Etrian Odyssey Mafia - Game Over

[Shinori]

I did quote that, thanks Cam. Now what are your actual thoughts on him? Why do you have a 'bad feeling' about him?

[CT075]

i'm not sure if you're deliberately being dense or just enjoy tunneling

i find helios scummy for being a bit fluffy, just like everyone else said

that being said i don't find him to be doing it quite as badly because he looks like he's trying to scumhunt

[Shinori]

How am I tunneling you of all people cam? I just recently added you to my scum list and asked you a few questions so I could get your thoughts on the situation in more detail because you didn't specifically say why you had a bad feeling for Helios.

Seriously how is mentioning you in a very minute amount of posts with at most like 3-5 questions across all of them, tunneling?

For me to not tunnel am I REQUIRED to vote someone I don't see as scum? Is that the requirement?

[Aere]

Scorri. I'll ask again. Give us your thoughts on people who are not Shinori.

[Iris]

Hi, sorry for not posting last night, I had a massive headache, but I'm feeling slightly better right now, so give me a few.

[Iris]

Was in for an unpleasant surprise since I didn't check out the OP before reading. Not feeling my mafia playing drive as much after I saw the modkill. :/ Wrapping this up quickly since I have a few surprise doctor's appointments.

Who am I tunneling on Iris?

I was actually referring to you v. me ED1, there, not Helios. Also, kind of have to echo that you need to rework your explanations so they're not giant walls of text and to be more organized; it's easier on the eyes. I actually don't get (see?) the connection of Helios/scorri/Cam, though the latter two irk me in their own way [i forgot scorri was in the game until I saw her post, Cam's indifference].

@Core:

Also, I don't believe I've mentioned anybody as seeming townish, you're referring to Helios there, I guess.

Helios' other posts are ehh, not enough to make me suspicious when they stand alone. I wouldn't oppose a Helios lynch but I'm not going to pursue it.

While not a complete 360, still pretty strange. Why did you think Helios was seeming townish in the first place?

My vote's still on Helios since I still think he's scummy, he's only posted once, since, would like him to say more.

[scorri]

Aere: Sorry, I was sorta skimming before and missed that post. I'm on vacation with my family which means a lot of the time when I appear to be here I'm not actually at my computer, I just left the tab open. However, I'm currently rereading and will post stuff as I go.

[scorri]

Ok, so this started out as me trying to quickly summarize stuff so I could get my thoughts organized, turned into mass summary. There's more of my own thoughts at the bottom, I'm not posting this to seem like I'm contributing, I'm posting it cause it's helpful to me and might be helpful to others to.

[spoiler=1st page] RVS crap, I vote Cam in here with the reasoning that he voted for someone with a vote already on them. Didn't really mean much by it, it was just an RVS reasoning. He says he did so because he wasn't paying enough attention to care. I can understand that, so while I left my vote on there I didn't really see much scum or town there.

[spoiler=2nd page] Iris then votes for Cam for not caring. I understand this move, she's trying to get him to start doing something other than just sit there. I don't think there was anything wrong with it. However, Shinori then votes Iris because he thinks her RVS vote wasn't helpful? I don't really understand this move. He's saying that her RVS vote was useless because it was RVS but then puts a RVS vote on her. I dunno. Don't get it. Shinori, Iris and Cam proceed to debate about caring and RVS. Cam admits to being unhelpful, but eh. I'm fairly certain he's town that just doesn't care because it's RVS and RVS is kinda stupid. Cam and Shinori both say that visiting them would be a not smart idea. A wild Rapier appears and votes Shinori and points out that saying Iris's vote is useless is a waste of time and that all votes help us get info. Core says he thinks Shinori is just being over reactive and not scummy.

