Super Smash Bros Universe Mafia

[Subieko]

What you forget is watcher can be a scum role too.

It can, but as far as I know it's really uncommon. I don't remember any scum Watchers in any of the SF games I read, actually. And as I said in a post during N2, Prims and SB did not make sense as scumbuddies. SB was the main wagon earlier on, and Prims joined it without much of a fight once I pointed out that SB had had all of two posts that day, neither of which was useful. Why completely fail to defend SB and vote him then, only to suddenly leap into action later after his claim? Scum!Prims should have tried to get another wagon going earlier, when there was more time and it would have easier.

[Bluedoom]

It can, but as far as I know it's really uncommon. I don't remember any scum Watchers in any of the SF games I read, actually. And as I said in a post during N2, Prims and SB did not make sense as scumbuddies. SB was the main wagon earlier on, and Prims joined it without much of a fight once I pointed out that SB had had all of two posts that day, neither of which was useful. Why completely fail to defend SB and vote him then, only to suddenly leap into action later after his claim? Scum!Prims should have tried to get another wagon going earlier, when there was more time and it would have easier.

He could've just acted like it was a lost cause since SB wasn't doing anything, but then that claim could've been something he could argue from. Since you're kind enough to assess what behavior scum prims would've had, why don't you use that on me? What makes me look real scummy? If its the role that I've claimed, then forget it, because that's not related to my behavior.

And finally I still want you to answer: If you were in my position, and everyone but Prims in your area claimed, what would you do?

[Strawman]

But that would have been a great opportunity to confirm one of Psych's or SB's roles wouldn't it? Rolecop is a very easy way to check if someone is lying. (I left out Eclipse because it would be obvious if she didn't ever have OC with someone shes on a stage with)

[Bluedoom]

But that would have been a great opportunity to confirm one of Psych's or SB's roles wouldn't it? Rolecop is a very easy way to check if someone is lying. (I left out Eclipse because it would be obvious if she didn't ever have OC with someone shes on a stage with)

Except rolecopping Psych would be a bad idea because I honestly don't think he'd have claimed vanilla, that's not a great claim for a mafia. And I didn't know what to make out of Psych evolving, I mean how many nights would it take? Just to get a vanilla role pm would be stupid.

And finally yeah I considered SB. It was a toss up between SB and Prims, decided since SB claimed and he didn't know what his role was in the first place, that he wasn't lying.

[Deliriyum]

I'll be a sub, assuming I'm not needed until Sunday.

[Kriemhild]

Blues investigating Prims isn't scummy

Blues dropping hints about his role while delaying his full claim for so long is slightly scummy

Blues being a backup role cop when the game has a role cop, tracker, and watcher is scummy, though the tracker seems scummier to me for this aspect

Piplup's role PM being quite different from mine and Psych's claims is scummy ("It's a Water-type, so it's strong versus Rock and Ground types", I doubt Kaoz wrote that; and no mention of what Prinplup is like even though Psych's one talks about what Venusaur is like)

Piplup being backup rolecop is the scummiest of them all. Let's start with the name "Piplup". Why didn't Piplup evolve into Prinplup for a role upgrade? After all, Piplup is a Pokemon. Next, you have the word "backup". Kind Dedede is Piplup's idol? Where the heck did this come from? Is it just because people find it funny that Dedede is a penguin? They're not even from the same universe. Then comes the word "rolecop". Okay, he picks up a book called Detective 101? Since when was King Dedede a detective? And you use that book to find out their role? Worst lie ever. Look at Dedede's role PM. He doesn't use a book, he doesn't chat with his target, he doesn't use any detective skills to get the role PM. What he does is send his Waddle Dee army to overwhelm the target and take the role PM. And that's how he gets the role, but the Waddle Dees end up damaging the other parts of the role PM. No "How's it going?", no detective books, nothing like that. The only skill he relied on is his command over the Waddle Dee army, which is not something you'd find in a book called "Detective 101", and even then, there was no mention of Waddle Dees in Blues' falseclaim.

