[FE10] Tier List v.2

[PKL]

[spoiler=Generic Ruleset]

Drafting:

1. This draft is for 7 players.

2. Ike, Micaiah, Sothe, Geoffrey, the Herons, the Black Knight, and Lehran are free for all to use.

3. The drafting order is reversed for the last round of picks.

4. Haar is banned from drafting.

5. The game will be played on Normal Mode.

Rules:

1. Undrafted units may recruit characters, Rescue and Shove/Smite undrafted characters and NPCs, trade, Escape/Arrive, and transfer items/skills between teams.

2. Undrafted units may not do anything not listed above, including but not limited to meatshielding, building Supports, opening Doors and Chests, finding hidden items, and giving Blood Tide/Night Tide/White Pool bonuses.

3. Allied and Other units may do as they please without penalty.

4. Defend chapters count the last played Player Phase for turns if the timer is waited out.

Penalties:

1. Undrafted units have a 4 turn penalty, per unit per chapter (1-6 counts as 2 chapters, and 4-E counts as 5 chapters).

Exceptions:

1. One of Edward or Nolan is free for each of 1-P, 1-1 and 1-2.

2. Volug is free for 1-5.

3. Elincia, Marcia and Nealuchi are free for 2-P

4. Nephenee and Brom are free for 2-1.

5. One undrafted, non-Lucia unit is free for 2-2.

6. One undrafted, 7 move unit is free for 3-1.

7. One undrafted, 6 move unit is free for 3-3.

The other one is outdated. So let's give this another shot, eh?

1stPick

Titania

Edward

Jill

Nolan

Oscar

Volug

Boyd

2nd Pick

Nephenee

Soren

Aran

Zihark

Elincia

Marcia

Gatrie

3rd Pick

Mia

Nailah

Ilyana

Nealuchi

Tanith

Janaff

Ulki

4th Pick

Calill

Sigrun

Laura

Brom

Mordecai

Rhys

Muarim

Fifth Pick

Shinon

Tormod

Rolf

Heather

Lucia

Ranulf

Kieran

6th Pick

Leonardo

Tauroneo

Meg

Tibarn

Naesala

Skrimir

Makalov

7th Pick

Lethe

Astrid

Sanaki

Vika

Kyza

Caineghis

Giffca

8th Pick

Lyre

Danved

Pelleas

Fiona

Renning

Nasir

Stefan

9th Pick

Mist

Volke

Bastian

Ena

Gareth

Oliver

Kurhnaga

Edited August 25, 2012 by CR-S0I

[Ciarre]

I'd pick Leo WAY before Meg or Tauroneo

I would definitely not pick Lucia that high

I think Mia needs to fall a bit

Muarim is a bit too high, he needs to be closer to Tormod and Vika

[PKL]

I'd pick Leo WAY before Meg or Tauroneo

I would definitely not pick Lucia that high

I think Mia needs to fall a bit

Muarim is a bit too high, he needs to be closer to Tormod and Vika

The reasoning for Leo vs Meg and Tauroneo is basically that he cant be your main DB until 3-6. Meg can be your main DB throughout and Tauroneo can trivialize 3-12 and 3-13 with boots. I should probably put Leo above him though...

Mia falling is a no-no. Look at who's below her. While its true her lack of 1-2 range is troublesome if shes in worst bio as your sole DB, its also true that shes an early GM that can tie with most of the other GM's turncounts just fine despite the wind edge problem.

Muarim is perfectly usable in 4-4 with BEXP unlike the other 2 though and can boss kill in Part 1 pretty well. If I lower him, where to?

[Ciarre]

Meg CAN be your main DB, but she honestly doesn't save any turns compared to Leo. I assume that's what we're tiering by, anyway.

[Quintessence]

The reasoning for Leo vs Meg and Tauroneo is basically that he cant be your main DB until 3-6. Meg can be your main DB throughout and Tauroneo can trivialize 3-12 and 3-13 with boots. I should probably put Leo above him though...

Mia falling is a no-no. Look at who's below her. While its true her lack of 1-2 range is troublesome if shes in worst bio as your sole DB, its also true that shes an early GM that can tie with most of the other GM's turncounts just fine despite the wind edge problem.

Muarim is perfectly usable in 4-4 with BEXP unlike the other 2 though and can boss kill in Part 1 pretty well. If I lower him, where to?

Leo is way better than Meg and Tauros, and he can be your main DB on 3-6. Beastfoe + Crossbow. Tigers and cats have like 40 to 60 hit rate against him. He OHKOs them with bowgun while Meg needs to double them or rely on Brave Sword. His only problem is 3-12 but Micaiah is doing everything, he can go left and kill enemies above ledges. He's good at 3-13 and has a FAR BETTER P4 than these two. Add DBow to that.

I'm starting to think Oscar&Boyd>Edward&Nolan&Jill. P1 is just Sothe. Nolan and Edd just shave two or three turns, they aren't that unique, while Oscar and Boyd give better TCs at P3.