[spoiler=3rd page] Cam says don't target me, Elie (town) votes him for being unspecific, Shinori still thinks Iris's vote was not useful for getting information even though as a result of the vote we've had lots of interactions between people, role hinting happens, i get frustrated but don't explain well what my thoughts are (role hinting is bad, if there's a role that will hurt the town just come right out and say it as opposed to hinting about stuff), some discussion about that, Paper votes Elie (town) for an easy out vote, Aere votes Iris for voting Cam when Cam already had votes on him but doesn't look at how many votes are actually on him, Rein calls him out for doing the same thing that he was voting Iris for

[spoiler=4th page] More stuff about role hinting, Rapier drops a vote on Elie (town) for role fishing, Iris explains her vote a little more and then unvotes, Aere unvotes and claims to have just been too lazy to read the thread, but I'm not liking that too much. If he's voting someone for voting someone that has multiple votes on them he should make sure of the exact number, Core then says he's suspicious of Aere because of his lack of real reason for voting Iris, some more people (Paper and Rein) state their not sure of Aere (for his vote and his reasons for voting respectively) Rein also states he finds Cam suspcious, Paper calls rein out for not voting for someone he finds suspicious

[spoiler=5th page] Helios talks about some people and his reads on them, calls them all town, eclipse appears, calls some people out on playing in not the best fashion and then votes helios for being fluffy, Cam confirms he doesn't give right now and also confirms he has a granny like ability, Core says he could post more but that he'd be echoing if he did, eclipse claims that's not a good excuse to not say stuff (i kinda agree with this), paper gets suspicious of Helios for list posting, Elie(town) claims he thinks Core and/or Helios is scummy due to lack of real content, Elie(town) talks some more about Cam's claim, eclipse says he should drop it so it gets dropped, elie pokes at me, I don't have many reads at this point, shinori asks why i think he's scummy and votes helios for basically the same exact reason as eclipse (eclipse voted for lack of posts and a read post with basically no info in it, shinori votes for "same reasons as eclipse, plus a list post that said everyone was town. not quite sure how that's not echoing exactly what eclipse said but...)

[spoiler=6th page] Rein votes Cam because lack of effort, bad claim, and using not caring as an excuse, Helios claims eclipse did basically the same thing he did, then thinks elie(town) and shinori jumped on his bandwagon, thinks cam is town even though his claim was done poorly, wants to hear more from rein, votes for elie(town) as one of his two scum reads, shinori explains his vote on helios is because of a list post with no scum reads in it, Core thinks paper is doing just enough to not seem scummy, thinks rein's reasoning against cam is ok but doesn't agree with it, elie(town) reiterates he think cam is town gives some more reads on townish people, asks for some more opinions from people, Core claims none of his feelings were strong enough to pursue (it's D1... you need to pursue something), aere thinks cam is town playing poorly, paper votes helios claiming that he's making posts to make the people who suspect him look bad, Iris then jumps on the helios wagon for having posts that are full of hot air and not much else and thinks shinori is tunneling (on herself i believe), rein gives some opinions and says he wouldn't be opposed to the helios wagon, i finally stick with my gut and put a vote on shinori for posts that to me don't seem to have a lot of content that is helpful to the town but rather full of stuff that makes it seem like he's contributing and some echo voting as well as just general gut feeling

[spoiler=7th page] Rapier doesn't like Rein's reasoning for voting Cam doesn't like Core's lack of vote and also doesn't think Rein is actually scumhunting, Helios realizes Elie(town) wasn't voting him and so he unvotes ( :/ I don't like this bit. it makes it seem like he was suspicious of elie simply for voting him) goes on to explain some stuff, claims he was changing his opinion on shinori quickly but with reasons for his change of opinion (though shinori was being opportunistic with his vote jump), Rein and Rapier talk about Rein's reasonings for being suspicious of Aere, Rapier misunderstood the reasoning which Rein then explained, and calls Rapier out for the same thing he called Aere out on (making things up to back up their suspicion of someone instead of reading the posts well), Core doesn't like Helios but not strongly enough to pursue that lynch calls out Elie(town) for tunneling inactives, thinks Iris's vote on Helios is opportunistic and not well thought out, Paper gives some stuff he's thinking about, Shinori claims he's not echoing, Aere claims Rein should have voted him if he found him suspicious then says he's not feeling the helios wagon and thinks Core is being a little hypocritical, Shinori doesn't like Iris's posts and says if Helios flips town Iris will be under suspicion as well as Eclipse because Iris seemed to know how Helios would flip and Eclipse because... why?

