[NOC] [Anon] [Open Set-Up] Strip Mafia - lol

[C. C.]

Obviously the town has not fallen for this, Illusio doesn't have a case agaisnt you (he's jumping around more than focusing on a single person), and most people voting you are doing so for other reasons. Stop the drama please.

If illusio doesn't have a case on urist and this whole past like two pages has been just urist vs illusio it seems then why aren't you saying anything about this to illusio and asking him quesitons and stuff?

Seems like that would be beneficial. Sorry I haven't been active.

WRT Paseltongues response to my early post: I did read the illusio vs parsel comments and I hadn't said I was just uneasy about you, I said I was uneasy about both of you because I found it extremely weird that something happened so fast. It felt uneasy and forced to me. So don't think i misread the stuff and don't think I only felt suspicious of you, because it was too both of you.

I'm pretty sure I know who illusio is and so far he actually is most likely town. So I'm not gonna vote him. However I am going to do this:

##Vote: ScumhunterX

Partially with regards to what I have already typed above, but more of a case in a second.

Also I need to actually read dwarf because I haven't had the chance to read as I haven't been around at all today.

[Nemu Kurotsuchi]

@Jay: Fair enough, I hadn't realised he's disappeared.

I'm liking Magus less and less as time goes by. A good town player would try to address each argument individually, instead of just grouping it together, dismissing it as not worth rebutting, then go on the attack again. Of course, as others have said before, Magus might just be a inexperienced town player. So even though he's play doesn't impress me, I'm not switching my vote yet. I want Magus to tell me why Urist's points against you are not sound.

[Rain Nijika]

@ ikakas- i think i know who illusio is too but this is an anon game, meaning "don't use meta", not "figure out who all the players are so that you can use meta". plus i actually think that there's a stark difference between his play here and in some other games, but i don't really want to get into this type of argument when we don't even know who he is for sure. also not a fan of how you skipped most of the thread's activity and poked at one particular post near the end of the thread, of somebody who's unlikely to get lynched today anyways. please vote for somebody who has a decent chance of getting lynched today please.

[C. C.]

I'm sorry last I checked we still had plenty of time this day phase to go over scum reads and if need be change who was being lynched. Pretty sure there is still at least over 24 hours left, right?

Why don't you think scumhunter could be lynched today? From what I read I believe a few other people stated suspicions about this person besides just me.

[Prims]

>V-V-Votecount!

(3) Bogeto Bogeto - Grape Soda, Red Mage, Jay Gatsby

(3) IllusioMagus - Parseltongue, Urist McDwarf, Gonzou Azai

(3) Urist McDwarf - Stormageddon, IllusioMagus, Scumhunter X

(1) Parseltongue - Viking

(1) Scumhunter X - Ikakas

Not Voting (1): Bogeto Bogeto

With 12 alive, it takes 7 to hammer. You have about 21 hours left in the day.

[Ochako Uraraka]

@Jay: Fair enough, I hadn't realised he's disappeared.

I'm liking Magus less and less as time goes by. A good town player would try to address each argument individually, instead of just grouping it together, dismissing it as not worth rebutting, then go on the attack again. Of course, as others have said before, Magus might just be a inexperienced town player. So even though he's play doesn't impress me, I'm not switching my vote yet. I want Magus to tell me why Urist's points against you are not sound.

It's not sound because he focuses on aggression as a whole. Stating that I jump around too much without much reasons is a mirror and paraphrasing of me being aggressive. He's put so much effort into tunneling me that he's failed to see how anyone else could be scummy. Most of his posts have been him focusing me and ignoring scum reads on other players.

Him continuously quoting that I have not rebutted his defence is also a way of stagnating the thread, because he is repeatedly trying to draw town back into something that is not as important as what he makes then out to be.

[Aizen]

[Ochako Uraraka]

I remember a time when players didn't give scum a free pass for being scummy for the excuse of "being bad at Mafia"

Magus has been on my case since he's voted me, and I've debunked and turned around every single accusation he's thrown at me, while he's been firing around weak suspicion at everyone else.

The difference between me and him is that I have reasons why he is scummy, and he doesn't have the vice versa.

No, you have not. Read through my posts again and actually rebut them before making such statements.

[Ochako Uraraka]

Well, I'm sorry to disappoint you, but I'm town.

Also, the fact that you out that pic up means that you are trying to get town to see you as town. You are trying to remove the possibility of you being scum by inducing town to think that you'll enjoy lynching "scum".

That is another point against you: Trying too much to act like town.

[Aizen]

That was towards everyone who isn't voting you for the possibility of you being a newbie, instead of voting you for being scummy.

[Aizen]

No, you have not. Read through my posts again and actually rebut them before making such statements.

You mean the statements I've already had rebuttals to?

