[FE10] The Best Draft team

[Florete]

Since I have a say but haven't said anything, this is what I could see:

Nolan

Ilyana

Jill

Nailah

Elincia

Marcia

Nephenee

Titania

Boyd or Oscar

Differences from what seem to have been discussed earlier:

Nolan - With one of him and Edward free for the first three maps, Nolan seems like the ideal choice due to generally better durability and much greater access to ranged weapons. The only problem is the quick 1-4 clear that I'm not particularly familiar with. I could see this being Edward based on that and the fact that Ilyana and Jill are already on this team.

No Soren - I don't like the idea of two Sages on a "best of" team. We can still use him for 3-1, and by 3-2 we have Titania, Boyd/Oscar, Ilyana, and Nephenee (and Ike). Ilyana is a better choice considering her availability and ability to choose any part 4 route.

Oscar or Boyd - I'm really just not sure which one would be better in this situation, though I'm leaning toward Oscar for mobility. In fact, I'm not even sure if one of them is preferable over someone else since it seems like overkilling part 3, but I don't know who else I would put in since everywhere is handled pretty well.

Part 4 teams could look like:

Silver		Greil		Hawk
Micaiah		Ike		Elincia
Sothe		Nailah		Reyson
Leanne		Titania
	Rafiel		Nolan
Jill				Marcia
Ilyana

Those teams are already ideal as far as I can tell, so the two extras (Nephenee and Boyd/Oscar) can go wherever the player would feel needs the most help. Probably one each for Greil and Hawk.

I don't know how many turns the addition of Oscar/Boyd on the team cuts, but if it's few to none...I could honestly see Tibarn being a good choice, weird as it might sound. His power would be really nice for 4-E-3/4/5, the only place this team seems to be lacking in (since no Dragons). Giffca or Cain would also work, but I like Tibarn for his Canto. Something to think about, at least.

At the end of the day, I like how, out of nine choices, seven are female.

[PKL]

Ilyana is in no way superior to Soren even with the availability lead. Part 1 is already fine with just Edward, Jill and Nailah. Ilyana also has the speed issues that Soren doesnt, due to BEXP and he doesnt need any babying whatsoever to get to meteor.

[Florete]

Soren and Ilyana both have Speed issues. I find whatever Sage I use (even Calill) always needs Resolve to both live and double consistently, and Ilyana should have enough to make that work. Where is Meteor particularly special (and it should be early enough that Ilyana can't reasonably have gotten C Fire yet) and does it make up for part 1 and 4-3? Even if Ilyana is redundant for a lot of her maps, I can't see how Soren wouldn't be even more redundant.

EDIT: Btw, how is 4-1 clearable in 4 turns? I remember never being able to do anything better than 5 in drafts.

Edited July 30, 2012 by Madam Red

[Ciarre]

Ilyana doesn't really do much in part 1 either. Any sage (or any other unit, period) for the perfect run we're looking for would be redundant. Titania can 1-turn 3-5 if we try for it and the desert already has Jill.

And, I'm not fond of the "pick all of the good units" thing that we're doing. It can be the best team but not the best draft team since it's never going to happen unless someone pulls a 13th in a SOYO.

I remember the FE6 draft that Lord Raven (iirc, it could've been someone else) started that had everyone using the same team, but having each person pick a unit from a "group". Like, one group would have, for example, Titania/Edward/Nolan/Jill, the second group would have Marcia/Elincia/someone, etc. and we all take turns picking a unit down the line.

^iirc, torch/pass/boots Ike, I think.

Edited July 30, 2012 by CR-S01

[Florete]

Ilyana doesn't really do much in part 1 either. Any sage (or any other unit, period) for the perfect run we're looking for would be redundant. Titania can 1-turn 3-5 if we try for it and the desert already has Jill.

So are you suggesting we drop the Sage and pick someone else entirely?

I could see that. But the desert needs more than Jill.

And, I'm not fond of the "pick all of the good units" thing that we're doing. It can be the best team but not the best draft team since it's never going to happen unless someone pulls a 13th in a SOYO.