[spoiler=8th page] Rein says the reason he never voted Aere was because he never viewed him as the most suspicious and that he's feeling the helios wagon more and more, Cam says he'll be not around much due to travel but that he thinks Rein is tunneling, then claims i'm trying to contribute without really contributing (really i just wasn't contributing period due to lack of time spent here) and that helios seems suspicious for reasons that everyone else says and votes me, Shinori and I then start a nice little debate back and forth about my reasons for voting him plus some more talk about roles (whee... ok yeah some of that was my fault this time. sorry guys.) eclipse doesn't like the way helios is reacting to the votes so she keeps her vote there

[spoiler=9th page] More debate between me and shinori about why i find him scummy (lack of real content in posts, plus weird role claim, plus gut feelings), Paper finds eclipse to be kinda fluffy so far, more talk about role, Aere doesn't like my posts and asks about my other scum reads (oops didn't respond to that :/ ), more debate, eclipse explains better why she was upset at Paper for misrepresenting her and is annoyed with rein for typing but not actually submitting any posts, more talk of bread crumbing, i better explain my feelings about shinori as well as my feelings on role claiming stuff

[spoiler =10th page] Game pause, elie(town) modkilled. Shinori then goes to explain some of his reasoning and tries to help some of my suspicion go away. He claims he's not sure how he's not been helping town (I dunno, but personally i find that talking a lot about rvs which his comments led to is just generally unhelpful cause it leads town to being stuck in that for longer, and i feel like he didn't give any new reason for the helios vote. but then again, neither did many people, so i dunno. ugh i'm not sure about this feel anymore), shinori then asks about cam's vote on me and mine/helios's lack of interaction, tries to claim we're all scum buddies, eclipse doesn't like the fact that i'm relying partially on gut (sorry it's how i play :/) but thinks at least most of my reasoning on shinori is sound, and thinks shinori is being weird with his breadcrumb and she views his more recent posts as attempts to draw attention away from himself, shinori says once again my interactions with cam/helios seem to look like i'm trying to avoid having any connection with them (shinori there's a difference between an outright claim "I am harmful to town and this is why, don't visit me" and a claim that visiting you will be unhelpful. one makes it clear and the other just seems to be trying to get people to avoid you without really making anything clear or helpful), claims me and cam and helios are all scum, eclipse tells him his logic is faulty and has lots of assumptions and that he should look elsewhere too, shinori thinks i need to mention helios (yeah i probably should have, but honestly besides responses to shinori i haven't posted a ton. oops :/ ) shinori calls out cam some more, cam responds by saying he did talk about helios

[spoiler=11th page] cam and shinori talk about cam's feelings on helios, aere asks my feelings again, iris reappears (hope you're feeling better :( finds core's actions a little weird, still wants to hear more from helios

Ok, so my thoughts. Here we go. I still think Shinori just seems off. His earlier posts felt like they were trying to have discussion that wasn't helpful to town but still made it seem like he was contributing, and then his later posts have either been debating with me about my feelings for him and then trying to shift attention off of himself by throwing suspicion on me, Cam, and Helios. Still a scum read here. Eclipse seems to be townish to me,she seems generally helpful with discussion towards town, Paper, I'm getting a similar feel from him as in MoMM and he seems to be doing his best to help the town. Core... hasn't been around a ton and then when he has been hasn't really been contributing that much it seems. Didn't put a vote for the longest time, finally put a vote on Elie(town), still generally seems to not be very helpful. Scumish read here. Rapier, Aere, and Iris are all neutralish with Iris leaning slightly more towards town. Rein seems townish to me but I could also see a scum trying to blend in as town. I dunno, I find him hard to read cause of lack of games played with him I think (Homestuck doesn't count). Cam I think is just poorly playing town. I think his claim was poorly made, but I think in the end it should have been made around when he made it. He's been apathetic at the start and is now traveling. No sure judgement, that will have to wait til he gets back and I see some less apathetic playing, but right now I'd lean more townish on him.