I can say with certainty that Blues is most definitely lying, and is therefore, scum.

[Subieko]

He could've just acted like it was a lost cause since SB wasn't doing anything, but then that claim could've been something he could argue from. Since you're kind enough to assess what behavior scum prims would've had, why don't you use that on me? What makes me look real scummy? If its the role that I've claimed, then forget it, because that's not related to my behavior.

And finally I still want you to answer: If you were in my position, and everyone but Prims in your area claimed, what would you do?

That theory sounds kind of far-fetched, though...the more simple explanation for the facts is that Prims is Town. Creating more and more complex theories to explain why he's scum doesn't make much sense.

All right, here's my thoughts on your posts, it's a bit long though.

You were pretty scummy on D1 but I dismissed it because you tend to be scummy on D1 as Town. After that, you didn't do much active scumhunting on D2. You voted Elieson, then gave up on that, voted Iris, gave up on that...basically not much conviction in your votes.

You didn't discuss Proto aside from pushing for his claim, and then once you got it, saying he was probably Town. In fact, looking over your D2 posts, you didn't do much at all. You did say later that you trusted Proto and Psych, and then:

I didn't say anything earlier because I didn't want to say that Proto has an upgrading possibility, but anyway, I'm gonna say that I'm the third guy of the trio which starts as vanillager and can get a role upgrade.

There was no real reason for you to claim this at that point. You were not under suspicion and Psych's claim was enough to back Proto up since Psych was seen as pretty Town at the time. Your claim comes off as opportunistic.

However, Prims, you said you'd fullclaim if Shinori flipped town on being lynched, but seeing as that hasn't happened, are you willing to claim in D3 still? Considering that you even said your role is irrelevant.

Pushing for Prims' claim, although the circumstances under which Prims had said it would be necessary had not happened. Town does not want people to start claiming for no reason, but scum does. And then when you couldn't get Prims to claim you went ahead and rolecopped him. Guess you really, really wanted to know what his role was.

I agree with Subieko, I think Iris is scum. I mean pages ago she was all "Oh no I think I screwed up Shinori's chances of proving his role!" and then a few pages later she points out his role PM flaws and votes for him. Actually, she had been doing that since N1 so...

You had one minor vote for Iris earlier where you pressed her to give her opinions...and then you didn't mention her again until this post on the next day phase. And you even admit here that the suspicious behavior had been occuring since N1; why didn't you mention it before this post? You didn't even bring it up when you previously voted Iris.

I still think iris is scum. No actually scummy., simply because roles-swapper screws up role-cop, watcher and tracker stuff. It messes with claims. However her idea of revealing stuff honestly makes me second guess because, what's the point of a role-swapper if you tell people what you did? Can't you just idle and be done with that?

Then later you said this. Your suspicions of Iris have weakened quite a bit here; this post first says she suspicious but then says you're not sure. Then in your next post you switched over to a BBM vote. So your Iris suspicions were short-lived and pretty weak.

Ok, a hint: You guys went all gung-ho and killed Kay, who was King Dedede, Town Rolecop. Now it should be easy to guess my role.

If it should be easy to guess your role, that suggests that you intended people to figure it out. So why not just claim it and avoid all the confusion that followed over what it was? If you want to claim, claim, if you don't then don't, but don't do something like this that just creates confusion.

And then you didn't post again until I mentioned I had thought you were a backup cop, at which point you agreed with that. Why didn't you respond to earlier posts about you being a universal backup? Why did you wait until my post to say anything? Makes me wonder if you hadn't thought of the backup cop bit and then seized on it when I posted it.

When nobody is looking, you pick up a book with the title "Detective 101". It may not be the most ethical thing to do, but you decide that you must avenge Dedede's death and take the book with you.