I think Lincy>Zhark

Siggy should be below Manith

Leo should be 5th pick imo

Lethe 7th pick and Mody 4th? Cat gauge is lol but not that bad. She should be 5th pick, she gets nice Str, Sp and Def

Sanaki is a bit low, she should be below Skrimir

Pelleas should be last 8th pick

[PKL]

Leo is way better than Meg and Tauros, and he can be your main DB on 3-6. Beastfoe + Crossbow. Tigers and cats have like 40 to 60 hit rate against him. He OHKOs them with bowgun while Meg needs to double them or rely on Brave Sword. His only problem is 3-12 but Micaiah is doing everything, he can go left and kill enemies above ledges. He's good at 3-13 and has a FAR BETTER P4 than these two. Add DBow to that.

I'm starting to think Oscar&Boyd>Edward&Nolan&Jill. P1 is just Sothe. Nolan and Edd just shave two or three turns, they aren't that unique, while Oscar and Boyd give better TCs at P3.

I think Lincy>Zhark

Siggy should be below Manith

Leo should be 5th pick imo

Lethe 7th pick and Mody 4th? Cat gauge is lol but not that bad. She should be 5th pick, she gets nice Str, Sp and Def

Sanaki is a bit low, she should be below Skrimir

Pelleas should be last 8th pick

I said Leo cant be good until 3-6...learn to read >:(

Jill shaves a turn in 1-6-1. Is good at doing 3-6 reliably and can switch sides to raep the rest of part 3. Then she owns silver army or any route u put her in and can help in 2 turning 4-E-1. That looks like > Oscar to me.

Having Nolan gives you access to reliable clears of the first DB maps thanks to both him and Ed and he can get some very nice TCs overall. Not to mention, has a lot of availability.

Ed is self explanatory. A Nolan thats better in 1-4.

Oscar is admidetly, almost titania-like, but he doesnt save as many turns overall as Ed and Nolan. Ive done the math. Not to mention, other GMs can almost tie oscar and tit's turncounts but none can tie ed/nolan.

Lincy>zihark is debatable. While she can prevent a penalty, there are other ways to avoid the penalty like Marcia+Hammer Brom, Nealuchi and Calill. And shes not as available as Zihark. She does have her rescue shenanigans in Hawk Army though...but Zihark is a perfectly viable DB that doesnt need any training whatsoever.

Sigrun is already below Tanith...what are you smoking?

I feel guilty for starting the Leo hype...

Lethe needs the Part 2 BEXP, which she might not be getting. She helps in 2-2 and can be decent, but that gauge really limits how much she can do.

Reasoning for this? She only exists for 7 maps total and requires a lot of resources to do what any other mage can do, but worse. (owning the desert)

Pelleas only exists in 2 chapters before endgame and then hes also awful there. Explain this.

[Ciarre]

it's not hype dammit

leo + jill got me a 6 turn of 3-6, leo nets you a 4 turn of 1-1, and can shove Sothe which is eh but whatever. Meg doesn't save any turns that Leo can't save. Tauro helps for 3-12 but you CAN 3 turn it without him. Otherwise it's a 4 turn, which isn't that bad. Leo can also 2 turn kill Ike without boots. Plus he has a better endgame. So at least bring him up over those two.

edit: oh you already did i stoopid

Edited August 21, 2012 by CR-S01

[PKL]

@CR- I know the 1-1 4 turn. I was the first to do it >_>.

Did the math and apparently Leonardo comes out on top of meg in a theoretical Leo solo vs Meg solo. Mostly due to 1-1 and 3-13.

[PKL]

Been thinking. Is Kieran's 2 speedwings, mount and 4-2 really warrant him being > Leo?

[Quintessence]

I said Leo cant be good until 3-6...learn to read >:(

Jill shaves a turn in 1-6-1. Is good at doing 3-6 reliably and can switch sides to raep the rest of part 3. Then she owns silver army or any route u put her in and can help in 2 turning 4-E-1. That looks like > Oscar to me.

Having Nolan gives you access to reliable clears of the first DB maps thanks to both him and Ed and he can get some very nice TCs overall. Not to mention, has a lot of availability.

Ed is self explanatory. A Nolan thats better in 1-4.

Oscar is admidetly, almost titania-like, but he doesnt save as many turns overall as Ed and Nolan. Ive done the math. Not to mention, other GMs can almost tie oscar and tit's turncounts but none can tie ed/nolan.

Lincy>zihark is debatable. While she can prevent a penalty, there are other ways to avoid the penalty like Marcia+Hammer Brom, Nealuchi and Calill. And shes not as available as Zihark. She does have her rescue shenanigans in Hawk Army though...but Zihark is a perfectly viable DB that doesnt need any training whatsoever.

Sigrun is already below Tanith...what are you smoking?

I feel guilty for starting the Leo hype...

Lethe needs the Part 2 BEXP, which she might not be getting. She helps in 2-2 and can be decent, but that gauge really limits how much she can do.

Reasoning for this? She only exists for 7 maps total and requires a lot of resources to do what any other mage can do, but worse. (owning the desert)

Pelleas only exists in 2 chapters before endgame and then hes also awful there. Explain this.

What can Edd/Nolan/Jill shave on P1?

Edd/Nolan, 4 turns

Jill 1 turn

Oscar shaves 1 or 2 at 3-1, shaves 2 at 3-2 (considering 4 turn as regular tc), shaves like 1 on 3-3, 2 on 3-5, like 1 or 2 on 3-8, 1 on 3-10, 1 on 3-11...that's like 8 or 10 turns just on P3 while Edd/Nolan shave 4 or 5.

