[FE12]Another MU Testing Draft (Experimental)

[PKL]

Oh, you pulled off the P8 2 turn? refa. I tried 2 turning in the other draft but i had est and my caeda wasnt trained so I couldnt do it. And btw, your P3 strat is pure RNG abuse lol.

[PKL]

[FE12]Another MU testing draft

[spoiler=Male Cavalier My Unit]

Male Cavalier

Name: Oscar

Bases

HP	Str	Mag	Skl	Spd	Lck	Def	Res
20	8	1	7	9	3	7	0

Growths

HP	Str	Mag	Skl	Spd	Lck	Def	Res
100	50	15	60	45	60	35	5

Prologue 1 3/3

MU smashes Jagen's face.

Unit	Lv	Xp	HP	Str	Mag	Skl	Spd	Lck	Def	Res	WLv
Oscar	2	60	21	9	1	8	10	4	8	0	Sword E Lance D

Prologue 2 2/5

MU could double Rody so Ryan could finish him in Turn 2 while MU finished Luke.

Unit	Lv	Xp	HP	Str	Mag	Skl	Spd	Lck	Def	Res	WLv
Oscar	3	10	22	9	1	9	10	5	9	0	Sword E Lance D	

Prologue 3 2/7

MU kills the mercenary and lures Caeda. Luke sits on a fort and Rody too. Ryan snipes

Caeda. MU KOs one of the fighters and Rody+Luke teamed up on the other.

Unit	Lv	Xp	HP	Str	Mag	Skl	Spd	Lck	Def	Res	WLv
Oscar	3	80	22	9	1	9	10	5	9	0	Sword E Lance D	

Prologue 4 Athena Route 2/9

Ryan chips a soldier, Caeda kills the soldier. MU kills the archer and lures Athena. Then I clean

up and feed the Athena kill to Caeda.

Unit	Lv	Xp	HP	Str	Mag	Skl	Spd	Lck	Def	Res	WLv
Oscar	4	61	23	10	1	10	10	5	10	0	Sword E Lance D	

Prologue 5 2/11

Ryan had to lure the Hunter to him while not luring the bandit that was left. Luke and Rody

teamed up on the Hunter on the east. MU weakened the thief and blocked it from reaching Ryan.

Caeda blocked the bandit. Athena killed a bandit near the other hunter. In EP, the hunter goes for

Ryan, the bandit goes for Rody and the thief SDs on Rody too. Then, ryan finished the hunter.

Athena weakens the boss, MU too and Caeda gets the kill. Then Rody gets out of range of the bandit and Luke weakens him

and he suicides in EP.

Unit	Lv	Xp	HP	Str	Mag	Skl	Spd	Lck	Def	Res	WLv
Oscar	4	81	23	10	1	10	10	5	10	0	Sword E Lance D	

Prologue 6 Draug Route 1/12

Cecil weakened the south soldier. Ryan trades Steel Bow and uses it to kill Soldier.

Caeda KOs the mage. Athena ORKOs north soldier. Oscar kills the archer. Merric weakens Draug.

In EP, Draug suicides on Athena.

Unit	Lv	Xp	HP	Str	Mag	Skl	Spd	Lck	Def	Res	WLv
Oscar	5	11	24	11	2	11	11	5	11	0	Sword E Lance D

Prologue 7 Cain Route 2/14

Caeda goes up and ORKOs the north archer with Steel Lance. Merric chips the armor on the west.

Athena KOs it with Steel Sword. Ryan chips the other Armor up north and MU finishes it off. Cecil blocks

the Myrmidon from reaching Merric. In EP, Athena weakens the west myrmidon and the other myrmidon goes after

Cecil. Athena also lures the archer. Now MU weakens Cain with Steel Lance and Caeda finishes him off with Steel Lance.

Merric weakens the north Myrmidon so Cecil can kill him. Ryan kills the Myrmidon Athena weakened with Steel Bow.

And athena ORKOs the archer.

Unit	Lv	Xp	HP	Str	Mag	Skl	Spd	Lck	Def	Res	WLv
Oscar	5	45	24	11	2	11	11	5	11	0	Sword E Lance D

Prologue 8 3/17

The 2 turn is impossible without rigging and a myrmidon MU. So what I did was the same old same old

3 turn. Caeda lured Katarina, then I killed her and her thieves. The Silver Axe bandits were dealt with

by Cain and Oscar.

