Laguz Sues

[Chiki]

Has anyone else thought that the laguz were portrayed as morally perfect who had all sorts of justifications for their actions?

1. The King of Gallia, Caineghis, actually starts a war due to Begnion not answering for their crimes, out of pure morality. It wasn't an issue based on economy or anything.

2. Kilvas has done some incredibly bad things in working for Daein and killing people in Phoenicis, but it was all out of necessity. They worked for Daein to get gold for the sake of their country, and sided with Begnion due to the blood pact.

3. Tibarn is seen as a barbarian by some, but it was done out of anger for beorcs for the Serenes Massacre, so it's justified.

4. Deghinsea got a lot of crap for never doing anything, but it's justified because he was doing it to try to prevent Yune awakening.

Whereas human beings are treated as corrupted, vile creatures. Just look at the senators.

Edited August 10, 2012 by Aeine

[Anouleth]

There are some evil laguz, like the laguz bandits in 1-4, and Sephiran.

You do have a point, that laguz are generally portrayed as being nicer and more wonderful than beorc. There are no evil laguz empires trying to take over the world, or evil laguz scientists performing experiments. They all have extended lifespans, and the ability to sense spirits and auras and shit. Tibarn and Caineghis are portrayed as perfect rulers who command total obedience from their subjects: certainly, there's far less civil war and insurrection among the laguz than there is among the beorc, when you'd actually expect more! What happy coincidence that in a society where the strongest rule, often for decades and centuries with no accountability, all the rulers happen to be competent and caring... Really, when they compare Laguz and Beorc leadership, the Beorc are always portrayed as being inferior, even though basing leadership on inheritance is likely a better strategy than basing it on physical strength.

That being said, I do love Deghinsea. I thought he was really noble in making the sacrifices he did to preserve peace and shit. Tibarn, on the other hand, is treated by much of the fanbase as being really perfect and wonderful, but I hate his violent nature. I don't think he's "cool" at all.

Edited August 10, 2012 by Anouleth

[Chiki]

There are some evil laguz, like the laguz bandits in 1-4, and Sephiran.

You're right about the laguz bandits in 1-4, but I wouldn't call Sephiran evil in the least--he was driven insane from being alive so long and witnessing so many deaths. It's why he was forgiven in the end.

Edited August 10, 2012 by Aeine

[Lord Raven]

I always thought Laguz were generally arrogant and prideful as seen by skrimir throughout much of part 3.

The only reason there aren't these evil Laguz empires or whatever is because they have generally been subdued by beorc anyway... They haven't had much need for science either given how easily their strength lets them get by in life, whereas humans actually do need the science because of their natural strength lacking in comparison to the

[Anouleth]

You're right about the laguz bandits in 1-4, but I wouldn't call Sephiran evil in the least--he was driven insane from being alive so long and witnessing so many deaths. It's why he was forgiven in the end.

Okay that's even Sue-er. "Sephiran isn't evil, he was just driven insane by how evil those filthy humans are!"

[Chiki]

Okay that's even Sue-er. "Sephiran isn't evil, he was just driven insane by how evil those filthy humans are!"

I do think it's a point in favor of Laguz in general being Sues (that there isn't anyone like Izuka or Valtome in the laguz, even among important villains like Sephiran), but I consider Sephiran very human and realistic. I think that anyone could be driven insane by having a life full of horrors. I mean, I can't see the magnificent icon of perfection Ike trying to commit suicide several times.

Edited August 10, 2012 by Aeine

[PKL]

Oh God...now even the laguz are being called sues. Will ppl ever stop using that term?

[Rapier]

Has anyone else thought that the laguz were portrayed as morally perfect who had all sorts of justifications for their actions?

1. The King of Gallia, Caineghis, actually starts a war due to Begnion not answering for their crimes, out of pure morality. It wasn't an issue based on economy or anything.

2. Kilvas has done some incredibly bad things in working for Daein and killing people in Phoenicis, but it was all out of necessity. They worked for Daein to get gold for the sake of their country, and sided with Begnion due to the blood pact.

3. Tibarn is seen as a barbarian by some, but it was done out of anger for beorcs for the Serenes Massacre, so it's justified.

4. Deghinsea got a lot of crap for never doing anything, but it's justified because he was doing it to try to prevent Yune awakening.

Whereas human beings are treated as corrupted, vile creatures. Just look at the senators.

Depends on how you see it.

1. They are the laguz that resent the slavery they had been through the most. So it's understandable that they react worse than the others.

2. Yet it is not morally right. It's a case of "The end justifies the means".

3. Well-intentioned extremist. Haven't you seen any?

4. It's not justified because a lot of shit happens because of him.

They don't look like sues at all.

