charlie_ Posted January 5, 2013 Share Posted January 5, 2013 also if I die tonight after reading 40 pages I will be pissed Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charlie_ Posted January 5, 2013 Share Posted January 5, 2013 oh and n2 target was j00 since I don't think Iris ever mentioned it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
j00 Posted January 5, 2013 Share Posted January 5, 2013 I am Blue the girl and Boron is Green the Garyguy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charlie_ Posted January 5, 2013 Share Posted January 5, 2013 how is green a safeguard also I read that as gayguy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
j00 Posted January 5, 2013 Share Posted January 5, 2013 BACK TO FLAVOR I have a ditto that becomes Ninetales when safeguard and Green has a Ninetales in canon so it works but please don't focus on flavor Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Helios Posted January 5, 2013 Share Posted January 5, 2013 On phone so cant make good post but SB if youre town vote Boronwe can worry about Mancer later but Im still 90% sure hes town. Also I hope people realize itd be pretty stupid for me to clear half the game as town if I was scum since that just destroys my probablity of mislynching which is pretty stupid. Scum would want the town to be in complete confusion in this situation and then try and use it to try and control them...kinda like what Boron and j00 are trying to do! Will read super long posts later but in reality its pretty pointless since theres 0% chance this bs can change my mind. If the tone was different maybe but these last few posts clearly read panicking scum trying to go all out and maybe confuse the town (its something Id do) so paying attention to it is pointless. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sunwoo Posted January 5, 2013 Share Posted January 5, 2013 Helios, Shinori's "town" meta or not ... are you saying you're going to give him a pass whenever he acts like this on the basis that "he's acting with emotion so he's playing like town"? One day, people are going to wise up and learn to use meta like that to their advantage. Also, while I agree that Strawman hasn't been at all clean, I doubt that he's trying to "fuel fire" on Shinori. This feels like subtle buddying to me. Or this could be me looking too deeply into things. SB, I know you said you were writing as you were reading to save time, but would you PLEASE not take these kind of things out of context? Look back at the post in question. This is Straw's post. This is Helios saying he was fueling the fire. Does this legitimately look like "fueling the fire" to you? Because it didn't to me. Does that make me scum? One of Boron and j00 is scum based upon them both claiming Green. Unless I'm misrepping this somebody please halp I know j00 already answered this but again, he is Blue and I am Green. The other is Mancer. Not sure which of the first are scum, but I'm leaning Boron on it, although I need to reread to make sure (not now though, I've been reading for 3 and a half freaking hours). Okay, now tell me why I'm scum. Because right now from what I can tell your case on me is the quote from above which I already replied to and you getting mixed up on claims. Why is Helios town? Why don't you think he's scum? Because he cleared you? Scum can technically "clear" people too because they know of each other's alignments so they know who is not scum. Also, reading back on D3, I find it interesting that Helios is mainly going after the people who had disagreed with him at some point in the phase. He keeps on harping on me for my "defense" of JB, saying I did so to look good after defending a townie. He has taken my words completely out of context and I had already discussed this earlier in the phase. Who else thought that JB/Straw's flip didn't prove the other's alignment? j00. Do you know who else thought that trying to determine JB/Straw's alignment with the other's flip made no sense? Kay. She had tried to explain to Helios why his reasoning didn't work. She's also dead town, and everyone had pretty much agreed after her claim and her logs with Paperblade that she was highly unlikely to be scum. Here's the thing: if Helios is town and I am scum, then why is his case on me (and j00, in extension, because he's claiming we're buddies) full of holes? Why does he need to misrep me, omit stuff, and take things out of context if he has a legit case on me? A good chunk of his arguments are based on his PoE and assumptions, which is pretty much "because I said so." Where's the in-thread stuff that makes me scum? You conveniently ignore things that hurt your case, such as j00 pointing out that I claimed safeguard before him and my explaining and clarifying your misrep on me, and simplify it down to "look how they want to lynch everyone but themselves they're proven scum." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
j00 Posted January 5, 2013 Share Posted January 5, 2013 Then what are your reasons for clearing Mancer plz If we're going to say GUYS I KNOW I'M TOWN I'm not lynching Boron because everyone's pushing us on the same team and I know I'm town. She could still be scum for what I know, but then I'd doubt she's in league with you or Mancer because you'd be idiots to bus her at this phase. Sure, she could be on a team with say, Elieson and we'd never notice but Helios, your reasons for lynching her are awful and I'd like you to have a go at my logic to convince me. You sound far more desperate than I do, you've ignored all my points and if you're town I'd like it if you'd argue with more logic than you've done this phase. Likewise, I find Boron acting a lot more logical than you and Mancer. Saying "From my point of view Boron and j00 must be scum" is silly because as Boron said, from her point of view it's just as easy to say that for the same reason you and Mancer must be scum. Also, Boron herself would had to have lost it really hard if she'd be alright with a modkill of her if she was scum. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sunwoo Posted January 5, 2013 Share Posted January 5, 2013 Also I hope people realize itd be pretty stupid for me to clear half the game as town if I was scum since that just destroys my probablity of mislynching which is pretty stupid. Scum would want the town to be in complete confusion in this situation and then try and use it to try and control them...kinda like what Boron and j00 are trying to do! Uh, Helios, you do realize that this goes both ways, right? We're in potential MYLO right now. Even if it's only "potential," we could still get screwed over after a mislynch, and scum only needs one more. Complete confusion can get anyone lynched, but if you "clear" half the game that you know is town and try to push a mislynch on the other half you haven't cleared ... does it matter? It's still the mislynch that scum wants. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