And finally Helios. Hi Helios. You're play has been... interesting. I don't like it so far. I agree with people that at first you were kinda posting empty posts, but then people start to become suspicious of you. So you decide to develop some reads. You vote Elie(town) but then when you find out he didn't vote for you, you unvote him. Was the only reason you voted him cause he voted for you? Because yes, then I would find that as an OMGUS. If it wasn't the only reason, why'd you unvote him? You claim you find people suspicious for jumping on you. So you unvoted Elie because he didn't in fact jump on your wagon. But he did find you suspicious. So he kind of did jump on your wagon, just not with as much force as some other people. I feel like you're doing a similar thing to what Shinori seems to be doing in that you're trying to shift focus off of yourself by making other people look bad. You're probably my second strongest scum read behind Shinori. Though, I wouldn't be surprised if only one of Shinori and Helios was scum, I'm pretty sure at least one of them is in fact scum.

[scorri]

*grumble* Of course, I messed up the formatting on one of them. No way I could do it correctly.

[Deliriyum]

@Core:

While not a complete 360, still pretty strange. Why did you think Helios was seeming townish in the first place?

I never thought he was townish, you're misinterpreting it. I meant that Elieson must've been referring to Helios with one of his accusations.

Oh, and ##Unvote

Assuming we're split 8/3, worst case scenario would leave us at Lylo on D3. Say we NL today, that makes D3 mylo under the same conditions. Should we consider NLing? I know how passionately people oppose NLs but I"m just throwing it out there as an option.

Also this doesn't account for any extra unexpected town deaths.

[Helios]

##Vote Shinori

I don't think I can keep giving him the benefit of the doubt and over time he's been looking scummier and scummier to me. The argument with Iris was a product of being aggressive, which is understandable. Then what started to irk me was the vote he placed on me right after Eclipse with no reasoning other than echoing hers (which yes, you stated, doesn't make it look any worse though). Looked extremely opportunistic. Speaking of opportunistic, his main reads for most of the game have been Cam and I, who have been the biggest scumspects so far. Not only that but he's been recycling earlier points over and over. It seems like now that he's voted for me he's trying to create more points for proving me scum, like my "Hi Scorri" post which HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH ANYTHING. If someone like Bizz did something like that no one would haveou even thought twice about it. Some of his points against not only me but others feel way too forced and it feels like he's scum trying to drive a quick mislynch to take the opportunity one of my posts created. Also just because I haven't mentioned scorri means she's scum? What kind of point is that? I don't think I've mentioned Rein either, maybe he's scum too? And now Cam looks scummier because he hasn't had something bad to say about me? So is anyone who doesn't find me scummy scum? What? You're trying to build a skyscraper but your base is nothing but straws man.

Though I can't really defend my post that caused all this commotion, I do find it pretty funny that in everyone's scumreads (besides Cam's behavior, which has been deemed obvious) no one ever mentions posts earlier in the game, yet blames me for finding others town. Yeah I realize what I should have done now, but it's still kinda funny how things have worked out.

@Scorri: Well one of the points I was making against him was that he looked scummy for jumping on me with no reasoning besides Eclipse's, but since I misread the "finger of suspicion" as a vote I felt embarrassed and took the vote off. In retrospect I probably should have kept it on though because I forgot I made a few other points on him but ehh I've made a few mistakes already. Also, just want to clear this up, I'm not trying to make others look bad for voting me, it's the way they've been voting (if they actually have an argument or it's an opportunistic jump to mislynch).

