FE4 Skills Tier List

[Anouleth]

LIFE RING.

Wouldn't healing for 4-12HP usually take you out of Prayer range? Or put you at the edge of it so you only get a small bonus?

Also, you only have one Life Ring.

[Othin]

FE4 Hell does no damage at 1 HP. It's the only attack in the game that can do so without Great Shield involved. Very strange seeing it happen while Celice was charging at Manfroy. Of course, Tyrfing's built-in Prayer then can help with dealing with Manfroy.

But that situation isn't too common. I only remember seeing Dark Mages use the spell otherwise at a few points in Ch10 and with one of the Dark Warlords. Those were around other enemies with regular attacks, so I think Manfroy's team is the only place where enemies with Hell are separated from the others, and even then Manfroy himself is backing them up with Jormung and Fenrir.

[Caliban of Sycorax]

Woah ok, lots of things to look at here

So I'll move Ambush above Charge, since that seems the agreed idea.

Other things I'm seeming to look at are Wrath up, Prayer down, Continue down, and Astra up?

Help me if I'm missing anything.

[bottlegnomes]

^Awareness possibly down, IIRC.

Edited May 13, 2012 by bottlegnomes

[Tables]

Steal down possible as well.

[Caliban of Sycorax]

I'm kind of rating this on effectiveness, availability, and usefulness in the long run, as well as how often they tend to activate.

My Name is Pursuit and I'm Hilariously Broken Tier

Pursuit

Dance

High Tier

Elite

Prayer

Charisma

Continue

Critical

Mid Tier

Bargain

Wrath

Astra

Steal

Low Tier

Luna

Ambush

Charge

Awareness

Sol

Big Shield

LOL Tier

Life

I decided to revive this just for funsies, and to see if people's opinions may have differed.

Changes I made that are significant:

1) Dance moved to Pursuit tier. Despite only one unit having it per generation, it's hilariously broken in FE4, and a Leg/Knight Ring!Sylvia/Leen/Laylea (which is almost always assumed in most play unless Leg Ring!Sigurd/Celice) can keep up with Mounties easier. Plus, there's the foot units who benefit as well.

2) Elite moved to top of High because it's just that good.

3) Steal dropped to bottom of Mid tier because it's not as useful as first imagined. Bargain is more useful and using Steal means we have to use Thieves in regular combat.

4) Astra moved to Mid right above Steal because it's, as described before, "Continue on Steroids".

5) Awareness insanely dropped because it's not that useful.

6) Sol dropped considering not many units have it, and it's not that useful in Gen 1. Gen 2, maybe.

I'm willing to discuss a few things, specifically the placement of the three C's in High, the placement of Bargain/Wrath (they have different uses but are both useful in different ways), and the placement of Sol.

[Anouleth]

Why is Charge so low? It has a good activation rate and the characters who have it greatly appreciate the offense boost. It's also a skill that's carried by a lot of characters, in between Noish, Midayle, Jamka, and Beowolf. It should be at least above Luna which has bad distribution and a much lower activation rate, and gives a smaller offensive boost, for the cost of a "downside" that is not really a downside at all for Midayle or Jamka, and not being helpful in the arena.

[Caliban of Sycorax]

Why is Charge so low? It has a good activation rate and the characters who have it greatly appreciate the offense boost. It's also a skill that's carried by a lot of characters, in between Noish, Midayle, Jamka, and Beowolf. It should be at least above Luna which has bad distribution and a much lower activation rate, and gives a smaller offensive boost, for the cost of a "downside" that is not really a downside at all for Midayle or Jamka, and not being helpful in the arena.

If I do that, I'd be most likely moving Ambush with it because of previous arguments. Unless you can justify Charge > Ambush. Personally I'm fine with Ambush>Charge>Luna.

[bottlegnomes]

I'd say wrath > critical. While you need to be low on health, it's guaranteed while critical is dependent on the RNG being nice. Wrath > continue for the same reason, though continue > crit is good because of the higher activation rate for the majority, if not all of the game. I'd say crit and continue down because wrath < bargain. Wrath's not super common, but neither is critical, except for later in the game, so that doesn't seem like enough to make up for it. I could see continue maybe staying higher because a lot of units have it and they generally appreciate the extra offense when it procs.

