Draft Minimafia

[Elieson]

As for my change from Proto to Blitz, it was three reasons mainly. The first was that last post he made where he dropped off a vote without any reasoning and then announced he wouldn't be back before phase end. That was dumb, and a scummy thing for him to do even if he flipped town.

Secondly, while I initially thought that Proto's reaction to his impending lynch was scummy, Prims's point made sense.

And finally, I thought that lynching Blitz, who had been more active, would result in more information to the town than lynching Proto, a player who had been mainly inactive, would. Almost all the votes for Proto were for the same reason (the nolynch vote) meaning that more than just scum were thinking that and analyzing those particular voting trends upon Proto's flip would therefore yield little.

So you thought Blitz declaring his absense and handing in a vote (instead of possibly not voting at all, and declaring his absense, or just being inactive altogether) would've been a better idea for him?

---

Prims voted for Proto specifically because of his No Lynch vote, and provided pretty darn sound reasoning IMO.

http://serenesforest.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=33440&view=findpost&p=2031757

http://serenesforest.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=33440&view=findpost&p=2032059

http://serenesforest.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=33440&view=findpost&p=2033699

http://serenesforest.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=33440&view=findpost&p=2033796

http://serenesforest.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=33440&view=findpost&p=2033798

Which one of these posts made sense for Proto not to appear scummy to you? (Well, less than Blitz)

He pointed out how not useful his thought of a NoLynch was, and asked several times for him to change it. This, after voting for him. Prims' points were against a No Lynch vote, therefore, they were against Proto. You find Proto less scummy how?

---

All of the votes on Proto were because of him not wanting a lynch, which in many people's minds, must have meant "Oh, Scum doesn't want to get lynched!" Proto has a pacifist way of approaching everything, so he can at least argue that concept.

And had he flipped scum, then what? What did we learn from Blitz on your miraculously timed last minute vote switch? I think we learned more from you than from Blitz. (Well, aside from the Hooker part)

[Percivalé]

##Vote: BBM

I'm feeling a bit more comfortable about this now, even though it seems like Elieson just kind of read what I said and then went with it without much more convincing than that. /: As for Manix, it sounds a little bit like he buddied with BBM back there regarding his post of "YOU ARE THE ONLY ONE WHO HASN'T REVEALED ANYTHING, DON'T REVEAL !!"

I think it's been easier for scum to pick off PRs after the D1 vanilla claims though

[Prims]

haven't had time to write a post yet but don't lynch bbm

[Prims]

At the very least don't lynch him without a claim because I'm pretty certain he's town.

I also don't think the Blitz vote yesterday is necessarily scummy, I went out of my way to persuade him to join the Blitz wagon and it was only after I did that he switched to Blitz. If he were opportunistic scum he would have taken the chance to lynch Blitz without me provoking him

[Prims]

Oh wait, I didn't notice Rothene's unvote. I thought he was at L-1

[Paperblade]

Manix (2): Prims, Rothene

Elieson (2): BBM, Levity, Proto

BBM (2): Rothene, Manix, Levity

Prims (1): Levity, Elieson

I believe this is right

[Percivalé]

Prims, why are you pretty certain that BBM is town? /:

[Prims]

RE: :roles:

i don't actually -think- we have a dayvig, i just want to make sure that if we do and they're town, they out and shoot today to clear up any doubts, and if they're scum, they get lynched because we seriously can not suffer a scum dayvig to live

Other stuff worth noting: if there's a doctor and it's a weaker player (could apply to one of the claimed if they're keeping their cards close to the chest), then they're probably town unless their buddy is experienced, since i don't think it's very likely they'd think of picking scumdoc on their own

PLUS last night's kill looks a lot like it was an attempt to avoid hitting the doc's target, which implies scum doesn't have control over what the doc does.

So yeah if somebody turns out to be doc they're probably town and I'm surprised nobody else has considered this yet.

RE: :lynches:

from what I can tell Manix isn't actually scumhunting, he's just trying to get BBM lynched because... ...BBM hasn't claimed? I don't know. I don't see Manix saying why BBM is scum, just that he wants BBM to die. This is a weird way to get scum lynched as town and an easy way to get an unknown to roleclaim in-thread as scum, something scum would definitely want to do at this point with all the claims being thrown around. What makes BBM scummier than the other people who aren't cleared from your PoV?

In any case it makes me a lot less comfortable about the BBM lynch since that's a weak way to bus.

Elie painting me asking Manix "am I scum?" as bad is lol. He was attacking me and I wanted to know what his opinion was so I could get a better grasp of what he was doing and read him.

[Prims]

the BBM wagon just looks rly bad because the person at the base is scummy as hell and pushing it for absolutely no reason (it looks to me like a scum-motivated attempt to out yet another claim), and I actively disagree with the only notable point I've seen people cite for BBM being scum. I actually think the way BBM handled jumping on the Blitz wagon was a towntell, because like I said, an opportunistic scum!BBM could have jumped on without needing my prodding and probably have gotten away with it.

[Prims]

It's also worth noting that I think his content has improved significantly since D1 and have found myself nodding along with his points here and there. Why is BBM scum?

[Grace]

unless you two are buddies. I'm not dropping that possibility yet.

[Grace]

more actual stuff when I don't feel as shit

[BBM]

I haven't got him as cleared. Heck, I don't actually find him that notable, and FMPOV, he's the only unknown. It's a bit disconcerting, really.

That Blitz vote from the Proto vote... if BBM is scum, I'd almost say that Proto is his scumbuddy. And right now, BBM is not looking great.