Again, my view on Cam is that though I find him scummy (like everyone else here), he reminds me of Haze in CPM who looked scummy but claimed town PGO and flipped town. In fact I think the cause of Cam's behavior is that since he's so confident he's town and no one will threaten his role he doesn't feel much of a need to put a ton of effort in the game. Cam, what are your thoughts on Shinori? You've been fending off his attacks but I don't think you've actually said what you thought about him.

Also after Elieson's flip I remembered Core voting for him. What are everyone's thoughts on Core now after the flip?

[scorri]

Mmmm careful with those types of questions. That's basically what Shinori did that eclipse said made it seem like he was trying to get attention off of him with and people are already suspicious enough of you as it is. Just saying. As for Core, like I said in my massive text dump, I'm leaning scumish right now.

[Deliriyum]

Of the two targets in question, Shinori and Helios, I would prefer a Helios lynch.

He was totally spineless with Elieson...He thought Elieson voted him, and he came up with some reasons to vote for Elieson. When he realized Elieson didn't vote for him, he forgot those reasons and unvoted? This doesn't add up to me. It doesn't seem like he's trying to find mafia and it seems like he is trying to please Elieson when he apologizes and unvotes.

Helios is at L-2 now so...I'll vote later in the phase, I don't really want this phase to end early if somebody decides to hammer.

[Aere]

I don't like this.

##Vote Shinori

I don't think I can keep giving him the benefit of the doubt and over time he's been looking scummier and scummier to me. The argument with Iris was a product of being aggressive, which is understandable. Then what started to irk me was the vote he placed on me right after Eclipse with no reasoning other than echoing hers (which yes, you stated, doesn't make it look any worse though). Looked extremely opportunistic. Speaking of opportunistic, his main reads for most of the game have been Cam and I, who have been the biggest scumspects so far. Not only that but he's been recycling earlier points over and over. It seems like now that he's voted for me he's trying to create more points for proving me scum, like my "Hi Scorri" post which HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH ANYTHING. If someone like Bizz did something like that no one would have even thought twice about it. Some of his points against not only me but others feel way too forced and it feels like he's scum trying to drive a quick mislynch to take the opportunity one of my posts created. Also just because I haven't mentioned scorri means she's scum? What kind of point is that? I don't think I've mentioned Rein either, maybe he's scum too? And now Cam looks scummier because he hasn't had something bad to say about me? So is anyone who doesn't find me scummy scum? What? You're trying to build a skyscraper but your base is nothing but straws man.

Shinori's reads were kind of the reason Cam and you were suspects, iirc. You seem very defensive in this paragraph, especially the 6 questions at the end. You also started to go into ad hominem when you mentioned Bizz.

Though I can't really defend my post that caused all this commotion, I do find it pretty funny that in everyone's scumreads (besides Cam's behavior, which has been deemed obvious) no one ever mentions posts earlier in the game, yet blames me for finding others town. Yeah I realize what I should have done now, but it's still kinda funny how things have worked out.

Why can't you defend them?

@Scorri: Well one of the points I was making against him was that he looked scummy for jumping on me with no reasoning besides Eclipse's, but since I misread the "finger of suspicion" as a vote I felt embarrassed and took the vote off. In retrospect I probably should have kept it on though because I forgot I made a few other points on him but ehh I've made a few mistakes already. Also, just want to clear this up, I'm not trying to make others look bad for voting me, it's the way they've been voting (if they actually have an argument or it's an opportunistic jump to mislynch).

Why wouldn't you mention your mistake with the FoS before? You're changing your reasons.

Again, my view on Cam is that though I find him scummy (like everyone else here), he reminds me of Haze in CPM who looked scummy but claimed town PGO and flipped town. In fact I think the cause of Cam's behavior is that since he's so confident he's town and no one will threaten his role he doesn't feel much of a need to put a ton of effort in the game. Cam, what are your thoughts on Shinori? You've been fending off his attacks but I don't think you've actually said what you thought about him.

Also after Elieson's flip I remembered Core voting for him. What are everyone's thoughts on Core now after the flip?

