Rate the Unit: Day 40 - Soren

[PKL]

If a magic user is actually trained in this game considering the amount of balls they suck, its Calill because she is able to wield Rexflame, the only way to have actual offence as mage. Soren's superior availability is practically pointless when he contributes jackshit to GMs, whom I remind you is full of long movement range badasses, while Calill is CRK who just happen to have 2!!!! Paragons just floating around, have less ideal Cavalry for long time use, is only contested for them by like Marcia, and can casually potshot with meteor or ledge advantage. Desert is, by far the best map in this game to be magic user. Calill can be there, Soren can not. Calill can meteor potshot in 2-E, Soren can potshot in that one GM defend map. That just about cancels out each other. That is assuming we use Soren's sorry ass enough to make that potshot of any value.

Calill has respectable amount of looks, Soren is a bitch. There is absolutely no reason to use Soren outside personal bias. Even non efficency player can see that Soren is undurable, lacks potential because caps and to top it all off competes with the freaking GMs instead of like, Kieran?

Because endgame offense MATTERS A LOT. Sages are crap for endgame when you can just roflstomp everything with royals. It doesnt matter if she can wield rexflame (which is lolworthy because in HM she will have way too little mag in endgame to be of any use and soren is probably beating her in rough damage output with just a single attack from rexcalibur) or rexcalibur, sages are a terrible choice for endgame anyway. Yeah, it is pointless, if you consider massive chipping and ocasional ORKO'ing with adept, pointless. He can be BEXP'd once he caps mag skl and res (which will be really soon) so he caps spd too and could take a crown (even if contested) to start doubling stuff. Caill has jackshit movement in her chapters too, aside from being able to get up ledges. But due to her durability, do you really want her to do that? :/ Marcia could use all those resources a lot better because she FLIES and has more uses than "LOLMETEOR in one chapter and then hope she gets enough stats to do well in the desert". Hint: she wont get enough spd or mag in HM to ever do well in the desert. And the desert is already haar/jill's/peggies job anyway. Why drag a useless underleveled mage when you already have micaiah for that? Soren will probably do more in his forced GM chapters than calill. And wrong, calill doesnt compete with just kieran. She competes with marcia for a lone crown and very little BEXP. So she should never ever get those resources. Soren on the other hand, is on a team that has a lot of resources and gods that dont need many resources to function.

[MacLovin]

Because endgame offense MATTERS A LOT. Sages are crap for endgame when you can just roflstomp everything with royals. It doesnt matter if she can wield rexflame (which is lolworthy because in HM she will have way too little mag in endgame to be of any use and soren is probably beating her in rough damage output with just a single attack from rexcalibur) or rexcalibur, sages are a terrible choice for endgame anyway. Yeah, it is pointless, if you consider massive chipping and ocasional ORKO'ing with adept, pointless. He can be BEXP'd once he caps mag skl and res (which will be really soon) so he caps spd too and could take a crown (even if contested) to start doubling stuff. Caill has jackshit movement in her chapters too, aside from being able to get up ledges. But due to her durability, do you really want her to do that? :/ Marcia could use all those resources a lot better because she FLIES and has more uses than "LOLMETEOR in one chapter and then hope she gets enough stats to do well in the desert". Hint: she wont get enough spd or mag in HM to ever do well in the desert. And the desert is already haar/jill's/peggies job anyway. Why drag a useless underleveled mage when you already have micaiah for that? Soren will probably do more in his forced GM chapters than calill. And wrong, calill doesnt compete with just kieran. She competes with marcia for a lone crown and very little BEXP. So she should never ever get those resources. Soren on the other hand, is on a team that has a lot of resources and gods that dont need many resources to function.

Soren would be taking the crown away from others who perform far better than him.

Like

Every GM frontliner, Shinon?, Neph, and Haar.

I expected a lot more from you Green. You have disappointed me again. Try using Calill in HM, shes horrible. She needs an early crown for 3-9 and even then, shes not guaranteed to meteor the boss well due to the swordmasters in the way. She also comes with extremely bad stats in 3-11 if early crowned as well as a whopping ^6 MOVE and most of the GM maps dont need a 6 move unit tagging along because most of the remaining maps are heavily FLIGHT-biased. Marcia is by far, the best choice to put your CRK resources in IMO as her flight can help a lot more than calill. Soren has much better availability and thus much more time to get to a decent level. And can meteor stuff in a lot more chapters. He can also help clear 4-4 faster by opening the doors with siege tomes.

Oh yeah.

I thought 3rd tier footsies got 7 move.

Also, Sorens early p3 is not stellar, and he does have durability problems even more so in HM.

In NM, he can be your main. Also, the one meteor tome transfered from 2-E(Calill would like this for doing an Adept+Meteor Clear for 3-9) isn't going to last very long.

Yeah, also note that I was running on Theorycraft for HM Soren, since I didn't use him in HM.

Hell, next fe10 draft, I'll take him and see what he's fully capable of!

How about we all agree that on fe10 HM, magic users not named Micaiah are just pieces of crap

Edited June 11, 2012 by Folgore Green

[PKL]

Soren would be taking the crown away from others who perform far better than him.

Like

Every GM frontliner, Shinon?, Neph, and Haar.

Oh yeah.

I thought 3rd tier footsies got 7 move.

Also, Sorens early p3 is not stellar, and he does have durability problems even more so in HM.

In NM, he can be your main. Also, the one meteor tome transfered from 2-E(Calill would like this for doing an Adept+Meteor Clear for 3-9) isn't going to last very long.

Yeah, also note that I was running on Theorycraft for HM Soren, since I didn't use him in HM.

Hell, next fe10 draft, I'll take him and see what he's fully capable of!

How about we all agree that on fe10 HM, magic users not named Micaiah are just pieces of crap

Of course, I agree mages are crap in this game's HM. I would give Soren a 4/10 and Calill would get like a 2/10 in this RTU. Those are pretty bad scores but I just dont see how everyone thinks Calill>soren. On the subject of drafts: NM Soren can get the same TCs in some chapters as Oscar as Ive desmonstrated multiple times Green but thats NM >_>. NM is kinder to soren.

[bottlegnomes]

Well, Paragon for more exp in 3-9, or Adept to Adept-Meteor the boss.

Also, Nailah makes several of fe10s most tedious chapters much easier.

Legitimately, what chapters does she make much easier? I can think of one, 1-E. One's not several. The only other ones she's available in are 1-8 where she's good but not doing anything special, 4-1, again, good but nothing special, 4-4, same, and 4-E same.

I expected a lot more from you Green. You have disappointed me again. Try using Calill in HM, shes horrible. She needs an early crown for 3-9 and even then, shes not guaranteed to meteor the boss well due to the swordmasters in the way. She also comes with extremely bad stats in 3-11 if early crowned as well as a whopping ^6 MOVE and most of the GM maps dont need a 6 move unit tagging along because most of the remaining maps are heavily FLIGHT-biased. Marcia is by far, the best choice to put your CRK resources in IMO as her flight can help a lot more than calill. Soren has much better availability and thus much more time to get to a decent level. And can meteor stuff in a lot more chapters. He can also help clear 4-4 faster by opening the doors with siege tomes.

If a magic user is actually trained in this game considering the amount of balls they suck, its Calill because she is able to wield Rexflame, the only way to have actual offence as mage. Soren's superior availability is practically pointless when he contributes jackshit to GMs, whom I remind you is full of long movement range badasses, while Calill is CRK who just happen to have 2!!!! Paragons just floating around, have less ideal Cavalry for long time use, is only contested for them by like Marcia, and can casually potshot with meteor or ledge advantage. Desert is, by far the best map in this game to be magic user. Calill can be there, Soren can not. Calill can meteor potshot in 2-E, Soren can potshot in that one GM defend map. That just about cancels out each other. That is assuming we use Soren's sorry ass enough to make that potshot of any value.