But that's kind of the point. The best team you could possibly get in a draft setting regardless of your chances. You really can't accurately determine it if you think in terms of "now a unit from one tier down" since the units you and others choose are entirely dependent on what they've already chosen. To do what you suggest, we'd basically have to do an entire mock-draft session where one person is chosen as the "ideal team" drafter and everyone else does their best to choose a reasonable team but still leaves the "ideal" choices for that first drafter. And that just makes things overly complicated.

^iirc, torch/pass/boots Ike, I think.

But what about the other sides? I don't think one unit each to the east and west can get rid of every enemy in 4 turns.

Also note that I have been out of the draft setting for over a year, so my memory may be hazy in places.

[Ciarre]

^Uh, no. What I meant was (for example):

Group 1:

Titania

Edward

Nolan

Jill

Group 2:

Marcia

Elincia

Nephenee

Oscar

Group 3:

someone

someone2

someone3

Person 1 picks Jill from group 1, person 2 picks Oscar from group 3, person 3 picks someone2 from group 3, and so on all for the same team until we have 9 units picked.

Edited July 30, 2012 by CR-S01

[Florete]

Isn't that just "now a unit from one tier down?"

EDIT: Note that I'm not specifically referring to the tier list, but like "standard 2nd choice unit, standard 3rd choice unit, etc."

Edited July 30, 2012 by Madam Red

[Ciarre]

Sorry, I didn't really understand what you were saying at first.

1. Titania

2. Eddie

3. Elincia

4. Jill

5. Oscar - I would say that Oscar > Boyd in this context since I'd guess we're using Nephenee

6. Volug - He can help with the 5 turn of 1-E and with resolve/wrath/pass/halfshift, he can 2-turn 3-13. He can also be deployed to Silver route, which means we don't have to pick a sage or another flier like Tanith or Sigrun. I'm pretty sure you can 5 turn 4-3 with a good flier+Micaiah and someone that can full move in the sand, because I've done it before. I would also rather have Volug over Nailah because they get the same things done, but Volug has more availability and freedom.

7. Marcia - 3 turns 3-9, gets the speedwing in 2-3.

8. Nephenee - I'd say Nephenee for sure because of 2-2. S-striked Nealuchi with Nephenee can 4-turn the map with Mordy smiting Lucia, which is legal.

9. Ilyana/Soren/filler sage - meteoring doors in 4-4 saves a turn or two. With two good combat foot units and a sage + Titania, I think you could even get it down to 5 turns.

Silver: Jill, Micaiah, Volug, Sothe, Leanne

Greil: Ike, Titania, Nephenee, Edward, filler sage, Rafiel

Hawk: Elincia, Oscar, Marcia, Reyson

[Florete]

2. Eddie

Why him over Nolan?

5. Oscar - I would say that Oscar > Boyd in this context since I'd guess we're using Nephenee

The only real problem I have with Oscar is 3-4, but in the end I think I'd still choose him.

6. Volug - He can help with the 5 turn of 1-E and with resolve/wrath/pass/halfshift, he can 2-turn 3-13. He can also be deployed to Silver route, which means we don't have to pick a sage or another flier like Tanith or Sigrun. I'm pretty sure you can 5 turn 4-3 with a good flier+Micaiah and someone that can full move in the sand, because I've done it before. I would also rather have Volug over Nailah because they get the same things done, but Volug has more availability and freedom.

Do you really want Pass in the DB? It's never necessary and Jill can already 2 turn 3-13 (I think she needs the Boots but she should be getting them anyway) with Resolve. Desert use is nice, but I think I still prefer Nailah for part 1 and Endgame superiority, plus more kills for Nolan, Jill, and Micaiah in parts 1 and 3.

8. Nephenee - I'd say Nephenee for sure because of 2-2. S-striked Nealuchi with Nephenee can 4-turn the map with Mordy smiting Lucia, which is legal.

Mordy's more useful without being drafted.

Poor guy.

9. Ilyana/Soren/filler sage - meteoring doors in 4-4 saves a turn or two. With two good combat foot units and a sage + Titania, I think you could even get it down to 5 turns.

