How difficult is Awakening?

[Gold Vanguard]

I would hope you would have some more options. I'm at Ch9 in my Lunatic run, and both Krom and MU are promoted and about as competent as Frederick, aside from his Silver Lance and flight. Seems to me that as the game goes on, you can train more and more characters to catch up and help out, unless you choose not to and go the boring tiny-team route.

And just as I noted on Gamefaqs, I really am inclined to think that the tiny team played just as much of a role as the Nosferatu use in trivializing the game, even if it wouldn't have been enough on its own. So there probably is more to learn here: Sorcerers have without a doubt the best combat in the game, but they may not be as broken on less-boring full teams on Lunatic.

On the other hand, on HM, they're absurd no matter what.

On Lunatic, Sigurd's SpotPass team contains this guy:

Great Knight

LV20

HP 80

Str 51

Mag 4

Skl 35

Spd 33

Luck 32

Def 45

Res 9

Move 7

Sword A, Lance A, Axe A

Silver Axe (+8 Mt, +20 Hit)

Vantage, Luna

His battle stats are:

Atk: 75

Hit: 163

Crit: 17

Avo: 65

The others aren't any less scary. Two of the Paladins have forged Brave weapons.

With Res like that a Sage should kill him.....right?

[Othin]

With Res like that a Sage should kill him.....right?

Sure. But that Sage might have trouble surviving against him and the other 9 enemies, and the rest don't have nearly as poor Res.

[Gold Vanguard]

Sure. But that Sage might have trouble surviving against him and the other 9 enemies, and the rest don't have nearly as poor Res.

How tough are the other enemies units!?!? 0_o

[Othin]

How tough are the other enemies units!?!? 0_o

Well, they're a bit more balanced with Atk in the 60s. But then, with a Brave weapon which two of them have, that's still scary. They're all mounted, so depending on where they show up, it might be hard to avoid taking on multiple at once.

[cheetah7071]

...?

You're clearly not talking about Lunatic, where every early chapter is a living hell and Nosferatu can't come soon enough.

Except I am talking about lunatic. Frederick remains invincible enough (as in isn't literally invincible but can do what you need him to do) up until like the chapter where you fight Gangrel. A def-strong-stat MU remains invincible enough up to the boat chapter.

Nosferatanking just isn't necessary until lategame -- it might help, but you have enough experience to wait five freaking levels to have rainbow cry and nosferatu. It isn't even buyable until chapter 13--in other words, delaying becoming a sorcerer until after the children chapters show up is identical to waiting to become a sorcerer until nosferatu is buyable!

[Gold Vanguard]

Thats nothing if you have a General with a Horse Slayer!!.....Are horse slaying weapons in this game?

[Othin]

Thats nothing if you have a General with a Horse Slayer!!.....Are horse slaying weapons in this game?

Horses are now included in the slightly larger Beast category, also including Pegasi, Griffins, and Taguels. All are vulnerable to Rapiers and to Beast Killers, which are basically the equivalent of Horseslayers. They're not too common, though.

[Westbrick]

@Othin: You might be right about the small team size playing a role in trivializing Lunatic, but as you probably know, the high enemy stats almost necessitate using just a handful of units who can actually hold their own. That, and throwing Nosferatanks into enemy combat = more experience, more quickly.

Except I am talking about lunatic. Frederick remains invincible enough (as in isn't literally invincible but can do what you need him to do) up until like the chapter where you fight Gangrel. A def-strong-stat MU remains invincible enough up to the boat chapter.

Nosferatanking just isn't necessary until lategame -- it might help, but you have enough experience to wait five freaking levels to have rainbow cry and nosferatu. It isn't even buyable until chapter 13--in other words, delaying becoming a sorcerer until after the children chapters show up is identical to waiting to become a sorcerer until nosferatu is buyable!

The easiest way to breeze through Lunatic is to field a very small team (I got by with MU and Krom alone) with liberal Nosferatu use, and Rainbow Cry would be absolutely useless in such a setup. And there are a handful of Nosferatu tomes available before Ch.13 is completed, making becoming a Shaman earlier helpful for those early tricky chapters.