##Vote: BBM

I actually want to see what BBM flips, tbqh.

I'm the only unknown on purpose. In fact, your last post advised me to remain unknown. Why are you suddenly finding it disconcerting that I haven't revealed anything about my role? If it makes you feel any better, Goodbye Elieson. I am not the dayvig, which is why I think we don't have one at all.

As for the Prims post that made me reconsider my opinion that Proto was scum,

http://serenesforest.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=33440&view=findpost&p=2033946

http://serenesforest.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=33440&view=findpost&p=2033961

http://serenesforest.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=33440&view=findpost&p=2033982

[Grace]

admitting I'm not making sense at all this game

I'm playing like shit right now anyway

But from what I'm seeing from you, BBM, is that being the unknown can be a good thing, but seeing as how I find you unmemorable, that's not making me feel good about you being town. And being an unknown when you don't look great FMPOV... it's a cause for concern. :/

[Prims]

OC would be useful right now and if there's a networker they totally should've targeted me N1

unless you two are buddies. I'm not dropping that possibility yet.

shrug, I'm just speaking from my own PoV. You still haven't even provided a reason for BBM to be maf individually.

[Percivalé]

what the fuck manix what are you doing

you just said you were all for BBM to keep his role a secret and you

##Unvote

okay so I want to think Manix is town because I just couldn't see him as scum solely for acting like a defeatist towards his lynch/not providing a lot of D1 content, but he's slowly starting to look kind of terrible.

[Percivalé]

I think at least one of the vanilla claims is scum

[BBM]

I think at least one of the vanilla claims is scum

Well, it's possible that they're vanilla goons, but considering any role can be any alignment, even town ninja and scum doctor, I think it's stupid to lie. Unless you're simply saying that you find one of them scummy, not that you think one of them is fakeclaiming in addition.

[BBM]

Elieson

Manix

Proto

Prims

Rothene

Bizz

My scumlist, from scummiest to towniest. I'd prefer an Elieson lynch, but although I was originally thinking that Manix was townish, he's not making any sense at all, anymore. He's totally contradicting himself and is all over the place. I'm not sure if he's scum or town who's just playing badly atm.

[BBM]

Also, Elieson, you made a large post detailing the things both Manix and Prims had done that were scummy and townie. And this exactly proved my point. One of Manix's two posts that you say are townie is speaking directly to Prims as he calls Prims out for bad logic. Similarly, one of Prims's two posts that you say are townie is calling out Manix for not having said much of substance. You can't just take both people's sides and condemn them at the same time. It only works if Prims and Manix are scumbuddies who are very dedicated to bussing each other. And I honestly don't think our scumteam involves both of them.

[Elieson]

I can't look at someone's logic and find inconsistencies or variations in it? I seem to be pretty good at getting that said about myself.

But shoot, a scumteam bussing eachother? Inconceivable. It's like they might be planning for midgame already, just in case something goes wrong. Naw, couldn't be. Who would go through that much work anyway.

Let me add more fuel to the fire. Bizz and Prims complained about my voting. For a period of time, I changed my vote. I was swayed by players whom I acknowledge are better at scumhunting than I am. I'm now thinking I was wrong for letting myself get convinced like that. It's embarrassing to say that I think I let myself and my thoughts be that strongly influenced by kind words and passive-aggression, but it happened. I'm not looking forward to being lynched, but apparently you feel like it's to be done, as I'm apparently the conductor on this scum train that I've built.

Know what else I think? Any alignment can have any role. I said it before. So roles aren't scumtells. This game is (unless we have investigative roles), 100% based on communication, which obviously some players excel at. Now I'm not saying we should namelynch, but look. I think we are being played by a very retroactive Prims, a very objective Proto (coming from Resistance games), or very confusing Manix (who is making more sense now, after admitting he didn't care, although this is the only active game right now).

BBM's logic can go both ways. Sure he could've thought he was acting on a more active target for informational purposes, but it's a clever blanket to hide under if he and Proto were a scumteam

Speaking of scumteams. Since when should they buddy up all of a sudden? That's kind of a big giveaway, and that's why I am considering Prims x Manix, for all their work to look like enemies, when in fact, it's conceivable that they are allies covering eachother's arses in case plans take a turn for the worse.

But I'm not being decisive in my cruddy thoughts, and this is obviously echoing still. Because if it has already been said, its a scumtell for thinking the same way.

I'm just throwing this out there. Prims for scum. Probably Proto, or a bit less likely, Manix, for scumbuddy.

When does this phase end again? I wanna make sure I'm on for it.

[Grace]

##Unvote

[BBM]

My problem is that you are using the logic of someone you find scummy to proclaim someone else as scum. Honestly, why do you think Prims and Manix are scumbuddies? Sure, they could be, but how much indication have their posts given that they are scumbuddies, and how much have they given that they both genuinely think the other is scum?

Blah, I don't know. I think there's a limit to how committed a person can be to bussing. And I feel like I'm tunnelling way too much. >_> Also, phase ends in I think approximately 48 hours?

Rothene, what opinions do you have? Don't be afraid to express them, and don't be afraid if they're different from what everyone else is saying. Listen to what other people have to say, but don't let it influence you too much.

[Grace]

I have very little motivation to play mafia right now (not because of this game, don't worry about that)

but I'll try to get something out that makes reasonable sense before I go to sleep tonight. (ie; in about 6 hours)

[Percivalé]

I highly doubt Prims and Manix are scumbuddies /: