Ana's Art Returns!

[shadowofchaos]

It's not sugarcoating the truth, but it isn't being rude either.

I know I'm asking to get snapped at for this, but if I were to quote you on your responses throughout this entire thread, that's exactly what you've been asking everyone to do since your view of criteria for "valid criticism" requires that they praise your work in some form BEFORE anything is said. Not to mention even if that were met, anything too harsh you just dismiss.

"You're not going to improve".

Etiquette:

• Be polite and mature when posting comments and/or critical critiques. Bashing and/or outright rude behavior is not allowed.
• Artists, please be aware that if you post artwork, sprites or graphics in this forum, they are on display and up for critique. Please be respectful of those who have taken their time to offer you suggestions and tips. If you have a problem excepting commentary from others in a mature fashion, or do not want critique, please consider posting your art elsewhere.
• Put some thought into your replies before responding to a posted artwork-- mention what you like or don't like about the piece and offer up some suggestions for improvement. Posts like "Wow! Great!" or "Hmm... Could be better..." are pointless and add virtually no value to the discussion or the artwork in question. Think before you post.

Since they certainly gave you legitimate feedback saying what exactly you can fix in your art and not simply "you suck, so you should feel bad and quit altogether". No, they didn't do that. So therefore you should probably take point number 2 to heart. You LITERALLY jump for joy when someone posts something like point number 3... and I don't see any reactions like that from you whenever someone posts something negative about your art.

The latter is LITERALLY the thing you should be looking for.

Art is equatable to fighting games. You are going to be BELOW EVERYONE ELSE'S SKILL LEVEL and you will STAY that way until suck it up and learn to take some hits.

I will refrain from derailing this thread any further... because as you have seen, this entire thing on your view of criticism has been repeated over and over... and it will keep repeating until you change your view about it.

Edited September 9, 2013 by shadowofchaos

[Anacybele]

I know I'm asking to get snapped at for this, but if I were to quote you on your responses throughout this entire thread, that's exactly what you've been asking everyone to do since your view of criteria for "valid criticism" requires that they praise your work in some form BEFORE anything is said. Not to mention even if that were met, anything too harsh you just dismiss.

Show me where I ever said or implied that my view of criteria for valid criticism requires that I be praised. I don't remember doing so at all. But if I did, I must've either used bad wording or was simply incorrect and I later realized the error I made. Because I do not require praise.

Even though I never get it from anyone here while everyone else is praised to death. I'm still being kind and asking for more critique instead. So I feel more deserving whenever I do finally get praise.

Also, if anyone else has any problems, please PM me. I already feel like nobody will ever critique me again now because they think I'll just shove it back in their face when that is not what I want to do at all. And I don't want a dramafest in my thread.

Edited September 9, 2013 by Anacybele

[Anacybele]

Now, to actually look at what I WILL listen to here. Because some of this is actually acceptable.

the actual muscles aren't bad. well on the arms at least. the abs look rather sloppy in my opinion. other than that its stranded and all.

Well, he's wearing a shirt, you shouldn't see them defined completely, I thought. But if I should define them more, I will.

my biggest complaint's are that A] its rather boring what with Frederick there right in the middle and his pose lacks life to it. try to liven up the background a little and give his pose more of an actual posture and not just a lifeless model you add cloths too.

I actually wasn't intending to give this a background other than the mat and the Wii Fit board. xP

How do I make the pose better though? I wanted it to be simple here and make Frederick look like he's instructing someone. As shown, he's meant to be raising a finger (like Henry does in his Awakening portrait) and talking while standing on the Wii Fit board in preparation to demonstrate an exercise.

B] whats with the bun thing on his head? oh and don't rely totally on a computer to help correct mistakes as it helps to be able to know how to do this sort of thing on your own.

I already explained what it is, but I do realize it looks silly as it is now. I just can't seem to figure out how to draw those loopy hair strands from the front. xP

C] a problem i may have personally with your art but i feel it lacks any sort of style of its own and it all feels so lifeless and boring. nothing really defines your work and i would be hard pressed to even notice it amongst a collection of other pieces of work. its not the worst Ive seen but its not art i would actually go out of my way to find.

I don't actually have a style of my own, you're right. Well, I do have a unique chibi style, but chibis aren't all I draw, obviously (and I haven't drawn one in ages either lol). I've tried to find one, but whenever I do use a different style that I didn't copy, it always ends up looking like someone else's anyway. So I guess I kind of gave up and stuck with using already existing styles.

also id like to ask you to give alternative coloring styles a shot like ink, pencil crayon, paint or even water color

If you're saying to just give up digital art, I'm not doing that. I'll find coloring tutorials and such I can use to improve my work on Photoshop. I don't have any ink, paint, or colored pencils. I do have crayons and pastels, but I've always been terrible with the former and I hate using the latter (so messy). My coloring with crayons only goes as far as coloring book pages. xP But I have a strange love for crayons, so I'll consider using them in real art.

Edited September 9, 2013 by Anacybele

[Anacybele]

I've finished making some changes. Though not a lot, because I still don't know what to do with the pose. I guess it'll just have to stay as is. xP

Abs are more defined, got rid of the smile, I messed with the eyes a bit more, tried to fix the looping hair strands on his head, tried to define the leg muscles a bit more, and I tried to improve the hand hanging at the side (though I don't think I made it much better. >.>). I also noticed that the Wii Fit board wasn't straight, so I fixed that too.

Edited September 9, 2013 by Anacybele

[Lenh]

I've finished making some changes. Though not a lot, because I still don't know what to do with the pose.

It's probably too late for this in particular, but could've he been using his stomach muscles to match the quote/theme: doing crunches or gyrations or flexing something?

I get the instructional/teacherTeaching standpoint but making a gesture from an action verb as a starting point might help energizing the drawing/creatingADynamicGesture.

[Amelia]

Abs are more defined, got rid of the smile, I messed with the eyes a bit more, tried to fix the looping hair strands on his head, tried to define the leg muscles a bit more, and I tried to improve the hand hanging at the side (though I don't think I made it much better. >.>). I also noticed that the Wii Fit board wasn't straight, so I fixed that too.

I think you said "define(d)" so much you don't even know what it means anymore.

Pose is still sloppy, lack of dynamic. Fred is now weak, fragile little girl who will surely fall down with just a flick on the forehead. I wonder is he even real or just a cardboard piece standing there.

He lacks the confident. Like seriously.

You should have changed the pose when it is not okay, not just leave it there at that.

You need to increase the space between him and in him.

SPREAD his legs out for more stable and firm stand. If from front view, his knees should be in the CENTER of the joint, not like poking out on different direction.

PUT the other arm on the waist. Geez. It's hanging there like a dead arm that Henry'd love to play with. Or not. :/

The hair is boring as all the strands are the same. Give the bangs different long and short length, and curve. Also Put his cowlick thing over one side, it's not gonna kill anyone. No one is symmetric, heck, NOTHING is symmetric, except patterns.

And lastly, his (supposed to be) "abs" is only like 1/3 of his body's width. And it looks like a chocolate bar underneath a tight shirt. Do you even look up for refferrence

[NobodiePichu]

abs aren't usually suppose to go up that high.

for a good muscle reference try this

http://idrawgirls.com/tutorials/wp-content/uploads/2011/10/man-muscles-anatomy-drawing-for-artists.jpg

or look up screen shots or pictures from the manga of DBZ for anime style muscles.

like this

http://th02.deviantart.net/fs70/PRE/f/2010/272/6/e/dragon_ball___tien_shinhan_ws_by_tekilazo-d2zq91j.jpg

i know neither of these are in the pose you want but there good for reference.

Edited September 9, 2013 by ShinyPichu

[Anacybele]

Pose is still sloppy, lack of dynamic. Fred is now weak, fragile little girl who will surely fall down with just a flick on the forehead. I wonder is he even real or just a cardboard piece standing there.

He lacks the confident. Like seriously.

You should have changed the pose when it is not okay, not just leave it there at that.

You need to increase the space between him and in him.

SPREAD his legs out for more stable and firm stand. If from front view, his knees should be in the CENTER of the joint, not like poking out on different direction.

PUT the other arm on the waist. Geez. It's hanging there like a dead arm that Henry'd love to play with. Or not. :/

The pose isn't supposed to be dynamic. He's meant to just be standing there instructing his pupil, as I said. I also want both his feet on top of the Wii Fit board as if he is just about to demonstrate that exercise he mentions.

What do you mean by put the other arm on the waist?