Oh, and Frederick is anything close to "invincible enough" on Lunatic; he's getting two- or three-rounded by basic grunts during the first few chapters.

[Onestep]

Y'know, this talk of Nosferatu tanking makes it sound like Inverse will be stupendously useful, particularly for passing on Dark Blessing. A Dark Knight Mark with Dark Blessing sounds like a solo-er to me.

[Velth]

Y'know, this talk of Nosferatu tanking makes it sound like Inverse will be stupendously useful, particularly for passing on Dark Blessing. A Dark Knight Mark with Dark Blessing sounds like a solo-er to me.

Except Inverse can only join after chapter 25 provided you have a strong enough team to beat her chapter, so it would only be useful for postgame.

[Onestep]

Except Inverse can only join after chapter 25 provided you have a strong enough team to beat her chapter, so it would only be useful for postgame.

Ugh. I forgot about her late join time. In the time it would take to get her and MU together, and then getting Mark to the stats you want her to have, you could do so much more.

Out of interest, how effective is Sol? And does it work with Magic?

[cheetah7071]

@Othin: You might be right about the small team size playing a role in trivializing Lunatic, but as you probably know, the high enemy stats almost necessitate using just a handful of units who can actually hold their own. That, and throwing Nosferatanks into enemy combat = more experience, more quickly.

The easiest way to breeze through Lunatic is to field a very small team (I got by with MU and Krom alone) with liberal Nosferatu use, and Rainbow Cry would be absolutely useless in such a setup. And there are a handful of Nosferatu tomes available before Ch.13 is completed, making becoming a Shaman earlier helpful for those early tricky chapters.

Oh, and Frederick is anything close to "invincible enough" on Lunatic; he's getting two- or three-rounded by basic grunts during the first few chapters.

Checking chapter 6 (which I have a file at at the moment) an average level 9 Frederick (which is what mine is at), Frederick is 4HKOed by axe users if he has a lance equipped, but is only 6HKOed at iffy hit rates with a sword equipped. Extrapolation from last chapter's myrmidons, he'd be 6HKOed when using a sword and 13HKOed with a lance. If he doubles with Callum and uses a sword, he's functionally invincible to everything but magic, since lance-using enemies are pretty rare in the early game. This starts around chapter 3, I've found. That sounds "invincible enough" to me.

A def-focused MU at level 18 (the level my MU is at in chapter 6; I haven't found a master proof yet) averages all of 2 less def and 5 less hp than Frederick, but with much better res.

Nosferatu simply isn't necessary in the early or midgame.

[Othin]

Out of interest, how effective is Sol? And does it work with Magic?

It's nice for some chance of healing, but only a ~30% chance of activating looking at the time you might have to use it indicates it as not so reliable as to have a huge impact.

I haven't tried Sol with magic, but Astra and Lethality both work with it as well as with bows, so I assume everything does, Sol included.

[Westbrick]

Checking chapter 6 (which I have a file at at the moment) an average level 9 Frederick (which is what mine is at), Frederick is 4HKOed by axe users if he has a lance equipped, but is only 6HKOed at iffy hit rates with a sword equipped. Extrapolation from last chapter's myrmidons, he'd be 6HKOed when using a sword and 13HKOed with a lance. If he doubles with Callum and uses a sword, he's functionally invincible to everything but magic, since lance-using enemies are pretty rare in the early game. This starts around chapter 3, I've found. That sounds "invincible enough" to me.

A def-focused MU at level 18 (the level my MU is at in chapter 6; I haven't found a master proof yet) averages all of 2 less def and 5 less hp than Frederick, but with much better res.

Nosferatu simply isn't necessary in the early or midgame.

How in the wide world is your Frederick at level 9 already? Did you grind, or not bother leveling up the rest of your team? I'm not sure my Frederick got up to level 9 the entire game (since I stopped using him once I class-changed MU).

I don't think anyone would argue Nosferatu is absolutely necessary for the earlygame (although it's pretty much essential for mid- and late-game), but it sure is helpful. Just like dancers aren't absolutely necessary, but are still an invaluable asset. Seems silly to postpone those contributions for... a skill that isn't particularly useful on optimal play.