Unit	Lv	Xp	HP	Str	Mag	Skl	Spd	Lck	Def	Res	WLv
Oscar	6	35	25	12	2	12	11	6	11	0	Sword E Lance D	

Caeda got out of Prologue in like, Level 8. Ryan got out at level 4. Luke got to Level 2.

Rody stayed at base. Cecille stayed at base. Merric stayed at base. Athena got a level

and Marth got a level. Cavalier MU is very OP and once he gets out of Prologue with THOSE

stats...hes gonna be doubling with soon-to-be C lances and I didnt feed many kills to him.

Imagine a cavalier MU with favoritism...yeah, banned.

[PKL]

I CBF'd to do Prologue 8 right now. So:

[spoiler=Female Mage]

Female Mage

Name: Aqua

Bases

HP	Str	Mag	Skl	Spd	Lck	Def	Res
18	3	4	6	6	3	2	3

Growths

HP	Str	Mag	Skl	Spd	Lck	Def	Res
80	25	55	55	50	60	5	20

Prologue 1 4/4

MU gets like 2HKO'd by everything, so she constantly has to vulnerary.

Unit	Lv	Xp	HP	Str	Mag	Skl	Spd	Lck	Def	Res	WLv
Aqua	2	70	19	3	5	7	6	4	2	4	Tome D

Prologue 2 3/7

Aqua and Ryan sit on forts in Turn 1. Aqua gets attacked by Luke.

Fort heals her. Ryan attacks Luke and stays in range of Rody to lure him. MU finishes off Luke

and remains in the fort. Rody attacks Ryan. Fort heals Aqua. Ryan chips Rody,

Aqua attacks Rody and then he SDs on EP.

Unit	Lv	Xp	HP	Str	Mag	Skl	Spd	Lck	Def	Res	WLv
Aqua	3	50	19	4	6	8	7	5	2	5	Tome D

Prologue 3 3/10

Easy stuff. MU sits on fort. Rody lures a fighter to him. MU 2hkos the merc. Then, Luke

lures the other fighter and Rody heals and lures Caeda. Ryan snipes Caeda. MU and Luke tag

team the last fighter.

Unit	Lv	Xp	HP	Str	Mag	Skl	Spd	Lck	Def	Res	WLv
Aqua	4	00	19	4	7	8	8	6	2	6	Tome D

Prologue 4 Athena Route 3/13

I got a 2 turn in my first try but it was due to luck (crits with MU) that I wasnt counting on,

so I dropped it. Instead I got a 3 turn. Fed Athena to Caeda.

Unit	Lv	Xp	HP	Str	Mag	Skl	Spd	Lck	Def	Res	WLv
Aqua	4	76	19	4	7	8	8	6	2	6	Tome D

Prologue 5 2/15

MU Athena and Caeda teamed up on the boss. Pretty simple chapter.

Unit	Lv	Xp	HP	Str	Mag	Skl	Spd	Lck	Def	Res	WLv
Aqua	5	26	20	4	8	8	8	7	2	6	Tome D

Prologue 6 Draug Route 1/16

Athena kills north soldier. Merric kills Archer. Cecille chips the soldier and

ryan trades Steel Bow and kills him. Caeda KOs the mage. MU weakens Draug and he SDs

on MU in EP.

Unit	Lv	Xp	HP	Str	Mag	Skl	Spd	Lck	Def	Res	WLv
Aqua	5	89	20	4	8	8	8	7	2	6	Tome D

Prologue 7 Cain Route 2/18

Caeda goes up and kills the archer. MU ORKOs the west armor. Athena full moves west. All the

cavaliers go up. Next, Luke weakens Cain. Caeda too. Cecille finishes him off with Steel Sword.

Athena KOs the archer. Rody stands next to Cecille and uses a vulnerary to block the myrmidon from attacking her.

MU elfires the myrmidon. In EP, the armor dies to MU and the myrmidon dies on Athena.