I'd agree with Ano. Ambush is somewhat useful, but only really useful if the unit can reliably kill the enemy before being attacked, which is fairly scarce, unless the enemies are already weakened which isn't guaranteed. All I can think of are Aless with like 100 kills on Mystoltin, people using a hero weapon, which aren't particularly common, and wrath/ambush users which is just Lex!Arthur and Tinny, and neither of them have very good offensive stats in that case, so they'd have to use high level tomes like Tron. Charge, on the other hand is mostly used by units who aren't too worried about the extra attacks, Jamka's fairly durable and Midir isn't too bad after some levels, and both can avoid even taking counter attacks fairly often, thanks to bows. Both also greatly appreciate the extra offense, which is especially nice when combined with the killer or hero bows. The same holds true for their kids.

[Caliban of Sycorax]

You do raise a valid point on Wrath > Continue/Critical but having it jump a whole tier seems excessive, and Continue and Critical are too good to go down a tier. I also don't see Bargain right beneath Charisma, personally. The problem with Wrath is that it opens you to more enemies because a LOT of them get OHKOed after the critical (See: Tron!Tiltyu). Your Wrathbots, Tiltyu and her kids, are squishy and can't take more than a few hits at best, and if they're not dodging, they're going down.

I'm more inclined to put Bargain in High but not Wrath just yet.

Also, Charge on Jamka/Midir is amazing, but Charge on the others may lead to trouble if facing tougher enemies. The big debate previously was between Charge and Ambush so I don't know if I want to change them just yet.

I will move Luna down, though, because it isn't better than those two.

[Kiriane]

Life is useful on fliers and Celice. Or maybe that's just me because I do drafts. But seriously, that ring is amazing.

[Caliban of Sycorax]

Life is useful on fliers and Celice. Or maybe that's just me because I do drafts. But seriously, that ring is amazing.

Rings aren't taken into account. Yet. Hence why Life is the bottom because no one has it as a skill.

I was thinking about a possibility for the end of High/Beginning of Mid Tiers.

High Tier is kind of large right now, with five skills, whereas Mid Tier has Four. High Tier can possibly be more exclusive than Mid Tier, with skills that have incredible benefits. (i.e. Elite, Prayer, Charisma). Continue and Critical don't have those, and neither does Wrath. Bargain, maybe. I don't know if jumping Bargain that high is the best notion, especially since it's stuck on a poor unit in Gen 1 and the only way to pass it is to pair Dew. Especially since Fin and Lex are more likely to be fathers (Lex is the best physical father and Fin has Pursuit and Prayer for his kids). Nonetheless, I have a few possible solutions that may be taken into account.

Solution One:

-Move Bargain below Continue, switch Critical and Wrath, move Continue and its crew to Mid.

High

Elite

Prayer

Charisma

Mid

Continue

Bargain

Wrath

Critical

Astra

Steal

Solution Two:

-Move Bargain above Continue and keep the aformentioned changes. Bargain can be in either the bottom of High or the top of Mid.

2A:

High

Elite

Prayer

Charisma

Bargain

Mid

Continue

Wrath

Critical

Astra

Steal

[Anouleth]

Because Charge's activation rate drops with your HP, the chances of actually dying because of it are pretty low. More to the point, Noish and Beowolf probably want to be fighting as much as possible. I see it as rather perverse, that it's supposed that Noish and Beowolf engaging in extra rounds of combat isn't useful or a positive. They're not great, but at the same time, neither of them are bad.

Noish and Beowolf are unlikely to face "tougher enemies" anyway. The toughest enemies they're ever going to fight are Arena enemies.

Ambush just seems like a useless skill in Gen 1. Arden and Lex are among the most durable units in Gen 1, Lex in particular because of his insane level gain. It seems like they would be the least of our worries, especially since Arden isn't really useful at all. And in Gen 2, it's only useful very situationally: on Arthur, Lex!Arthur no less, who isn't that great anyway. And apparently you can use it for Arenahax on Patty and Leen, if you wanted to level them for whatever reason.

[Momentai~]

Ah, this is a nice list. I just have a two minor statements to make...

I think sol and luna should move above charge. Charge can be a bad thing on EP, especially if the unit with it cannot counter the charge attack. Even if the user can counter the attack, if the counter doesn't kill the foe they'll get in their next attack before you. I don't really like odds like that, especially in a game with a single rn system that really seems to favor enemies hitting lol. And while charge likely will not get anyone killed due to its activation criteria, it still gives the foe another chance to do damage. Even though sol and luna might not be the best of skills, they have no negative side to them.

edit: Actually I'm not entirely sure about this part. My memory of FE4 is a bit blurry, but I have a fresh memory of charge being horrible during EP in FE5, especially with ballistae and siege tomes. Could charge activate in battles triggered by long range weapons/magic and other battles in which the user could not counter in FE4?

