I write better than I speak.

[Gold Vanguard]

This has plague me my entire life. I could write an novel and explain everything that's happening in print but ask me to speak it out and I begin to stutter, forget what I'm about to say at all the wrong moments.

[Parrhesia]

This has plague me my entire life.

Either English isn't your first language or that is a BAD stutter.

But yeah, don't sweat it, a lot of people are the same.

Edited December 3, 2012 by Furetchen

[Thor Odinson]

I have the same issue. I guess I just articulate better when I can see what I'm doing?

Not that I'm particularly good at either anyway.

[Elieson]

This has plague me my entire life. I could write an novel and explain everything that's happening in print but ask me to speak it out and I begin to stutter, forget what I'm about to say at all the wrong moments.

Plague should be "plagued"

An novel should be "a novel"

Comma belongs between "happening in print" and "but"

Shall we go on, :)

Also it's common to speak more casually, as slang is fairly easy to use in general conversation. That, combined with a comfort level that is taught early on to children to speak properly and write even more properly.

Grammar usually gets in the way more when forced, and while writing, you have more time to come up with vocabulary and such. While speaking, you have none.

Edited December 3, 2012 by Elieson

[escroc]

be happy. i can't speak nor write well, either english or my mother tongue lol.

[Florete]

My parents once read something I wrote. They were surprised when they found out I wrote it because it was so much different ("better," but they didn't want to say it like that) than how I speak otherwise.

[Rehab]

For a long time I couldn't imagine why I had this same problem, more or less- like, "I'm making myself look stupid, why am I failing to find the words to answer things I'm sure I know in my head?" Or, less often but a bit more painfully, "This is seems like such an easy topic, so why can't I think of an answer for it?"

It took me way too long to realize that the amount of experience I've had "writing conversation," like in posting and IMing, just totally outweighed the experience I'd had speaking to people at length offline or in person. It definitely seemed daunting when I was trying to make friends then, and without some help I might've easily just given up around the point I realized that the way I was approaching conversation wasn't working out how I wanted, but I gradually came to think of it as just another type of skill, point being it's something people can generally learn to do better. So I wouldn't count yourself out just because you might not be able to say, "Talking to people? Nope, can't remember a time I wasn't already great at that!"

I can't say this is a guaranteed, totally academic way to look at it, but the way I try to understand speaking is that if you have everything you want to say already jotted down in your head, including the answers you'll have to prepared for the responses you'll get, you're basically approaching it from the angle of speechifying, getting into the art of public speaking.

Not trying to put that down, because I think it's natural and useful to an extent, it can be borderline necessary in polite company/if you're speaking to somebody you're unfamiliar with, and it doesn't necessarily produce bad results in conversation, but it's actually kinda really hard to approach all the speaking you do from this perspective. Or at least I can't say otherwise from my experience. It kinda feels like trying to force rules on a state of anarchy, which conversation can feel like when it starts to outpace me. If you really hate improvising, though, you're free to try.

The polar opposite would be just. I guess. Speaking your mind, fuck the police, I am me dwi etc. Like, Kamina (or insert other brash character as desired), the experience. I'm failing to come up with a more eloquent way to put it than giving your id the microphone, not giving a fuck etc, but you get the idea. I hope.

I can't say this is all bad, because some people can be honestly pretty entertaining doing this, and even if you're not, some people really appreciate people presenting themselves that way with no filters, but if it's totally uncensored, at least at first you might need to be prepared to sound unpolished. It can even be a little counterintuitive, if you have a complicated opinion on something, but only have time to express it partially. There's the possibility of leaving impressions you don't intend, and it seems like a particularly love-or-hate approach to me, and I imagine it also might require some effort on the part of whoever you're talking with to try to tell if you're being open or just abrasive, but some people swear by zero self-censorship. Your call whether you think it's how you most want to come across.

I think "the art of conversation" is effectively something in the middle; modifying what comes to mind before speaking only to the extent you make sure you're being polite, and that you're giving the other person room to continue from where you finish speaking. It's my opinion that this [interpretation of conversation] is roughly the most efficient, or at least "most likely to be well-received" investment of effort. It also requires you do some of the work involved in both of the former approaches, in that it might require practice talking to people to feel comfortable enough to speak your mind, thoughtfully and in a short period of time, especially in more delicate situations, but it seems like the most polite approach, in that it's respecting the conversation while not trying to fully control it unnecessarily, if that makes any sense.

It's no death sentence if you generally just don't want to get that involved in speaking conversation that much, though, and I wouldn't want to beat anybody up or nothin for not having their manner of speaking strictly adhere to a certain ideological ideal. If you just want to talk to some particular people and not worry about how you come across, things can probably just even themselves out on an individual level. Being an introvert is also legitimately underrated.

