Raven Posted November 6, 2012 Share Posted November 6, 2012 I don't live in the USA, but I doubt I'd vote anyway. Where I live, no matter who I'd vote for, the same party would win time after time. Some people say, "You didn't vote, you have no right to complain." These people deserve a slap to the eyeball. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Momo Posted November 6, 2012 Share Posted November 6, 2012 Once again, a vote is not just saying who you want to win, it's telling them you exist are significant enough to be appealed to. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrashGordon94 Posted November 6, 2012 Share Posted November 6, 2012 You do know there are more candidates than just Obama and Romney, right? I mean, just because they don't get as much media coverage doesn't mean they don't exist. also, there are other things to vote on So? Because by not voting, you are essentially telling the government that you do not matter. It lets them do whatever they want without fear you'll vote against them. Bullshit. If you DO vote, it doesn't make a difference, they aren't going to be freaked out by some apathetic person voting for something they don't want. And why should I or anyone else bother when there are no good options? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ein Posted November 6, 2012 Share Posted November 6, 2012 When did I run out of apple juice?! Oh wait. There's some right here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrightBow Posted November 6, 2012 Share Posted November 6, 2012 Thanks for reminding me that I still have to get some apple juice this evening. Btw, what's the usual participation quote for this election? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rehab Posted November 6, 2012 Share Posted November 6, 2012 (edited) Crash, aside from people who get freaked out that anybody could possibly choose not to vote for their candidate, no, people generally aren't going to freak out about one person's decision to skip voting, but I have commonly heard people act or talk like, or even directly say that non-voters effectively don't exist, in a way that to me sounds disturbingly similar to saying minorities (which, far as voting blocs go, non-voters kinda are) effectively don't exist. Which can drive me a mite bit crazy if I let it, but for their purposes, it makes some sense- if an individual doesn't vote on something when the chance comes up, it can be hard and bordering on impossible for the group to tell whether that individual, say, believes the vote is flawed in their specific situation, as can be the case with the electoral college, or! Whether they don't care about the vote because they don't care to involve themselves in the existing political process. The latter can lead to whoever is getting elected, or whoever wants somebody elected, or even somebody watching, to conclude that they don't have to appeal to or "govern for" that individual, as in they can do whatever they want and not care what that person thinks. That can add up to a rather unfortunate amount of people that "don't exist." The comparison's doubtless far from perfect, but this can be similar to any minority entity's situation. Admittedly, on some levels it can be personally comforting for me to vote on party lines, just to know I've aligned myself with an entity that supposedly has the power and interest to get something done, but when they're not doing what's in my interest, if I don't vote at all, I'm effectively being silent about it. And then it's way too easy for them, not to mention everybody else, to ignore not just me as a potential vote, but my interests, too. Issues that I consider in my interest, that is, not just what's directly "good for me." "Why does the [insert issue or party] never [check all that apply: get somebody elected/make a difference on an issue/get anything done]?" "Simple- nobody votes for them/on it." And because "nobody votes for it," "nobody cares." It's a messed up situation when a person can conclude, correct or not, that their vote has no immediate influence over an election, but doing so just makes it easier for whoever the system picks to get more power with less effort and care, and at that point it seems to me that the point of even having a democracy starts to get lost. So IMO if you avoid voting for somebody who represents your interests on the grounds that they have no real chance of winning then you basically go from being a statistical footnote with ideas to *BOOP* gone okay NOW I hereby ban myself from editing this post further for real Edited November 6, 2012 by Rehab Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Original Alear Posted November 6, 2012 Share Posted November 6, 2012 (edited) Voting isn't either the bare minimum act of participation in politics, nor is it anywhere close to the most that most people here could do. Nor is participation in politics a sign that someone is worth appealing to - someone who votes dem every election (if there actually is a record that goes back for a few elections) is probably almost as unimportant for a politician to appeal to as someone who has had several opportunities to vote and never does (esp. if you're an incumbent). Maybe less important. Depends. So IMO if you avoid voting for somebody who represents your interests on the grounds that they have no real chance of winning then you basically go from being a statistical footnote with ideas to *BOOP* gone I don't think any voter is a statistical footnote - or rather, I don't think that they are one by virtue of voting. We simply don't have the time to compile that many footnotes. If you disagree, why don't you show me the statistical footnotes that represent your individual vote in past elections you've voted in (note: not the exit polls, you can falsely represent yourself there). As far as I'm concerned, there's no way for me to tell that you care to involve yourself in the existing political process by voting - and I certainly have no evidence that you are a particularly good representation of a voting bloc there's any value in appealing to. What I think you do do by voting, is you might make a (very small piece of an) impact on the importance of your state in the election. And, more generally, if everyone voted, it would probably change the categories that we use to figure out "blocs" of voters that politicians should appeal to (well, that's assuming voter participation is not evenly distributed among "blocs" or whatever). Edited November 6, 2012 by L1049 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrashGordon94 Posted November 6, 2012 Share Posted November 6, 2012 Rehab, you completely missed the point, I'm talking about no5 voting due to not liking ANY of the choices whatsoever. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rehab Posted November 7, 2012 Share Posted November 7, 2012 (edited) Took me a bit to realize I didn't quite cover that, but there are actually quite a lot of non-Obamney candidates for president on the ballot in many states, you just very near literally never hear about them, which shows how badly the parties dwarf them in money and votes spent. In this case you're forgiven for not knowing all the U.S.' non-party candidates, but in general if you don't see a candidate who represents you well enough to have a clean conscience in voting for them, you either probably aren't looking hard enough or you're voting less for one candidate to win than for another to lose Getting to SeverIan's point later because I'm inevitably going to drag it out Edited November 7, 2012 by Rehab Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrashGordon94 Posted November 7, 2012 Share Posted November 7, 2012 Or maybe because there aren't any that represent you, ever thought about that? This point isn't just for this election either. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Book of Ereshkigal Posted November 7, 2012 Share Posted November 7, 2012 I support the 'all of these candidates suck' option. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rehab Posted November 7, 2012 Share Posted November 7, 2012 (edited) What do you want in a candidate that you can't find anywhere? If it includes a realistic shot at being elected (in the U.S.) by tomorrow, you're being too limited See: A site which contains a flawed but at least potentially thought-provoking questionnaire that tries to compare your stances on various issues, and their importance to you, with the stances of a bunch of U.S. presidential candidates Supposedly the full list of our candidates I admit I don't know as much as I should about all the candidates' positions (still gonna pass that registration fuckup off as the reason), but if you can take the time to give your attention to all that, or to an equivalent amount of information relevant to whatever other election, and still not find anybody running you could say would represent your interests, I'll be, uh, impressed. And curious. All that's not to say you should agree with everything a candidate does or says, so you still need to do some kinda decision-making triage and find who most sounds like they're most for what's most important to you, because that's all you can really do in a democracy without running yourself. Or going activist or something I mean gimme a break Edited November 7, 2012 by Rehab Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Parrhesia Posted November 7, 2012 Share Posted November 7, 2012 A site which contains a flawed but at least potentially thought-provoking questionnaire that tries to compare your stances on various issues, and their importance to you, with the stances of a bunch of U.S. presidential candidates Nice test. I particularly liked the 97% to 90% to 61% to 1% party split. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uguu Posted November 7, 2012 Share Posted November 7, 2012 oh no http://puu.sh/1noWw http://puu.sh/1noXs Look at how much I agree with Mitt ;_; Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Momo Posted November 7, 2012 Share Posted November 7, 2012 Considering how many times he changed his position on things, that's bound to happen. Don't worry your little head over it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raven Posted November 7, 2012 Share Posted November 7, 2012 Candidates you side with... 73% Barack Obama Democrat on science, healthcare, social, and environmental issues 69% Mitt Romney Republican on immigration, foreign policy, environmental, and social issues 66% Jill Stein Green on domestic policy, science, and economic issues 65% Gary Johnson Libertarian on science and environmental issues 43% Rocky Anderson Justice on domestic policy and economic issues 37% Virgil Goode Constitution on environmental and social issues 55% American Voters on domestic policy, science, healthcare, social, environmental, and economic issues. Well then, GG Obama. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrashGordon94 Posted November 7, 2012 Share Posted November 7, 2012 What do you want in a candidate that you can't find anywhere? EVERYTHING. Do I have to say it again? I'm not talking just about this election! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Book of Ereshkigal Posted November 7, 2012 Share Posted November 7, 2012 (edited) EVERYTHING. Do I have to say it again? I'm not talking just about this election! Which is why you can't find a candidate :D Edited November 7, 2012 by L95 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrashGordon94 Posted November 7, 2012 Share Posted November 7, 2012 Yes, so I don't vote ever. Why should I bother to ever vote when they never have worthwhile options? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rehab Posted November 7, 2012 Share Posted November 7, 2012 aside: the only reason I said flawed was the last time I took it, it said I was 90+% Obama and slightly-less % Stein, but when I looked at the issues my results seemed to match her more <_< probably within a reasonable margin of error at worst, though Ok Crash, I admit I was getting pushy, but I really think that's a sad outlook, and it makes me curious what a candidate would have to do to get your vote. I half don't see the point in putting you on the spot and demanding an answer, but if you're not going to vote ever, I'm afraid you're not really doing yourself or anything you care about any favors. I come from a bunch of political carehards, if not tryhards, so maybe that's just my bias talking, though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrashGordon94 Posted November 7, 2012 Share Posted November 7, 2012 aside: the only reason I said flawed was the last time I took it, it said I was 90+% Obama and slightly-less % Stein, but when I looked at the issues my results seemed to match her more <_< probably within a reasonable margin of error at worst, though Ok Crash, I admit I was getting pushy, but I really think that's a sad outlook, and it makes me curious what a candidate would have to do to get your vote. Good question, not sure if I have an answer... A lot has to do with my general hatred of Politics though, it's deceitful, dishonest, legalistic, bureaucratic and ruins the world. And that shit is in all the options! :/ I half don't see the point in putting you on the spot and demanding an answer, but if you're not going to vote ever, I'm afraid you're not really doing yourself or anything you care about any favors. I come from a bunch of political carehards, if not tryhards, so maybe that's just my bias talking, though. And I WOULD be helping them by voting for a bad option? HOW? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ein Posted November 7, 2012 Share Posted November 7, 2012 You could always not vote. Your decision man. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrashGordon94 Posted November 7, 2012 Share Posted November 7, 2012 ...That was the choice I picked, did you read what I was actually saying? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Book of Ereshkigal Posted November 7, 2012 Share Posted November 7, 2012 XD Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrashGordon94 Posted November 7, 2012 Share Posted November 7, 2012 What? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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