Elieson Posted December 19, 2012 Share Posted December 19, 2012 That's correct, Manix and I aren't voting, and Scorri isn't self-voting. Considering the circumstances, and rebuttals, in shifting towards Kay being a more likely candidate of being scum, since her thoughts on dead Fakeclaims haven't changed one bit, and that was her primary case against Scorri to begin with. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elieson Posted December 19, 2012 Share Posted December 19, 2012 Scorri, Kay. Look at each others votes against Baldrick and Helios. Manix, Bal, you too I have a feeling proof is in there, I'll be putting together a case on that in the meantime. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elieson Posted December 19, 2012 Share Posted December 19, 2012 9. Person with the most votes is lynched at the end of the day phase on D1 only. After D1, it'll take at least one-third of the living players to lynch, rounding UP. If someone amasses half the living player's votes, rounded up, I'll give them a three-hour grace period. I believe in last words. 9a. If at the end of any day phase, the number of people not voting at phase end exceeds the majority vote, OR at least one-third of the game, rounded DOWN has not voted, the game will end with a universal loss. If you're gonna sign up, you'd best be arsed to play the game. Is Elie being counted as not voting? If so, does Elie have the ability to vote? Because if he doesn't I'm not sure why he'd be counted. Otherwise, there are 9 people left in the game, which means 1/3 is 3 people. We have 2 people not voting (not counting Elie) and 5 people voting for Baldrick. I mean, I can: ##Unvote ##Vote:Baldrick but that doesn't really change anything. Votes for Baldrick for ehhhhhhhhh not really any reason other than to prevent universal loss. However, she addressed me and my capabilities to vote. I couldn't post or vote in thread, but I didn't even know that my vote was useless until Bald's flip. Worth noticing. And yet another attempt at an easy mislynch begins. I'll be the first to admit that I've not played my best. But lets see. a) I'm not exactly "jumping on you" for no reason. I talked some last phase about how I found you suspicious and was in fact voting you for a good bit of that. I don't see a problem with me saying that I was planning on voting you at the start of phase when I'd been voting you for most of last phase. b) Why is it out of the question that both of our claims are true? Kay's claiming to have a cop ability and a type of tracker ability. And yet we have an accepted cop and a proven tracker. What's wrong with having multiple of the same ability? I thought we had gone over this yesterday when I claimed. Just because a JoAT has an ability doesn't mean no one else can. c) The SB lynch. Which you were voting for. In fact, you were one of the main advocates of that lynch. And you ignored the case that Shinori and Manix provided then. And yet, now that you're suddenly about to be lynched, you just find it awfully convincing. Convenient that, eh? Yeah, I'm perfectly ok with this lynch especially after seeing that attempt to get another easy mislynch. ##Vote:Helios Votes Helios because of a post that she finds from a while back, even though she addressed me and several others on the same day before voting Helios for that particular case. Also votes after several others jump down his throat, but I don't know how timing really reflects that. Not much in her argument from her earlier day posting is reflected in her later vote. ##Unvote ##Vote: Baldrick Start making sense, or die. (because I realized I'm dumb and forgot my PR all game) Votes for Baldrick for ehhhhhhhh, but at least hints at a reason? I'm not voting for Helios unless the only other lynch possibility is me. Also, I'd say scorri seems scummier than zak, for the moment. And never even voted for Helios. If I ISO'd correctly, never voted at all during that phase. Also, looking back. Helios addressed scorri as more likely to be scum quite a bit, and voted for her over Kay with his dying breath. He also left these gems behind (chronological order). Oh I completely forgot about the redirector. I guess that does kinda pseudoclear Elieson. The point I was trying to make was moreso "get your shit together son" than "you're scum aren't you". I know this isn't really a strong reason but I feel Bal is town because he sounds sincere in what he does. And then there's meta too. I just think he hasn't been active enough to really do much. I'd prefer Kay or Kaoz to be lynched over him. And of course I'm not sure why scum would target Paperblade because I'm pretty sure out of a group of people someone would say it's a bad idea. That sounds like it was his action and not a group action. Bal, who do you want to vote for and why? ##Vote Kay For now until I have time to reread the thread and think of more of a case. I feel like her vote on me was opportunistic, she hasn't posted much content, pretty much no scumhunting, and has been coasting all game. Claiming I'm redirector and scum has a safeguard IS grasping. You can't know for sure whether or not someone would have claimed, and you also forget that someone may not even realize they were