Calill has respectable amount of looks, Soren is a bitch. There is absolutely no reason to use Soren outside personal bias. Even non efficency player can see that Soren is undurable, lacks potential because caps and to top it all off competes with the freaking GMs instead of like, Kieran?

The only thing I'd disagree with here is that Marcia is the best candidate. IMO it's Mak. Gold knight with 50% def and 75% speed is quite nice. Sure his strength is a bit lacking, but it's better than Marcia's and I'd rather have another mounted hammer/wyrmslayer user for endgame (who also happens to be rather tanky and quite fast) than another flier especially when two more who are arguably superior join the next chapter. But meh, that's all personal preference.

Also, Soren potshotting in 3-5 is hardly an issue even with no levels. The absolute highest res on an enemy in that chapter is 18. Soren has a minimum of 29 attack, base + bolting. That's 11 damage, which is nothing great, but nothing to sneeze at.

[Starwave]

Soren would be taking the crown away from others who perform far better than him.

Like

Every GM frontliner, Shinon?, Neph, and Haar.

Oh yeah.

I thought 3rd tier footsies got 7 move.

Also, Sorens early p3 is not stellar, and he does have durability problems even more so in HM.

In NM, he can be your main. Also, the one meteor tome transfered from 2-E(Calill would like this for doing an Adept+Meteor Clear for 3-9) isn't going to last very long.

Yeah, also note that I was running on Theorycraft for HM Soren, since I didn't use him in HM.

Hell, next fe10 draft, I'll take him and see what he's fully capable of!

How about we all agree that on fe10 HM, magic users not named Micaiah are just pieces of crap

Well that explains it.

All's well that ends well I suppose. Soren will (likely) end up with a score far lower than Calill's, but when you've got legs like hers it's to be expected. Maybe in the future we can practice a little more levity so we can avoid these type of situations?

Edited June 11, 2012 by Starwave

[MacLovin]

Of course, I agree mages are crap in this game's HM. I would give Soren a 4/10 and Calill would get like a 2/10 in this RTU. Those are pretty bad scores but I just dont see how everyone thinks Calill>soren. On the subject of drafts: NM Soren can get the same TCs in some chapters as Oscar as Ive desmonstrated multiple times Green but thats NM >_>. NM is kinder to soren.

NM is kinder to every unit, I think.

RHYS CAN BECOME YOUR MAIN FRONTLINE DB IN NM!

According to PKL on chat that one time.

NM makes MArcia a possibly worth 2nd round pick for drafts.

[PKL]

@ Green- I never said rhys can become a frontline GM, you are probably thinking of someone else. Rhys is bad for every map thats not a desert and even then, he might still be bad >_>. Rhys is super overrated in drafts IMO.

Edited June 11, 2012 by Professor PicKLe

[MacLovin]

@ Green- I never said rhys can become a frontline GM, you are probably thinking of someone else. Rhys is bad for every map thats not a desert and even then, he might still be bad >_>. Rhys is super overrated in drafts IMO.

Good Point.

Hmn, lets not reveal any more fe10 draft secrets to these kids.

Also, what bonuses does Rexcalibur give again?

[Shadow Mir]

Also, what bonuses does Rexcalibur give again?

3 Luck... which is pretty bleh. I'd say only Balberith's bonus is worse in the sense of being practically useless.

Edited June 11, 2012 by Golden Cucco

[PKL]

3 Lck lol.

EDIT: Ninja'd

Edited June 11, 2012 by Professor PicKLe

[MacLovin]

Hey, its not like Soren and the mages are top tier characters.

But really?

WTF IS.

[nano]

The above doesn't really fly for me at all. Bias is irrelevant, but even by his own admission he considers Soren to be better than Calill in his previous vote.

I thought about the Calill vote when I did this actually. Note that I mentioned their difference being small.

Also nothing in the topic mentions that you must put up scores according to efficiency standards. Maybe I prefer to rout 2-E and get Calill more levels, maybe I prefer to give my crowns to Haar/Titania/Mia/Shinon/Neph first. That could affect the scores too. In a strictly LTC sense Soren does nothing for the GMs, you would get the exact same turncounts if he doesn't exist in part 3. Then part 4 comes around and Calill is in the desert and Soren isn't.