Pretty much exactly what scorri said in her post. Isn't that opportunistic, to use somebody else's scumreads?

[Paperblade]

I'm starting to feel like most of the people attacking Helios are being opportunistic. Several people are attacking him for being mafia without actually voting him or pushing him to claim. Discussion is getting stagnant, which is what the mafia wants.

So I am going to ##Unvote, ##Vote Shinori

I believe that one of Shinori and Cam is mafia because we would not have two roles that are effectively not targetable. I would rather lynch Shinori for a couple reasons:

And yes it does fall flat on it's face if either of them flip town, but how are we to know that unless we lynch one of them. Running with no info means we have to go with what we have and these are all connections between three specific players that connect well. The only reason I mentioned the whole fact specifically with them not mentioning each other is because it's a triangle of players that aren't doing it. It's not like you not mentioning one person. It's three people that aren't mentioning each other at all for the most part.

I find this extremely suspect. He had spent several of his last few posts building up an argument about a scorri/Helios scumteam. It seems to me that he knows at least one is town and is trying to setup a lynch on them (either because if one flips mafia he can say "see this connection was real" and get a townie mislynch or just get a free townie mislynch).

I also don't like the way he claimed. He was very vague and doesn't seem to think much of Cam's role being too similar, which makes me think it was a poorly thought out fakeclaim to try to avoid night actions.

Also I totally forgot Iris was even playing. Please post more actual content since the only thing I can get from your posts is "Helios is scummy and Core might be too."

[Grace]

updated the last votals with a small addendum (ie: I missed something); but new votals are soon

[Shinori]

Okay fine whatever I don't wanna claim day 1 cause I'm trying to get out of it. Trying specifically hard to not claim day 1.

I am a 2-shot commuter. Or whatever that role is. On two nights I can use it and become immune to mafia kills and all other abilities that target me. I planned on using this tonight which is why I said don't target me because it wouldn't be beneficial. I could just not use it but I want to.

I also have one other ability that I will not be revealing and cannot be used until night 2. I won't be saying though at all so if you still that is suspicious then lynch me.

[Grace]

Votals:

Iris (0): Paperblade, Shinori, Aere

Shinori (3): Helios, Rapier, scorri, Helios, Paperblade

Aere (0): Elieson, CT075

Rapier (0): Aere

Delirium (0): Strider, Elieson

Strider (0): Iris

CT075 (1): scorri, Iris, Elieson, Strider

Elieson (0): Paperblade, Rapier, Helios, Delirium

Strider (0): Paperblade

Helios (3): eclipse, Shinori, Paperblade, Iris

scorri (1): CT075

Not voting: Aere, Rapier, Delirium

Voting History:

Paperblade: Iris > Elieson > Strider > Helios > Shinori

Helios: Shinori > Unvote > Elieson > Unvote > Shinori

Elieson: Aere > CT075 > Core

Aere: Rapier > Iris > Unvote

CT075: Aere > Unvote > scorri

Strider: Delirium > Unvote > CT075

Iris: Strider > CT075 > Unvote > Helios

Shinori: Iris > Helios

Rapier: Shinori > Elieson > ForcedUnvote

scorri: CT075 > Unvote > Shinori

Delirium: Elieson > ForcedUnvote

eclipse: Helios

With 11 alive, it takes 6 to lynch outright. There are 28 hours 15 minutes left in the day.

also, small clarity point on rule 12 was added (one third of votes rounded down are required to actually lynch someone) (in this case, you need 3 votes on someone to lynch them.)

Edited August 14, 2012 by Manix

[Deliriyum]

I really fill like people are trying to dig about my role and you aren't gonna get anything. Cause I'm not gonna say anything.

Way to stick by your guns, Shinori.

I think this claim is quite suspect(Shinori doesn't even have the most votes, I think) but the role is plausible.