I'm also not sure how much sense this makes as a role, since Kay's role said Dedede got the role PM by ordering his soldiers to steal it. He wasn't a detective. Also, this is another example of your piecemeal claim: first you posted a paraphrase claim, then your role PM, then hints about the upgrade, then you claimed you were now a rolecop, then you posted your new ability text, then finally you claimed you had lied about the text of your original role PM. Doing it bit by bit like this just creates more room for confusion and wastes time. The flavor about your ability doesn't have any secret info; once you claimed rolecop, why not post that at the same time? Why draw it out? It just wastes space, and also time.

You iso my posts and I'm screaming rolecop(like my post regarding Prims claiming)

Having iso'd you more than once, I can say that until you specifically said you got your role Kay dying AND Strawman suggested you were universal backup, I never once thought you might be a rolecop. I'm not even sure what about your posts was meant to look rolecop-ish. Asking for Prims' claim just seemed scummy to me.

Overall, you haven't done that much this game, aside from cause a ruckus on D1 and cause another ruckus D3 with your roleclaim. You haven't scumhunted much this phase, and D2 you made a few weak votes and claimed unnecessarily. So your play has not been that great overall, and your drawn-out claim hasn't been great either.

Wrt to who I would have targeted in your place: someone whose claim I wanted to confirm. Eclipse would be a waste of time to rolecop, I would've gone with either Psych or SB, probably Psych.

[Psych]

I also would have investigated myself if I was Marth, but this whole thing was scummy. I knew I disliked his claim, as when I heard Proto was Charizard and I was Ivysaur, I expected a Squirtle or something, not a Pinplup. I know it's not as likely, but Scorri was also a trophy type thing, so there's something there.

##Uvote, Vote Bluedoom

I would also like to say that I think Tables isn't mafia, but it could be possible. If he was mafia, he wouldn't be making an effort to catch up, but it's possible he's using t as an excuse to lurk. I'd like him to at least character claim or something, as I can see SB's role and Kay's role in the game, but I'm not sure if I can believe him unless I saw his role pm. I'm leaning probably 60/40 on him being scum though.

[Subieko]

I also would have investigated myself if I was Marth, but this whole thing was scummy. I knew I disliked his claim, as when I heard Proto was Charizard and I was Ivysaur, I expected a Squirtle or something, not a Pinplup. I know it's not as likely, but Scorri was also a trophy type thing, so there's something there.

##Uvote, Vote Bluedoom

I would also like to say that I think Tables isn't mafia, but it could be possible. If he was mafia, he wouldn't be making an effort to catch up, but it's possible he's using t as an excuse to lurk. I'd like him to at least character claim or something, as I can see SB's role and Kay's role in the game, but I'm not sure if I can believe him unless I saw his role pm. I'm leaning probably 60/40 on him being scum though.

Tables replaces Folgore Pink, who DID claim--as Sheik. The claim is in the thread way back on D1.

[Paperblade]

Votals

[8] Marth: Shinori, Prims, Manix, Elieson, BBM, StSS, Subieko, Psych

[3] Tables: eclipse, Serious Bananas, Iris

[1] Proto: Proto

[1] BBM: Marth

[0] Iris: Subieko, Elieson

[0] Blitz: Psych Shinori, Subieko, Prims, BBM

[0] Elieson: Strawman

[0] Manix: eclipse

Voteless: Cap'n Flint, Tableskitty

Phase ends in 28 hours and 16 minutes. Remember to choose a stage for the night.

Also remember that the phase won't end early unless everyone has picked a stage.

Edited July 14, 2012 by Paperblade

[Bluedoom]

That theory sounds kind of far-fetched, though...the more simple explanation for the facts is that Prims is Town. Creating more and more complex theories to explain why he's scum doesn't make much sense.

All right, here's my thoughts on your posts, it's a bit long though.

You were pretty scummy on D1 but I dismissed it because you tend to be scummy on D1 as Town. After that, you didn't do much active scumhunting on D2. You voted Elieson, then gave up on that, voted Iris, gave up on that...basically not much conviction in your votes.

No I didn't give up on iris, my vote was still on her and you can guess why I voted her now that you know my role.