[Aere]

It's more that the leaders/laguz in your party are sues. The laguz you fight seem to fit the description of bloodthirsty monsters.

[Loki Laufeyson]

and Sephiran.

Hes not evil. Just Knight Templar-ish with a healthy serving of "holy fuck ive lived too long". Hell, people bark at him quite a bit in Endgame about his motives. (Especially Ike.)

[Silith]

Neasala signed a blood contract with the begnion senators to become first in line to succeed the Kilvas throne. How is that not evil?

And even if it was to protect his own people against the blood pact he orders a massive slaughter in Phoenixis when Tibarn is attacking the Central army.

Not to mention the laguz he sold to slavery.

I know he stay alive so he can redeem himself after the game but I would've found it more logicl if Tibarn demanded him to pay for his actions after the petrefied people were turned back to normal.

Tear off his wings, cut hims hamstrings, and make him watch as Leanne goes to sleep in the same bed as Vika.

[Chiki]

Neasala signed a blood contract with the begnion senators to become first in line to succeed the Kilvas throne. How is that not evil?

Naesala didn't sign it, the King before him did, if I recall correctly.

And even if it was to protect his own people against the blood pact he orders a massive slaughter in Phoenixis when Tibarn is attacking the Central army.

Not to mention the laguz he sold to slavery.

Evidence, other than Reyson (which wasn't slavery)?

[Noktra]

The far I know Naesala even said he never wanted to become king after all.

It was always my understanding that (maybe through bloodpact) all other candidates vanished over time and he was the last one left capable of doing the job.

Kilvas is under the pact since a long time ago, to quote Naesala. So I really doubt it was Naesala to sign that thing.

But I have to agree that naesala isn't a nice-guy character. He's more like an... Antihero.

Only doing the right things if it benefits him in some way.

(I love Naesala ^^)

[CrashGordon94]

Tear off his wings, cut hims hamstrings, and make him watch as Leanne goes to sleep in the same bed as Vika.

VikaXLeanne? Well that's a new one...

Anyway, while I can see some of the traits of Laguz in general being Sue traits (lifespan, super strength, sensing various things, etc.) that's nothing new for something that features humans and non-human intelligent humanoids together and they actually have more downsides than a lot of comparable species around and this topic is really stretching it.

[Silith]

Neasala attacked the unprotected Hawks on Begnion's orders to prevent them from incurring the blood contract's curse on him and his own people.

As for the Reyson thing. I find being made apet to just look pretty counts as slavery. Not all slaves in history had to perform harsh labor.

I'm not so sure on the Kilvas blood pact anymore but I would surely keep lovely Leanne away from him. (Especially when there is a cute Raven Girl who wants to try get inside her robes.)

[Chiki]

Neasala attacked the unprotected Hawks on Begnion's orders to prevent them from incurring the blood contract's curse on him and his own people.

As for the Reyson thing. I find being made apet to just look pretty counts as slavery. Not all slaves in history had to perform harsh labor.

I'm not so sure on the Kilvas blood pact anymore but I would surely keep lovely Leanne away from him. (Especially when there is a cute Raven Girl who wants to try get inside her robes.)

Why does that make him evil?

Slavery = working without wage. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slavery

[Silith]

Chattle slavery does not always involve labor.

For example the chinese emperor in old times had many women in his harems. Only a few served him sexually. The rest were there just to show off his power.

It might not be AS cruel as labor slavery but they were still forced to stay and of course without any payment.

[Loki Laufeyson]

Didnt Naesala sell Reyson in order to get some much needed coin? Yeah it was a dastardly thing to do....His plan was actually to sell Reyson to Oliver and then get his coin, and then...to rescue Reyson. Not justifying that, just saiyan.

[Original Alear]

Lagsues

Naesalea selling Reyson to Oliver seems pretty bad. Raiding Phoenicis while the main army was away was also pretty bad. It probably didn't actually help the war effort much, and was probably a laguzitarian disaster. If anything it made Phoenicis more pissed.

There are no evil laguz empires trying to take over the world,

But in the past, apparently the laguz-ruled begnion empire was oppressive towards beorc.

or evil laguz scientists performing experiments.

Laguz are base, stupid and barbaric creatures, there's no such thing as a Laguz scientist.

Slavery = working without wage. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slavery

Even if that was correct, all it does is mean he sold Reyson into a lifetime of imprisonment.

For example the chinese emperor in old times had many women in his harems. Only a few served him sexually. The rest were there just to show off his power.

It might be worth saying those courtesans would have tasks besides sex, though. For instance, Wu Zetian was assigned work in the imperial library IIRC.

Edited August 15, 2012 by L1049