Unit	Lv	Xp	HP	Str	Mag	Skl	Spd	Lck	Def	Res	WLv
Aqua	6	59	20	5	8	8	8	7	2	6	Tome c

Prologue 8 3/21

This took a lot of time to figure out. Mage MU is pretty bad haha, but not as bad as ARCHER. Anyway, Base Cecil is OHKO'd by Katarina I used this to my advantage and let her die. This lured Katarina but didnt intrudge the thieves from suiciding on Caeda in EP. I then sacrifice Rody to weaken stuff. Kill more things. MU chips Katarina and Athena finishes her off.

Units Deployed:

Marth

My Unit

Caeda

Athena

Cain

Cecille

Rody

Ryan

Unit	Lv	Xp	HP	Str	Mag	Skl	Spd	Lck	Def	Res	WLv
Aqua	6	90	20	5	8	8	8	7	2	6	Tome C

Edited August 4, 2012 by Ghost Marcia Drafter

[PKL]

Finished.

Prologue 8 3/21

This took a lot of time to figure out. Mage MU is pretty bad haha, but not as bad as ARCHER. Anyway, Base Cecil is OHKO'd by Katarina I used this to my advantage and let her die. This lured Katarina but didnt intrude the thieves from suiciding on Caeda in EP. I then sacrifice Rody to weaken stuff. Kill more things. MU chips Katarina and Athena finishes her off.

Units Deployed:

Marth

My Unit

Caeda

Athena

Cain

Cecille

Rody

Ryan

Unit	Lv	Xp	HP	Str	Mag	Skl	Spd	Lck	Def	Res	WLv
Aqua	6	90	20	5	8	8	8	7	2	6	Tome C

So, despite Mage MU being incredibly terrible, it is still possible to get a decent TC in Prologue. I mean, its worse than Cavalier by 5, but its not that bad. Archer on the other hand...so, anyway, so far I think Fighter MU and both cavaliers have been proven ban-worthy. They would trivialize the game right from the beginning and make earlygame picks not needed at all. Archer is incredibly bad, both of them, so they should both be allowed. Mage is also balanced enough. As long as male MU cannot reclass, it seems fine to allow male archer and male mage MU. Not sure about Myrmidon. Refa isnt even in the draft and his run was too "lucky".

Edited August 4, 2012 by Ghost Marcia Drafter

[Jedi]

Male Mage MU

Noble Child, Diverse, Truth-Seeker

AKA the growths are the same as PKL's Mage

Name: Ventus [to go with PKL's KH theme]

P1 4/4

DAMN Mage MU is SQUISHY

P2 3/7

MU and Ryan sit on the forts and lure the cavaliers to them or else they'd die terrible deaths, they chip away until they win

P3 3/10

Rody lures the fighters, MU hangs back on a fort to fight the merc, Luke lures the other, Rody lures Cadea and Ryan takes her out in one shot, everyone else swarms the last fighter

P4 4/14 [Athena Route]

Rushed but I had a moment of stupidity and it cost me a turn

P 5 2/16

Kill everything and MU and Athena destroy the boss

P6 1/17

Athena kills north soldier. Merric kills Archer. Cecille chips the soldier and

ryan trades Steel Bow and kills him. Caeda KOs the mage. MU weakens Draug and he SDs

on MU in EP.

I did this

P7 2/19 [Cain Route]

Mounts move up, foots to the west, they kill everything, Cecil finishes off Cain who was weakened by Cadea, Luke and Rody

P8 3/22

Rushed downwards watched out for that damned Silver Axe and charged more, Rody sacrificed himself for the greater good luring the boss up and everyone defeated as many enemies as possible..

MU's stats are pretty much the same as PKL's except a little more HP, + 1 Spd and - 1 Mag oh and 3 Def

Overall I got 42 turns with both MU's combined

Edited August 10, 2012 by Jedi

[eclipse]

Time to punch this sucker in the face.

[spoiler=Knight]Armor Knight - Orphan, Kind, Honorable. Will be explained as I go.

Prologue 1 - 3/3

The build outlined above means that no one can hit you for damage. It also means you can 2HKO Jagen. If anything other than Orphan is chosen, MU will be short of the 2HKO by 1. Kind was to ensure that I take as little damage as possible. Honorable is in the hopes that I'll gain some Speed before this is over. After the level off of Jagen, MU has 2 Speed.

