Onestep Posted February 15, 2013 Share Posted February 15, 2013 I'm also rather curious how Rightful King stacks up against Aether (mostly from a M!Morgan vs F!Morgan point of view). Personally, Aether > Rightful King. There's too many great constant effect skills to generally be putting more than 1 slot aside for a % based effect that may not trigger. And if you have to do so, then Aether and Luna/Astra make for a better combo than just Astra and Rightful King. I've made my opinion of Lethality known elsewhere. I don't like it, sir. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GinRei Posted February 15, 2013 Share Posted February 15, 2013 Makes sense. Thanks. And yeah, if I were to use Lethality, I'd just use it on a Rightful King Inigo. I want Morgan to be a bubbly little SorcerTank. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goblinaro Posted February 18, 2013 Share Posted February 18, 2013 Inverse's Darkness is so vanishingly rare I haven't even seen one after over 100 hours of play (though I didn't go out of my way to sit at sparkling tiles or use everyone's room as often as possible). Well, seeing as how this thread just started up again, I thought I'd take the time to tell you that I found Aversa's Night/Inverse's Darkness on my fifth playthrough of the English Demo. xD Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PK Gaming Posted February 18, 2013 Share Posted February 18, 2013 Veteran needs to be at the very top its the reason why MU absolutely shits on this game in nearly every difficulty Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bryan Posted February 18, 2013 Author Share Posted February 18, 2013 I like this topic but with NA release it seems a bit confusing with new skills names... And what about despoil ? Especially when you don't want to buy the DLC "gold & silver", good tier ? Keep in mind that this started a couple of months ago and I haven't re updated it yet. To all of the other comments, I'll try to update it soon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Randa Posted February 19, 2013 Share Posted February 19, 2013 Just gonna say this. Gamble should be above worthless. It should be medium. If we take inigo as an example we can very realistically get Gamble: crit+10 Zeal:crit+5 Wrath: crit+20 when under half health. Astra: 5 attacks just wrecks enemies. ( can be replaced with weapon saver so that the sol Kati never runs out) Limit breaker: crit+5 ( and a bunch of other good stats) ( can be replaced with vantage for ultimate half health unit) Sol Kati crit + 50 Before adding skill and support boosts we have a unit with 85 crit and will always attack first with a good chance for Astra or a 90 crit unit. With luck canceling out probably 20-30 of the potential 45 support/stat crit you have over a hundred. I don't know the gamble skill looks like it helps quite a bit especially if you can't get a sol Kati. Just saying mid tier seems a bit better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Othin Posted February 19, 2013 Share Posted February 19, 2013 realistically get Nope. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth_Lavos Posted February 19, 2013 Share Posted February 19, 2013 Idiot question, but does Armsthrift save on Staff usage? Infinite Goddess/Hammerne staves have some major applications if so. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Samias Posted February 19, 2013 Share Posted February 19, 2013 Armsthrift does not work on staves. You don't even equip staves in this game, which is probably why. However, Armsthrift is still a great skill anyway because it saves your forges and legendary weapons. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Randa Posted February 19, 2013 Share Posted February 19, 2013 I didn't say it was easy I said it was realalistic. Meaning it is possible to do in the post game. The major point being that gamble is a bit under rated on the tier. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Othin Posted February 19, 2013 Share Posted February 19, 2013 I didn't say it was easy I said it was realalistic. Meaning it is possible to do in the post game. The major point being that gamble is a bit under rated on the tier. Postgame? You don't waste a skill slot on 5-10% crit in postgame, ever. If postgame alone was even enough to bump a skill that high, anyway. You want a good Sol Katti build? Throw out that Gamble/Zeal/Wrath shit and equip Armsthrift. 25 uses don't last long. Neither does being at half HP if you have any idea what you're doing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Randa Posted February 19, 2013 Share Posted February 19, 2013 Please read the original post I did say that Astra could be replaced with weapon saver. Think about wether you would want to face a unit with 80+ crit or a unit with 50 crit. Assuming luck cancels out your support bonuses and your skill stat. And come up with an actual skill woud be better than that for the sol Katti. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Othin Posted February 19, 2013 Share Posted February 19, 2013 Please read the original post I did say that Astra could be replaced with weapon saver. Think about wether you would want to face a unit with 80+ crit or a unit with 50 crit. Assuming luck cancels out your support bonuses and your skill stat. And come up with an actual skill woud be better than that for the sol Katti. Astra Aether Swordfaire Galeforce Quick Strike All Stats +2 Ignis Deliverer Renewal Resistance +10 Rally Spectrum Rally Speed Rally Love These are just a few of the skills that are better than an extra +10 crit, no matter how much crit you already have. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Samias Posted February 19, 2013 Share Posted February 19, 2013 (edited) I think the point is that Gamble isn't Useless Tier as much as Res+2, Crit+5 or Skill+2 is. It isn't great but you just listed off all the best skills in the game that more or less come from gender-locked or character-locked classes to begin with. Arguably I would rather have Gamble over many of the +2 stat skills or even Hit+20 or Tantivy or Slow Burn. But this tier list is mostly incomplete and is still using Japanese names anyway. There hasn't been any discussion of where to place any of the more unremarkable skills that aren't bad but also aren't outstanding. Edited February 19, 2013 by Samias Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Randa Posted February 19, 2013 Share Posted February 19, 2013 That's why I said mid tier is appropriate. It's not the best it is I agree with every one of the skills you listed being better. But if we think about its not one of the worst skills it's just forgettable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Othin Posted February 19, 2013 Share Posted February 19, 2013 Okay yeah +10 crit definitely isn't worthless. While it doesn't have worthwhile postgame uses, the same goes for a lot of skills. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ponder Posted February 19, 2013 Share Posted February 19, 2013 Dual attacks can crit. This makes Gamble(and Zeal) one of the few skills useful for an offensive support partner. You can turn Henry!Gerome into a 55 strength Berserker with Gamble, Anathema, Axefaire, and whatever 4th and 5th skill you want. Forge him a 15 MT, 45 crit Killer Axe and give whoever he's supporting a quadruple hit weapon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Samias Posted February 20, 2013 Share Posted February 20, 2013 (edited) I'm going to make a rudimentary tier list. I don't exactly have the time/patience to reason every skill but I will have broad definitions of what sort of criteria I'm using for each section. This is mostly a tier list for an average playthrough on Hard mode without absurd combinations of skills. This list will NOT include DLC/Spotpass skills. Feel free to argue away, especially the order. Also feel free to tier the DLC/Spotpass content. God Tier - Amazing no matter how you slice it that break the game: Rally Spectrum Galeforce Veteran Top Tier - Pretty OP skills Axe/Lance/Sword/Bow/Tomebreaker Axe/Lance/Sword/Bow/Tomefaire Armsthrift Aptitude Aether Deliverer Lucky Seven Acrobat High Tier - Noticeably Beneficial skills Ignis Astra Rightful King Rally Speed Sol Lifetaker Renewal Rally Strength/Magic/Movement Pavise/Aegis Discipline Beastbase Wyrmsbane Mid Tier - Situationally Good, or Decent all the time Mov +1 Dual Strike+ Dual Guard+ Anathema Luna Vengeance Rally Defence/Resistance Defender Vantage Lethality Solidarity Patience Counter Pass Speed +2 Quick Burn Avoid +10 Healtouch Underdog Hex Despoil (without Golden Gaffe DLC) Special Dance Locktouch Strength/Magic +2 Gamble Wrath Low Tier - Highly Situational, Filler Miracle Rally Luck Defence/Res + 2 Focus Zeal HP + 5 Prescience Relief Odd Rhythm/Even Rhythm Charm Demoiselle Outdoor Fighter Indoor Fighter Despoil (with Golden Gaffe DLC) Bad Tier - You get a lot more mileage out of everything else... Hit + 20 Rally Skill Tantivy Slow Burn Luck + 4 Dual Support+ Skill + 2 Feel free to disagree. This is obviously centered around my own experience and playstyle. Edited February 21, 2013 by Samias Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Just call me AL Posted February 20, 2013 Share Posted February 20, 2013 (edited) I would probably place Luna someplace above Vengeance, even if only on the basis that Vengeance acts somewhat like a watered-down Resolve. Edited February 20, 2013 by Little Al Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Samias Posted February 20, 2013 Share Posted February 20, 2013 (edited) Alright. I also moved up Avoid+10 because it didn't make sense where I initially put it compared to Patience but that whole of middle tier is a bit of a mess because certain characters make better use of some skills than others. Edited February 20, 2013 by Samias Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Constable Reggie Posted February 20, 2013 Share Posted February 20, 2013 (edited) Does this tier list take into account availability of the skills? Edited February 20, 2013 by Constable Reggie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Randa Posted February 20, 2013 Share Posted February 20, 2013 I would say you over rated despoil. The game gives you a good amount of money anyways. There's also DLC specifically designed to give you money. So I think it should be low tier. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Othin Posted February 20, 2013 Share Posted February 20, 2013 HP +5 at the bottom doesn't make much sense. It actually does something, unlike the others in that tier, and unlike Rally Skill for that matter. Also, I'd push Rally Speed up to Top. Potentially granting double attacks for several team members at once is pretty ridiculous, although I guess it isn't nearly as prominent on Hard as on the higher difficulty levels. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Samias Posted February 20, 2013 Share Posted February 20, 2013 Rally Speed is less useful on Hard than in Lunatic or Lunatic+, but it's definitely the best Rally skill. I moved it up but it's still in High Tier. HP +5 is moved up closer to Def/Res +2. Tantivy was added because I forgot it. Rally Skill was moved down. Considering Unique Utility tier for Healtouch, Locktouch, and Special Dance but Healtouch is sort of doing similar things as Tomefaire so it might just sit in Mid tier regardless. Considering Tomefaire > all other Faire skills, and also Bowbreaker > other breaker skills. Availability is sort of regarded. I'm judging each skill for its individual merit and not necessarily how it stacks with other skills. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Randa Posted February 20, 2013 Share Posted February 20, 2013 I think sol should be above Astra. It has a better activation rate and give enemy phase healing. In the same thought should probably move up life taker above Astra because you get 50% hp and you don't have nerfed attacks no matter how many. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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