[FE4] Nerfed Lords Draft

[Tycho]

Hi all, this is my first hosted draft, so bear with me if I make any mistakes. I haven't participated in many drafts but I consider myself an experienced FE player. For this draft I would like to try something different: I always hated that the lords in this game are so OP, making many other drafted units so much less valuable or even obsolete. So I decided to severely limit their EXP gains, as explained in the bolded parts below. Also Deirdre, Julia, Oifey and Arden are all draftable, let's see how that works out. And Leg Ring on lords is disallowed.

Drafting:

1. This draft is for 4 players.

2. Sigurd and Celice are free for all to use, however with strict EXP limitations. Before the first castle is seized they may gain 199 EXP, after that 100 more per castle, resulting in a maximum level of 23,99. Deirdre, Julia and Oifey will be drafted.

3. First, the mothers are drafted, and their children come with them. Example: Drafting Ayra gives you Ayra, Lakche and Skasaher.

4. Then, the rest of the characters (father characters, fixed characters and substitute characters) are drafted. The order for this part of the draft is reversed, so the person who went last picking mothers goes first picking these characters.

Rules:

1. Undrafted units may only: Recruit characters, initiate Talk conversations and special events that do not require the participants to be lovers.

2. Undrafted units may not do anything not listed above, including but not limited to meatshielding, giving Charisma bonuses, using the Give command, or participating in Lover/Sibling criticals.

3. Other and Neutral units may do as they please without penalty.

4. Arena use is allowed and encouraged.

5. Lords may not use the Leg ring. Other units are fine.

6. All drafted characters must be recruited.

7. Whoever drafts Briggid gets -3 turns if they get Ichival.

Penalties:

1. Non-holy weapon users (Noish, Ayra etc.) have a 3 turn penalty per unit per castle.

2. Holy weapon users (Levin, Shanan etc.) and Dancers have a 7 turn penalty per unit per castle. Example: Using Noish (if undrafted) en route to Jungby results in a 3 turn penalty. Once Sigurd seizes Jungby, you take another 3 turn penalty if you use Noish while en route to Evans.

3. Using the Give command with undrafted characters is a special 12 turn penalty. Not sure if this is standard.

4. Lords breaking their EXP limits is a 5 turn penalty. If they are still overleveled for the next castles limit they may not engage in a single fight, otherwise resulting in another 5 turn penalty.

Exceptions:

1. Generation 1 units may lose a bout in the Arena and then die to an enemy while unequipped to prevent them getting married. The enemy must have no other friendly units in his attack range and must finish the character in a single round.

2. Briggid, Claude and Tiltyu are free to use in Chapter 3.

3. Dew may lower the bridge in Chapter 4 if undrafted. He may not perform any other disallowed actions without penalty.

4. Leaf, Fin and Janne are free to use in Chapter 7.

5. Shanan and Daisy are free to use in Chapter 7 until Yied is seized.

6. From Jungby to Evans, Midir is free to be attacked and counter. He may not do any disallowed actions on player phase.

Participnats:

1. Tycho

2.

3.

4.

[Refa]

Your Julia being draftable idea is really, really silly.  Good luck beating the final boss, everyone else!

You didn't even list all of the EXP limitations! Your 100 EXP/castle is very vague. Do I get 100EXP for going to Nodion, even if I don't conquer it? Does this account for Elite Ring?

Edited July 18, 2012 by Refa

[CT075]

i'd probably just break the exp limit repeatedly and it'd still be faster than trying to hold them back

fe4 drafts are literally just having leaf and celice bumrush

(this isn't a signup)

[Tycho]

Refa: You get 100 EXP for every castle a lord seizes. You don't seize Nodion, so you don't get more EXP.

An unleveled Julia for the final boss is a problem, you're right. Maybe we could let her level to 10 or 15 without contributing to chapter progression (like warp spamming) and make her free for the final chapter.

Camtech: You'd take a five turn penalty for every castle! If that's still not enough to discourage lord rushs then the penalty must be set even higher. I'm just so sick of OP units bumrushing the whole game.

[CT075]

let me put it this way

i can save more than 10 turns per castle by having sigurd rush and murder the boss as opposed to having, say, alec do it

that's how op he is

(and honestly i don't think any of the rest of us had a problem with it ;/)

Edited July 18, 2012 by Camtech

[Psych]

If you want to balance FE4 drafts, you could just prevent Leaf from using Rescue. Or Dancers from having the Leg Ring. Or both.

Also not a sign up.

[Tycho]

I just compared with one of Horace's recent FE4 runs and if I set the penalty to 7 turns it should even out, or I just make it 10 turns to make my point. I playtested this the last couple days a bit with two different teams and found it to be fun. Sure, it's a new idea and may still be unbalanced without further tweaks. But I'm a person who likes finding uses for weaker units and trying something different. As it is in drafts, the same units do the same things every time and I find that boring. Maybe I'm deviating from the norm, that's fine. Then I'll just continue doing my own challenges alone. It was worth a try.

[CT075]

i ran through the prologue doing this as a test run (with a full team no less) and found it hugely tedious and basically not-fun

'shit sigurd got attacked'

'shit alec missed'

'shit cuan's about to die and sigurd's the only one who can attack that bandit'

'shit noish missed'

'shit ardan move faster'

'shit sigurd got attacked'

[Sunwoo]

i ran through the prologue doing this as a test run (with a full team no less) and found it hugely tedious and basically not-fun

'shit sigurd got attacked'

'shit alec missed'

'shit cuan's about to die and sigurd's the only one who can attack that bandit'

'shit noish missed'

'shit ardan move faster'

'shit sigurd got attacked'

So it's full of shit?