Prologue 2 - 4/7

MU being a damn tank means that Luke will auto-target Ryan, thus wasting a turn. Since I am still at "base" Strength, MU fails to 2HKO the enemies.

THOUGHTS SO FAR: MU must have two Strength procs, or his turn counts go downhill. I'm redoing Prologue 3, because he doesn't do enough damage, and Ryan just bit the dust.

Prologue 3 - 2/9

. . .or I can get lucky with stats, as one of the Fighters spawned with a bit less HP/DEF (whatever it was, it gave me the clear). I had to have Rody and Luke trade weapons, because Luke was the one that had enough juice to KO the weakened Fighter. Ryan was used to chip a Fighter, and MU killed Caeda.

Prologue 4 (Athena) - 3/12

I can't ORKO anything, so that's why I took an extra turn. On the upside, Athena did no damage to me.

MU gained Speed here, and is currently at 3 Speed.

Prologue 5 - 3/15

GUESS WHO COULDN'T REACH THE BOSS IN TWO TURNS? MU's Speed meant that the enemies that could do any sort of significant damage couldn't double him ('cept the boss). I kept this run because Luke got an amazing level.

Prologue 6 (Ogma) - 2/17

This map features one-man chokepoints, and MU excels at this. I also gained chip damage in the form of Merric, and he permanently replaces Ryan.

Turn 1: Cecille tosses a Steel Sword to Athena. Merric positions himself such that he will be targeted by the archer, and chips the northern fighter. Athena finishes with her Steel Sword, taking no damage. MU goes south and "chips" the southern fighter.

Turn 1 EP: Other fighter suicides, Ogma goes after Athena (who flippin' misses), cavalier attempts to damage MU, and kinda fails.

Turn 2: Merric "chips", Athena runs elsewhere, MU replaces her and deals hefty damage to Ogma. Luke runs up to the cavalier and finishes him, and gains one of everything that isn't related to magic.

Turn 2 EP: Ogma suicides on MU; MU survives with 2 HP.

Prologue 7 (Cain) - 2/19

If the enemy armor to the left has 26 HP/9 DEF, then MU can 2HKO with a Steel Lance at 12 Strength. Otherwise, he'll need more Strength/you'll need to deploy Ryan (and the latter will hurt).

Turn 1: Merric chips the northern armor, Rody finishes and gets a great level (HP/Str/Skl/Spd), MU hits the western armor for exactly half his life. Luke runs towards Cain, and Caeda kills the northern archer.

Turn 1 EP: Rody takes some damage from the myrmidon, the armor suicides, and the other myrmidon learns why armors are their bane. Oh, and random archer chip damage blah.

Turn 2: Caeda (Steel Lance), Luke (Steel Sword), and Rody (Iron Lance) combined is just enough to kill off Cain. Athena kicks the crap out of the archer, after MU kills the weakened myrmidon. Merric chips the other myrmidon.

Turn 2 EP: Last enemy suicides into Merric.

MU has gained six levels, and is currently at 4 speed. This is about average, as he has 55% speed growth.

Prologue 8 - 4/23

I had to take this one a bit more slowly, because MU was doubled by Katarina. Caeda gets map MVP for dodging Catarina and a Hand Axe, both of which would've ruined her day. Katarina was ORKO'd by Athena; everyone else did their best to stay alive.

[spoiler=Pegasus Knight]Pegasus Knight - Farmer's Child, Diverse, Honorable. Will be explained as I go.

Prologue 1 - 3/3

With Farmer's Child, she's bulky enough to take on everyone and not die. Diverse is so that she has a shot at 3-turning Prologue 2 (she MUST gain Strength on this level), and Honorable to ensure that she gains at least 1 Speed before Prologue 3, unless the RNG decides to be a cheesehead (by her not getting Speed with a 70% growth).

Alternately, she must gain Speed here and in the next chapter, or Prologue 2 cannot be done in 3 turns.

Prologue 2 - 3/6

MU gained Speed twice, so she was able to double Rody. Luke spawned with 24 HP, which was a clean 3HKO; thus, Ryan sat on the fort for the entire chapter, while MU countered Luke twice and hit on Turn 3 PP to finish him. 10 Speed means I have a chance of doubling the southern merc; I will NEED this.