The hair is boring as all the strands are the same. Give the bangs different long and short length, and curve. Also Put his cowlick thing over one side, it's not gonna kill anyone. No one is symmetric, heck, NOTHING is symmetric, except patterns.

And lastly, his (supposed to be) "abs" is only like 1/3 of his body's width. And it looks like a chocolate bar underneath a tight shirt. Do you even look up for refferrence

So change Frederick's hair style? I can't, he wouldn't be Frederick anymore if I did. :/ I drew his bangs exactly as they look in his artwork.

Should I widen the abs or make them smaller then? And yes, I did use references, but he's wearing a shirt, so I figured I didn't have to draw every line in his abs.

Lehn: I'm not sure what you mean? o.O

ShinyPichu: Ah, thanks.

[Amelia]

The pose isn't supposed to be dynamic. He's meant to just be standing there instructing his pupil, as I said. I also want both his feet on top of the Wii Fit board as if he is just about to demonstrate that exercise he mentions.

What do you mean by put the other arm on the waist?

So you don't know what it means to be 'dynamic' in art. Okay. No wonder most of your art looks like a log.

Have you ever looked at a concept artwork, or even official artwork, and ask yourself: "Why is the art so different from mine, why does it looks so lively and not stiff, even if it's just a standing pose. A NORMAL standing pose?"

Until you find out the answer, I feel like there is no point of explain dynamic to you.

Put his hand on his waist.

So change Frederick's hair style? I can't, he wouldn't be Frederick anymore if I did. :/ I drew his bangs exactly as they look in his artwork.

Should I widen the abs or make them smaller then? And yes, I did use references, but he's wearing a shirt, so I figured I didn't have to draw every line in his

I'm sorry but I don't remember Frederick has a haystack as hair. The official art has a flow-y and soft feel.

Yours is stiff.

I am not asking you to change his hairstyle.

I am asking you to change the difference in the strands themselves. Everything is the same right here. And the middle bang is nothing more than a triangle with a split in the middle.

Wider. It's freaking small and square for abs.

And I don't think abs should be showing that much. No matter how tight the clothes are. Unless he's shirtless.

And speaking of which, you lack folds on clothes.

If skin have folds, then so is clothing.

[Anacybele]

So you don't know what it means to be 'dynamic' in art. Okay. No wonder most of your art looks like a log.

Have you ever looked at a concept artwork, or even official artwork, and ask yourself: "Why is the art so different from mine, why does it looks so lively and not stiff, even if it's just a standing pose. A NORMAL standing pose?"

Until you find out the answer, I feel like there is no point of explain dynamic to you.

Alright, now you're starting to get insulting. Telling me my artwork looks like a log isn't helpful. And no, I've never asked myself such a ridiculous question because I never believed my art looked much different. And I know what dynamic means. I'm not stupid.

Put his hand on his waist.

I considered that, but decided against it.

I'm sorry but I don't remember Frederick has a haystack as hair. The official art has a flow-y and soft feel.

Yours is stiff.

I am not asking you to change his hairstyle.

I am asking you to change the difference in the strands themselves. Everything is the same right here. And the middle bang is nothing more than a triangle with a split in the middle.

Wider. It's freaking small and square for abs.

And I don't think abs should be showing that much. No matter how tight the clothes are. Unless he's shirtless.

And speaking of which, you lack folds on clothes.

If skin have folds, then so is clothing.

The hair in the official art is also colored and drawn from a closer angle and has more details. I usually add those details in the colored version.

Fine, I'll widen the abs. And imo, abs ARE square...ish. But that's beside the point. And the abs not showing much is why I added those few fold lines from before. He isn't shirtless. Skin-tight clothing doesn't have many folds.

Edited September 10, 2013 by Anacybele

[AthenaWyrm]

Every pose should be dynamic

[Anacybele]

Every pose should be dynamic

Poses that are just standing still aren't. Because they're just standing there.

[AthenaWyrm]

That's why you should make it dynamic!

[Anacybele]

But my intention is for Frederick to be standing there instructing his pupil. Why must I keep repeating this?

[Lenh]

I guess the key thing is that if you want to convey something, show it, rather than try to convince the reader that that is happening in words. If you want to convey the idea that he's going to execute a maneuver: either make the connection with the future action stronger, or add a second panel where he's actually doing the exercise.

