Elieson Posted July 9, 2012 Author Share Posted July 9, 2012 Marth, you dick. Screwing with my fun. Yep, Marth/Proto were the spy team. Too bad for Slayer, he's the only one that seriously seriously believed in that duo. He also figured out that Proto troll'd for the heck of it. More postgame later, unless Marth does that for me, too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zanarkin Posted July 9, 2012 Share Posted July 9, 2012 Too bad for Slayer, he's the only one that seriously seriously believed in that duo. Nobody ever listens to me though... story of my life ;_; Also, if only i could have forced the 4.5 proposal, i definately could have given us a chance to pass. But with strong leader it all fell apart. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kriemhild Posted July 9, 2012 Share Posted July 9, 2012 Thank you fr your lovely time everyone. The spies were Proto and I. And thank you Tables, for underestimating my gameplay when I took strong leader from you. I considered you to be the 3rd spy :3 Sorry Eli, I so wanted to do that. XD Marth, you dick. Screwing with my fun. This, pretty much. I mean, come on, I went through the risk of cooperating on the final mission just to see if anybody would actually name me as a possible Spy but noooo, Blues, you just HAD to ruin it before Shinori could say anything. How hard would it be to just propose I eat tables + Shinori/scorri like what I was about to do? Buuuuuuuuuut I can't remain angry at you because, well... oh, right, I never got the opportunity to tell you so I'll say it now, THANK YOU SO MUCH for voting in exactly the way I needed you to vote for EVERY SINGLE proposal, particularly your No vote on 4.2, which pretty much fooled I eat tables completely and won us the game. Oh, and uh, if you ever felt uneasy with my mindgames with I eat tables, I apologize for that. I just couldn't resist, now that I finally got the chance to play against him. Yep, Marth/Proto were the spy team. Too bad for Slayer, he's the only one that seriously seriously believed in that duo. He also figured out that Proto troll'd for the heck of it. Well, y'know, he actually has the most experience playing with me so he saw right through me. But I figured it'd be more productive to focus on I eat tables, because his modding experience makes more people listen to him than Slayer. idk if anyone else noticed, but pretty much all of my lategame posts were subtly directed solely at I eat tables because I figured that scorri and Shinori would naturally fall into place if I could just manage that. Slayer was a constant annoyance, but hey, it turned into our advantage since it made him look obvscum to I eat tables. Still, though, you did good, Slayer, congrats! More postgame later, unless Marth does that for me, too. What the heck is Resistance postgame supposed to be? Aside from telling us stuff like which of Kay or Slayer sabotaged 3.5 in Resistance II, which obviously doesn't apply here? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tables Posted July 9, 2012 Share Posted July 9, 2012 Oh man. Well, the spies had me fooled pretty badly. Or mainly, Slayer acting so scummy had me fooled pretty badly. Once I was almost certain of him, everything was obviously going to fall apart. The spies did play well, though. Proto got me off his trail, and I underestimated Bluedoom based on his play in Resistance IV. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bluedoom Posted July 9, 2012 Share Posted July 9, 2012 What I don't understand is how the hell did I manage to look resistance not just for Tables, but for Shinori and Scorri too?(well Shinori suspected me in the first but then meh) Also I was still third on Slayer's order from scum to town, so I'm surprised I looked more resistance without trying much. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scorri Posted July 9, 2012 Share Posted July 9, 2012 Marth: It wasn't that you looked Resistance, it was that you didn't look as Spy as Slayer managed to... Also, I voted yes to the last prop cause I no longer cared enough about the game to try and argue to you guys about how I was Resistance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zanarkin Posted July 9, 2012 Share Posted July 9, 2012 (edited) I'm so confused as to how i manage to look scum when i'm town and town when scum. :/ It happens in so many games... Edited July 9, 2012 by SlayerX Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bluedoom Posted July 9, 2012 Share Posted July 9, 2012 I'm so confused as to how i manage to look scum when i'm town and town when scum. :/ It happens in so many games... me too XD Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zanarkin Posted July 9, 2012 Share Posted July 9, 2012 (edited) Aside from telling us stuff like which of Kay or Slayer sabotaged 3.5 in Resistance II, which obviously doesn't apply here? That was a fun game. Edited July 9, 2012 by SlayerX Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elieson Posted July 9, 2012 Author Share Posted July 9, 2012 What the heck is Resistance postgame supposed to be? Aside from telling us stuff like which of Kay or Slayer sabotaged 3.5 in Resistance II, which obviously doesn't apply here? IT was supposed to tell you who the scumteam was after a brief analysis of everyone's play, ala Res3. Obviously, I can't really do that anymore, due to BlabberMarth. I'll come up with something. I got a break at work, and I'm on a PC working on a response to SSBU first. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