Also if you want to read my defense, try looking at your posts that mention me, then SCROLLING DOWN

Where's your case on me again?

[Refakitty³]

Well, I'm sorry to disappoint you, but I'm town.

Trying too much to act like town.

Hi pot, meet Kettle.

Sorry for being gone for so long. Apparently life feels like dishing out stress on a hot plate, and gave me an extra serving.

I honestly have poured through the entire thread since my last post and this is the highlight summary of anything I could possibly have said. Magus, you seem to be under the impression that demanding answers to your questions is the only way to hunt scum, and all it does is make you look like a pushy bully. It does nothing to make you look any better, because all it does is form mixed opinions of you. I can say with confidence that you are either the most politely aggressive town player in the history of mafia, or a scum player trying to divert attention to everywhere except yourself. It's distracting. You are really cluttering the game with your indistinguishable "reads" that scream so and so is this and so and so is that.

And what gets me more is that you simply counter arguments against you with "read or reread my posts". Think for a moment. Would people have a case on you if they hadn't read your posts? Telling us to read what you have said only makes for a weak defense because you aren't countering any arguments with definitive evidence against accusations towards you.

Drawf is exhibiting this too, but not to the magnitude of you, Magus. It's rather irritating, and effectively takes time from producing content by ordering people to just "go and backtrack" without citing examples.

I see Dwarf leaning scum, but I'm also feeling that the intensity of Dwarf vs Magus is going to result in either one being town or both being town. It just seems too comfortable of an uncomfortable argument between the two (which isn't accomplishin much afaik) to be staged.

I have seen absolutely nothing from Bogeto that changes my mind on him, and am quite content keeping my vote there, but I feel comfortable that at most one of Dwarf and Magus are scum.

[Sham]

Ok wow I missed a lot. After going back and reading the thread, while paying special attention to the Dwarf/Illusio arguments, it seems like dwarf would be my main guess. I felt Illusio was using more logic, while Dwarf was trying to attack his logic and undermine his credibility. I think Illusio particularity nailed how dwarf was acting with this:

You sound like an overeager kid who's so excited about what he's doing that he loses all his rationality.

##VOTE Urist McDwarf

[Sham]

Although I still don't really trust either of them, I just feel like dwarf is the scummier of the two.

[Rain Nijika]

itt bogeto picks one of the two sides of the argument and doesn't back it up with anything meaningful. where exactly are these examples of illusio acting logical and urist not?

[Prims]

>V-V-Votecount!

(4) Urist McDwarf - Stormageddon, IllusioMagus, Scumhunter X, Bogeto Bogeto

(3) Bogeto Bogeto - Grape Soda, Red Mage, Jay Gatsby

(3) IllusioMagus - Parseltongue, Urist McDwarf, Gonzou Azai

(1) Parseltongue - Viking

(1) Scumhunter X - Ikakas

Not Voting (0): None!

With 12 alive, it takes 7 to hammer. You have about 7 hours, 49 minutes left in the day.

There's a bunch of prods I need to send out I think

edit: just gonzou actually but viking will hit the prod timer while i'm gone if they dont post soon

Edited December 11, 2012 by cyborg sammy davis jr.

[Rain Nijika]

firstly, grape soda, you used a regular food metaphor instead of one involving grape soda. i'm disappointed in you.

anyways, my feeling right now is that the scumteam is bogeto, parsel, and one of urist/illusio. possibly one of the inactives lurkers like scumhunter/ikakas/gonzou/storm/viking is in here instead of urist/illusio and they're town infighting idk. of the ones i've mentioned at the end gonzou looks the worst, for taking posts out of context one at a time and not commenting on most of what's happening.

expanding a bit more on why illusio is hypocritical:

in post 1, he says that he dislikes urist because urist doesn't answer questions properly (and the fact that bogeto did is why he unvoted bogeto). clearly he thinks answering questions directly is good, and not answering them directly is scummy.

then in post 2 and post 3 he refuses to respond directly to urist just because he feels the question is invalid, and that the votes on him don't mean anything. this is a pretty direct contradiction of what he believes is scummy

also the entire reason for his urist vote is that urist is a) poking at people for being aggressive and b) not answering questions

then in this post he attacked parseltongue for flipping his views too much. now there are wayyyy too many posts of illusio's to link where he does this, but i'll direct you to the most recent page of his iso, where he has suspicions of varying degrees against urist, parsel, scumhunter, gonzou, viking, storm, and grape. he keeps his vote solidly on urist though.

[Rain Nijika]

oh the post 1 link didn't work properly, it's this post. btw that last point against illusio was basically just that he's being super hypocritical, calling out parsel for flipping views when he has called more than half the people in the thread scum at various points.

also, since we have less time left than I thought we did, in the interest of stacking votes: ##Unvote, ##Vote: Illusio

i've elaborated on this and in the ten minutes since my last post i realized that i'd really rather lynch one of illusio and urist because if we don't then they're basically both going to votepark the other for the entire d2 and we won't get very many helpful opinions from them about the other players.