redirected if they ended up targeting the same person they wanted to (say redirecting Elieson because they thought he was softclaiming cop towards Prims who looked obvtown D1 rather than one of their buddies). That's just an example of what I'm trying to say and would honestly be pretty lucky if THAT happened, but you get the point. I agree that they probably didn't idle though. Again, they could have just hit a passive ability. You also forget that we all theorized there was a safeguard, and everyone said that the safeguard should target NekoRex. If that's the case, WHY would the redirector target NekoRex and fail their action instead of messing with someone else? Not a lie at all and I could care less about using pathos since all people will do is complain about me using it to my advantage and I'll feel bad (which is ironic yes). You're the only person who caught that I was softclaiming anything so no, that's not true. Prims thought I made good posts in answer to any accusations, Elieson felt that I defended myself well enough that a third party was a better idea to kill off than me, and everyone else who was voting me sheeped their vote so that attention would stay off them (hint: Paper and Kay). Pretty sure out of the six targets you had at the beginning of the phase I WASN'T listed in there. 1) Kay could be lying. There is no evidence to say that she isn't. 2) You could be lying and blocked her (though I kinda doubt this and it's part of a super speculation idea I thought of that involves you being scum along with Elieson and a scum!safeguard) 3) Safeguard could have been on me since they aren't tunneling and realize that I'm town, then took into account you pointing out I softclaimed something like a protection role and didn't want anything to happen with that (hint: like a certain someone hooking him :P). 4. Kay could be like an SK or something that tried to kill me, but I was protected and thus her action failed. Your key flaw in this theory is that you think Kay is town and that I'm scum, which is purely speculation and if even one thing is wrong your entire theory is wrong (and I know for sure half of it is wrong). yeah i'm not really helping the cause either but i think i'll get a better idea of things after a kaoz/kay flip Elieson you should vote SB so we don't have a universal loss then just cop Scorri tonight to see if she's scum or town. Thoughts? Like really guys deadline is coming up and I kinda want this game to not end. I can't be sure of anything in here buuuuuut notice how mid game he was up Kay's butt, but later on suggested that I cop scorri. Note, on the night that I did in fact get my scan off successfully, I had targetted Manix instead of scorri. Had I scanned scorri, we'd have a reverse situation as far as claims go (well actually I dunno what exactly we'd have), but considering he was 100% certain (see my bolded/underlined quote thing), and he suggested that I scan scorri (which why would he want me to scan a scumbuddy, on a night that he chose not to redirect me but get me silenced instead), is starting to fit together. ---------POSTING THIS BECAUSE I NEED NOTES, AND FIGURE WE COULD ALL USE SOME AS WELL--------- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elieson Posted December 19, 2012 Share Posted December 19, 2012 N1, scan Prims. Obv happens. N2, scan was roleblocked due to redirected ShinoRBi. D3, Helios suggested me scan scorri. N3, I get silenced (but scanned Manix). D4, Kaoz outs that I scanned Manix. N4, I get redirected to Rocker. N5, ??? (No flavor or anything at all so I'm really just spec'ing here) No rules stating anything about scans being accurate or not, but then again there hasn't been a miller claim, and why would there be a godfather claim. Thoughts lead to either Helios trying to cover for Kay while Kay's role actually was something else, and claiming blocked and trying to get me to scan a town instead of scum, OR scorri!godfather/whatever. PEDIT Kay, you targetted Helios on N2 IIRC. What did your Tracker/Voyeur/Whatever it was scan bring up? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kay Posted December 19, 2012 Share Posted December 19, 2012 I'm pretty sure that's not hammer since only you and Bal are voting for me right now. But uh, have fun with that. Overreact much? Yes, exactly. I'm voting you because it's not hammer and therefore doesn't shorten the day. What did I overreact to? Right, so actually things about this. -Way to many protection roles. There are actually less than we were thinking when you first were saying stuff about this because the two bodyguard claims were fake. So... yeah, that's an interesting switch. -Got to have a scumread on scorri That doesn't mean that you shouldn't try and explain why you think I'm scum. You continue to just be like "Oh, person is scum" and that's it. So yeah. Annihilate me all you want, you still look scummy to me. Because I wasn't thinking at the time because I don't honestly care about the game a whole lot. You're scum because PoE. Votes for Baldrick for ehhhhhhhh, but at least hints at a reason? I voted for Baldrick the phase before that, my reasons for voting him were the same so I didn't repeat them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kay Posted December 19, 2012 Share Posted December 19, 2012 Kay, you targetted Helios on N2 IIRC. What did your Tracker/Voyeur/Whatever it was scan bring up? Fail. Hence the whole safeguard thing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elieson Posted December 19, 2012 Share Posted December 19, 2012 Right. What about N4, is it safe to assume that you idled? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kay Posted December 19, 2012 Share Posted December 19, 2012 Right. What about N4, is it safe to assume that you idled? Yes, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elieson Posted December 19, 2012 Share Posted December 19, 2012 Updated Chart because I'm going nuts and can't consolidate anything in a single place: [spoiler=Role Claims/Action Claims] Player Claims: Roles/Actions Elie Cop -Prims (Success) -Kaoz (Failed due to Redirect!Helios on RB!Shinori towards me) -Manix (Success) -Balc (Sort of success-Redirected to Rocker) -scorri (Failed due to ???. No results so not a Redirect) Balc Comp.SG -Paper (Failed due to Commuter!Paperblade) -Helios (*) -Shinori (*) -Manix (*) -Rocker (*) Kay Jack** -NNR (*) -Helios (Failed due to SG!Balcerzak) -Idle (*) -Idle (*) -Idle (*) Manix Clearhachi~ -None/Unclaimed Scorri 1xBP -None/Unclaimed * Claimed and Assummed successful (as in not Hooked/Blocked/S.Guarded) ** Claimed Full Cop, Modified Voyeur, +1 Day Survival Grant (I dunno what else to call it), and BPV that if lost, destroys all remaining abilities** Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sunwoo Posted December 19, 2012 Share Posted December 19, 2012 (edited) DEAD AND NOT PLAYING Votals + voting history: scorri (2) Manix, Manix, Elieson, Balcerzak, Kay Balcerzak (0) scorri Kay (1) scorri Not voting: Manix, Elieson Why am I the official votals person? I'm dead. DEAD AND NOT PLAYING Edited December 19, 2012 by Taewoo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eclipse Posted December 19, 2012 Author Share Posted December 19, 2012 Two reasons. 1. I suck at them. 2. I've been sick/busy (currently the former). Your help is appreciated, so thanks! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paperblade Posted December 19, 2012 Share Posted December 19, 2012 It's hard to screw up votals if you just use ctrl+f for "##" but I still manage to do it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sunwoo Posted December 19, 2012 Share Posted December 19, 2012 I actually grab a sheet of paper and compile votals by hand, going through all the pages since votals were last posted for a certain phase. It works, shrug. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eclipse Posted December 19, 2012 Author Share Posted December 19, 2012 It's hard to screw up votals if you just use ctrl+f for "##" but I still manage to do it Then some genius quotes something, and I get confused. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paperblade Posted December 19, 2012 Share Posted December 19, 2012 Ignore things in quote tags Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balcerzak Posted December 19, 2012 Share Posted December 19, 2012 Some things to consider. Day3 End Blitz scorri Kay Kay Bananas Bananas Bananas Bananas Bananas Bananas Bananas Bananas Helios Kaoz Kaoz Kaoz Kaoz Kaoz Bananas Bananas Bananas Bananas Bananas Prims Balcerzak scorri scorri scorri scorri scorri scorri scorri scorri Bananas Bananas Shinori scorri scorri scorri 0 0 scorri scorri scorri Helios Paperblade Kaoz Manix 0 0 0 0 scorri scorri scorri scorri scorri scorri Elieson Bananas 0 0 0 0 0 Bananas Bananas Bananas Boron Kay Baldric Baldric Baldric Baldric Baldric Baldric Baldric Baldric Baldric Baldric Baldri Bananas Bananas Bananas Bananas Bananas Bananas Bananas Bananas Bananas Bananas Neko BBM Bananas Baldric Baldric Baldric Baldric Baldric Baldric Baldric Baldric Baldric Baldric Rocker If scorri were town, mafia would have had a much easier time pushing the D3 lynch onto her than trying to set up on Bananas. The Bananas wagon progresses over about 3 hours, with a concentrated push (Eli had voted Bananas, but unvoted once Baldrick tossed his hat in the ring). This was also coming along relatively late in the day, when the 2 votes on Baldrick could be viewed as a significant threat. I wanted to try to analyze the possibility for why Baldrick didn't buddy on to a scorri+Helios when they were on the Kay wagon, but that was much earlier in the day, and so probably not subject to the same thought processes. The problem I have with SB's claim is how was his N1 action townish? He should have targetted Neko, who was the biggest threat to the mafia at that point. I really want to know what Rocker did, since he's the most trustworthy source we've got. The most logical move would be to target the cop, but SB said he didn't do that. The no-lynching idea doesn't look good, but it's far from the most dubious thing he's done, imo. ##Vote: SB Bah. Ok, well Kay's clearly not getting lynched. Out of everyone, I think this is the best bet. ##Unvote ##Vote: Serious Bananas Gonna respond to all of this because 1) These arguments have some holes in them 2) I think SB is possible scum SB CASE (with reasons not in any particular