Irrelevant aside: sometimes when I'm having a hard time in trying to keep a conversation flowing, assuming I'm not under pressure to impress anybody or something, it can help to pad out a sentence with exactly what's going on in my head, like actually saying "Oh, I'm having a hard time thinking of the best way to word this," or something to the extent. It fills the silence for a bit, and I think people can be surprisingly sympathetic when they're able to fill in your motive for stopping conversation.

[Gold Vanguard]

1354568351[/url]' post='2203699']

Either English isn't your first language or that is a BAD stutter.

But yeah, don't sweat it, a lot of people are the same.

Well English is my first language. It's just that my mouth says all the wrong words when I'm speaking(most of the time).

[bottlegnomes]

And apparently your fingers type them, too.

Not to downplay what you're talking about, but it probably doesn't matter. In casual conversation, no one really cares if you screw up some words. And in formal settings, like interviews, the people aren't going to expect you to answer instantaneously; they'll give you some time to think.

Edited December 4, 2012 by bottlegnomes

[Freohr Datia]

Comma belongs between "happening in print" and "but"

My english prof that I have right now would probably say that that isn't necessary =o I would usually use a comma there but she would just think it's superfluous since the "but" kinda already works on splitting each part of that sentence by itself x3

But... the comma between stutter and forget should be replaced with "and" =D

I can't imagine that it would be surprising that it's easier to write than talk for many. With writing your focus will just be on the words while with talking you have to work on words and tone of voice or the volume at which you're speaking. Also with writing you have all you're going to say right in front of you so as long as it's written down you can't forget what you were going to say like you would with talking. You can also organize the order of what you're going to say with writing, but when speaking, if you've said something out of order you can't fix it XD

The problem people could have with writing is getting spelling and grammar correctly. But then again, with speaking you have to worry about only grammar and not spelling x3

[Lord Raven]

I talk better than I can write, because when I write I try to cram too much into one sentence.

[Hawk King]

^ This

[bottlegnomes]

My english prof that I have right now would probably say that that isn't necessary =o I would usually use a comma there but she would just think it's superfluous since the "but" kinda already works on splitting each part of that sentence by itself x3

Do me a favor. Hit your English professor.

I can't imagine that it would be surprising that it's easier to write than talk for many. With writing your focus will just be on the words while with talking you have to work on words and tone of voice or the volume at which you're speaking. Also with writing you have all you're going to say right in front of you so as long as it's written down you can't forget what you were going to say like you would with talking. You can also organize the order of what you're going to say with writing, but when speaking, if you've said something out of order you can't fix it XD

The problem people could have with writing is getting spelling and grammar correctly. But then again, with speaking you have to worry about only grammar and not spelling x3

While I agree with most of this, I'd go the exact opposite direction on the bolded part. Tone and volume, as with all body language, are largely automatic, so we don't think about them when conversing. In writing, however, you run the risk of having the words be misinterpreted and thus have to use words that mean more precisely what you intend (in the case of writing with no narration, like forums) or you have to actively think about how a character would act and the best way to portray that with just text (in the case of a piece with narration, like a short story).

Edited December 4, 2012 by bottlegnomes

[Life]

Do me a favor. Hit your English professor.

Not actually incorrect. If the teacher is Canadian, British or from a Commonwealth country, it's not incorrect to leave the comma out.

[Freohr Datia]

Do me a favor. Hit your English professor.

Not actually incorrect. If the teacher is Canadian, British or from a Commonwealth country, it's not incorrect to leave the comma out.

Yeah my english prof really seems like she knows what she's doing and talking about so I am pretty sure she is correct in that. I don't think she's any of what Life listed though.

But as I said, I think perhaps the idea is that "but" acts as a comma by itself because it separates the ideas well enough (my teacher was even saying that people get annoyed at unnecessary commas since they think of them as speed bumps XD And she said people in the US especially have the type of attitude of wanting to do everything fast like in fast food x3)

While I agree with most of this, I'd go the exact opposite direction on the bolded part. Tone and volume, as with all body language, are largely automatic, so we don't think about them when conversing. In writing, however, you run the risk of having the words be misinterpreted and thus have to use words that mean more precisely what you intend (in the case of writing with no narration, like forums) or you have to actively think about how a character would act and the best way to portray that with just text (in the case of a piece with narration, like a short story).

Yeah I see what you mean. Mostly I mean in cases where people give presentations and whatnot and end up speaking monotonously when properly they should probably be showing a proper amount of enthusiasm x3 But of course if it isn't presentation then it feels much easier ^~^

But I guess this topic was only about casual conversation to begin with so I guess it was wrong of me to mention that...

[Psych]

I danced with the strippers, George Bush and Barack Obama.

I danced with the strippers, George Bush, and Barack Obama.

Without the second comma, you are implying George Bush and Barack Obama are strippers.

[Rewjeo]

I don't think so. Whether to use a comma there or not is not really a hard and fast rule, so both mean the same thing. Losing both commas would imply that.