Jill, on the other hand shaves 2 on 3-8, 1 or 2 on 3-10, like 3 on 3-11 and has a far better P4. Jill shaves like 7 or 8 turns.

In that way, imo, Jill>Eddie>Nolan. But regarding the list, Oscar>Jill>Boyd>Edward>Nolan. Daein's P1 has nothing special, neither P3. Nolan and Edd are good units because they come early, etc, etc. But in the long term they aren't useful shaving turns in the same way Oscar, Jill and Boyd are.

Imo, 1st round should be:

1. Titania
2. Oscar
3. Jill
4. Boyd
5. Edward
6. Nolan
7. Volug

Elincia vs Zihark: Again, P1 can be done by anyone having a nice or regular TC. Elincia gives a low TC at P2 and P4. Zihark is doing what any other unit can do, well just better, but not shaving a lot.

Derp, I meant Sigrun>Janaff and Ulki.

Laguz are like filler units, they should not be main units, so gauge shouldn't be such an issue. She's doing secondary tasks.

Pelleas can attend reinforcements on 4-2 and is a way better pick than Ena and Stefan

Btw, there's a huge gap between Soren and Ilyana. Soren down or Ilyana up. Ilyana has good P1, same P3 as Soren and better P4 than Soren.

[Florete]

Ena shouldn't be a pick above Gareth, if above him at all. She's okay for reliability but not likely to cut any turns in E-1, worthless in E-2, can't move enough and is likely still worthless in E-3, then Gareth arrives and hits stuff like a truck.

[MacLovin]

Brom is a 4th round pick?

I can't see the reason behind it.

[a.f.k.a. Howard Hughes]

isn't gareth doubled and orkoed by ashera? ena has like res

[charlie_]

Quint, Ed+Nolan shave way more.

1 each in 1-1

Net the drop or possibly a 4 turn in 1-2

Shave a turn in 1-3 iirc

Edward shaves 3 turns in 1-4, Nolan shaves 2.

You need 3 fighting units for 1-6-1, and them shoving shaves a turn in 1-6-2.

Need 2 shoves to 5 turn 1-7.

They can help rout in 1-8.

1-E they push for treasure.

That's way more than 4 turns.

[PKL]

What can Edd/Nolan/Jill shave on P1?

Edd/Nolan, 4 turns

Jill 1 turn

Oscar shaves 1 or 2 at 3-1, shaves 2 at 3-2 (considering 4 turn as regular tc), shaves like 1 on 3-3, 2 on 3-5, like 1 or 2 on 3-8, 1 on 3-10, 1 on 3-11...that's like 8 or 10 turns just on P3 while Edd/Nolan shave 4 or 5.

Jill, on the other hand shaves 2 on 3-8, 1 or 2 on 3-10, like 3 on 3-11 and has a far better P4. Jill shaves like 7 or 8 turns.

In that way, imo, Jill>Eddie>Nolan. But regarding the list, Oscar>Jill>Boyd>Edward>Nolan. Daein's P1 has nothing special, neither P3. Nolan and Edd are good units because they come early, etc, etc. But in the long term they aren't useful shaving turns in the same way Oscar, Jill and Boyd are.

Imo, 1st round should be:

1. Titania
2. Oscar
3. Jill
4. Boyd
5. Edward
6. Nolan
7. Volug

Elincia vs Zihark: Again, P1 can be done by anyone having a nice or regular TC. Elincia gives a low TC at P2 and P4. Zihark is doing what any other unit can do, well just better, but not shaving a lot.

Derp, I meant Sigrun>Janaff and Ulki.

Laguz are like filler units, they should not be main units, so gauge shouldn't be such an issue. She's doing secondary tasks.

Pelleas can attend reinforcements on 4-2 and is a way better pick than Ena and Stefan

Btw, there's a huge gap between Soren and Ilyana. Soren down or Ilyana up. Ilyana has good P1, same P3 as Soren and better P4 than Soren.

What SB said about Ed/Nolan vs Oscar. And add part 3 DB to that, which ppl seem to forget.

Zihark vs Elincia:

2-E saves a penalty and 4 turns due to it. +4

Doesn exist for the rest of the game until:

4-2 Rescue and flight + tempest blade combat is like a godsend to her. +6

4-5 Rescue again +7

Zihark:

1-6-1 can help kill armors sothe didnt ORKO but might not shave a turn.

1-6-2 shoves sothe. +1

1-7 shoves sothe. +2

1-8 Miccy sothe duo might be something above 9 turns. 5 wih zihark. +6

1-E doesnt do anything. Maybe kill Jarod.

3-6 Helps rout.

3-12 ^ +7

3-13 Kills ike. +idk how much. Sothe cant even kill Ike well. Let's say, 2 turns. +9

Can exist in any route.

This isnt taking into account that elincia leaves you with no part 3 if you earlypick her and she isnt available for so long.

Advantage: Zihark

How is Sigrun>Janaff Ulki?

She needs drops, robe and speedwings (making you have to draft a CRK is a cost in itself). Janaff and UIki dont require any resources except ocasional grass and they have an amazing mastery and combat. Sigrun does have 1-2 range but they have an availability lead on her (admidetly not that much but theyre still a few chapters).