I also feel as though steal and bargain should have their own tier (money tier?) since they're not directly related to battle. I mean, I know steal can only activate during battle, but it doesn't have any impact on the battle itself.

Edited January 8, 2013 by Momentai~

[Caliban of Sycorax]

Because Charge's activation rate drops with your HP, the chances of actually dying because of it are pretty low. More to the point, Noish and Beowolf probably want to be fighting as much as possible. I see it as rather perverse, that it's supposed that Noish and Beowolf engaging in extra rounds of combat isn't useful or a positive. They're not great, but at the same time, neither of them are bad.

Noish and Beowolf are unlikely to face "tougher enemies" anyway. The toughest enemies they're ever going to fight are Arena enemies.

Ambush just seems like a useless skill in Gen 1. Arden and Lex are among the most durable units in Gen 1, Lex in particular because of his insane level gain. It seems like they would be the least of our worries, especially since Arden isn't really useful at all. And in Gen 2, it's only useful very situationally: on Arthur, Lex!Arthur no less, who isn't that great anyway. And apparently you can use it for Arenahax on Patty and Leen, if you wanted to level them for whatever reason.

Part of me thinks the reason Ambush > Charge at the moment is because of Ambush/Wrath combo, which is good but is only if you do LexTiltyu (Semi-Likely) or ArdanTiltyu (lolno). Someone also mentioned the hilariously broken Ambush/Wrath/Prayer combo (using the prayer ring of course) once... Ambush is a great stacker skill but not necessarily good on its own unless it's on Lex, but he's never in danger anyway.

Charge on its own is pretty decent. And yeah, it's neither good nor bad. But it shouldn't be penalized for that.

Ah, this is a nice list. I just have a two minor statements to make...

I think sol and luna should move above charge. Charge can be a bad thing on EP, especially if the unit with it cannot counter the charge attack. Even if the user can counter the attack, if the counter doesn't kill the foe they'll get in their next attack before you. I don't really like odds like that, especially in a game with a single rn system that really seems to favor enemies hitting lol. And while charge likely will not get anyone killed due to its activation criteria, it still gives the foe another chance to do damage. Even though sol and luna might not be the best of skills, they have no negative side to them.

edit: Actually I'm not entirely sure about this part. My memory of FE4 is a bit blurry, but I have a fresh memory of charge being horrible during EP in FE5, especially with ballistae and siege tomes. Could charge activate in battles triggered by long range weapons/magic and other battles in which the user could not counter in FE4?

I also feel as though steal and bargain should have their own tier (money tier?) since they're not directly related to battle. I mean, I know steal can only activate during battle, but it doesn't have any impact on the battle itself.

As said by Anouleth, Charge's activation rate drops as HP drops. Very few enemies have Charge anyway.

Luna > Charge is something I'd rather not do only because Luna and Sol are both bad. Yeah they have good effects, but they're on mediocre units who can't really keep up. Dew only heals minimal HP and Holyn doesn't really have the power to do significant damage with Luna until lategame when enemies have better defenses anyway. Even on Ayra, Astra will usually do more damage than a trained Luna!Holyn.

Not to mention unless you do Holyn!Swordtwins (which is certainly possible but I'd do Lex or Noish over Holyn) Luna's on no one good in Gen 2. Patty sucks, and Leen probably never sees combat. Same thing with Dew and Sol Sword. Mind you, it's getting passed down because of Bargain.

In fact, it's possible to do Sol > Luna because Sol goes from pretty useless to possibly decent, whereas Luna goes from mediocre to possibly nonexistent.

As for Bargain/Steal in their own tier, Steal is related to battle since only Thieves have it. Thieves have shit combat, and Steal only nabs around 2-3000 gold each time. It adds up if there's decent combat to be had, but that means using Dew/Patty/Daisy semi-frequently. They're better off just going village hunting and using that gold for Give.

I think Bargain at the lowest point in High is where it should stay, no higher, and no individual tier. Especially since it gets inherited.

Anyway, here's what's on the table.

Charge > Ambush (Incredibly likely)

Wrath and Bargain > Critical

Rearranging High and Mid Tiers

Sol > Luna (?)

PLEASE LEND YOUR OPINIONS TO THESE TOPICS! IF YOU HAVE SOMETHING NEW TO PROPOSE THAT'S FINE BUT DISCUSSION SHOULD BE FOCUSED ON THESE TOPICS.