[Rain Nijika]

fuck syntax ##Unvote, ##Vote: IllusioMagus

[Shiki Ryougi]

If illusio doesn't have a case on urist and this whole past like two pages has been just urist vs illusio it seems then why aren't you saying anything about this to illusio and asking him quesitons and stuff?

I don't think I understand your question.

That was towards everyone who isn't voting you for the possibility of you being a newbie, instead of voting you for being scummy.

Haven't you read mine and Jay's posts saying why we think he's a TOWN newbie and not scum doing something stupid? I'm used to dealing with the later a lot, really. I've seen cases where scum try to act smart but fail badly while trying to do something bad. My judgment isn't perfect, but he doesn't seem to be scum to me.

Also, you're trying your hardest to make us believe Illusio is definitely scum, from the way you phrase your posts. Are you sure about that? Are you softclaiming Cop? Then stop saying he's definitely scum, that you convicted him as scum, that people who believe him not to be scum but town newbie are wrong and are giving him a free pass, that it's obvious he's scum etc. By the way, is he your only scumread? It seems you completely forgot about the game to focus on a single target... And this is one of the reasons why I believe you're being opportunistic by tunneling an easy lynch target.

Ok wow I missed a lot. After going back and reading the thread, while paying special attention to the Dwarf/Illusio arguments, it seems like dwarf would be my main guess. I felt Illusio was using more logic, while Dwarf was trying to attack his logic and undermine his credibility. I think Illusio particularity nailed how dwarf was acting with this:

##VOTE Urist McDwarf

Woah, that was... Sure opportunistic. You picked a side, distorted everything that happened to fit into your excuse, and made a post. This is awful. Really, really awful. Would you please read the thread?

anyways, my feeling right now is that the scumteam is bogeto, parsel, and one of urist/illusio. possibly one of the inactives lurkers like scumhunter/ikakas/gonzou/storm/viking is in here instead of urist/illusio and they're town infighting idk. of the ones i've mentioned at the end gonzou looks the worst, for taking posts out of context one at a time and not commenting on most of what's happening.

I still think Illusio and Parsel can't be on the same scumteam. Nor Urist and Illusio, obviously. Or Bogeto and Urist, because he chose to vote Urist instead.

Bogeto's sudden appearance and opportunistic vote makes me want to lynch him instead of Urist, because he could have been buddying with Illusio back then (and if he turned out to be scum, so would Illusio, and then Urist would be town), but we don't have enough time, soo...

[Sham]

itt bogeto picks one of the two sides of the argument and doesn't back it up with anything meaningful. where exactly are these examples of illusio acting logical and urist not?

Just read through the last page, it's pretty prevalent.

Can we at least agree to vote Illuso, Dwarf, or me by the end of the day? Last thing we want is not enough of a majority and losing a day.

[Shiki Ryougi]

Also Jay, correct me if I'm wrong, but your only reason to vote Illusio is because he acted hypocritically, right? Where did your "grasping town newbie" argument go?

[Sham]

Woah, that was... Sure opportunistic. You picked a side, distorted everything that happened to fit into your excuse, and made a post. This is awful. Really, really awful. Would you please read the thread?

I missed like a whole page of posts, and after reading them I felt like Illusio had a better case. I didn't distort shit.

[Shiki Ryougi]

I missed like a whole page of posts, and after reading them I felt like Illusio had a better case. I didn't distort shit.

Why do you think Urist is not being logical? On which points do you agree with Illusio's case?

[Rain Nijika]

Also Jay, correct me if I'm wrong, but your only reason to vote Illusio is because he acted hypocritically, right? Where did your "grasping town newbie" argument go?

i changed my mind. grasping town newbies explains why he's flinging a lot of suspicions around. it doesn't make up for the fact that flinging suspicions around is what he thinks is scummy in other people. even newbies don't often say something is scummy and then do that exact same thing themselves. also i want to lynch one of urist/illusio today because even if they're both town, they're both going to be useless tomorrow otherwise and we're basically just going to end up there again tomorrow. of the two, illusio is being really shifty, and while urist is tunneling, his tone reads more town than illusio's does. the thing about tunneling is that while scum might do it because you can get out of offering reads on 90% of the game, it also really fucks you over if the person you're tunneling flips town. and if urist is scum and knows illusio is town, being so direct about mislynching a townie so far away from mylo/lylo is not something scum really wants to do.

also, bogeto: "evidence? find it yourself."

no. you're trying to convince us of something. burden of proof is on you, not us, especially since things like logic and irrationality aren't ironclad things that everyone sees as the same. i could read the last few pages and interpret their posts as the exact opposite of what you've declared them to be.