List every character who...

[Loki Laufeyson]

There's so many wrong things in this paragraph that I dont even know where to start >_>. First, Calill competes with Marcia, a flier in the CRK chapters that will be more useful than her in the longterm. So Calill isnt exactly looking hot now, is she? Soren easily caps Mag Skl Res if trained and will cap Spd in an instant, how is that having spd problems? Calill's BEXP situation is worse as none of her stats are close to capping. And Calill will never be able to 1 turn 2-E what are you even talking about? Unless you magically get a max mag Calill through BEXP and rig a crit or something. The best Ive gotten with Calill was a 3 turn after BEXPfeeding her every single ounce of Part 2 BEXP. Do note that you got guys like Haar, Nealuchi, Marcia+Brom Hammer and Elincia who can 1 TURN the map without taking every single ounce of your BEXP. Soren does not need Adept to kill things. Anyway, at least he actually EXISTS unlike her and can be a decent to good unit with favoritism. Attacking with 1-2 range, sieging, Celerity + Innate Adept, shovable by almost everyone and their mom. Sure, if you dont USE him, he's bad. But guess what? If you are assuming you are not using a unit, then you are sandbagging the unit. Do note that Soren SOLOS of Part 3 have been done before, that he's one of the easiest users of BEXP ever, that he has a lot of resources to fall back on if you choose to use him, and hes not exactly looking so bad then, huh?

He IS one of the easiest to BEXP next to Nephenee. That is true, but he gets there hella quicker with transfers. Seeing how i use this guy all the freaking time, i do know how he is on average. Soren does need some love, however, so i can see why people are all "ehhh." But i do agree that assuming that unit isnt getting used is kinda silly. Why assume? People play different ways. How is Soren competing with Haar when Haar is like, killing junk regardless of whos being used? Har. Srsly, ive never had Haar fall behind because of using other units. Soren is likely to cap speed before promotion. (its after that gets a little sketchy but hes not really hurting for speed as much as people think.) He only really needs Adept to start with. After he gets going, he really doesnt need it anymore. Calill's speed does rise a little quicker but her magic doesnt. She is gonna be Elfiring it up until part 4.

As for Ilyana...ehhh. Shes got issues. Like really really bad speed. Even Tormod is beating her at that.

[Dr. Silent]

^ Not really. The guy will stop doubling with his awful spd cap and will be stuck to 25 spd for a long while after promo. It doesnt help that most of the coming chapters are Paladin hate. So he never gets to be good.

@ Vicious Sal- I do tend to evaluate units in a vacuum because of drafts. Anyway, CRK's budget and resources are far more tight than the GMs most of the time, so Calill getting BEXP over Marcia is just as unlikely as Soren getting BEXP over other GMs.

If that's the case, we could also say that Titania and Oscar aren't much good...

Titania's base Spd is poor for her level. She probably won't cap it before promotion. Unless you kill enemies with her frequently early on to level her up, as opposed to using the early chapters to train up other units, then you'll be surprised at how little she double-attacks mid-Part 3. In if we're comparing to Kieran, her Spd cap is one point higher, and her HP and Defence are much worse (I find her too fragile to use on Hard mode).

As for Oscar, I've already mentioned him. But if you have a problem with Kieran's bad Spd cap, then just remember that Oscar's Str and Spd caps are BOTH pretty damn bad. So yeah, he will stop doubling, and/or won't be strong enough to ORKO much (although that's pretty much Oscar's story in the entire game, so...).

Most of the upcoming chapters are 'Paladin-hate'? 3-11? Nah. 3-E? Nope. Stick him in Tibarn's team...4-2? Not really. 4-5? Given that most of the enemies are going to be fought on the island you start out on...no. 4-E? Nope.

[Shadow Mir]

If that's the case, we could also say that Titania and Oscar aren't much good...

Titania's base Spd is poor for her level. She probably won't cap it before promotion. Unless you kill enemies with her frequently early on to level her up, as opposed to using the early chapters to train up other units, then you'll be surprised at how little she double-attacks mid-Part 3. In if we're comparing to Kieran, her Spd cap is one point higher, and her HP and Defence are much worse (I find her too fragile to use on Hard mode).

As for Oscar, I've already mentioned him. But if you have a problem with Kieran's bad Spd cap, then just remember that Oscar's Str and Spd caps are BOTH pretty damn bad. So yeah, he will stop doubling, and/or won't be strong enough to ORKO much (although that's pretty much Oscar's story in the entire game, so...).

Most of the upcoming chapters are 'Paladin-hate'? 3-11? Nah. 3-E? Nope. Stick him in Tibarn's team...4-2? Not really. 4-5? Given that most of the enemies are going to be fought on the island you start out on...no. 4-E? Nope.