You didn't discuss Proto aside from pushing for his claim, and then once you got it, saying he was probably Town. In fact, looking over your D2 posts, you didn't do much at all. You did say later that you trusted Proto and Psych, and then:

There was no real reason for you to claim this at that point. You were not under suspicion and Psych's claim was enough to back Proto up since Psych was seen as pretty Town at the time. Your claim comes off as opportunistic.

Except I already backed it up beforehand noting HOW SIMILAR IT IS TO MY ROLE. It doesn't really change anything and honestly I already said implied I had a night action. Saying you were vanilla + night action=?

Pushing for Prims' claim, although the circumstances under which Prims had said it would be necessary had not happened. Town does not want people to start claiming for no reason, but scum does. And then when you couldn't get Prims to claim you went ahead and rolecopped him. Guess you really, really wanted to know what his role was.

I see nothing wrong with that.

You had one minor vote for Iris earlier where you pressed her to give her opinions...and then you didn't mention her again until this post on the next day phase. And you even admit here that the suspicious behavior had been occuring since N1; why didn't you mention it before this post? You didn't even bring it up when you previously voted Iris.

I'm so sorry that I don't make it on all the time to post stuff and continuously contribute.

Then later you said this. Your suspicions of Iris have weakened quite a bit here; this post first says she suspicious but then says you're not sure. Then in your next post you switched over to a BBM vote. So your Iris suspicions were short-lived and pretty weak.

No they weren't. I still suspect Iris but think BBM is scummier. Don't assume stuff like that.

If it should be easy to guess your role, that suggests that you intended people to figure it out. So why not just claim it and avoid all the confusion that followed over what it was? If you want to claim, claim, if you don't then don't, but don't do something like this that just creates confusion.

I'm like sorry but I like just did that ok? If I claimed backup rolecop I'd need to to post everything in my role pm, including that thing I edited earlier? I didn't have much time on my hands then.

And then you didn't post again until I mentioned I had thought you were a backup cop, at which point you agreed with that. Why didn't you respond to earlier posts about you being a universal backup? Why did you wait until my post to say anything? Makes me wonder if you hadn't thought of the backup cop bit and then seized on it when I posted it.

Because I was offline. I mean really, what is it with you people and "he didn't answer stuff?" Honestly from now on I'll lie as town in every game even though I have a pro-town role, and I'll totally fling around opinions if that's what you like.

I'm also not sure how much sense this makes as a role, since Kay's role said Dedede got the role PM by ordering his soldiers to steal it. He wasn't a detective. Also, this is another example of your piecemeal claim: first you posted a paraphrase claim, then your role PM, then hints about the upgrade, then you claimed you were now a rolecop, then you posted your new ability text, then finally you claimed you had lied about the text of your original role PM. Doing it bit by bit like this just creates more room for confusion and wastes time. The flavor about your ability doesn't have any secret info; once you claimed rolecop, why not post that at the same time? Why draw it out? It just wastes space, and also time.

I don't know, I just claimed rolecop. What's your point? And finally considering you're finding inconsistencies in my flavor, and considering that was already done to Shinori, don't you think if I was scum, my scumbuddies would warn me of posting this 'fakeclaim'? Honestly, why should I be the one pointing this, this is pretty obvious!

[Kriemhild]

Votals

[8] Marth: Shinori, Prims, Manix, Elieson, BBM, StSS, Subieko, Psych

[3] Tables: eclipse, Serious Bananas, Iris

[1] Iris: Subieko, Elieson

[1] Proto: Proto

[1] BBM: Marth

[0] Blitz: Psych Shinori, Subieko, Prims, BBM

[0] Elieson: Strawman

[0] Manix: eclipse

Voteless: Cap'n Flint, Tableskitty

Phase ends in 28 hours and 16 minutes. Remember to choose a stage for the night.

Also remember that the phase won't end early unless everyone has picked a stage.

Subieko confirmed for Doublevoter

[Paperblade]

oh I forgot to cross out her other one

[Kriemhild]

Blues' false claim seems like it was intended as a mockery for the Town. It's so ridiculous I'm actually seriously considering the possibility of Blues being a Jester. It's more likely he's a Jester than the Mafia being stupid enough to think we'll buy such a ridiculous claim. Regardless, we should lynch him.

