come back and reread it later, to see if I'm reading into it the wrong way.

[Prims]

... to my knowledge, your softclaim was in the exact same post as your huge defense toward everybody. If you don't feel like arguing, then 'k I guess. I still think you're scum.

Helios, you unvoted Aere a while ago, iirc.

I Would Like To Hear From Obviam On The Matter. Votals wouldn't hurt, either.

[Helios]

Helios, you unvoted Aere a while ago, iirc.

Oh hell...I honestly forgot. I still want to hear more from him and I don't like his logic for voting Bal, but I think I decided I was gonna forgive him for now because school's more important.

##Vote Aleph/Obviam/Hexator/Dude who made FEditor

Share some opinions or something.

[Balcerzak]

... to my knowledge, your softclaim was in the exact same post as your huge defense toward everybody. If you don't feel like arguing, then 'k I guess. I still think you're scum.

Oh. I think I finally see what you're saying. You made it sound like they were two separate posts.

All I was aiming for was to strike the balance between not claiming, and refusing to cooperate. I didn't want "I'm not gonna claim" to be taken as "Fuck you guys, I'm not gonna cooperate". So I elaborated and gave my reasons.

I can't force you to like the way I play, and the way I play may not be the best, but I don't take getting wagoned up to L-1 lightly, and I'm not about to fail the town OR get grilled in the postgame for not taking the steps needed to make a proper defense. I'd rather be bitched at for over-action than for inaction. Maybe the execution was flawed or needed work, but I never claimed to be perfect.