I've considered the idea of taking Tormod or Calill, but with the setup of the rest of the team, I can't see either being a better choice. So it comes down to Ilyana or Soren. Since Ilyana can definitely have C Fire/Wind (there's a Blizzard available) by 4-4, I think she'll be the better choice in the end.

Silver: Jill, Micaiah, Volug, Sothe, Leanne

Greil: Ike, Titania, Nephenee, Edward, filler sage, Rafiel

Hawk: Elincia, Oscar, Marcia, Reyson

If Nailah is on the team and the sage still goes Greil, Marcia can go Silver. The only problem is that I can't think of a way to 1 turn 4-5, but since that's only saving 1 turn anyway I can't help but thinking there might be better use for the Rescue staff, especially if we can't get Hammerne.

Edited July 30, 2012 by Madam Red

[Ciarre]

Eddie/Nolan are pretty much interchangeable, imo. Eddie just has 1-4 over Nolan, which is why I listed him.

edit: oh yeah, the Volug thing was me thinking that Jill was going over to the GMs because I forgot about Marcia. This is partly why I have a problem with the whole thing, because the units' roles gets in the way of each other.

Edited July 30, 2012 by CR-S01

[Aere]

Boyd/Ike is a nice support, imo. #TeamReavers

[PKL]

Why him over Nolan?

1-4 is easily 4 turnable with Eddie + Wrath and a Max Crit MT forge. Nolan wont be able to do that and theyre pretty much the same everywhere else. You can get both to 3rd tier by 3-6 so eddie's durability stops being an issue for the most part.

The only real problem I have with Oscar is 3-4, but in the end I think I'd still choose him.

Boyd doesnt have Oscar's move. 3-3 is 6 turnable with both cavaliers and he might even shave turns in 3-P and 3-1 along with Titania.

Do you really want Pass in the DB? It's never necessary and Jill can already 2 turn 3-13 (I think she needs the Boots but she should be getting them anyway) with Resolve. Desert use is nice, but I think I still prefer Nailah for part 1 and Endgame superiority, plus more kills for Nolan, Jill, and Micaiah in parts 1 and 3.

The GMs tend to have Heather's pass unless shes not recruited, which is usually enough to get by. And there isnt many maps where youd want pass in GMs compared to DB anyway. Not to mention, the DB really like their savior/pass sothe carrying miccy in 1-E, which shaves a turn off while a wolf handles the combat.

Mordy's more useful without being drafted.

Yep :(.

Poor guy.

Indeed.

I've considered the idea of taking Tormod or Calill, but with the setup of the rest of the team, I can't see either being a better choice. So it comes down to Ilyana or Soren. Since Ilyana can definitely have C Fire/Wind (there's a Blizzard available) by 4-4, I think she'll be the better choice in the end.

Ilyana still has the spd woes and add mag woes to that. Im not kidding when I think Ilyana is just awful. Her BEXP situation is just pretty bad compared to Soren, who caps mag skl and res on average after 4 levels and can get to 23 spd easily with BEXP after that and get crowned to start owning the game. Ive been able to solo Part 3 with Soren and get the same TC as an oscar drafter. Back when I drafted Ilyana she still had like, 17 spd coming into 3-2 and was far from being able to solo part 3. It was a painful experience.

If Nailah is on the team and the sage still goes Greil, Marcia can go Silver. The only problem is that I can't think of a way to 1 turn 4-5, but since that's only saving 1 turn anyway I can't help but thinking there might be better use for the Rescue staff, especially if we can't get Hammerne.

You can 1 turn 4-5 with just Elincia + a filler Celerity unit.

See quote. As for how 4-1 is 4 turnable, I was the one to discover that one.

You need 3 units, preferably one in the east that can ORKO at 1-2 range but 1 range wolf like nailah can also do it. You just have to get creative with rafiel. A unit that can get the west bishop which is easy to do and that unit must also have 1-2 range for the reinforcements. As long as said unit doubles swordmasters and can ORKO mages and warriors they should be fine. And in the south, you need Ike himself with a Torch and pass or boots.

Let's say the team is:

Ike

Mia

Soren

Rafiel

Turn 1: If Ike has Pass but not boots, he full moves down and uses torch. If Ike has Boots instead he moves down a bit then right then down then left to land in the same place as he would with pass and uses torch. Soren moves to the east. Mia breaks the snag with Adept and Storm Sword (not neccesary to break it but it helps).