Idk about Ilyana>Soren. At first, availability could see like something to make her almost > Soren. But I have to research this further. Soren is much more reliable due to his BEXP'd spd as a pure combat unit and his higher magic on average gives him an edge in 3-5 meteoring. But she has availability in Part 1, is very similar in Part 3 despite her spd and BEXP issues and can go desert...its just that an average ilyana gets so royally screwed over by her BEXP situation, shes hardly the same as Soren unless you rig her spd or you take a turn in 1-E to get the wing...

[Quintessence]

I'm considering a player drafted units for each part, at least, two units.

Quint, Ed+Nolan shave way more.

1 each in 1-1

Net the drop or possibly a 4 turn in 1-2

Shave a turn in 1-3 iirc

Edward shaves 3 turns in 1-4, Nolan shaves 2.

You need 3 fighting units for 1-6-1, and them shoving shaves a turn in 1-6-2.

Need 2 shoves to 5 turn 1-7.

They can help rout in 1-8.

1-E they push for treasure.

That's way more than 4 turns.

That's why I'm not considering 1-5 - 1-E, basically because any other unit is able to do that. That's why I just count 1-1 to 1-4, because those are TCs ONLY ED/NOLAN get. Units like Leo, Laura, Ilyana, Aran, Meg, Volug, Jill and Zihark do the rest. Obviously, this is considering you drafted at least two units for P1. Result = 4 to 5 turns

What SB said about Ed/Nolan vs Oscar. And add part 3 DB to that, which ppl seem to forget.

Daein's Part 3 can be done by any other unit. I'm not considering just Miccy and Sothe, I'm comparing if they have something special or different to offer that other units don't.

Zihark vs Elincia:

2-E saves a penalty and 4 turns due to it. +4

Doesn exist for the rest of the game until:

4-2 Rescue and flight + tempest blade combat is like a godsend to her. +6

4-5 Rescue again +7

Zihark:

1-6-1 can help kill armors sothe didnt ORKO but might not shave a turn.

1-6-2 shoves sothe. +1

1-7 shoves sothe. +2

1-8 Miccy sothe duo might be something above 9 turns. 5 wih zihark. +6

1-E doesnt do anything. Maybe kill Jarod.

3-6 Helps rout.

3-12 ^ +7

3-13 Kills ike. +idk how much. Sothe cant even kill Ike well. Let's say, 2 turns. +9

Can exist in any route.

This isnt taking into account that elincia leaves you with no part 3 if you earlypick her and she isnt available for so long.

Advantage: Zihark

Zihark's TC for P1 and P3 can be done by other unit, for example, Aran, Edd, Nolan, Leo, maybe Meg, Volug. He does it better than most of these and doesn't require so much resources but in the end...what? Why should I focus on drafting him if I have other alternatives that do the same, can be picked on other rounds, and I can even pick someone who offers something different and better in terms of TC? I may not pick him, but I'm not losing something special, whereas not picking Elincia means losing someone that ONLY HER can do, like 4-5, although the player might think on other ways of 1 turning it. His versatility is good, going to the GMs is a nice option when you have P3 Daein solved but lack units on GMs, and that's what maintains him as a good option, but he isn't shaving any turns there in comparison to other units (of course good or acceptable units).

Therefore I think Elincia is a far better pick than Zihark, and deserves a better spot.

How is Sigrun>Janaff Ulki?

She needs drops, robe and speedwings (making you have to draft a CRK is a cost in itself). Janaff and UIki dont require any resources except ocasional grass and they have an amazing mastery and combat. Sigrun does have 1-2 range but they have an availability lead on her (admidetly not that much but theyre still a few chapters).

Her main issue is Str for Stunning the 3-11 boss, she needs 39attck. Best option: 25Str + Stl Grtlance. BEXPing her for Str is a good option, or if you have the drop, even better, or get str through combat level ups. Her Str growth is 45%, not bad. She is at high-best bio so she should dodge things (20-60%hit). At least, I'd choose her over the hawks due to P4 performance. She can get forges, Adept+Miracle and do something good on 4-P and 4-3 (something few units can do due to dessert), while the Hawks need to rely on Wildheart, Laguz Stones and/or Olivi Grasses, which might cost you like one extra turn (considering Silver). Or they can do something less relevant on Hawk/Greil's Army. Sigrun's sp is shit but fixable with level ups, speedwings, Adept, Resolve, or BEXP.

Idk about Ilyana>Soren. At first, availability could see like something to make her almost > Soren. But I have to research this further. Soren is much more reliable due to his BEXP'd spd as a pure combat unit and his higher magic on average gives him an edge in 3-5 meteoring. But she has availability in Part 1, is very similar in Part 3 despite her spd and BEXP issues and can go desert...its just that an average ilyana gets so royally screwed over by her BEXP situation, shes hardly the same as Soren unless you rig her spd or you take a turn in 1-E to get the wing...

Well...Ilyana can get the 1-5 Dust and cap magic, she can cap str, these for BEXP level ups on 2nd Tier by P3. She'll have Str, Mag and Skl capped really fast, like by level 6 or 7, and if you give her the 3-1 Robe, then Hp is another capped stat. Soren is just more comfortable for BEXPing due to awesome Mag, Skl and Sp, and on top of that innate Adept, but Ilyana has done something on P1 and, the P4 thingy. I don't know, Imo she's better than Mia, respecting TC, like making them more close.