Tsk tsk tsk. Titania starts off much closer to promotion than Kieran does, for one. And what's it matter that Titania won't cap speed when - le gaspe - neither is Kieran?! By the way, Titania's spees cap is 2 points higher than Kieran's. As for Oscar, aside from his speed cap, forges exist.

Edited November 16, 2012 by Golden Cucco

[Dr. Silent]

Tsk tsk tsk. Titania starts off much closer to promotion than Kieran does, for one. And what's it matter that Titania won't cap speed when - le gaspe - neither is Kieran?! By the way, Titania's spees cap is 2 points higher than Kieran's. As for Oscar, aside from his speed cap, forges exist.

Have you actually used Kieran? Ever? And did you even bother reading my last post? RD mechanics force at least one stat to increase per level up. Once Kieran caps HP, Str, Def and Skl, his Spd will increase during most levels up.

I've used Kieran in four playthroughs (two Normal, two Hard). Each time he has capped Spd. Both tiers. And unlike Titania, he can actually survive more than three hits. Please, don't bother arguing against a character you clearly haven't used all that much.

Forges exist. Funds don't. Oscar's stuck in the team that has bugger all cash throughout the whole game. Same could be said for forges for...just about anyone, really.

Edited November 16, 2012 by Dr. Silent

[Shadow Mir]

Have you actually used Kieran? Ever? And did you even bother reading my last post? RD mechanics force at least one stat to increase per level up. Once Kieran caps HP, Str, Def and Skl, his Spd will increase during most levels up.

I've used Kieran in four playthroughs (two Normal, two Hard). Each time he has capped Spd. Both tiers. And unlike Titania, he can actually survive more than three hits. Please, don't bother arguing against a character you clearly haven't used all that much.

Forges exist. Funds don't. Oscar's stuck in the team that has bugger all cash throughout the whole game. Same could be said for forges for...just about anyone, really.

I have. And he wasn't anywhere near "easily the best investment", as you claimed he was. I wouldn't expect Kieran to get any real mileage out of BEXP in second tier, as by the time he caps something besides HP, third tier's practically right around the corner. Also, Kieran's biorhythm wave is another detractor - in a game where biorhythm can affect your performance, a wave like Kieran's is do not want. And to turn your own words against you, why should I bother with Kieran when Jill, Haar and Titania are easily better? And I'm also beginning to wonder if you've used Titania (or Marcia, for that matter) that much. As for the funds comment, I remember seeing something about "the Greil Mercenaries are not poor".

Edited November 16, 2012 by Golden Cucco

[PKL]

The Greil Mercenaries are far from being poor >_>. And lol Titania having bad durability. That's a new one.

[Anouleth]

Kieran's durability is so much better than Titania's. I mean, he only needs to gain twice as many levels as her in half a third as many chapters, and suddenly he has an earth-shattering SEVEN more HP than her!

Edited November 16, 2012 by Anouleth

[Silith]

If we assume Kieran has gotten 5 levels in the 2 chapters he's in before he joins the GM in 3-11 and Titania has gained nothing at all (putting them at equal levels)

The average statistic differences between him and her would be.

HP +8

Str -1

Mag -3 (no one cares though)

Lck -2

Def +1

Res -2

All in all Kieran will be slightly bulkier while having slightly less offense. But Why would Titania be base level? She has had 9 chapters to grow and should at the least be hitting T3 by now. On a side note both 2-3 and 3-9 are pretty short chapters and giving 5 levels on kieran in them is very generous.

[ClLoulD]

If we assume Kieran has gotten 5 levels in the 2 chapters he's in before he joins the GM in 3-11 and Titania has gained nothing at all (putting them at equal levels)

The average statistic differences between him and her would be.

HP +8

Str -1

Mag -3 (no one cares though)

Lck -2

Def +1

Res -2

All in all Kieran will be slightly bulkier while having slightly less offense. But Why would Titania be base level? She has had 9 chapters to grow and should at the least be hitting T3 by now. On a side note both 2-3 and 3-9 are pretty short chapters and giving 5 levels on kieran in them is very generous.

Don't worry, Kieran isn't going to make the list, he was arguably one of the best units in PoR his RD self is nowhere near as useful.

[Dr. Silent]

I have. And he wasn't anywhere near "easily the best investment", as you claimed he was. I wouldn't expect Kieran to get any real mileage out of BEXP in second tier, as by the time he caps something besides HP, third tier's practically right around the corner. Also, Kieran's biorhythm wave is another detractor - in a game where biorhythm can affect your performance, a wave like Kieran's is do not want. And to turn your own words against you, why should I bother with Kieran when Jill, Haar and Titania are easily better? And I'm also beginning to wonder if you've used Titania (or Marcia, for that matter) that much. As for the funds comment, I remember seeing something about "the Greil Mercenaries are not poor".