EP1: The halberdiers near Mia will finish breaking the snag or if its already broken, they will SD on her, a thunder mage will also kill itself on her and a Falcoknight. 3 Generals or so die on Soren and the southern enemies all die to Ike except for a Warrior that breaks one of the snags.

Turn 2: Ike moves down and kills the bishop (who is still revealed by Torch thanks to Pass/Boots). Soren kills the new General reinforcement near Ena and can get vigored by Rafiel to kill the Horseslayer General. Mia moves towards the Bishop, revealing him.

EP2: More stuff dies to Ike and the others.

Turn 3: Ike moves towards Catalena and uses torch again. He needs 33 spd by this point, which should happen on average if he has paragon. If he has pass, he might need a speedwing and BEXP in tier 2 (which should happen anyways). Soren moves down, Rafiel stays out of range of the new Halberdier reinforcement. Mia kills Bishop.

EP3: Catalena and the 2 armors die to Ike. More enemies than that die too but theyre not that important.

Turn 4: Ike moves and kills the Priest while staying in range of the last stationary General's 1-2 range and in doing so, reveals the northern bishop with Torch. Soren kills that Bishop. Mia moves up to where all the reinforcements will die on her in EP (Storm Sword or Tempest Blade needed)

EP4: Thunder Sage, Swordmaster, a Halberdier and a Warrior all SD on Mia's Tempest Blade. The remaining enemies near Ike (including the Warrior that breaks the snag in Turn 1) all SD to him.

Edited July 30, 2012 by Ghost Marcia Drafter

[Florete]

Boyd doesnt have Oscar's move. 3-3 is 6 turnable with both cavaliers and he might even shave turns in 3-P and 3-1 along with Titania.

I know it originally said 3-3, but I edited it to 3-4 a long time before you made this post and it even says 3-4 in the quote...

The GMs tend to have Heather's pass unless shes not recruited, which is usually enough to get by. And there isnt many maps where youd want pass in GMs compared to DB anyway. Not to mention, the DB really like their savior/pass sothe carrying miccy in 1-E, which shaves a turn off while a wolf handles the combat.

Well, the point is Volug, not Pass, and I have personally watched Jill 2-turn 3-13.

Ilyana still has the spd woes and add mag woes to that. Im not kidding when I think Ilyana is just awful. Her BEXP situation is just pretty bad compared to Soren, who caps mag skl and res on average after 4 levels and can get to 23 spd easily with BEXP after that and get crowned to start owning the game. Ive been able to solo Part 3 with Soren and get the same TC as an oscar drafter. Back when I drafted Ilyana she still had like, 17 spd coming into 3-2 and was far from being able to solo part 3. It was a painful experience.

I think Ilyana is awful in a tier sense, but I can see her being quite useful in a draft setting with that availability in NM, though I'll admit I've never had a chance to use her. Plus there are Wings that I don't see anyone else on this team needing.

Still...are either of them really the one we want for this last slot? I believe the only thing you mentioned that was special was Meteoring the doors in 4-4, but both of those have stationary enemies in front of them anyway, so I don't see how that can really save turns when someone with a ranged weapon can just break the door and watch all the enemies suicide.

If we choose not to go with one of them...I don't know who else to go with.

[charlie_]

I think the enemies will rush out of the door towards your units, meaning nobody has to get that close, and you don't have to divide your units as thinly.

[Florete]

Do the enemies who were standing right in front of the doors move too when the doors open? The ones who were already outside?

[Ciarre]

I don't remember clearly, but I think they're completely stationary and they only attack you if you stand right in front of them like the generals in 3-10. So yeah, meteor might not make that much of a difference but it saves player phases for another unit.