Honestly, why Mordy so soon? He's better undrafted lol

Leo should be over Rofl, he's better at P1 and P3 than Rolf on P3. And both do the same on P4. GMs has more units, competition is bigger, while DB has few units.

Pelleas over Nasir, Nasir's just helping at 4-E-5, LOL, while Pelleas at least can Flare Izuka with Elincia and help routing on 4-2.

Fiona is too low, she's complete shit but offer something good by P4, she should be above...um...err....derp...over Nasir...

Edited August 21, 2012 by Quintessence

[PKL]

I'm considering a player drafted units for each part, at least, two units.

Let's assume units exist in a vacuum please. If we start going by ifs and buts, then we're never going to really know where a unit should be placed. Oh, but elincia might get a GM after all! She must be a really nice pick. Oh, Titania might also have blabla in their team! Omg. yeah, those arguments dont work for a draft tier list. They must be assumed to be alone otherwise, we'll never finish.

That's why I'm not considering 1-5 - 1-E, basically because any other unit is able to do that. That's why I just count 1-1 to 1-4, because those are TCs ONLY ED/NOLAN get. Units like Leo, Laura, Ilyana, Aran, Meg, Volug, Jill and Zihark do the rest. Obviously, this is considering you drafted at least two units for P1. Result = 4 to 5 turns

Oscar's TCs can be emulated by Titania and a few other units. Result = less than 4 or 5 turns. Try again.

Daein's Part 3 can be done by any other unit. I'm not considering just Miccy and Sothe, I'm comparing if they have something special or different to offer that other units don't.

Your views are so weird. Daein's part 3 cant be done by just any other unit. Can geoffrey do daein part 3? ;) Ok, seriously, some do it better than others, be it more reliability or other stuff. Is that so hard to comprehend? I wouldnt say Leo in 3-6 is something reliable...

20/7 Leo averages: 32 HP 17 Str 5 Mag 25 Skl 18 Spd 20 Lck 13 Def 15Res

He gets like 2HKO'd, doesnt double and has shit spd. There are much better units for the job.

Zihark's TC for P1 and P3 can be done by other unit, for example, Aran, Edd, Nolan, Leo, maybe Meg, Volug. He does it better than most of these and doesn't require so much resources but in the end...what? Why should I focus on drafting him if I have other alternatives that do the same, can be picked on other rounds, and I can even pick someone who offers something different and better in terms of TC? I may not pick him, but I'm not losing something special, whereas not picking Elincia means losing someone that ONLY HER can do, like 4-5, although the player might think on other ways of 1 turning it. His versatility is good, going to the GMs is a nice option when you have P3 Daein solved but lack units on GMs, and that's what maintains him as a good option, but he isn't shaving any turns there in comparison to other units (of course good or acceptable units).

Therefore I think Elincia is a far better pick than Zihark, and deserves a better spot.

Hahahahahahaah no. Bolded is so false.

Her main issue is Str for Stunning the 3-11 boss, she needs 39attck. Best option: 25Str + Stl Grtlance. BEXPing her for Str is a good option, or if you have the drop, even better, or get str through combat level ups. Her Str growth is 45%, not bad. She is at high-best bio so she should dodge things (20-60%hit). At least, I'd choose her over the hawks due to P4 performance. She can get forges, Adept+Miracle and do something good on 4-P and 4-3 (something few units can do due to dessert), while the Hawks need to rely on Wildheart, Laguz Stones and/or Olivi Grasses, which might cost you like one extra turn (considering Silver). Or they can do something less relevant on Hawk/Greil's Army. Sigrun's sp is shit but fixable with level ups, speedwings, Adept, Resolve, or BEXP.

Hint: Sigrun doesnt get str with BEXP. She gets skl lck res.

Well...Ilyana can get the 1-5 Dust and cap magic, she can cap str, these for BEXP level ups on 2nd Tier by P3. She'll have Str, Mag and Skl capped really fast, like by level 6 or 7, and if you give her the 3-1 Robe, then Hp is another capped stat. Soren is just more comfortable for BEXPing due to awesome Mag, Skl and Sp, and on top of that innate Adept, but Ilyana has done something on P1 and, the P4 thingy. I don't know, Imo she's better than Mia, respecting TC, like making them more close.

...and she will still have issues capping most things on average. Assuming a 20/8 Ilyana in 3-2:

HP 32 Str 15 Mag 20 Skl 22 Spd 18 Lck 12 Def 10 Res 17

If u give her the robe and dust:

HP 39 Str 15 Mag 22 Skl 22 Spd 18 Lck 12 Def 10 Res 17

She might cap hp and skl. But now she starts proc'ing mag lck and res and even whenever she caps those, shes going to start proc'ing def OR spd next. Thats why i say her BEXP situation is pretty bad. She just has trash for spd. Which might actually cost turns over a fully BEXP'd soren. Which, did I mention, can get 23 AS by 3-2? And there's no way Ily>Mia. I demonstrated Mia is actually really fucking good many times, she can tie with most other foot GMs even with her 1-2 range problem. Ilyana has her durabilty woes, magic woes and super huge spd issues. (an average ilyana isnt doubling reliably even in Tier 3).