[Psych]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Serial_comma

go down to ambiguity

[bottlegnomes]

Not actually incorrect. If the teacher is Canadian, British or from a Commonwealth country, it's not incorrect to leave the comma out.

Fair enough. Not too familiar with English from other countries.

Yeah my english prof really seems like she knows what she's doing and talking about so I am pretty sure she is correct in that. I don't think she's any of what Life listed though.

But as I said, I think perhaps the idea is that "but" acts as a comma by itself because it separates the ideas well enough (my teacher was even saying that people get annoyed at unnecessary commas since they think of them as speed bumps XD And she said people in the US especially have the type of attitude of wanting to do everything fast like in fast food x3)

It's for damn sure incorrect in American English, but as I said to Life, not too familiar with other forms of English.

As for commas, they denote a very slight pause when speaking. Listen closely to a conversation. You should notice that people pause very slightly before using a conjunction to connect two independent clauses, like in "I have a dog, and his name is Buster."

Yeah I see what you mean. Mostly I mean in cases where people give presentations and whatnot and end up speaking monotonously when properly they should probably be showing a proper amount of enthusiasm x3 But of course if it isn't presentation then it feels much easier ^~^

But I guess this topic was only about casual conversation to begin with so I guess it was wrong of me to mention that...

True. I hadn't considered presentations. There I can agree with you.

I danced with the strippers, George Bush and Barack Obama.

I danced with the strippers, George Bush, and Barack Obama.

Without the second comma, you are implying George Bush and Barack Obama are strippers.

I don't think so. Whether to use a comma there or not is not really a hard and fast rule, so both mean the same thing. Losing both commas would imply that.

Nope. As he said, losing the second comma creates more ambiguity. Here's another example:

I find it funny that the only reason this whole thing came up is because the newspaper industry wanted to save money so they started removing the oxford/serial comma.

[Freohr Datia]

Fair enough. Not too familiar with English from other countries.

It's for damn sure incorrect in American English, but as I said to Life, not too familiar with other forms of English.

As for commas, they denote a very slight pause when speaking. Listen closely to a conversation. You should notice that people pause very slightly before using a conjunction to connect two independent clauses, like in "I have a dog, and his name is Buster."

Perhaps she just learned it can be both ways then~ Back when I was in high school I had always been taught that it was required (except mostly in high school they said when used before "and" commas shouldn't be used XD) but now I'm being taught it could be either way x3

[Lord Raven]

I also speak better than I write because grammatical marks and whatever annoy the hell outta me. I never bothered to learn how to properly use them, hence I'm not doing as well as I'd like in my lab class (which is also technical writing).

[bottlegnomes]

^Google Purdue OWL. It'll answer pretty much any grammatical questions you might have.

[Rewjeo]

I agree that the Oxford Comma is good for clarity, and I use it, but paying attention to where "and" and commas appear eliminates the ambiguity in any circumstance that comes to my mind right now. "I danced with the strippers, George Bush and Barack Obama," could never mean that those two are strippers, and "I had eggs, toast and orange juice," couldn't lead to that second picture. Saying "I danced with the strippers Bush and Obama," or "I had eggs and toast and orange juice," however, would mean those things. Or eggs+toast and orange juice, I guess. As long as the person writing and the person reading know their grammar, there should be no ambiguity regarding what makes up separate items in a list.

[bottlegnomes]

No, they could both mean each. I think you completely missed the point of the second one.

For the first one, a comma denotes information that is informative but not necessary to the sentence. The meaning of the sentence doesn't change if it's "I danced with the strippers" or "I danced with the strippers, George Bush and Barack Obama." There's also the possibility that it's a direct address, which leads to the eggs, toast, and orange juice example. There is literally no way "I had eggs and toast and orange juice" could lead to the second picture because it's a direct address, and direct addresses require commas. Just ask Grandpa in this example:

We ate, Grandpa. (Telling Grandpa the speaker and someone else ate.)

We ate Grandpa. (The speaker and someone else ate Grandpa.)

I completely missed this.

Perhaps she just learned it can be both ways then~ Back when I was in high school I had always been taught that it was required (except mostly in high school they said when used before "and" commas shouldn't be used XD) but now I'm being taught it could be either way x3

Could be. But as of right now, it's incorrect. I don't so much have an issue with not using it, though I do a bit. What annoys me is when teachers "correct" students, like saying it's spelled alright, not all right.

Commas are fucking comicated, but as a general rule of thumb, if both sides are complete sentences (I went to the store, and she did, too.), use a comma. If only one side is (I went to the store and then for a run.), don't.

Edited December 6, 2012 by bottlegnomes

[Lord Raven]

^Google Purdue OWL. It'll answer pretty much any grammatical questions you might have.

Too much work. Speaking is way easier.