order of importance) (I gave it impact font for extra impact): ##Unvote (Kaoz) ##Vote SB Also I've worked on this post for 30 minutes so I'm probably gonna get ninja'd like crazy I'd still like to lynch Kaoz and will switch to him if that is more likely to happen Aside from this, there's not really a lot of other tracking/overlap to be done between scorri and Helios, they both piled onto a Neko wagon D1, but Kay was on that too, so it doesn't tell us a lot. scorri and Helios did to a fair bit of light rp back and forth in ED1, but I can't honestly call that out. On the other hand, the only attention (votewise at least, didn't manage to search the whole thread) on Baldrick prior to Kay bringing to bear on him, was an impulse vote by Bananas. Be quiet. Yes that was my post restriction. I'm mind of busy right now but I'm just gonna say my action failed too, so Baldrick jumping on Helios is unjustified. ##Vote: Baldrick Actual stuff when I get back. Until Kay, Baldrick had kind of been effectively skirting under the radar, unless I'm misremembering or misrepresenting, and if so, please somebody point it out to me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grace Posted December 19, 2012 Share Posted December 19, 2012 honestly this could go either way the fact of the matter is that no matter the flip, we win ##Vote: Kay Elie can pick the school prez for 2012 with his vote Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elieson Posted December 19, 2012 Share Posted December 19, 2012 Ughhhh ##Vote: Kay Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grace Posted December 19, 2012 Share Posted December 19, 2012 if it's scumri, good job forcing the mislynch on Kay, you deserve that much if not good job anyway because yeah Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elieson Posted December 19, 2012 Share Posted December 19, 2012 Wait am i losing my mind if I am starting to consider scum!Bal/Scorri? Sorry I'm second guessing myself :/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grace Posted December 19, 2012 Share Posted December 19, 2012 paranoid town is my territory Elie scorri I can understand but Bal I honestly can't see Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elieson Posted December 19, 2012 Share Posted December 19, 2012 Ughhhh ##Unvote Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elieson Posted December 19, 2012 Share Posted December 19, 2012 I have been thinking all morning about the claims. Something between the two doesnt add up. Kay effectively has nothing for her actual actions, while Scorri has no actions. Urrrrggggghhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elieson Posted December 19, 2012 Share Posted December 19, 2012 Never mind. There is like nothing left to actually discuss aside from role speculation. ##Vote: Kay Screw it. Both roles are potential lies, and while Baldrick made Scorri look quite bad by proxy, Helios did the same to Kay. Thing is, that call for a scan on Scorri seemed waaaay too unnecessary at the time. I guess just undo my Unvote because all I did was bounce in my thoughts for a few minutes. Tbh I voted upon waking up and barely even out that much new thought into it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kay Posted December 19, 2012 Share Posted December 19, 2012 Okay, lemme just try to make a few last points. Go look at that rolespec discussion between me and Baldrick, see if it actually looks staged to you. The D1 interactions between Helios and Scorri definitely do. Another thing, Helios has been throwing sloppy votes at me all game. Like, look at this D3 post of his. Oh I completely forgot about the redirector. I guess that does kinda pseudoclear Elieson. The point I was trying to make was moreso "get your shit together son" than "you're scum aren't you". I know this isn't really a strong reason but I feel Bal is town because he sounds sincere in what he does. And then there's meta too. I just think he hasn't been active enough to really do much. I'd prefer Kay or Kaoz to be lynched over him. And of course I'm not sure why scum would target Paperblade because I'm pretty sure out of a group of people someone would say it's a bad idea. That sounds like it was his action and not a group action. Bal, who do you want to vote for and why? ##Vote Kay For now until I have time to reread the thread and think of more of a case. I feel like her vote on me was opportunistic, she hasn't posted much content, pretty much no scumhunting, and has been coasting all game. That reasoning is basically just rephrasing "Kay hasn't posted a lot" in a bunch of different ways to make it look like a more valid argument. And one more thing, yeah, a lot of people wagoned Baldrick, but not until after I started pointing out his useless rolespec. Before that, he was being pretty unnoticed. Why would I point out the one person on the scumteam not being examined already? Bussing Helios would have made more sense, since he was already voting for me and was already under suspicion, but not enough that it was a guaranteed lynch. Whatever though, it's a pretty sure win either way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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