FE13 Skills Tier List

[shadykid]

er....am I missing something with Beastbane/Wyrmsbane being that high?

[Randa]

I think their position comes from the fact that the entire vallamese army is beast and you encounter a truck load of dark fliers and griffon riders.

[Just call me AL]

Fliers and Cavaliers are common enemies if I recall correctly.

Edited February 20, 2013 by Little Al

[hinode]

Dual Strike+ and Dual Guard+ should not be so close together if availability is being seriously factored in - L1 Lord vs L15 Great Knight is a huge, huge difference in access time. DS+ feels more useful to me on paper even in a vacuum because I count on Dual Strikes for offense a lot more than Dual Guards for defense, but even if you if you think DG+ is better I can't possibly see it being better enough to close that enormous gap in availability.

[Ponder]

Hmm...

Maribelle!Lucina with Charm(+5 avoid), Demoiselle(+10 avoid), Dual Support(+5 avoid).

MU with Avoid +10, Patience(+10 avoid), Tantivy(+10 avoid).

MU in lead, Lucina as support. No one else near them.

MU has +50 avoidance to all attacks during the enemy turn,from skills alone. S ranked Lucina gives another +10 avoidance. Lucina as a Great Lord gives another huge avoidance increases via +9 speed and luck.

Grima's breath attack had less than a 10% chance to hit on my Lunatic run. All other enemies had 0.

And since MU has Patience, that also means he has Armsthrift, which means forged quadruple hits all day. Quadruple hits means 4 chances for Lucina to help attack, and Lucina comes with the Dual Attack skill(over 90% chance).

Alone, those 6 avoidance skills are terrible, but together?

Worthless on L+, but on Lunatic, this setup deals more damage than Nosferatu and is just as unkillable.

[shadykid]

I think their position comes from the fact that the entire vallamese army is beast and you encounter a truck load of dark fliers and griffon riders.

....in that case shouldn't beastbane be significantly higher than wyrmsbane?

[Constable Reggie]

I think Valmese army = entirely beast is pretty over exaggerated. It probably has an equal amount of armors and the combination of miscellaneous classes. That said, there's a lot of flying beasts in the rest of the game, so it could be offset by that.

Edited February 20, 2013 by Constable Reggie

[Randa]

It was an exaggeration but the point to be made was there was a large enough portion of Calvary to make beast bane a high quality skill. Especially when you can one shot averse with it. For the whole wyrm bane argument it mainly comes in the form of paralogues having an unnatural obsession with them. Another exaggeration but they will appear often enough that it is very worthwhile.

[Constable Reggie]

Beastbane should probably be much higher then (or wyrmsbane much lower), since wyrmsbane affects only wyvern riders/lords (arrows/wind should be fine for them anyway), while beastbane affects a ridiculous number of enemies (the cavalry alone isn't very significant, but added on to all pegasi and gryphons it's pretty absurd). Also, paralogues are optional and you probably won't be getting enough of them to make wyrmsbane significant until after the final chapter anyway.

Edited February 20, 2013 by Constable Reggie

[Sol Hiryu]

Rightful King could probably drop, if only because Lucina and male!Morgan can actually use it to their advantage. Chrom's class selection does not give him the skills he needs to really make full use of it.

Aptitude could probably be bottom of Top/top of High. Great skill, but that requires you to really use Donny. Not that big a deal if you're concentrating on postgame stuff, but not really that great if you're just playing the game. His kids are a different story, but the overall point remains the same.

Beastbane/Wyrmsbane should probably drop because it requires leaving the characters in the Taguel/Manakete class. The Taguel characters want to reclass ASAP, while Wyrmsbane isn't as great as Beastbane, even though Manaketes are a better class.

Should Bowbreaker/Bowfaire drop? I can't really see it being as useful as the other breaker/faire skills given that the people who want it the most can't actually get it without inheritance.

Personally, I think Rally Movement can go up slightly. That 1 extra movement can really help sometimes, but it's not especially crucial.

Edited February 20, 2013 by Sol Hiryu

[Samias]

I split Beastbane and Wyrmsbane, as Beastbane is noticeably better. But both skills are definitely at the top of a taguel/manakete's skill slots for most maps. Cavalry and wyverns are a noticeable chunk of the enemies in the game. I might drop Wyrmsbane down a tier though. They're hard to tier because they're so class-specific, much like Special Dance is specific to Dancer Olivia. Sol got moved over the other HP recovery skills but I'm personally not convinced that it's better than Astra or Rightful King. I moved Tantivy over Slow Burn because you might get use out of Tantivy, but Slow Burn just takes way too damn long to kick in. The argument that stacking Charm+Demoiselle+Dual Support+ did not really change my mind as that whole combination could be skipped over in favour of Lucky Seven, plus Dual Attack+ and Dual Guard+ have a much more tangible effect for the supporter as well. No skill is going to have a negative affect but there are clearly better combinations of skills than others.

[Randa]

One last thing I can't think of a reason that rally luck should be that high.

[OnyxRayquaza]

I think sol should be above Astra. It has a better activation rate and give enemy phase healing. In the same thought should probably move up life taker above Astra because you get 50% hp and you don't have nerfed attacks no matter how many.