Edited June 11, 2012 by nano

[a.f.k.a. Howard Hughes]

@PKL

1) by contesting with only Kieran I meant over the Paragon scroll. Marcia has dibs on 1 but not both silly

2) I said assuming we train a mage, not because mage is good endgame class did I?

3) Marcia and Devnavdan easily clear the ledges so calill can hurt enemy reinforcements from above.

4) If Soren can help more in GM maps than Calill in SIlver ones, couldn't we have Calill do the GM maps instead of Soren

5) Just because desert is flierland, it doesn't change the fact of it being the best mage map. (hint, every map with flier is flierland)

6) I know CRK resourses have big Marcia looking competition, just like GM resources have huge anything not Rofl or Beast Laguz competition.

7) I fail to see how Calill's lol 6 move is point in Soren's favour

[Shadow Mir]

Sorry for jumping on your case. Anyway it's my fault for being optimistic about the RTU threads.

It's all right. And my rating for Soren's not THAT outlandish compared to Ayanami's (A 7.8 on a chatacter like him in Hard mode?! Really???).

Well that explains it.

All's well that ends well I suppose. Soren will (likely) end up with a score far lower than Calill's, but when you've got legs like hers it's to be expected. Maybe in the future we can practice a little more levity so we can avoid these type of situations?

IMHO, I'd say something similar happened with Nephenee - the first page alone has mostly 8s (most of which where boosted to 9s by bias) and a 9 or two somewhere in there... on a character I'd personally have some trouble justifying giving higher than a 7 or a 7.5.

Edited June 11, 2012 by Golden Cucco

[Jimmy_Smith]

Pro

- Only SS wind magic user (if this count?)

- Good available

- Good base (well....for a mage)

- Good growth (yea.....for a mage)

- Can cap nearly everything if abuse BEXP.

Con

- Die for just stepping on LEGO

- Low cap

- Being a mage

- Mage is suck in this game

- Ever he can cap on everything, mage is still suck.

- Did I already say mage is suck?

6.0 - 0.5 bias for being a Marty Tzu

Overall

5.5

[Dark Sage]

lol 6 move with shitty luck and speed along with terribad hp and defense. I think he's even at risk of getting doubled by enemies.

3.5/10

[Ema Skye]

Calill's on a team that needs all of the firepower it can get, because Geoffery, Kieran and Marcia cannot do everything. Her getting resources is much more likely than Soren, because his resource competition is so thick. Soren has at least five units (Ike, Titania, Haar, Neph and Mia) that compete with him for resources (other than two of the Spirit Drops from P3, and if Soren needs those then something is wrrrrrrong).

Because endgame offense MATTERS A LOT. Sages are crap for endgame when you can just roflstomp everything with royals. It doesnt matter if she can wield rexflame (which is lolworthy because in HM she will have way too little mag in endgame to be of any use and soren is probably beating her in rough damage output with just a single attack from rexcalibur) or rexcalibur, sages are a terrible choice for endgame anyway. Yeah, it is pointless, if you consider massive chipping and ocasional ORKO'ing with adept, pointless.

You're right, endgame doesn't matter much with royals around. But 20/10 Rexflame!Calill and 20/10 Rexcalibur!Soren only have a difference of four attack. However, Calill hits 34 Speed with Rexflame while Soren's stuck at 28! Soren only doubles Bishops, and gets doubled by Swordmasters. Calill doubles everything except Swordmasters and doesn't get doubled by anything. With the doubling, Calill will have better offense than Soren in both 4E-1 and 4E-2. Come 4E-3, and Calill can double Dragons with Bolting or Dragonfoe!Meteor (with no AS loss). Soren needs 30 AS to double the dragons. He's not facing any AS loss from the seige tomes, but he still has 28 speed, which only doubles the untransformed Dragons and their lol13 AS. Come 4E-4 and all of the magical enemies, Calill and Soren are both pretty much done and can't do much of anything to any enemies.