Prologue 3 - 3/9

MU with "base" strength can't ORKO the merc, and that puts a huge dent in my plans - one big enough to warrant an extra turn. If MU has 8 Strength and 10-11 Speed, she can double and kill the southern merc. Rody can bait the fighter, and the other fighter can be drawn in using Luke. After that, it's a matter of killing leftovers.

Prologue 4 (Athena) - 2/11

Things are SO much easier when MU can reach the enemies! On turn 1, she killed the archer, which meant I could use Caeda. On turn 1 EP, Athena attacked MU, as did a generic myrmidon and merc - the latter was doubled and died. On turn 2, it was clean-up time.

Prologue 5 - 2/13

MU flies south and kills the hunter, Athena kills a nearby axe guy, Luke is used as bait, and Caeda flies close to MU. When turn 2 rolls around, Merric is thoroughly confused, because most of the map is dead. Boss died to the lady squad.

Prologue 6 (Draug) - 2/15

If the northern soldier spawns with 6 speed, then Merric will double and kill him; otherwise, you'll have to get creative with unit positioning. MU flew over the river to kill the archer, Rody and Caeda teamed up to kill the southern soldier (with Rody safely out of range of the mage), and thanks to positioning, Draug's AI decided that Merric was the best target. Fed Caeda the boss kill.

Prologue 7 (Cain) - 2/17

Draug took over armor MU's role for this chapter. I had flying MU kill the myrmidon (it was a 2HKO), then fly up and kill Cain. The rest was more-or-less identical to my armor run, except that Ryan was necessary for chip damage to the starting armor (or Draug would fail to 2HKO).

Prologue 8 - 3/20

This was especially messy, because I had to kill the arrow guys in a hurry. In the process, Athena and Cain were sacrificed - Athena to kill a Silver Axe guy and Cain to draw Katarina. MU ORKO'd her, while Caeda killed off two thieves that decided to run into her. Marthipan got a bit of experience in, somehow.

This particular MU wasn't that impressive, IMO. Here's her final stats:

Name   Level   HP  Str  Mag  Skl  Spd  Lck  Def  Res
MU     7.71    28   8    4   14   14    5    8    7
Bases          22   7    3    8    9    3    5    6 
Growths        70  45   10   65   70   60   30   10

I'd be facepalming hard if I had her for a unit. She's Strength-and-Luck screwed, neatly Skill blessed, minorly Speed and HP blessed and majorly Luck blessed. Due to the nature of this run, I probably could've used less Skill and more Strength.

Overall:

Armor Knight - Needs a strong team to back him, as he's pretty useless on wide-open maps. (23)

Pegasus Knight - Rig an early Strength proc, and she'll rip through the rest of Prologue for you. I didn't, and that cost me a couple of turns. (20)

Turns - 43, which isn't that great.

Edited August 11, 2012 by eclipse

[PKL]

Told you Pegknight is meh. :p

[General Horace]

finished cavalier, 16 turn total. Seems my cav was faster than pkl's.

starting myrmidon now.

p1 - 3 turns

p2 - 2

p3 - 3

p4 - 2

p5 - 2

p6 - 1

p7 - 2

p8 - 3

18 turns total

Edited August 11, 2012 by General Horace

[PKL]

^ P8 2 turn? We were tied everywhere else.

Edited August 11, 2012 by Ghost Marcia Drafter

[General Horace]

yeah, 2 turn in p8 for cav. my myrm sucked too much to do it.

[eclipse]

Told you Pegknight is meh. :p

Had I rigged that Strength proc, my turns would've been lower. . .gimme a sec, and I'll post numbers with it rigged.

Run with rigged Strength gain on Chapter 1 (same build):

P1 - 3

P2 - 3

P3 - 2 (this particular MU's gained Strength on every level, currently level 4)

P4 (Athena) - 2 (this is still doable even if MU is doubled, which mine was)

P5 - 2 (still doable even if MU can't double the southern Hunter - she'll take a boatload of damage, but she'll live)

P6 (Draug) - 1 (see what everyone else did)

P7 (Cain) - 2

P8 - 3 (sorry Cain)

Total: 18

This particular MU was nuts - this is what I mean:

Name   Level   HP  Str  Mag  Skl  Spd  Lck  Def  Res
MU      8.33   26  11    5   13   12    7    8    7
Bases          22   7    3    8    9    3    5    6 
Growths        70  45   10   65   70   60   30   10

She's slightly HP screwed, Strength blessed, insanely Magic blessed, Skill could go either way, majorly Speed screwed (that's a 42% Speed growth she's showing), average Luck, Defense blessed, and lolRes. If she gains Strength early, her Speed won't matter as much, since she starts off ahead of Cavalier MU. For low-turning Prologue chapters, Strength is much more necessary than Speed. In the main game, I think Speed is better.