[Florete]

Well, given the recent discussions, my idea of the ideal team has changed to:

1. Edward

2. Jill

3. Nailah

4. Elincia

5. Marcia

6. Nephenee

7. Titania

8. Oscar

9. Undecided

Is there any single chapter that seems lacking? At this point I could see a unit who's only got use for one map being added in (not sure about the idea of bringing Laura for a 1 turn of 3-13, though...). Maybe someone like Mia to help slay Dragons in 3-4 with Ike (since Oscar was chosen over Boyd) and with 3-1 help as a bonus (and everywhere else we'd have her)? Maybe Tibarn/Cain/Giffca for my previously mentioned reasons? Hell, Nasir? Tanith? Shinon? Lyre?

[Zanarkin]

Maybe someone like Mia to help slay Dragons in 3-4 with Ike (since Oscar was chosen over Boyd) and with 3-1 help as a bonus (and everywhere else we'd have her)?

You could still have boyd for sheer fire power (may conflict with BEXP distribution). I had Oscar and boyd once (+rolf so that may have had something to do with it). It wasn't pretty hurt, boyds speed and oscar's strength (which is why i dun like oscar)

If you want a lion, i'd say Cain because of Formshift. Tibarn's 10 move could greatly help in his chapters.

Edited July 30, 2012 by SlayerX

[Ciarre]

I kind of wish meteor could set supplies on fire in 3-3...

Also, I don't think Tibarn really saves turns by himself. Let's just shove Soren or Ilyana in the last spot or something.

[Zanarkin]

CR did you join and i didn't notice it?

Edited July 30, 2012 by SlayerX

[PKL]

@ Slayer- Oscar's str is a non-issue for the most part thanks to the power of BEXP. And I like I said before, a sage is the best pick for the filler spot. But if you guys dont want to believe me, fine. Have fun 2 turning 3-2 with titania then or have fun with other places like 4-4.

[Junkhead]

The GMs tend to have Heather's pass unless shes not recruited, which is usually enough to get by. And there isnt many maps where youd want pass in GMs compared to DB anyway. Not to mention, the DB really like their savior/pass sothe carrying miccy in 1-E, which shaves a turn off while a wolf handles the combat.

It's very clear you've never drafted Heather before (or at least haven't used her to her full potential).

[Zanarkin]

@ Slayer- Oscar's str is a non-issue for the most part thanks to the power of BEXP. And I like I said before, a sage is the best pick for the filler spot. But if you guys dont want to believe me, fine. Have fun 2 turning 3-2 with titania then or have fun with other places like 4-4.

Read my post again, i said it was due to having to share BEXP with 3 units that caused the fuss. Oscar's annoying str issue made me dislike him yes and i know i'm blaming him unfairly for my BEXP distribution but i don't really care.

[Florete]

@ Slayer- Oscar's str is a non-issue for the most part thanks to the power of BEXP. And I like I said before, a sage is the best pick for the filler spot. But if you guys dont want to believe me, fine. Have fun 2 turning 3-2 with titania then or have fun with other places like 4-4.

How is a Sage going to help 2-turn 3-2 when you can't draw the boss in until turn 2 enemy phase? There is no way you're getting a Sage within 10 spaces before then (assuming Meteor is your plan). The only way to 2-turn 3-2 is a ORKO on turn 2 enemy phase with whoever you can get down there (Titania with the Tomahawk in this case). And you already admitted that a Sage probably isn't saving turns in 4-4.

[PKL]

How is a Sage going to help 2-turn 3-2 when you can't draw the boss in until turn 2 enemy phase? There is no way you're getting a Sage within 10 spaces before then (assuming Meteor is your plan). The only way to 2-turn 3-2 is a ORKO on turn 2 enemy phase with whoever you can get down there (Titania with the Tomahawk in this case). And you already admitted that a Sage probably isn't saving turns in 4-4.

Titania ferries the Sage and the sage ORKOs the boss easily with the thunder forge + wrath. In soren's case, he overkills by also having Adept. IVE DONE IT BEFORE so i know what im talking about. Titania wont ever have enough str to ORKO him without an 8% crit. And I never admitted that a sage doesnt cut turns off in 4-4. Heck, I always 7 turn the map without a sage but when I draft Soren, I 6 turn it. Thanks to Blizzard the first door in the west, then opening the sages door up north (they do move) and the rest is just ike rushing and getting the other doors and the generals in front of them. Heck, Meteor also helps deal with the stationary general in the southeast.