[Othin]

At the start of Ch9, I have Krom as a ~16/1 Great Lord, MU as a ~16/1 Grandmaster, and Frederick as a 10/1 Dragonmaster, with little training for other units. Don't remember the exact levels before promotion, but I'm not sure how they could reach these levels any earlier.

[cheetah7071]

How in the wide world is your Frederick at level 9 already? Did you grind, or not bother leveling up the rest of your team? I'm not sure my Frederick got up to level 9 the entire game (since I stopped using him once I class-changed MU).

I don't think anyone would argue Nosferatu is absolutely necessary for the earlygame (although it's pretty much essential for mid- and late-game), but it sure is helpful. Just like dancers aren't absolutely necessary, but are still an invaluable asset. Seems silly to postpone those contributions for... a skill that isn't particularly useful on optimal play.

for the first few chapters I doubled Krom with Frederick so Frederick would be able to double, so essentially all exp went to Frederick and MU. When Sumia joined I had a second choice for someone who allows Frederick to double, and was able to start actually raising krom. He's now level 12 in chapter 6, so I'm not sure I've really missed out on anything in the long run.

[Westbrick]

for the first few chapters I doubled Krom with Frederick so Frederick would be able to double, so essentially all exp went to Frederick and MU. When Sumia joined I had a second choice for someone who allows Frederick to double, and was able to start actually raising krom. He's now level 12 in chapter 6, so I'm not sure I've really missed out on anything in the long run.

So you managed to get Krom more or less 11 levels in four chapters on Lunatic? Sorry, but those level numbers aren't particularly credible. Are you sure you didn't grind in optional skirmishes?

[cheetah7071]

So you managed to get Krom more or less 11 levels in four chapters on Lunatic? Sorry, but those level numbers aren't particularly credible. Are you sure you didn't grind in optional skirmishes?

8 Levels, actually, I got him to level 3 before Sumia joined. I didn't do any grinding (the skirmishes are murderously difficult). I did do both of the gaidens up to this point, and Krom ate about half of the kills in each, as well as a number of kills in chapters 3, 4, and 5.

Note that no unit other than Krom, Frederick, MU, or Liz has gained a single level, besides Donny's single level to recruit him.

[Othin]

I didn't do any sidequests yet, and I know Westbrick didn't either, so that explains it.

Didn't think it was possible to restrict character choices that much that early, though.

Edited June 9, 2012 by Othin

[cheetah7071]

I didn't do any sidequests yet, and I know Westbrick didn't either, so that explains it.

Didn't think it was possible to restrict character choices that much that early, though.

I find the easiest path is to do C4 because it's really easy, then G1 to pick up a rescue staff, then C5 (where you can now rescue Mariabel). Doing G2 before C6 is also a big help because it lets you leave Liz in emelina's room and just Physic away.

[Othin]

The Rescue staff isn't necessary; I came up with a strategy to reliably get them both to safety on Turn 2. It does sound convenient, though; same with Physic.

Regardless, I'm trying to go without sidequests for the main story for this run, just to see how it goes.

[arvilino]

You'd probably want the G1 Rescue staff for Libera, it makes chapter 9 alot more managable without having to use Tiamo to take Frederick all the way to Libera to save him and then get Krom all the way down to recruit him. You'll need to field Miriel or Richt and give Liz a magic potion to increase her staff range. But If Libera's in range of Krom he'll move to recruit himself.

Edited June 9, 2012 by arvilino

[cheetah7071]

You'd probably want the G1 Rescue staff for Libera, it makes chapter 9 alot more managable without having to use Tiamo to take Frederick all the way to Libera to save him and then get Krom all the way down to recruit him.

You have five uses and it becoems buyable relatively early. It's not exactly in short supply.

EDIT: And I realize you were talking to Othin.

Edited June 9, 2012 by cheetah7071

[arvilino]

You have five uses and it becoems buyable relatively early. It's not exactly in short supply.

EDIT: And I realize you were talking to Othin.

I meant it more in that he'd probably want to have it for that chapter as opposed to saving it's uses for that chapter. Since it's only available from the first gaiden treasure chest or Random Merchants before chapter 12.

[Othin]

I came up with a good way of handling that part of the map, so I'm not really worried. Frederick now having wings helps.