Levin has a sad life

[Original Alear]

then have that child grow to be old enough to take on Julius, and all this while hiding like crazy to not die.

Give the kid a horse and a leg ring and promote him ASAP XD The cycle of violence continues!!!

[Acacia Sgt]

Except Alvis didn't have Narga blood at all. Only Celice's children would have Narga blood in the event that Julia died, so Celice would have to have a boy and a girl, have them grow to puberty, and then have them mate and have a child and hope that Narga instead of Baldo is dominant, then have that child grow to be old enough to take on Julius, and all this while hiding like crazy to not die.

Good thing Julia's around.

Or, you know, we could kill him with Charisma'd Celice anyway, like we normally do.

Heh, though I'm pretty sure in this hypothetical scenario you can save yourself one generation and the incest, but then again this is lolJugdral if you have CelicexLinoan instead, then from the 2nd kid onwards you have Major Narga.

[bobflac]

Silly me for thinking that I know what I am talking about when I never played FE5.

Didn't all of Leaf's companions die or something?

[Swordsalmon]

Silly me for thinking that I know what I am talking about when I never played FE5.

Didn't all of Leaf's companions die or something?

After Chapter 19 of FE5, the rest of the game runs cocurrently with Chapter 8 of FE4, so it's likely that all the named characters lived. Though the CelicexLinoan idea wouldn't work.

It's stated that Linoan never marries in her ending. And she loves Dean, anyways.

[Acacia Sgt]

After Chapter 19 of FE5, the rest of the game runs cocurrently with Chapter 8 of FE4, so it's likely that all the named characters lived. Though the CelicexLinoan idea wouldn't work.

It's stated that Linoan never marries in her ending. And she loves Dean, anyways.

It was a hypothetical scenario anyway, pointing out there was an easier way to procure Major Narga blood in the case that Yulia died. Whether or not it could reasonably happen is another story.

But for the purpose of expanding on the topic, the circumstances may have it happen in the end. They would be, after all, the last remaining known traces of Heim's bloodline. Perhaps they'd be uncomfortable with the idea, but when the alternative is a prolonged reign of the Lopto sect, would they really think it twice?

[Renall]

The ultimate dilution of the Crusader bloodlines is inevitable anyway. It's only been a couple hundred years and half the lines are in dire danger of extinction, unless we assume the existence of people like Linoan all over (but even then, their blood must be already getting extremely thin).

Honestly, if you look at the worst possible scenario (subs only, Aless/Shanan/Julia dead, Arione and Altenna dead), there's only a couple bloodlines left and almost none of them Major. There'd be Celice, Cyas, Levin kind of, and uh... welp. The Tordo subs would keep that bloodline going slightly if they're alive I suppose, if Aideen is alive she preserves Minor Ulir, Leaf keeps a couple minor bloodlines going, and if Brian had a child s/he'd count for Major Neir I suppose.

Basically in the best-case scenario it's a miracle most or all of the bloodlines survive a war of that sort and it becomes a question how long it's going to be before somebody with Major blood dies in another war, an accident, of disease, etc. before having a child, leaving only minor bloodline members who would have to go all incesty to have a shot at restoring Major blood. And that's unlikely to happen, so over time one presumes more and more people in Jugdral will have intermingled Crusader blood, but all of it far too weak to have any effect.

[Acacia Sgt]

I wouldn't say there is a 'danger' of the bloodlines loosing the Crusaders' powers due to dilution. After all, there is still Major Blood around despite the many generations spent with it mingling with non-Holy Blood or of other kinds.

That said, I'd think there is little to no danger that any of the bloodlines (perhaps even that of Lopto's) of facing extinction. Seems a little improbable the hundreds of years only saw single-child generations. As people like Linoan (Heim's), Oifey (Baldo's), Hilda (Fala's), Shaagal (Hezul's), Holyn (Ovo's), Sylvia (Blaggi's), etc, show, perhaps the other bloodlines likewise have distant relatives that we just didn't saw around due to lack of importance.

[Gone2Ground]

Just as a note, there probably could by some freak genetic thing down the line as a series of distant relatives breed consecutively that the holy blood is restored out of sheer dumb luck. You know, like a recessive gene in both families that just doesn't get paired up until the eight child or something.

Not studied genetics since ninth grade so probably wrong here

[Original Alear]

Silly me for thinking that I know what I am talking about when I never played FE5.

Didn't all of Leaf's companions die or something?

It's...kind of...think of FE4 as not even appraising the size of Leaf's army, I guess.

In FE4, Leaf's army attacks Alster from Lenster (I think) or exhausts itself defending Lenster, and are under siege around the time the chapter starts.

In FE5, you control Leaf's army defending Lenster, Celice's army attacks Alster (about directly south of Lentser) and eases the pressure.

I think that it's likely that characters or units in Leaf's army DID die pretty massively, though, because in FE4, you hit Conote and then Manster in that order, but in FE5 Leaf and co hit Manster while Celice hits Conote.