Without looking at the quote, I wouldn't have guessed he'd do anything with his stomach muscles (and I still don't really know where 'this' is actually referring to), and just the disconnect between quote and pose is pretty strong. You might be able to put a little miniscreen* aroundabout where he's pointing to strengthen that connection.

And character poses should be dynamic, even the standing around ones.

[AthenaWyrm]

Because it would look better if it was dynamic

[Anacybele]

I guess the key thing is that if you want to convey something, show it, rather than try to convince the reader that that is happening in words. If you want to convey the idea that he's going to execute a maneuver: either make the connection with the future action stronger, or add a second panel where he's actually doing the exercise.

Without looking at the quote, I wouldn't have guessed he'd do anything with his stomach muscles (and I still don't really know where 'this' is actually referring to), and just the disconnect between quote and pose is pretty strong. You might be able to put a little miniscreen* aroundabout where he's pointing to strengthen that connection.

And character poses should be dynamic, even the standing around ones.

The quote is just there as a bonus. I wasn't intending to show Frederick doing any exercises, only just about to do one, regardless of which one it is.

And if standing still poses can be dynamic, then tell me how to make it dynamic, that's all I ask.

[Lenh]

Look at 'im! His arms crossed behind his back; his face, rigid posture speaking volumes about his personality. Plus the top-downish perspective, plus slight rotation, plus the choice of costume. Maybe even the light source.

Anything that differentiates the image from the standard 'standing there with perfect balance, staring straight forward blankly with arms spaced equally apart and slightly away from the body' adds to the dynamicism.

Edited September 10, 2013 by Lenh

[Kon]

Alright, now you're starting to get insulting. Telling me my artwork looks like a log isn't helpful. And no, I've never asked myself such a ridiculous question because I never believed my art looked much different. And I know what dynamic means. I'm not stupid.

To her credit, he does look really stiff and straight like a log. And I'm not sure if you can tell, but there is a massive difference in the quality of your artwork and Yusuke Kozaki's. Kozaki's poses all look at least somewhat natural, and even when standing still they have fairly dynamic poses, not at all like your picture of Fred.

So change Frederick's hair style? I can't, he wouldn't be Frederick anymore if I did. :/ I drew his bangs exactly as they look in his artwork.

If changing his hair makes him not Frederick anymore, you really have a problem, hun. But that wasn't what Amelia was getting at.

The hair in the official art is also colored and drawn from a closer angle and has more details. I usually add those details in the colored version.

Your point is? The hair is still very samey and stiff in your picture. I mean, take a look at this page in the artbook: http://www.zerochan.net/1443322

Drawn at three different sizes, his hair is still nice and flowing and at least semi-detailed. Not a single piece of his hair is drawn exactly the same, and it all doesn't all flow the same way either.

Fine, I'll widen the abs. And imo, abs ARE square...ish. But that's beside the point. And the abs not showing much is why I added those few fold lines from before. He isn't shirtless. Skin-tight clothing doesn't have many folds.

Abs aren't really that square, they're more rounded. Have you ever seen a muscular torso before? Try using this for a reference: http://idrawgirls.com/images/2009Q4/man_anatomy_drawing_study.jpg

The pose Fred has now is really, really boring. There's nothing even remotely interesting in it and he looks like he's bored out of his skull, which is out of character for Fred since he's normally really intense and enthusiastic about anything to do with training. His pose could be improved by, well, putting his hand on his hip. His arm hanging limply at his side is not good at all and makes him seem very lifeless.

A dynamic pose doesn't always mean that a character is in motion, but it definitely helps in making the character look not boring. Try checking this post out: http://www.conceptart.org/forums/showthread.php?t=228572&s=820035b871f6e62258d3e452c65e9cc6&p=3250366#post3250366

This can help too, even though it uses some of the more cartoony poses as examples: http://cartoonsnap.blogspot.com/2008/09/how-to-draw-lively-poses-spongebob-tip.html

Edited September 10, 2013 by Kon

[shadowofchaos]

Your point is? The hair is still very samey and stiff in your picture. I mean, take a look at this page in the artbook: http://s2.zerochan.net/Frederick.(Fire.Emblem).full.1443322.jpg

While I don't mean to take from the momentum of your points... the link there's broken when linked to directly.

http://www.zerochan.net/1443322

Edited September 10, 2013 by shadowofchaos

[Kon]

Oh, how embarrassing. Fixed it~

[Anacybele]

To her credit, he does look really stiff and straight like a log. And I'm not sure if you can tell, but there is a massive difference in the quality of your artwork and Yusuke Kozaki's. Kozaki's poses all look at least somewhat natural, and even when standing still they have fairly dynamic poses, not at all like your picture of Fred.