Now, if I rigged Speed and Strength on her, it would be 17, due to a P2 2-turn.

Edited August 11, 2012 by eclipse

[PKL]

Had I rigged that Strength proc, my turns would've been lower. . .gimme a sec, and I'll post numbers with it rigged.

Well, myrm is also broken if you rig but should we penalize them and ban them because theres the possibility of rigging? :/

Cavalier and Fighter are so OP they dont even need rigging lol. AK seems fine, other than the fact that he trivialize damage completely. But he seems very mediocre at turn shaving.

[eclipse]

Well, myrm is also broken if you rig but should we penalize them and ban them because theres the possibility of rigging? :/

Cavalier and Fighter are so OP they dont even need rigging lol. AK seems fine, other than the fact that he trivialize damage completely. But he seems very mediocre at turn shaving.

In Pegasus Knight's case, rigging is mandatory, or turn counts will suffer. I can bring up numbers, if you want.

Now, for a numerical breakdown on your Cavalier (gained five levels):

HP: LOL 100% growth

Strength: Gained four strength with 50% growth

Magic: Not very useful on him at this point

Skill: Gained four skill with 60% growth

Speed: Gained two Speed with 45% growth

Luck: Gained three luck with 60% growth

Defense: Gained four defense with 35% growth

Res: LOL 5% growth

Your cavalier is insanely Defense blessed and relatively Strength and Skill blessed. Luck is absolutely average, and Speed is about right - two Speed in five levels translates to 40%.

In terms of bases, Cavalier will start off better - the only things Pegasus Knight have over Cavalier is insane RES and a point of Speed. The durability hit means that my unit creation choices are much more limited, unless I want to start off P1 with a turn deficit. Fighters start with a good amount of HP and better Strength, which means they can focus their unit creation choices on other stats. However, if you compare SB's archer run to what I'm about to pull, there's a huge difference - enough to warrant keeping PK out of the drafting pool, IMO.

[eclipse]

Okay, done. Thoughts on my run?

[Refa]

how bad does MU need to be to be left in

[Jedi]

how bad does MU need to be to be left in

I'm not too sure myself.. I wish I knew more bout fe12 to really be of any help

[PKL]

Okay, done. Thoughts on my run?

I dont see how cavalier getting str in 4 levels out of 5 ever helped though. I dont think it ever cut turns. If anything my cavalier MU was too bad to 2 turn P8. PegKnight MU would require untold amounts of rigging, lets not go overboard and claim shes broken because she can theoretically gain str in every level and break prologue. Like, seriously, why would you ever argue something like this? "Warren can get str and spd on every level and break the rest of the game" is how you are sounding, tbh.

Also, remember that a pegknight MU with no rigging comes out of prologue probably not ORKO'ing, in axelandia and hunterlandia. The most she will do is like, getting the bullion and maybe getting a shot at lorenz, which already any MU can do. Cavalier MU isnt even comparable in the main game since he/she will actually have durability and WTA + doubling to own the rest of the game. He can actually trivialize earlygame so much as to completely mitigate the need for earlygame dudes. I think youre too stubborn on pegknight MU since the pegknight draft so I wont even bother anymore. You've clearly set your mind on it and wont listen to what I have to say.

Edited August 11, 2012 by Ghost Marcia Drafter

[Jedi]

Fighter, Myrm and the Cavaliers I think are the OP ones from what i've seen the rest look fine

[PKL]

how bad does MU need to be to be left in

Not as bad as archer, mage and armor knight I hope.

[Jedi]

so PKL what's the verdict?

We gonna try letting more MU's available in a full FE12 draft? Maybe do something like.. Draft your MU on the first round and then all the characters?