Outside of 4E though, Calill can go crazy with Resolve in the desert, while Soren is busting doors with Seige tomes and restore staffing. Soren's not exactly helping achieve the objective, while Calill is helping eliminate enemies in a route map. Advantage: Calill

He can be BEXP'd once he caps mag skl and res (which will be really soon) so he caps spd too and could take a crown (even if contested) to start doubling stuff. Caill has jackshit movement in her chapters too, aside from being able to get up ledges. But due to her durability, do you really want her to do that? :/ Marcia could use all those resources a lot better because she FLIES and has more uses than "LOLMETEOR in one chapter and then hope she gets enough stats to do well in the desert". Hint: she wont get enough spd or mag in HM to ever do well in the desert. And the desert is already haar/jill's/peggies job anyway. Why drag a useless underleveled mage when you already have micaiah for that? Soren will probably do more in his forced GM chapters than calill. And wrong, calill doesnt compete with just kieran. She competes with marcia for a lone crown and very little BEXP. So she should never ever get those resources. Soren on the other hand, is on a team that has a lot of resources and gods that dont need many resources to function.

Already talked about this. At least Calill can go Resolve mode in the desert, but Soren can't. There's two resolves hanging around, so one could go to Miccy and one could go to Calill. She's still helping complete the chapter faster than any non-flier or mage though. Soren's got lots of units to fight for a crown for, but Calill's only got three, which increases her odds of getting one.

Calill>Soren

Soren's score: 3.5, after bias (4 without).

Edited June 11, 2012 by Lucina

[Shotguner159]

Marcia could use all those resources a lot better because she FLIES and has more uses than "LOLMETEOR in one chapter and then hope she gets enough stats to do well in the desert".

What if we don't use Marcia?

[PKL]

Calill's on a team that needs all of the firepower it can get, because Geoffery, Kieran and Marcia cannot do everything. Her getting resources is much more likely than Soren, because his resource competition is so thick. Soren has at least five units (Ike, Titania, Haar, Neph and Mia) that compete with him for resources (other than two of the Spirit Drops from P3, and if Soren needs those then something is wrrrrrrong).

Except Calill is not needed at all in those chapters. Marcia, Geoffrey and Kieran is all you really need to beat 3-9. She'll maybe meteor something and then what?

You're right, endgame doesn't matter much with royals around. But 20/10 Rexflame!Calill and 20/10 Rexcalibur!Soren only have a difference of four attack. However, Calill hits 34 Speed with Rexflame while Soren's stuck at 28! Soren only doubles Bishops, and gets doubled by Swordmasters. Calill doubles everything except Swordmasters and doesn't get doubled by anything. With the doubling, Calill will have better offense than Soren in both 4E-1 and 4E-2. Come 4E-3, and Calill can double Dragons with Bolting or Dragonfoe!Meteor (with no AS loss). Soren needs 30 AS to double the dragons. He's not facing any AS loss from the seige tomes, but he still has 28 speed, which only doubles the untransformed Dragons and their lol13 AS. Come 4E-4 and all of the magical enemies, Calill and Soren are both pretty much done and can't do much of anything to any enemies.

You're exagerating Calill's level by A LOT. I wouldbe surprised if calill is more than 10/5 in endgame. Soren will have a huge level lead on her if hes being used and not sandbagged like you are doing. So, your point is irrelevant.

Outside of 4E though, Calill can go crazy with Resolve in the desert, while Soren is busting doors with Seige tomes and restore staffing. Soren's not exactly helping achieve the objective, while Calill is helping eliminate enemies in a route map. Advantage: Calill

"Can go crazy in the desert with resolve". Pssh, no way. Calill will only be OHKO'ing something in the HM desert with flare. Her mag sucks and she is very likely to be underleveled.

Already talked about this. At least Calill can go Resolve mode in the desert, but Soren can't. There's two resolves hanging around, so one could go to Miccy and one could go to Calill. She's still helping complete the chapter faster than any non-flier or mage though. Soren's got lots of units to fight for a crown for, but Calill's only got three, which increases her odds of getting one.