Honestly, why Mordy so soon? He's better undrafted lol

Because the tier list doesnt neccesarily assume we're leaving him undrafted and doing the 2-2 4 turn strat. He can smite people, joins a bit early and can have monstrous combat if done right.

Leo should be over Rofl, he's better at P1 and P3 than Rolf on P3. And both do the same on P4. GMs has more units, competition is bigger, while DB has few units.

Hahaha. No. Rolf can actually contribute well depending on your team. Leonardo can shave 1 turn in 1-1 and 3-13. Maybe crossbow something in 3-6. That's 3 maps worth of something. Meanwhile, Rolf can contribute with Ballistae in 3-P (this helps Skrimir behave, believe it or not), can Killer Bow things in 3-1, can help nuke the 3-2 boss in 1 round with a Steel Bow forge with Max MT and crit, can burn supplies, can OHKO ledge mages in 3-4 with perfect accuracy thanks to silencer, can ORKO the 3-5 boss and 1 turn if hes a marksman, can crossbow things in 3-8's eastern portion, can kill stationary enemies in 3-10, can resolve wrath shit in 4-2 as opposed to Leo's reinforcement handling (which is lol, even pelleas can do that) and can have a lot more chance to be able to ORKO izuka on average. (leo might not even double). Just dont bring up that comparison again. It makes you look silly.

Leo's averages in 4-5:

Assuming 20/12/5 Leo:

HP 42.2 Str 23.8 Mag 10.8 Skl 33.50 Spd 24.2 Lck 26.8 Def 19.2 Res 22.2

He might not even survive the cats long enough to even do the 2 turn strat :(. He can barely double Izuka if he uses Lughnasadh.

Izuka stats:

46 HP 18 def

Leo would have 39 MT with Lughnasadh which would translate to:

21 x 2 = 42. Short of ORKO'ing by 2 points.

Rolf's averages in 4-5:

Assuming 20/5 Rolf:

HP 52.4 Str 32 Mag 9 Skl 32.35 Spd 29.8 Lck 21.05 Def 23.05 Res 17.6

Rolf would have 50 MT with silencer as opposed to Leo's 39 MT. This isnt even a fair comparison :(. And its obvious Im sandbagging Rolf's level. Due to his better availability and being a in a team where BEXP isnt as contested. Its obvious Rolf can be much higher leveled than this. Specially because of Paragon.

Pelleas over Nasir, Nasir's just helping at 4-E-5, LOL, while Pelleas at least can Flare Izuka with Elincia and help routing on 4-2.

Pelleas flaring Izuka. Sounds RELIABLE.

Fiona is too low, she's complete shit but offer something good by P4, she should be above...um...err....derp...over Nasir...

She takes practically all your BEXP throughout the game. Never actually does anything even with resources poured into her for all her chapters of existence and only really gets to do something in 4-2. The ridiculous amount of resources she requires hinders the team so much.

Answers in quote.

[Florete]

isn't gareth doubled and orkoed by ashera? ena has like res

1. By the time that happens (turn 2 enemy phase), you probably won't be needing him (or Ena) anymore.

2. Pure Water/Ward/Wardwood (a full boost from the former two will barely save him).

3. Base Ena, transformed and without any other boosts, doesn't survive Ashera, either (although she can get Res from BEXP pretty easily).

[Shadow Mir]

Pelleas over Nasir, Nasir's just helping at 4-E-5, LOL, while Pelleas at least can Flare Izuka with Elincia and help routing on 4-2.

Reliable, this is not. And you'd need like 36 mag + Carreau or 34 mag + Verrine for Flare to OHKO (which I can pretty safely dismiss as not happening by then).

Edited August 22, 2012 by Golden Cucco

[PKL]

I guess Ena can be around Gareth. They're both equally useless, except Ena has a slight chance of being useful, somehow in 3 more maps. Ive never needed ena for any of the endgame maps and whenever I draft gareth, he never actually shaves any turns ever either. Nasir is the only 1 that makes a difference in 4-E-5.

[PKL]

Reliable, this is not. And you'd need like 36 mag + Carreau or 34 mag + Verrine for Flare to OHKO (which I can pretty safely dismiss as not happening by then).

Yeah, that's definetely not happening..

Actually, with BEXP, its feasible for Pelleas to OHKO izuka. His best growths are lck then mag then res. With enough BEXP, he could get to the magic neccesary for that. But still...lol

Edited August 22, 2012 by CR-S0I

[Quintessence]

Leo

For 3-6, give him Drop (cause he can get you drop and 5 turn on 1-2 with free Nolan) and shield and, if necessary, robe. And I, at least, assume, he's BEXP'd as soon as he caps Skill and Res, which makes his Hp, Str/Sp/Def and Lck get better. Also, I've had Leo get to 20/14 by the beginning of 3-12, with Paragon and kills he can get to 20/17, Crown for 3-13 and more BEXP. So by Izuka, he can be by 20/17/7, not that low. And Leo with another DB can get a nice TC for P1, which may give you the opportunity on 1st/2nd/3rd round to pick units that help you get a better TC than getting a regular TC with units that Zihark. But, WHATEVER...