Well, okay, but you're at least being a little nicer about it. I understand now.

If changing his hair makes him not Frederick anymore, you really have a problem, hun. But that wasn't what Amelia was getting at.

Okay, that's fine then.

Your point is? The hair is still very samey and stiff in your picture. I mean, take a look at this page in the artbook: http://www.zerochan.net/1443322

That's exactly what I was using as a reference for Frederick's hair. Because I have the artbook. But it seems that just using a reference isn't enough and I still get it wrong. What else can I do?

Abs aren't really that square, they're more rounded. Have you ever seen a muscular torso before? Try using this for a reference: http://idrawgirls.com/images/2009Q4/man_anatomy_drawing_study.jpg

Yeah, I googled references when redrawing them. But he's wearing a shirt, so you wouldn't clearly see his abs. Should I just leave them out completely?

The pose Fred has now is really, really boring. There's nothing even remotely interesting in it and he looks like he's bored out of his skull, which is out of character for Fred since he's normally really intense and enthusiastic about anything to do with training. His pose could be improved by, well, putting his hand on his hip. His arm hanging limply at his side is not good at all and makes him seem very lifeless.

Alright, fine, I'll put his hand on his hip. xP At least this will make his wedding ring more visible. Hee hee.

A dynamic pose doesn't always mean that a character is in motion, but it definitely helps in making the character look not boring. Try checking this post out: http://www.conceptart.org/forums/showthread.php?t=228572&s=820035b871f6e62258d3e452c65e9cc6&p=3250366#post3250366

This can help too, even though it uses some of the more cartoony poses as examples: http://cartoonsnap.blogspot.com/2008/09/how-to-draw-lively-poses-spongebob-tip.html

Alright, this I did not know. That's all I needed to be told. Thanks.

EDIT: ...Oh duh! I did already know this! I knew it looked familiar. I just remembered seeing line of action stuff in an old How to Draw the Powerpuff Girls book I had awhile back. I feel dumb now. lol

Edited September 10, 2013 by Anacybele

[Anacybele]

Okay, finished the new edits!

You know, I do like this a lot more now! Frederick, you so sexy. <3

I still have trouble with hands sometimes though. But I did manage to fix the eyes and hopefully the hair looks better. Also just erased the ab lines completely and replaced them with fold lines.

Edited September 11, 2013 by Anacybele

[Anacybele]

Nobody gave me anymore critique, so went ahead and colored this. :D

I fixed it up some more too. Decided to shade the hair a little differently than I normally do and I like it better this way! This definitely looks like Freddy Bear now. <3

[Mew]

Hey, this turned out nice. I think coloring the hair did make it look better. I also think that removing the abs was the right choice. Frederick would probably make a good fitness trainer XD

I do have a suggestion for you if you have the lines on a separate layer (and if you want to listen/try it out), which wouldn't be too difficult to go back and try. I feel like I try to push this concept on people a lot, but yeah, color holds! Color holds are when an artist uses colored linework instead of pure black. I did notice that your lines aren't pure black on his shirt, but on places like his muscles, it still has a sort of "coloring book" look to it.

So if you're using photoshop, you can lock the transparency on the lineart layer and try coloring some of the lines to make them blend in with the color around it a bit better. Give it a shot if you get a chance.

Another thing to point out, it appears to me that you tend to use the same line width throughout a picture. Not \necessarily\ a bad thing, but I think you could try to experiment with different line weights in your next piece, or just for fun if you don't like how it comes out. One really good way to make a character pop is to outline them with a slightly thicker line. Another thing that artists do with line weight is use thicker lines to suggest areas of shadow, and thinner lines to suggest areas that are lit. If you don't know what I mean, pay attention to the lines in a piece of artwork like http://memberfiles.freewebs.com/45/82/49668245/photos/Site-Album/windwaker-characters1024-1.jpg this! Different sizes of lines and shapes work really well to make these guys pop and feel more dynamic, it's a pretty extreme example but I think it kind of drives my point home. Wind Waker art is ~awesome!~

By the way, please don't perceive this as an attack or anything D: I'm just pointing out some things that you could try next time!