[CT075]

you can replace 'shit' with the expletive of your choice if you feel like there is too much shit in here

[Sunwoo]

you can replace 'shit' with the expletive of your choice if you feel like there is too much shit in here

Hahaha. I'm guessing either way, this draft isn't exactly a good idea?

[CT075]

i don't think this is the right way to nerf them (although i can see a draft that somehow limits the lords in other ways being fun)

if others have a different opinion they're welcome to it

[Rapier]

Well, I agree that it won't work. The game's just going to get boring, as Cam said. I'd suggest a draft in which the Lords shouldn't use any rings (but they must be sold at the next seized castle), so that Celice won't become Level 20 at Chapter 7 and Leaf will need some hard work.

This is not a sign-up, either. I can't participate in any drafts until I finish the other drafts I'm in, even though they date to January (or older) and no one remembers them. And playing with the same Olympian Gods of FE4 Drafts for six times consecutively is demotivating. >:

[Terrador]

Well, I agree that it won't work. The game's just going to get boring, as Cam said. I'd suggest a draft in which the Lords shouldn't use any rings (but they must be sold at the next seized castle), so that Celice won't become Level 20 at Chapter 7 and Leaf will need some hard work.

This is not a sign-up, either. I can't participate in any drafts until I finish the other drafts I'm in, even though they date to January (or older) and no one remembers them. And playing with the same Olympian Gods of FE4 Drafts for six times consecutively is demotivating. >:

Wisdom.

[Integrity]

If this idea were to go through as is, Oifaye could not be draftable. Can you even imagine the three players who don't have Lak and Ska, pushing to Ganeshire with ...a Celice who can't kill everything in his way, maybe Roddlevan or Lester if they're lucky? Or, ooh, Delmud-who-gets-3HKOd. Screw that, man.

Besides that, I still think it's kind of a shit idea to begin with but that's the most glaring part.

[Rapier]

If this idea were to go through as is, Oifaye could not be draftable. Can you even imagine the three players who don't have Lak and Ska, pushing to Ganeshire with ...a Celice who can't kill everything in his way, maybe Roddlevan or Lester if they're lucky? Or, ooh, Delmud-who-gets-3HKOd. Screw that, man.

Besides that, I still think it's kind of a shit idea to begin with but that's the most glaring part.

I agree. Not to mention some of the kids can be nerfed enough to suck more than their regular counterparts (when they are paired with Ayra and Lex/Holyn, for example). And drafts need to be quick (hooray captain obvious). It's no use wasting 30 turns to beat a single boss because everyone sucks except Oufaye.

[Tycho]

Lakche, Skasa and Delmud with the right fathers and inherited items are all capable of semi rushing Ganeishire. With Elite they're up to speed in no time and they can have Leg Ring, Power + Shield, Hero Sword etc. They will lose some turns against Oifey in the beginning, but will quickly surpass him. And Celice without Leg Ring and unpromoted will mean this draft would be generally slower paced.

And if you have neither Oifey nor Lakche, Skasa, Delmud then you just have to take a penalty and use Oifey. Maybe you had less penalties than the other players in first gen, because you got Ethlin or Aideen. In this draft every player would get multiple penalties, because healing is much more important for weaker units.

Anyway, I can see this concept probably has a lot of flaws and might be unbalanced and you people are more experienced with drafts than me and know better. But I'm liking it and am currently playing it with two different teams, one with Oifey, one without. I'll just make it a fun playthrough then instead of a draft.

[CT075]

They will lose some turns against Oifey in the beginning, but will quickly surpass him.

they will never

not unless they magically grow a horse due to lack of exp

[Tycho]

Delmud has a horse and Leg + other rings, with Elite he will surpass him quickly. Oifey would first need to get enough money for the Leg Ring while still maintaining his weapons.

Lak and Ska can also have Leg + other rings, matching Oifey's move in the beginning. By the time Oifey can purchase the Leg Ring you should have another unit capable of rushing, like Fee, promoted Levin!Arthur or Ares. Or you could have have a dancer, Leaf to save turns later or could've saved turns in first gen.

[Integrity]

And if you have neither Oifey nor Lakche, Skasa, Delmud then you just have to take a penalty and use Oifey.

This should never, never never never never never be the foundation of a draft rule. Penalties should always be avoidable unless you (the drafter) specifically screw yourself to not have units at a juncture.

And topping that off, that only accounts for three people out of four, max. The fourth person has to what, either hope to God he got Lester or go for the incredible Dimna/Tristan/Radney rush?

EDIT: Don't get me wrong, mate, the SIGCEL RUSH MODE of FE4 drafts is a little grating and could certainly be betterified, but this isn't the way to do it. At all.

Edited July 19, 2012 by Integrity

[Baldrick]

I had an idea like this once, but I haven't got around to balancing it.

Sigurd and Celice must finish their gens at base (allowed to be attacked and seize) and Alec, Noish, Ardan, Ethlin, Ayra and their kids were free. I decided that any gimmick draft that required that many free units to be tolerable probably wasn't a great idea.

In this kind of draft, draftable Julia and Oifaye are a bad idea. This cannot be understated.

[Refa]

Yeah, if you're trying to create an experimental draft, you need to have like, as few changes as possible from the norm. Otherwise, it'll be hard to figure out which parts work and which parts don't. Kind of like, you know, actual experiments.