Sigrun

It's better Sigrun on P4 than hawks on P4, because it's not good to rely on 1 ranged combat, Halfshift or waste turns consuming Olivis or Stones.

Lethe

What does Mordy do that Lethe can't. Lethe can double with halfshift, gets fast to S and SS Strike rank. Mordy can smite, even OHKO enemies but with Wildheart he's not so good. I mean, he is on 4th pick, while she is on 7th pick. It's unbalanced.

Pelleas

Sp, Mag and Res/Skl/Lck are his highest growths. He can cap Sp and Magic by 4-2, promote and on 4-5 base, be BEXP'd until he gets to 29Sp and double Izuka. Just a thought. But even if it is reliable or not, he's a better pick than Nasir, specially when you lack Hawk units. I'd prefer draft Pelleas than Nasir on this situation, and also, even bunches of Laguz and other units can 2 turn 4-E-5.

Fiona

Same as Pelleas. If you lack a unit for P4 she's a better option than Nasir. 4-E picks are better when you have a balanced P4.

[PKL]

Leo

For 3-6, give him Drop (cause he can get you drop and 5 turn on 1-2 with free Nolan) and shield and, if necessary, robe. And I, at least, assume, he's BEXP'd as soon as he caps Skill and Res, which makes his Hp, Str/Sp/Def and Lck get better. Also, I've had Leo get to 20/14 by the beginning of 3-12, with Paragon and kills he can get to 20/17, Crown for 3-13 and more BEXP. So by Izuka, he can be by 20/17/7, not that low. And Leo with another DB can get a nice TC for P1, which may give you the opportunity on 1st/2nd/3rd round to pick units that help you get a better TC than getting a regular TC with units that Zihark. But, WHATEVER...

Sigrun

It's better Sigrun on P4 than hawks on P4, because it's not good to rely on 1 ranged combat, Halfshift or waste turns consuming Olivis or Stones.

Lethe

What does Mordy do that Lethe can't. Lethe can double with halfshift, gets fast to S and SS Strike rank. Mordy can smite, even OHKO enemies but with Wildheart he's not so good. I mean, he is on 4th pick, while she is on 7th pick. It's unbalanced.

Pelleas

Sp, Mag and Res/Skl/Lck are his highest growths. He can cap Sp and Magic by 4-2, promote and on 4-5 base, be BEXP'd until he gets to 29Sp and double Izuka. Just a thought. But even if it is reliable or not, he's a better pick than Nasir, specially when you lack Hawk units. I'd prefer draft Pelleas than Nasir on this situation, and also, even bunches of Laguz and other units can 2 turn 4-E-5.

Fiona

Same as Pelleas. If you lack a unit for P4 she's a better option than Nasir. 4-E picks are better when you have a balanced P4.

Even with a drop and BEXP assumed, Leonardo will still have trouble doing anything in 3-6 reliably. He might get lucky and get 3HKO'd, maybe, in a thicket tile. And I told you we are assuming a character pick's worth by analyzing what they can do on their own in their team. Try doing a Leo solo.

Sigrun vs Hawks. Range is never that much of a problem in Part 4 except for 4-P maybe. Ive never had trouble with 1 range units in the desert. Hawks have more availabilty, more reliability, more maps, better offense, dont require BEXP rigging for str, have a better mastery. The list goes on.

Lethe vs Mordy: Lethe requires a sizeable BEXP dump in Part 2. And then she has cat gauge issues and her combat and contributions are just plain mediocre throughout. Meanwhile, Mordecai can get a Speedwing and double some things, can OHKO stuff, doesnt require constant babying, has a better gauge and durability for better Enemy Phase exposure. The list goes on and on too.

Pelleas: Fine, you convinced me of this one. Pelleas>Nasir now.

[charlie_]

Someone should try Fiona as their main DB.

[Quintessence]

Even with a drop and BEXP assumed, Leonardo will still have trouble doing anything in 3-6 reliably. He might get lucky and get 3HKO'd, maybe, in a thicket tile. And I told you we are assuming a character pick's worth by analyzing what they can do on their own in their team. Try doing a Leo solo.

I have a Leo solo on the Beorc Draft, at least, for P3, not P1. For P3 he gets 7 turns on 3-6 (where he used concoction 3 times to survive, he had like 31HP and 14Def by 19/8, but nice Sp; he OHKOs beasts with Bowgun:P), 4 turns on 3-12 (or 3, I was lazy to see a possible 3 turn, but I think 4), 2 turns on 3-13. I just need to solo P1 with him, but it'd be something like:

1-P: 5

1-1: 4 (+1)

1-2: 5 + Energy Drop (bonus)

1-3: 6, not 5 cause he can't engage combat on 1 range, and also, the steel fighter might attack him over Miccy, dunno.

1-4: 6, Sothe east, Miccy and Leo west. Shield + Wrath for Miccy, he can kill some beasts with a forge. (+1 and probably Seraph Robe)

1-5: 6

1-6: 6 (+1)

1-7: 5 (+1)

1-8: 7 or 8, I don't know the Miccy and Sothe TC but he can get Celerity and with some positioning he kills enemies on EP. (+1 or +2)

1-9: 4

1-E: 5 (is Miccy and Sothe a natural 5 turn, right?) (¿?)