Incidentally if Blume and/or Ishtar (I know she left with Julius in Fe4 but w/e) were tossed in with Reinhardt do you think that'd be a more epic endgame than Beldo and Liedrick?

[Renall]

Just as a note, there probably could by some freak genetic thing down the line as a series of distant relatives breed consecutively that the holy blood is restored out of sheer dumb luck. You know, like a recessive gene in both families that just doesn't get paired up until the eight child or something.

Not studied genetics since ninth grade so probably wrong here

The weird thing about Holy Blood is that Major blood is not diluted over time, or doesn't appear to be; Deirdre doesn't have any Baldo blood, and presumably neither did Sigurd's mother, but that doesn't appear to do anything. Yet Ethlin has only Minor blood. Also, Major blood apparently can't coexist in one person, but will split between kids (Levin/Briggid).

However, at the same time we know that you can strengthen blood up to Major. It's a significant part of Manfroy's plot (Minor apparently doesn't cut it or he could just do it with Alvis), and it's possible to do in-game with a Holyn/Ayra pairing (leading to at least three people in one generation with Major Odo). So lost bloodlines could be accidentally or deliberately restored... so the real question is, can Minor blood dilute further? If it can't, then one presumes that eventually every person in Jugdral will have at least one strain of Minor Holy Blood. And, depending upon breeding and spread, tons of people could have the same Major Holy Blood.

Now I'm envisioning a Jugdral a thousand years later where eight guys are fighting over the Swanchika and everybody has 70% growths in everything.

[Jotari]

it's possible to do in-game with a Holyn/Ayra pairing (leading to at least three people in one generation with Major Odo).

Wait do both of their children get major blood if that happens or am I forgetting about someone? Because if both do then that goes against the whole, only one child get's the major blood rule that stops me from using Swanchika.

[BBM]

Both children do get major blood in a Holyn/Ayra pairing. Maybe two minor bloods hooking up is different from one major blood and one non-blooded pairing up? Shrug. Or maybe it's different because Ayra's kids are twins.

[Jotari]

Both children do get major blood in a Holyn/Ayra pairing. Maybe two minor bloods hooking up is different from one major blood and one non-blooded pairing up? Shrug. Or maybe it's different because Ayra's kids are twins.

But Yuria and Yulius are twins too and they don't have the same holy blood set up. Then again it is a different scenario with both of them coming from minor-major pairings.

Edit: Actually after looking into it (on the Fire Emblem Wikia pages for them [http://fireemblem.wikia.com/wiki/Skasaher] [http://fireemblem.wikia.com/wiki/Lakche], it seems like only Skasher will get the Major blood if paired with Levin or Claud which implies the whole There Can be Only One rule is in effect (and may imply he is the older twin, though there was that case where Aless' family got the major blood back in history despite being from the younger' branch). Must be a result of twins and two minor blood pairings without the interference of any major blood or simply and over sight on the programmers part. Either way this topic seems to have gotten heavily derailed.

Edited January 2, 2013 by Jotari

[Acacia Sgt]

But Yuria and Yulius are twins too and they don't have the same holy blood set up. Then again it is a different scenario with both of them coming from minor-major pairings.

Edit: Actually after looking into it (on the Fire Emblem Wikia pages for them [http://fireemblem.wikia.com/wiki/Skasaher] [http://fireemblem.wikia.com/wiki/Lakche], it seems like only Skasher will get the Major blood is paired with Levin of Claud which implies the whole There Can be Only One rule is in effect (and may imply he is the older twin though there was that case with Aless' family got the major blood back in history despite being from the younger's branch). Must be a result of twins and two minor blood pairings without the interference of any major blood or simply and over sight on the programmers part. Either way this topic seems to have gotten heavily derailed.

Just as a final note, the same situation happens with ClaudexSylvia (yes, Claude has Major, but keep in mind that in any other situation only one kid gets the Major Blaggi), both Leen and Corpul will have Major Blaggi, and since they aren't twins, then being twins or not is not a factor. Just the fact both parents had the same Holy Blood, so it's not an oversight.

[Sartek]

If 2 people with the same holy blood have kids together, all of their kids will have major holy blood, that's a rule stated in-game and that's why such pairings are supposed to be prohibited.

[Renall]

One presumes if Deirdre only had Minor Narga that both Julius and Julia would have Major Lopt/Minor Narga or Fala. Actually, Celice should have Minor Lopt as well but doesn't. Narga/Lopt can coexist, so either it's a gameplay conceit or you seriously only get two types of blood maximum.

It's hard to guess since it's Magic Dragon B.S. anyway so it doesn't really have to obey any sensible rules of genetics.

[Kiriane]

I think Celice was hard coded, and the story reason is that 2 is the maximum.

[Renall]

I think Celice was hard coded, and the story reason is that 2 is the maximum.