Jill and Haar are much better than all of them. There's no argument there.

Titania I have used. She was very useful in Normal, but didn't like her in Hard. Like I said...somewhere above, she can't take enough hits and doesn't dodge reliably enough, and her base stats for her level aren't great. I found her to be useless in 4-4, too. Truth be told, I didn't think Kieran was much better in Hard mode. These days I prefer not to use Paladins in Hard mode after Part 3 ends, except as backup if necessary.

Marcia I have tried twice. The first time she turned out quite well, but I got the impression that I may as well have just trained up Tanith as she's less effort. The second time she got Str screwed really badly, so I'd pretty much wasted my time.

[Shadow Mir]

Marcia I have tried twice. The first time she turned out quite well, but I got the impression that I may as well have just trained up Tanith as she's less effort. The second time she got Str screwed really badly, so I'd pretty much wasted my time.

When it comes down to it, I consider Marcia better overall, considering Tanith's underwhelming base speed (23 at a point where you start seeing quite a bit of stuff that 23 AS isn't enough to double).

[Loki Laufeyson]

Marcia has the horrible tendency to get Strength screwed. D: But like Cucco said, Tanith's base speed can suck pretty hard.

[Silith]

One could say that Tanith and marcia need about the same resources (energy drop vs a speedwing) to become a usefull asset to your team. Were it not that Marcia has only 4 short chapters to catch up in level before Tanith joins at a much higher level. Tanith can either Paragon 1-2 chapters or eat an early crown to get to tier 3 as long as she gets a wing whiel marcia will want a drop for some more str and still can get screwed over by RNG on level-ups.

A level 16 (T2) Marcia will pretty mcuh outclass base Tanith on everythign but 1 point of str but look at the chapters Marcia is in.

2-P can give her about 1.5 levels if you focuss on her.

2-3 can give her a level.

2-F can give her half a level? I know it's stretching it but there is so little time on this one.

3-9 can give her about 1.5 levels if you dfocuss.

Let's give her even more benefit of the doubt by saying she gets 5 levels during those 4 chapters. A level 10 Marcia will underperform harshly even with the drops. So what options do we have.

BEXP? She hasn't capped anythign yet so BEXP will just hurt her growth especially her Str growth being the lowest after Magic.

Crown at 10? She hasn't got anything capped yet. She'll have 22 Str and 25 speed which is mediocre (counted in a drop) especially seeing as the same amount of resources (wing instead of drop) would put Tanith at 23 str and 27 Speed.

Funny enough I'm now seeing anew side to Sigrun as well. If we give her those same resources (Drop and Crown) she's actually pretty decent. 23 str and 26 spd is nothing to scoff at. I realise she doesn't grow enough after that. It's a pitty her spd growth is so crappy. Even after Lck and Skil are capped she'll still get HP, Str and Res only on level-ups. But her base stats make her pretty decent.

Edited November 19, 2012 by Silith

[Shadow Mir]

One could say that Tanith and marcia need about the same resources (energy drop vs a speedwing) to become a usefull asset to your team. Were it not that Marcia has only 4 short chapters to catch up in level before Tanith joins at a much higher level. Tanith can either Paragon 1-2 chapters or eat an early crown to get to tier 3 as long as she gets a wing whiel marcia will want a drop for some more str and still can get screwed over by RNG on level-ups.

A level 16 (T2) Marcia will pretty mcuh outclass base Tanith on everythign but 1 point of str but look at the chapters Marcia is in.

2-P can give her about 1.5 levels if you focuss on her.

2-3 can give her a level.

2-F can give her half a level? I know it's stretching it but there is so little time on this one.

3-9 can give her about 1.5 levels if you dfocuss.

Let's give her even more benefit of the doubt by saying she gets 5 levels during those 4 chapters. A level 10 Marcia will underperform harshly even with the drops. So what options do we have.

BEXP? She hasn't capped anythign yet so BEXP will just hurt her growth especially her Str growth being the lowest after Magic.

Crown at 10? She hasn't got anything capped yet. She'll have 22 Str and 25 speed which is mediocre (counted in a drop) especially seeing as the same amount of resources (wing instead of drop) would put Tanith at 23 str and 27 Speed.

Funny enough I'm now seeing anew side to Sigrun as well. If we give her those same resources (Drop and Crown) she's actually pretty decent. 23 str and 26 spd is nothing to scoff at. I realise she doesn't grow enough after that. It's a pitty her spd growth is so crappy. Even after Lck and Skil are capped she'll still get HP, Str and Res only on level-ups. But her base stats make her pretty decent.

You gotta admit, though, a speedwing is far more contested than an energy drop...

[Silith]

Is it? You get 3 by the point yo get tanith.