Shaves like 5 or 6 turns for P1. I haven't done it.

3-6: 7

3-12: 4

3-13: 2 (+dunno, Sothe can take an eternity killing Ike. In my opinion, we should assume 4 turn as the regular TC (Meg and Fiona) cause I don't think Sothe can even kill Ike :/, so this should lead to a +2?)

Shaves for P1 and P3 7 or 8 turns approximately.

Sigrun vs Hawks. Range is never that much of a problem in Part 4 except for 4-P maybe. Ive never had trouble with 1 range units in the desert. Hawks have more availabilty, more reliability, more maps, better offense, dont require BEXP rigging for str, have a better mastery. The list goes on.

I don't know what TC can the hawks get for 4-P and 4-3, but Sigrun helps on getting a 2 and 5 turns, respectively. On Hawk Army, I once had Luchi (Tear+Adept+Wildheart) take the northern enemies and I spent like 9 or even 12 turns, I assume the hawks should get the same TC, as I told I haven't done it with them. Although their 4-5 is decent cause boss killing.

Lethe vs Mordy: Lethe requires a sizeable BEXP dump in Part 2. And then she has cat gauge issues and her combat and contributions are just plain mediocre throughout. Meanwhile, Mordecai can get a Speedwing and double some things, can OHKO stuff, doesnt require constant babying, has a better gauge and durability for better Enemy Phase exposure. The list goes on and on too.

Lethe has better growths than Mordecai, she beats him on everything except Lck and Def...and Hp for 5%. She even gets Str, Sp and Def through BEXP levels. How is her combat plain mediocre? Her bases are bad but with that boost on P2, she comes pretty nice for P3, and can even help killing enemies more reliably on 3-1. I mean, or Mordecai is too high, or Lethe is just too low, but the gap between them equals 3 rounds! Laguz gauge is never an issue when you know how to use them. Exposing them to bunches of enemies isn't convenient unless it's a Royal or Skrimir or a Dragon. Also, if you want a speedwing, then you'll have to take a turn on 1-E or draft a CRK for 2-3 and/or 3-9. Maybe she can get a bit above Ranulf.

Pelleas: Fine, you convinced me of this one. Pelleas>Nasir now.

Also, I have another suggestions:

Tormod > Muarim

They have the same availability, Tormod has 1-2 and 3-10 range, making him useful at shaving turns on 4-4 by breaking doors and stuff. Yes, he needs more BEXP than Muarim but Muarim's stuck with melee combat. He has 32Sp, Rexflame and doubles Auras with Nasir and can help getting rid of Cover Auras dealing nice dmg.

What about Heather > Shinon? Heather can be your main unit on GMs with Forges + Adept + Bane. She requires money but can perform well. Shinon can get Adept + Crossbows in exchange but I don't see him better than her. Shinon is picked first because you have already a main GM but when you lack it, Heather's better than him, imo. There's 3-3, for example.

Don't know if Naesala > Tibarn. Nestling is a good option when everybody else picked flyers, he can get to SS by 4-3 and get a 3 or 2 turn on 4-P and a 6 turn on 4-3.

Kurthnaga > Ena? He can double Ashera with capped Sp and Nasir, or at least above Gareth, or Trolliver.

Lol, poor Mist, shouldn't she be better than Stefan? She can get to 3rd Tier by 3-7 or 3-8 and help being a filler. Actually, well, never mind, she's awful, but I don't know.

Hmm... I see Danved a bit low :s.

EDIT: I want to do a Fiona solo.

It should be like a Miccy & Sothe duo for P1 just shaving a turn on 1-7 with Rescue+Canto+Give. For P3, she might get a 7 or 8 turn for 3-6, like a 3 or 4 turn on 3-12 and a 4 turn on 3-13 (Pass Boots 3rd Tier Fiona o_O). Then, Hawks...

EDIT 2: Lol Fiona Sol'ing Ike with Steel Grtlance hahahaha

EDIT 3: Actually, Fiona can get to 2nd tier by 1-E and get an acceptable sp, at least enough to double mage reinforcements. There's Paragon so she can get to something like 20/4 or 20/5 by the end of 1-E. Her Def should be enough to survive at least one Tiger hit.

Fiona

20/5 - 33.75HP 15Str 10.25Mag 15Skl 20Sp 15.25Lck 17.25Def 14Res

Let's give her a Seraph Robe, an Energy Drop, a Secret Book, an Ashera Icon and a Dracoshield (Damn resources).

20/5 - 40.75Hp 17Str 10.25Mag 17Skl 20Sp 17.25Lck 19.25Def 14Res

Wow, that looks nice for what she was on 1st Tier lol. She can resist 2 or 3 tiger hits with this, but she's stuck on the initial isle on 3-6, she can double them, and with Beastfoe, ORKO them. By the end of 3-6, she might be by 20/9 or 20/10, and probably capped Speed and Resistance, which helps her cap Def by 3-12 Base and get some Str/Hp, Skl and Luck.

She can even get to 3rd Tier by 3-12 and pwn those enemies with that avoid and those defenses. She can even get a good 3 turn. Lol, I'm making an altar for St. Fiona hahahaaha.

Edited August 24, 2012 by Quintessence