[Subieko]

@Marth, I feel like replying to your reply to me will get repetitious at this point; I've said my piece, I stand by it, and I should stop spamming up the thread, haha. Going to sleep now, hopefully Blitz will be around tomorrow.

[Blitz]

I don't think we should be pursuing BBM today. At all.

I don't think we should be pursuing BBM at all (forget the today part if I am right about him)

anyways, I need to catch up before I get to post but I will put in the basics

Marth is scum full cop (I was scanned N1)

Shinori is mafia (that is why he knew I was a pok'emon and scum slipped) and your reaction was terrible, I give uyou a day to come up with a counter, and that is all you come up with, that is just sad.Anyways, I know I was defending him, but at least he outed Marth with himself

@Prims, I am pretty sure I am right about Marth and your role and you might as well out SB (as in yourself)

well, that is what I have for starters, let me catch up to the thread and I will post how I came to the conclusions

and as for my role

Dear Blitz,

You are Squirtle.

A Tiny Turtle Pokémon. In times of danger, it pulls its arms and legs inside its shell to protect itself from enemy attacks. When it conceals its neck, it also shoots a powerful stream of water from its mouth. Its shell not only protects its body, it also reduces water friction when it's in the water. When it levels up, it evolves into Wartortle.

You have no special abilities. Your goal is to engage in combat with other fighters and level up.

You are allied with the Town. You win when all threats to the Town have been eliminated.

[Prims]

yeah that's basically the final nail in marth's coffin. i wouldn't have any complaints about hammering him right here

i was towndoc btw :(

still abit cautious about blitz though because if what shinori said was a scumslip, it's still possible marth scanned iris and they just knew blitz's role from being buddies. also blitz, why didn't you just counterclaim marth back on d2?

[Prims]

in fact if one of the pokemon is scum i'd assume it's probably blitz. i don't think marth would claim a pokemon to sound like a town role unless the two claimed pokemon were townies

[Shinori]

No i didn't know you were a pokemon. I stated that I got you mixed up with psych because both of you haven't made any real sort of impression on me this game and I thought you were ivysaur. I've been literally the most aggressive person towards marth since ALL of day 1 and today, yet you think the person I have been actively trying to get lynched is scum and that makes me scum.

What the fuck is that nonsense?

[Shinori]

Also with my redirect on marth if he was cop then there is no way he would have been able to target you, unless he lied about me redirecting him. However if you think about it if me and him were scumbuddies then he would have verified that I redirected him as soon as i mentioned it on Day 2 so as to prove my role and make me not seem as scummy, yet he did not.

[Bluedoom]

Blitz stop lying. I didn't scan you night 1 at all. And I'm proving my role now.

Using your newly acquired skills, you are told...

During the night, you may reply to your Role PM with "Night X - Hey USER". USER will see you, carry you to a strategically save spot on the Stage and hide behind you. Any killing attempts on USER will hit you instead, allowing them to survive. You don't mind the beating though and will be fine. However, any direct killing attempts will still cause you to die since the killer will know what they are dealing with and plan accordingly. On the positive side, being an inanimate object, you won't get tired easily.

This was what I got from scanning prims.

[Prims]

marth, you have 3 minutes to quote your upgrade message without being confirmed scum

[Shinori]

##Unvote:

After thinking about it prims brings up a good point, why didn't you counterclaim marth? To me it looks like you might be scum attempting to get two misslynchs lined up of some sort.

But of course if you think about it that way there's really no reason for it because if we still lynched marth and he was backup cop your whole definition on me being scum and scum slipping wouldn't be accountable anymore and we would just lynch you.

Either way we need to pick between the two to lynch. I unvoted because I don't want any ninja hammers. I want to think.

[Shinori]

He already linked that Prims.

[Shinori]

Something about a book on the ground and his idol dieing. Idk.