Soren can meteor the 3-5 boss to achieve the same TC as Oscar/Titania/Haar. He can do a lot more stuff in Part 3 if hes being used like being rescue dropped with a thunder forge + wrath and adept to ORKO the 3-2 boss in 2 turns. Its too bad for calill and soren that haar/titania/oscar exist though. This is specially bad for Calill, because you dont really need anything in the desert other than fliers. Id rather do the desert with jill, haar and the seraph knights than drag an underleveled sage that will never ORKO anything and has a chance of dying even with resolve. Anyway, Id rather give the meteor tome to the GMs because Soren can use it for a lot more chapters and can even save turns with it. In order for Calill to do anything with her meteor tome, she has to be reaaaaaaaaaaaaally overleveled, which is very unlikely, considering her availability.

Calill>Soren

Lol nope.

Soren's score: 3.5, after bias (4 without).

Answers in quote. RTUs suck.

Edited June 11, 2012 by Professor PicKLe

[Titamon]

Soren won't realistically reach level 20 in 2nd tier (23 speed is really bad) , he should be crowned as soon as he caps Mag/Skl/Res and you BEXP his speed up

And I am skeptical about Calill's levels as well, because she has much less time to level

[Shadow Mir]

Am I the only one here who considers Ayanami's rating questionable???

Edited June 11, 2012 by Golden Cucco

[bottlegnomes]

So why exactly is it automatically assumed Calill is getting a crown, or any of the CRKs for that matter, when they're joining up with the GMs in literally two chapters? Personally, I'd say it's better to save it and slap it on someone who's not quite promoted yet in the GMs and save a couple hundred bexp than to spend it on a largely pointless mage. And besides, how many levels is Calill getting in 2-E that promoting her would even be worthwhile? She starts at level 6, so that's a minimum of 4 to even be able to use it. Then she either becomes a 10/1 archsage, which destroys any advantages she might have over Soren stat-wise, or you bexp her up to 20, a massive waste of bexp on a unit you're not taking to endgame, in addition to it hurting her overall stats because she's capped nothing.

Also, Calill is hardly needed in any of her chapters. She's going to struggle to see marginal combat in 2-E unless you're going out of your way to use her. In 3-9 she can go up the ledges, but so can Danved and Marcia and the do it faster and/or have better survival. Sure if you bexp dumped her, she could take out the boss, though she'd have to be 19/3 to do so in one round reliably. Marcia can do the same at 19/1 with the brave lance and no transfer, with a STR transfer she might be able to pull it off before promotion. So if Soren is contributing nothing of worth in his chapters, neither is Calill.

As for when she joins up with the GMs she'll match Soren's bases at:

HP base (beats him +4)

Str base (ties him)

Mag 15/0 (9 levels from base)

Skl 11/0 (5 levels from base)

Spd base (ties him)

Luck base (beats him +5)

Def base (beats him +2)

Res 14/0 (8 levels from base)

So unless Calill's somehow gaining like 5 levels and Soren's gaining absolutely none, she's not beating him when she joins up.

[Shotguner159]

So why exactly is it automatically assumed Calill is getting a crown, or any of the CRKs for that matter, when they're joining up with the GMs in literally two chapters?

You need to master crown Marcia to efficiently do 3-9/ have the LTC/ CRKs count as separate from the GMs? I have no idea.

[Melonhead]

Soren is ohmazing in EM and NM, possibly being the best, and gets Rexcalibur to himself before bastian comes along.

Not the case for HM, where his Speed really hurts him, and can actually be doubled by faster units. His Defence and Strength are good for a mage, and can heal very well as an archsage. Decent unit, and he has his uses.

6/10 with .5 bias for 6.5/10

[Exiledwolf]

The, main problem I have with Soren is that his durability is crap due to his low defence and hp. The same can be said about Mist and Rhys, but they are primarily healers. Hits magic is top notch and can provide decent chip. However he is also prone to random crits, especially if you give him an early crown. His speed can also suffer unless bexp abuse.

Uh 4.5/10 -1 bias because his bitchy personality irks me= 3.5/10