[Shinori]

I'm tied with the most votes at the moment core. Both me and Helios are at L-3 and everyone is yelling at me for how I said don't target me so I'm telling why I said don't target me. If you want I could allow people to target me tonight and possibly wind up dead.

I was told to think from a logical point of view and I did I looked at it logically and arrived at the fact that I feel Cam, helios, and Scorri are currently the most scummy players in the game. Then I was yelled at for my way of thinking, called dense, accused of tunneling, was told my logic mad Eclipse's head hurt, so I assume she is just saying it's bad just not in such a blunt way, excuse me trying to post my thoughts on my three scum reads. So forgive me for being frankly annoyed and pissed off that because cam said he was granny variant he get's town cred and people look at me because I chose to not claim my full fucking role and call me scum. Granny/PGO is not always town. Myself/Kaoz played a scum PGO in kamen rider mafia if you don't remember.

[Grace]

A feeling of tension is in the air after the transgression of Halsh. His body still lay on the ground in the Plaza, because no one wanted to deal with it. It was not pretty, let's be fair.

"Okay Tiara, I have to go now to deal with official business, I should be back around the end of the day." Quinn said. “Just keep yourself under control, and don’t go completely crazy.”

“Yeah, whatever.” Tiara said snarkily.

Under the watchful eye of Tiara, discussions continued. Now that everyone had seen what she was capable of, no one really wanted to take any chances. The day drags on, with still another few hours left until nightfall.

More midphase flavor because I can. Also, you still have 25 hours 15 minutes left in the phase (ie: don't pay attention to what the flavor says in terms of time)

[Rapier]

Wow, so much stuff happened and I missed a lot. I'll try to be more active from now on, even through I have to study for exams. First, I'll begin with a reread through the topic (which I'm doing right now), writing my reads and opinions along the way.

scorri

Her start wasn't that notable, but I really liked that post:

Hey guys, hey guys. I have this awesome idea where we *don't* all start dropping hints or claiming D1. I've heard that it turns out to be really helpful for the town when the mafia doesn't have all of our roles by then end of D2. But you know. Maybe not.

While Paper told Cam to claim Miller if he is one and Elie was rolefishing (I know he got modkilled), she was pretty much the first and only one to object to that. Getting town reads from this.

And then, when Paper told her he'd rather have him roleclaim than have a PGO/Nexus being targetted, she gave him a nice answer too.

*sigh* There's a difference between Cam saying "hey guys, don't target me, it's a bad idea" and him saying that doc doesn't work on him, inspect is a bad idea too, that he has a secondary ability as well, and then role fishing at elie.

My problem with her is: She didn't do much after that. At least she gave an excuse, and is trying to get back to the game. Yet I feel like she has been wasting too much time defending herself and questioning Shinori without really saying anything about anyone else.

Paper

Paper's first notable post (to me) looked like he was rolefishing in such a way that he could do it slightly and avoid looking bad, since Elie did pretty much the job.

Are you claiming miller?

or what

Yeah it'd be so much better if people ran into a nexus or PGO or whatever the fuck Cam is

My problem with this is: You don't need to have him roleclaim to you in order to know if Cam is PGO or not. So the whole point of "Hey I don't want people visiting a PGO so I'm asking what his role is" doesn't work here. It leans more to a scummy side than to a townish side.

Other than that, he has been playing more passively than active. That isn't a bad thing, however. Most of the other things he said have credit, so I'm ok with him.

Core

Eclipse hasn't been online yet...just saying.

I'm slightly weary of Aere for "missing" something so early in the game. Not just that he missed it, that he made it up to help back up his vote, and then asked for reasoning that was already explained. Rather a waste of time, really.

Lots of null elsewhere, though.

This post seems sheepish to me. Paper's post had this exact logic agaisnt Aere.

His other posts have little content (in my opinion), and most of the time he comments about things people are saying rather than come with anything. I played with scum!Core twice, so I'm more alert to these slips. Still, I got null reads, leaning toward scum.

tl;dr version:

scorri: Town

Paper: Slightly Town

Core: Neutral, leaning Scum

Clipsey: Being Clipsey. Nothing much to add. Town

Iris: Null reads, she's been that inactive. >:

Cam: Town

Shinori: Neutral, leaning both town and scum sides. I really don't know.