While SF lists him as fixed, Celice is actually a child character, and can have different Holy Blood if you hack someone other than Sigurd as his father. All that matters is Deirdre's lover. Same thing with Leaf/Altenna if you hack Ethlin's lover. Julia and Aless are fixed characters, but the others apparently had to be coded as children to have inheritance work. EDIT: I'm not sure what happens if Celice's father is someone like Alec with no Holy Blood. Might he then have Narga/Lopt? I have no idea.

But yeah the story reasons I don't know. Obviously there's only one Celice canonically. But he should technically have Minor Lopt. As should Julia, actually (and Julius should have Minor Narga).

Edited January 3, 2013 by Renall

[Jotari]

While SF lists him as fixed, Celice is actually a child character, and can have different Holy Blood if you hack someone other than Sigurd as his father. All that matters is Deirdre's lover. Same thing with Leaf/Altenna if you hack Ethlin's lover. Julia and Aless are fixed characters, but the others apparently had to be coded as children to have inheritance work. EDIT: I'm not sure what happens if Celice's father is someone like Alec with no Holy Blood. Might he then have Narga/Lopt? I have no idea.

But yeah the story reasons I don't know. Obviously there's only one Celice canonically. But he should technically have Minor Lopt. As should Julia, actually (and Julius should have Minor Narga).

Does he have minor lopt if you hack him into having a blood less father? Or could he get major lopt if you hacked it so Alvis was his father? And if so would the code discard his narga or fala blood.

[Renall]

Does he have minor lopt if you hack him into having a blood less father? Or could he get major lopt if you hacked it so Alvis was his father? And if so would the code discard his narga or fala blood.

Alvis is not a viable father, at least not in Nightmare. As I said I don't know what happens to Celice in a bloodless father pairing. To be honest it's been years since I used Action Replay + Nightmare to screw around with illegal pairings.

One thing I do know: Pairing two females gives you the substitutes for both of them. I didn't check to see if pairing two males gives them lover crits and money sharing options though (Noish/Alec Eternal Bromance plz).

[Sartek]

Changed Diadora's lover to be Noish... Celice still comes with Baldo major and Narga minor so his blood is indeed Hard-coded. Changing Sigurd's blood does nothing at all too.

[Renall]

Changed Diadora's lover to be Noish... Celice still comes with Baldo major and Narga minor so his blood is indeed Hard-coded. Changing Sigurd's blood does nothing at all too.

Do you happen to have any way to check his growths? I wonder if that makes any difference. Did he inherit items from Noish?

It's possible Celice's pairing status is locked at an earlier point in the game, since his mother doesn't exist in Chapter 5. I'm not sure if the game would give you any opportunity to hack it though since I seem to recall they fall in love instantly. Might be possible to check it with Cuan and Ethlin? It may also be possible to hack the point where the game checks for that, but that'd be beyond my ability to do.

EDIT: Oh and I vaguely recall that only the female's pairing matters. Like, if you hack it to set Azel's lover to Sylvia and Briggid's lover to Azel but Sylvia's lover is nobody, Briggid will pair with Azel but Sylvia won't. I can't 100% remember whether that's true but I think who the male pairs with is meaningless in terms of kid production (but probably has an effect on lover crits and Give). Presumably this means you could in fact set every woman's lover to Sigurd, but I haven't tried.

Edited January 3, 2013 by Renall

[Sartek]

He did inherit Noish's item (a steel sword and the armor cutter at that time), his stats were crappier than with Sigurd and the fortune teller said his father was Noish. And he had Charge and critical instead of Pursuit.

And yes, only the females' lover slots matter (was funny to have Nanna, Tinny and Lana being half sisters with fala blood). But if memory serves, only the fist child to appear will inherit the father's items.

Funny thing, I remember fooling around and made Sigurd a pimp, while Delmud and Skasaha had major baldo, they only had A in sword.

Edited January 4, 2013 by Sartek

[Darros]

I've screwed around with Celice before. No matter who the father is, Celice has Major Baldo and Minor Narga, however if the father has different blood Celice also inherits that too. For instnace, Claude!Celice had Major Baldo, Major Blaggi, and Minor Narga, while Holyn!Celice had Major Baldo, Minor Odo, and Minor Narga. From Noish Celice wouldn't have any extra blood to inherit.

Funny thing, I remember fooling around and made Sigurd a pimp, while Delmud and Skasaha had major baldo, they only had A in sword.

This is weird though. From past experience I've never run into this.

Edited January 4, 2013 by Darros

[Sartek]

Worst thing is pairing Diadora with another girl or nobody.

Celice only has a broken sword (* rank with 246 uses and freeze the game if you try to fight with it), every major blood (even Lopt) except Noba (only minor), and Wrath, Pursuit, Continue, Charisma, Nihil, Prayer, Critical, Ambush, Charge, Live, Elite, Bargain

Edited January 4, 2013 by Sartek