Edited January 8, 2013 by Hamlet

[Refa]

If you ever decided to count rings, then Bargain would be tops because its infinite money for anyone who can reliably clear the arena, lets you fix those super expensive holy weapons without breaking the bank, and lets you buy Pursuit and Elite and whatever other rings your heart desires and trade them back at no cost

[MacLovin]

If you ever decided to count rings, then Bargain would be tops because its infinite money for anyone who can reliably clear the arena, lets you fix those super expensive holy weapons without breaking the bank, and lets you buy Pursuit and Elite and whatever other rings your heart desires and trade them back at no cost

Bargain Ring makes Levin!Artur so much better.

But it makes everyone better, so w/e.

I could see charisma dropping a little bit due to the units that have it being a little frail unless Lachesis is paired with like-Lex or Noish+pursuit ring.

[Momentai~]

Charge on its own is pretty decent. And yeah, it's neither good nor bad. But it shouldn't be penalized for that.

As said by Anouleth, Charge's activation rate drops as HP drops. Very few enemies have Charge anyway.

Wait no, I wasn't talking about enemies having charge, I was asking if the charge of your playable character can activate on enemy phase (i.e. an enemy initiates a battle with Jamka on EP, can it activate HIS charge?). I've tested it with Noish a little bit and it doesn't seem to activate on EP, but it certainly wasn't an extensive test so I can't say for sure. If your playable character's charge does not activate on EP then please forget my argument about it moving below Luna/Sol lol.

Luna > Charge is something I'd rather not do only because Luna and Sol are both bad. Yeah they have good effects, but they're on mediocre units who can't really keep up. Dew only heals minimal HP and Holyn doesn't really have the power to do significant damage with Luna until lategame when enemies have better defenses anyway. Even on Ayra, Astra will usually do more damage than a trained Luna!Holyn.

Not to mention unless you do Holyn!Swordtwins (which is certainly possible but I'd do Lex or Noish over Holyn) Luna's on no one good in Gen 2. Patty sucks, and Leen probably never sees combat. Same thing with Dew and Sol Sword. Mind you, it's getting passed down because of Bargain.

In fact, it's possible to do Sol > Luna because Sol goes from pretty useless to possibly decent, whereas Luna goes from mediocre to possibly nonexistent.

As for Bargain/Steal in their own tier, Steal is related to battle since only Thieves have it. Thieves have shit combat, and Steal only nabs around 2-3000 gold each time. It adds up if there's decent combat to be had, but that means using Dew/Patty/Daisy semi-frequently. They're better off just going village hunting and using that gold for Give.

Oh, oops. I thought skills were being rated independent of the character they were on. Now that I rethink, it definitely doesn't make sense to rank them like that especially since most skills in this game cannot be passed around. I see your point.

I think Bargain at the lowest point in High is where it should stay, no higher, and no individual tier. Especially since it gets inherited.

Agreed.

Anyway, here's what's on the table.

Charge > Ambush (Incredibly likely)

Wrath and Bargain > Critical

Rearranging High and Mid Tiers

Sol > Luna (?)

No objections to any of those either.

PLEASE LEND YOUR OPINIONS TO THESE TOPICS! IF YOU HAVE SOMETHING NEW TO PROPOSE THAT'S FINE BUT DISCUSSION SHOULD BE FOCUSED ON THESE TOPICS.

[MacLovin]

IIRC, it does activate on EP; and for the majority of units-it's a decent skill for every decent pairing produced by the CHARGE!Dads.

Ambush is a nice skill to have on a large set, but not really as just one.

[Caliban of Sycorax]

I've decided to make a few changes to the list:

Charge above Ambush

Sol above Nihil

Reformatting the High/Mid Tiers

[BBM]

Astra and Luna should be beside each other because they both serve the same purpose, are owned by the same group of people (sword footies), and work approximately equally. Astra is maybe a bit better than Luna but not by enough to warrant a tier difference. The fact that it's still locked to sword footies prevents it, IMO.

[Caliban of Sycorax]

Astra and Luna should be beside each other because they both serve the same purpose, are owned by the same group of people (sword footies), and work approximately equally. Astra is maybe a bit better than Luna but not by enough to warrant a tier difference. The fact that it's still locked to sword footies prevents it, IMO.

I feel like Astra's damage output > Luna's damage output. As said before, even in Ayra's hands Astra does more damage than Holyn. Astra's great in both generations but Luna's mediocre in the first and either very good or not even worth it in the second.