riariadne Posted July 9, 2012 Share Posted July 9, 2012 How many Resistance teams does it take to win a game apparently, more than 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tables Posted July 10, 2012 Share Posted July 10, 2012 I've yet to see a forum Resistance win a game, yet the win rate IRL is probably at least 40%. Bah. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zanarkin Posted July 10, 2012 Share Posted July 10, 2012 I've yet to see a forum Resistance win a game, yet the win rate IRL is probably at least 40%. That might be due to body language and such. Forums lack such a thing so its harder to know when somebody is faking something or other... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paperblade Posted July 10, 2012 Share Posted July 10, 2012 (edited) I've yet to see a forum Resistance win a game, yet the win rate IRL is probably at least 40%. Bah. It seems inherently less balanced than mafia because there is no real reason to buddy up with your team. As long as you get on missions, shit's good. When things are going badly in mafia you have a lot of info to base that on whereas in Resistance it seems like you just have two people pointing fingers at each other. Edited July 10, 2012 by Paperblade Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tables Posted July 11, 2012 Share Posted July 11, 2012 Less balanced is probably not the wording you were looking for there. It certainly needs a different approach to mafia, teamtells are less likely to work, as I demonstrated this game, but voting patterns and the like... either the spies compromise their own position by voting suspiciously to get spies onto missions, or they compromise their position by not actively getting spies onto missions, or a mix of both. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paperblade Posted July 11, 2012 Share Posted July 11, 2012 (edited) You don't need to vote to get your buddies onto missions though. Look at this game and Resistance 3. The only time the spies voted each other onto missions there was when they were both on that mission (which was just the very last one). And even if you do, so what? Anyone on that mission could be the buddy, and it's not even confirmed that the person making that vote is a Spy--they could just be Resistance trying to vote through a mission they think will succeed. There is zero suspicious voting here unless the game is close and thus the spies are desperate to push missions through. The problem is that things are never be that close. I'll admit that SF pushes missions forward too easily, but considering that every (?) game has been a 3-1 loss with the 1 being from a 2 man mission... In real life, sure, I imagine non-verbal reactions and difficult faking a natural response can help to balance things out (on the internet it's easier because you can take your time to write up a post), but in the forum games it just seems like people listing possible spy teams and going "well fmpov it has to be this or that so I'm going to vote like this" and how are you supposed to tell differently? It's basically the same reason no cardflip in mafia is dumb... Edit: Also as a reminder, I DID do indepth vote analysis in Resistance 2. I spent like an entire day on it and came up with half false positives. Edited July 11, 2012 by Paperblade Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tables Posted July 11, 2012 Share Posted July 11, 2012 That's part of the problem. People on SF have been too willing to push missions through, and that leads to the lack of information you described. The standard Resistance reaction should be No. If it isn't, then you're letting the spies get away with easy yes votes. I think reactions are probably easier to read in real life. Certainly, you get more reaction out of people, and they generally respond worse to pressure and flip information. On the other hand, it's much easier for the spies to communicate. It's easy enough to catch your partner's eye and give them a signal. It's also hilarious as a spy to loudly state 'Wait a sec, X did you just wink at Y?' And proceed to pressure this person and pretty much conclude they're a spy from it. Basically make whatever suspect you want out of nobody, at any time. Resistance I will agree is, unlike Mafia, a game that works better in real life. But I think the forum version definitely still works. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paperblade Posted July 11, 2012 Share Posted July 11, 2012 (edited) But on the same note, SF isn't exactly great at being Spies either. Obviously, you shouldn't balance a game assuming people play poorly, but the fact that there is apparently a 100% win rate at low level play is kind of absurd and makes me wonder if the skill caps for the sides are too different. Even in Resistance 2 where we tried to play properly, we still got completely wrecked (although you said the setup wasn't favorable so eh). It's basically a complete blowout that's not even close, since the only missions that don't get sabotaged are two mans (since that would confirm a spy to a resistance member). And there is still the issue that realistically the spies do not have to follow any pattern because unlike a Mafia game they just have to keep themselves alive, and the information gained from failed missions isn't as good. I guess my argument is as thus: In Resistance, it is much easier for a Spy to emulate Resistance play because the things they want to do are not so different (both want themselves to be on missions because it significantly increases the chances of them winning) and busing your teammates is a more viable strategy. Edited July 11, 2012 by Paperblade Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BBM Posted July 11, 2012 Share Posted July 11, 2012 But if the expected vote for Resistance is no for more information, you not only devalue the quality of that information by not allowing others to analyze your voting trends, you allow spies to vote no even on the most obvresistance team just so that they can "get more information", when in reality they just don't want a team with no spies to go through. Rein admitted that he did this once or twice in Resistance 4, IIRC. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paperblade Posted July 11, 2012 Share Posted July 11, 2012 the real information gained from proposals is who you are putting on teams Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eclipse Posted July 11, 2012 Share Posted July 11, 2012 Maybe expand the forum version to 7 missions, win 4? Part of the problem, IMO, is that three data points isn't enough for me to determine much of anything. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tables Posted July 11, 2012 Share Posted July 11, 2012 Maybe. I've been sticking to the rules of the real game so far, maybe 7 missions might sort the problem... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
riariadne Posted July 11, 2012 Share Posted July 11, 2012 Rein admitted that he did this once or twice in Resistance 4, IIRC. This was my excuse for the majority of times I voted no Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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