1 is for Haar with no contest.

I believe there was another character that became much better with a wing (was it tits?)

Leaving you 1 more wing.

For the drop people seem to just slap it on Mia and get boners for her. To me that seems like such a waste. But I guess it's less contested indeed.

[ClLoulD]

Is it? You get 3 by the point yo get tanith.

1 is for Haar with no contest.

I believe there was another character that became much better with a wing (was it tits?)

Leaving you 1 more wing.

For the drop people seem to just slap it on Mia and get boners for her. To me that seems like such a waste. But I guess it's less contested indeed.

I never know who to give the energy drops to but I wouldn't put it on Mia as she isn't going to be 0RKO anything with it anyway and besides she caps strength nearly every playthrough unless you get ridiculously RNG screwed, anyway going back to the speedwing Issue wouldn't it be more worthwhile giving the last speedwing to someone like Soren or Boyd who can contribute more than someone like Tanith?

Edited November 20, 2012 by ClLoulD

[Silith]

Err I was thinking HM. Soren isn't going to dive into enemies anytime and while Boyd is good when he gets over that speedbumb he cannot compete with flying utility. (or that earth afgfinity)

[Anouleth]

I never know who to give the energy drops to but I wouldn't put it on Mia as she isn't going to be 0RKO anything with it anyway and besides she caps strength nearly every playthrough unless you get ridiculously RNG screwed, anyway going back to the speedwing Issue wouldn't it be more worthwhile giving the last speedwing to someone like Soren or Boyd who can contribute more than someone like Tanith?

In what way do Soren or Boyd contribute more than Tanith?

[ClLoulD]

In what way do Soren or Boyd contribute more than Tanith?

I just think Tanith comes in rather late and even if you decide to put her in the desert chapter where her flying utility would have an impact I just find it's littered with too many bow wielders for her to have too much of an impact. Tibarns group seems to be full of people needing experience and Ike's group I like to use to train Jill. I just think I would rather train Boyd or Soren than Tanith not to say that is the best choice though.

Edited November 20, 2012 by ClLoulD

[Anouleth]

I just think Tanith comes in rather late and even if you decide to put her in the desert chapter where her flying utility would have an impact I just find it's littered with too many bow wielders for her to have too much of an impact.

Believe me when I say you can pack your team with flying units and not have any problem with the desert, because the bow wielders are all in a clump at the bottom of the map where they're easy to avoid.

Tibarns group seems to be full of people needing experience and Ike's group I like to use to train Jill. I just think I would rather train Boyd or Soren than Tanith not to say that is the best choice though.

Lateness isn't really an issue, though. I mean, the Speedwing shows up in 3-9, so it's not like you have to hold on for it for a while to use it on Tanith.

[Loki Laufeyson]

For the drop people seem to just slap it on Mia and get boners for her. To me that seems like such a waste. But I guess it's less contested indeed.

They do? Mia rarely even needs a Drop. Forges work fine for her. Marcia gets claim to the Drop in my runs. Fiona and/or Lyre too if im actually using them. If im not, I give them to people who are just shy of capping strength for the lulz.

[Dr. Silent]

I just think Tanith comes in rather late and even if you decide to put her in the desert chapter where her flying utility would have an impact I just find it's littered with too many bow wielders for her to have too much of an impact. Tibarns group seems to be full of people needing experience and Ike's group I like to use to train Jill. I just think I would rather train Boyd or Soren than Tanith not to say that is the best choice though.

Their grand total of 2 possible movement spaces isn't going to be anything for Tanith to worry about. She can hit and run like a boss.

Just let Jill/Haar take out the guys with Bowguns or whatever.

Also, why would you put Jill in Ike's group?

[MacLovin]

Ike, Jill, TItania.

Fuck everything else for not being AS good as these three in both games.

Oscar turned into god in fe9, he's merely "pretty good" here.

Boyd is still similar overall.

SHinon improved.

Rofl

Mia, Gatrie, and Zihark got better.

lolfuckIllyana, Marcia, CRK, Soren and Tanith together as well as Lethe/TOrmod/Mordy/Muarim/Neph.

Brom got better, and has some more use in p2.

Haar turned into god.

Sothe took steroids

[Dr. Silent]

^Actually, I thought Brom was better in PoR. He was a good tank (Easy/Normal).

[MacLovin]

Except for the fact that fe9 was easy to the point of not needing tanks?

Fe6, I can understand the need-fe9 EM/NM/HM needing a low move tank?

Oh well.

Brom is slightly more useful in fe10 p2, due to soaking up hits in HM.

Because, in his first two chapters, he's one of the 2 units with decent durability (Nealuchi is the other one) and Mordy is a defense god(lol32base)

He's also on the team with alot of resources.