Helios: Too much fluff. Neutral, leaning scum.

...

I'll continue this later. I'm sleepy, and I don't want to place a vote without a good argument. For now, I'm trying to decide if Shinori is Town wasting our time with more defenses than contributions or if he's Scum trying to justify himself while wasting our time purposedly. Also, I don't like his logic either. Helios looks slightly worse than him because of his fluffs, though.

[Helios]

Just wanted to quickly note since I don't have time right now that I won't be around for a while for personal reasons. Should be back tomorrow though so no worries.

[scorri]

Bluuuuuuhhh. I'm now doubting my Shinori read, and am worried he might just be town who's playing in a way that just rubbed me the wrong way. The emotion that he's displaying now is similar to what I've seen before from him when he's town and feels like people aren't believing him. Ugh. Will think about this, but am feeling the Shinori lynch slightly less.

[eclipse]

I'm tired, and don't wanna give lessons. ;/

Wall of Shinori - This is how you conclude it:

All-in-all, I really feel that all three of the above players are scum, hardly any interactions with each other, distancing between scorri/cam, mostly all 3 said they thought I was scummy, which is whatever, but specifically Scorri and her saying that Cam claiming made him more townie than me stood out to me. I highly feel this is where our pressure should be at at the moment.

Read the first part of the first sentence - it seems like you've already made up your mind. This attitude isn't helpful, because you're more likely to interpret things that should rightfully be null tells into scumtells.

Next, logic. Here's some things to mull over, and the reason why I didn't like that wall:

1. scorri - The only point I kinda agree with is the fact that she's only mentioned Helios in terms of wagon. However, if that is your logic, you are tunneling the wrong person. I agree with scorri that hinting at your role, now that I know it, was misguided and unnecessary. In Cam's case, his claimed role screws with balance, and that's bad for the town. Yours. . .not so much. scorri poked at Cam, Cam responded, and Helios is being unhelpful. That doesn't say much, IMO.

2. Cam - You are trying to read into apathy. I don't care for apathy, but it's not the first thing that I lynch. PGO of the scum variety isn't out of the question, but neither is scum lightningrod (hello SFMM2). In other words, I'm glad you're willing to be vocal on this, but can you move elsewhere (like Rein)?

3. Helios - Has a damn point against you. Your first vote can be seen that way, so own up to that. You might have had a stronger case if you weren't screaming to get three people lynched at once.

tl;dr - Stop tunneling; that's not helping your case

I'm somewhat inclined to believe Helios' reasoning, and then this:

Also after Elieson's flip I remembered Core voting for him. What are everyone's thoughts on Core now after the flip?

Shinori's logic is terrible, but terrible in a consistent way. The one post you made since this one was going after Shinori, saying something TO scorri, then that last little question which feels like the mother of all distraction tactics. However, Paper has a good point that there's far too many people riding on my coattails.

Now, on to more pressing things. . .I am full agreement with Core about this:

Of the two targets in question, Shinori and Helios, I would prefer a Helios lynch.

but I also feel that I should give better opinions on other people besides those I've already mentioned to death.

and kinda disagree with Paperblade about this:

I believe that one of Shinori and Cam is mafia because we would not have two roles that are effectively not targetable.

I can see the argument if it's two watchers or something like that, but I think it's hasty to attempt to drive a lynch on Shinori/Cam based on role at this point. Our only flip is a modkill.

Next on my list of terrible posters are Rapier and scorri's recent posts. scorri has her earlier convos with Cam and her fighting off Shinori (who she's starting to waffle on), so she doesn't look quite as bad as the list post with no mention of Rein and Aere. Still not very happy with Helios, but at least he's responding, albeit poorly.

##Unvote

##Vote: Rapier