Actually, Life Taker's description is very misleading. Even if you kill the opponent, your unit will only regain HP if they are the ones who initiate the attack (i.e only during player phase). Thus, this skill is crap compared to Sol since Sol can activate during both Player and Enemy phases, while Lifetaker only activates during Player phase.

Edited February 20, 2013 by OnyxRayquaza

[Sol Hiryu]

Oh, and why is Charm all the way at the bottom tier? +10 Hit/Avo for just being within three spaces of Chrom is a nice bonus, and it's more than welcome at the time you get it. If anything, Solidarity should probably drop, or Charm should rise to be around it; being right next to the Avatar for Solidarity's bonus is a whole lot different than just being within three spaces of Chrom.

[The Iron Rose]

I'm going to be perfectly honest and say that outside of the rally skills that impact movement, even without grinding my unit's stats were high enough to comfortably overpower basically everyone on hard with little regard to tactics. I found that honestly rally spectrum was almost never useful to me, outside of training child characters.

[Randa]

"

Actually, Life Taker's description is very misleading. Even if you kill the opponent, your unit will only regain HP if they are the ones who initiate the attack (i.e only during player phase). Thus, this skill is crap compared to Sol since Sol can activate during both Player and Enemy phases, while Lifetaker only activates during Player phase.

I know I worded that very poorly. What intended to say was something like sol for enemy phase healin and life taker for player phase. But restoring half health can never be considered crap. Especially if it has a 100% activation rate in comparison to a skill based activation rate.

I don't know what happened. Ah well

Thank you.

Edited February 20, 2013 by Randa

[Othin]

Inserting a "]" at the end of the very first line will fix it.

Edited February 20, 2013 by Othin

[Ponder]

I split Beastbane and Wyrmsbane, as Beastbane is noticeably better. But both skills are definitely at the top of a taguel/manakete's skill slots for most maps. Cavalry and wyverns are a noticeable chunk of the enemies in the game. I might drop Wyrmsbane down a tier though. They're hard to tier because they're so class-specific, much like Special Dance is specific to Dancer Olivia. Sol got moved over the other HP recovery skills but I'm personally not convinced that it's better than Astra or Rightful King. I moved Tantivy over Slow Burn because you might get use out of Tantivy, but Slow Burn just takes way too damn long to kick in. The argument that stacking Charm+Demoiselle+Dual Support+ did not really change my mind as that whole combination could be skipped over in favour of Lucky Seven, plus Dual Attack+ and Dual Guard+ have a much more tangible effect for the supporter as well. No skill is going to have a negative affect but there are clearly better combinations of skills than others.

Lucky 7 has no effect in the support role so it takes up another one of MU's skill slots. It also requires MU to gain more XP to reach the skill.

Lucina can have Charm, Demoiselle, Dual Support(inherited), Dual Attack and be promoted to Great Lord in 1-2 chapters after obtaining her.

[Samias]

Uh... that is Lucina spending 10 levels at least as a troubadour, and then would require another 10 levels at least to get back to Great Lord you know... That is not 2 chapters worth of levels. Charm could go up but you are arguing for some pretty bland skills otherwise.

[OnyxRayquaza]

I know I worded that very poorly. What intended to say was something like sol for enemy phase healin and life taker for player phase. But restoring half health can never be considered crap. Especially if it has a 100% activation rate in comparison to a skill based activation rate.

I don't know what happened. Ah well

I'm not saying that Lifetaker is a crap skill in itself. To me however, it just feels lackluster compared to Sol, where the skill heals you while dealing damage and is not restricted to phases. And even though Sol has a % based activation rate, it will activate fairly often considering how most units who get it have a high Skill stat cap(around the low-high 40s).

[Shadow Mir]

With regard to Lifetaker, does it restore half the health the enemy had at the time before dying or half the user's max health?

[Samias]

50% of the user's max HP. So it is a great way of healing on the player phase but does nothing for the enemy phase, whereas Sol heals half the damage you deal as an in-battle activation. They are both pretty good skills.

Going out for dinner. Will update later.

[Ponder]

Uh... that is Lucina spending 10 levels at least as a troubadour, and then would require another 10 levels at least to get back to Great Lord you know... That is not 2 chapters worth of levels. Charm could go up but you are arguing for some pretty bland skills otherwise.

A troubador doesn't need kills to level up. You can pop a second seal in the middle of a battle. You can easily do Lord ---> Troubador ---> Lord in a single chapter(you can purchase rescue staves in Chapter 12). At this point, your internal level is 9 against mostly level 15-25 enemies. How many chapters you need to reach level 1 Great Lord depends on the chapter and how aggressive the enemies are. You shouldn't need more than 2 chapters at max.

Edit: heck, if you have money to burn on tons of rescue staves you can even go Lord ---> Troubador ---> Valkyrie ---> Great Lord

Edited February 20, 2013 by Ponder

[Just call me AL]

Rightful King could probably drop, if only because Lucina and male!Morgan can actually use it to their advantage. Chrom's class selection does not give him the skills he needs to really make full use of it.

Wouldn't Lucina's mother have to be either Robin or Olivia for her to take full advantage of Rightful King? On that note, what about Chrom!Inigo?

[SilentSentinel]

Depends on what you want to use Lucina for. Simply from Chrom's classes she has access to Pavise, Aegis, Luna, and Aether, all of which benefit from Rightful King.