[eclipse]

I dont see how cavalier getting str in 4 levels out of 5 ever helped though. I dont think it ever cut turns. If anything my cavalier MU was too bad to 2 turn P8. PegKnight MU would require untold amounts of rigging, lets not go overboard and claim shes broken because she can theoretically gain str in every level and break prologue. Like, seriously, why would you ever argue something like this? "Warren can get str and spd on every level and break the rest of the game" is how you are sounding, tbh.

Also, remember that a pegknight MU with no rigging comes out of prologue probably not ORKO'ing, in axelandia and hunterlandia. The most she will do is like, getting the bullion and maybe getting a shot at lorenz, which already any MU can do. Cavalier MU isnt even comparable in the main game since he/she will actually have durability and WTA + doubling to own the rest of the game. He can actually trivialize earlygame so much as to completely mitigate the need for earlygame dudes. I think youre too stubborn on pegknight MU since the pegknight draft so I wont even bother anymore. You've clearly set your mind on it and wont listen to what I have to say.

*sighs* I don't listen to you because your logic is horrible. If you want to make a good argument, back it up with logic, not personal experience.

Numbers time. I will be using Caeda and her amazing 6 Strength as an example.

Caeda is fast enough to double most of the game. During P4, she does not have the Strength to ORKO anyone, nor is she even close to it. During P5, she cannot ORKO the hunters, due to her low Strength (I think a Strength proc might fix this, but I don't remember). During P6, she has a shot at Draug's mage, but cannot ORKO the Archer on either side without a Steel Lance (and don't get me started about the cavalier). During P7, she can ORKO stuff, but requires Steel to do so. She cannot reliably kill Cain on her own - if he hits twice, she dies. During P8, she can naturally double Katarina, and may double the thieves; she won't ORKO the latter without Steel.

Thus, having existent Strength in Prologue useful; why do you think Fighter is so damn good? It sure as hell isn't his 3 Defense.

PK MU requires an early Strength proc (her first level, to be exact) - after that, she's got Speed on her side. Once Steels show up, she can start ORKOing things reliably (if Caeda and her naturally lower Strength can do it, MU most certainly can). Compare her turns with Mage/Archer - she's capable of beating both of them out, and even without the first Strength/Speed proc, will still outperform the former (and match the latter). I'm not sure what part of "free flying unit with workable bases and good growths" is going over your head.

I have no issue with putting Knight/General MU in, because he's got movement issues.

[PKL]

Im not talking from experience. If it was from experience, I would say PK is pretty good. But, she 8 base spd and 70% growth or 10 spd base and 55% growth. Caeda doubles everything much more reliably than a pegknight. PK MU misses a lot of of doubles ocasionally if she doesnt get those spd procs. Which is what Im trying to say. She wont match caeda's spd at all, due to how little amount of levels she is going to be gaining. And Caeda is an amazing prologue character, not because she can ORKO, but because she has the highest damage output out of anyone due to her doubling. I guess a spd blessed MU could be called a second caeda, but thats nowhere near as broken as cavalier or fighter. Seriously, if theres any game where I know what Im talking about, I would expect it to be FE12.

[charlie_]

To be honest I don't see fighter breaking the main game with 6 move.

[eclipse]

Im not talking from experience. If it was from experience, I would say PK is pretty good. But, she 8 base spd and 70% growth or 10 spd base and 55% growth. Caeda doubles everything much more reliably than a pegknight. PK MU misses a lot of of doubles ocasionally if she doesnt get those spd procs. Which is what Im trying to say. She wont match caeda's spd at all, due to how little amount of levels she is going to be gaining. And Caeda is an amazing prologue character, not because she can ORKO, but because she has the highest damage output out of anyone due to her doubling. I guess a spd blessed MU could be called a second caeda, but thats nowhere near as broken as cavalier or fighter. Seriously, if theres any game where I know what Im talking about, I would expect it to be FE12.

It was an illustration as to why Strength is so damn important in the Prologue. Also, did you miss the part where Caeda fails to ORKO stuff until she gets Steel Lances? She can kind of get away with not finishing off loldiers; if she fails to do that with an arrow unit, she's in a lot of trouble.

I have half a mind to retrace my MU with average stats; thanks to the sheer number of resets I had to do because I kept killing off Luke/Merric, I've got a rough idea of what doubling range is.