j00 Posted January 5, 2013 Share Posted January 5, 2013 Also you clearing half the game is not necessarily a town tell, only scum are sure what aligment people are at this point anyway. It also makes it easier for you to lead people to the lynches you want, and why would scum want everyone to be utterly confused at this point? If people are truly confused and vote randomly at this stage, it's a 1/3 chance to hit scum. If you "clear" three people and know that the rest are all townies then you've a better chance on convincing people to vote one of the three townies that haven't been cleared, ensuring they vote town. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charlie_ Posted January 5, 2013 Share Posted January 5, 2013 Mostly because I thought you two claimed the same thing and I felt j00 was townier. Yes I missed some things because reading this whole thread in detail would have taken another few hours, and I can miss/forget things out of that whole 40 odd pages. I'm still pretty sure Mancer is scum though. I'll have to look into Helios more though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MancerNecro Posted January 5, 2013 Share Posted January 5, 2013 also for this one double line spaces are sometimes what scum use to make them seem like they're contributing more SB, this is pure grasping. Look at all the other games I've played recently (.hack, Schoolteacher, etc.), I've used double spaces in most of my recent games. It's a habit I picked up. So, by your logic, I'm scum in all of them? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Helios Posted January 5, 2013 Share Posted January 5, 2013 Uh, Helios, you do realize that this goes both ways, right? We're in potential MYLO right now. Even if it's only "potential," we could still get screwed over after a mislynch, and scum only needs one more. Complete confusion can get anyone lynched, but if you "clear" half the game that you know is town and try to push a mislynch on the other half you haven't cleared ... does it matter? It's still the mislynch that scum wants. No it's stupid because if I clear 3 or 4 people and ONE of the people I didn't clear flip scum (like you or j00) then I'm obviously going to get lynched. The best decision for scum to do in this situation is basically trying to get some momentum on some townie by taking advantage of confusion to cause a mislynch, which I'm NOT doing but you two ARE doing. This is probably really clear to me since I've been scum so many times lately and know what the thought process is like (I was in this same situation in .hack// and did the exact same thing for example) but maybe for other people it isn't. If Elie, Mancer, or SB really wants me to answer j00 or Boron's post to make them feel less paranoid then I guess I will, but otherwise it's a waste of time and less beneficial for me to do so. The point is I'm pretty much obvtown. My actions this game make little sense at best to be scum (why would I push Strawman so aggressively, how could I fakeclaim a role I've never even heard of?, why would I keep discussion alive, and if you guys (SB, Mancer, Elieson) take a look at that it's pretty clear. Once you realize that I'm a cleared townie (which SB and Mancer should know) then it's obvious that I'm not lying about my role and its results (what's the point of lying as town in this situation?). Therefore, my POV becomes town's POV and the rest of the game is simple. That's why I see no reason to argue about this and waste time. If you really want we can NL, I'll battle Elieson, and SB docs me so that I can't die. If I don't get experience from battling Elieson, then he's telling the truth and it's 15892370450897243% confirmed that Boron and j00 are the scumteam. But really that's a waste of everyone's time because there's a 99% chance Boron/j00 are the remaining scum and in FE I'd attack someone with a 99% chance lol. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Helios Posted January 5, 2013 Share Posted January 5, 2013 SB, this is pure grasping. Look at all the other games I've played recently (.hack, Schoolteacher, etc.), I've used double spaces in most of my recent games. It's a habit I picked up. So, by your logic, I'm scum in all of them? I think he was kidding lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BBM Posted January 5, 2013 Author Share Posted January 5, 2013 Votecount: Boron (1): Helios, Helios (2): Boron, j00 Not Voting (3): SB, Elieson, Mancer With 6 players alive, it takes 3 votes to lynch at deadline and 4 to hammer. There are 30 hours left in the phase. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MancerNecro Posted January 5, 2013 Share Posted January 5, 2013 note that I'm writing this as I read to save time. If Helios is cleared, doesn't that make me clear? I already said earlier that it's possible that you are a non-Leader Team Rocket trainer. BBM would definitely add in a role like that to mess with Helios's role. Mancer, you spent most of last phase tunneling JB from what I remember. Just saying. Which I have already admitted my reads are wrong. Do you expect me to be a perfect scum hunter? I can only try to scum hunt based on what's been posted in thread, and what JB posted had not been that good at all. This feels like subtle buddying to me. Or this could be me looking too deeply into things. Point out where the buddying is, please. Hey, what did Mancer vote Helios for earlier? Confidence? Now he's oh so confident himself it's not scummy, is it? Taking my posts out of context? I voted Helios for being too confident over things that are not confirmed, over his own speculation. I'm confident, over scum reads based on what's already posted in the thread that everyone can see. See the difference? I don't like the fact that you're making use of the same tactic as Helios to attack me (misrepping me). Nowhere in the rules does it say all night results are accurate, and we know they aren't because there's a damn godfather flip. Try harder. Nowhere did it say that your results are confirmed inaccurate. If Helios can use his results as if they're 100% true, why can't I? I don't see how having a Godfather will mess with my role, since my role is based around hearing Pokemon talk about their actions. The weakness with my role is that both the League and the Team Rocket players might have Pokemon. Godfathers only mess with inspection roles, so I expect that they'd only mess with Baldrick's role, since that is the only thing resembling an inspection role for town Mancer also tried to push a lynch on the closest person to confirmed town by twisting his words, and feebly pushing that governor is possibly scum. While it's possible, it's unlikely as hell especially since town have a bunch of nerfed roles with alternate/specific night restrictions. Adding Godfather to that just proves that this case is terrible. I said that it is a possibility. Is Elieson 100% confirmed town? Does him being Governor prove his alignment? Is what I'm saying completely false? This screams backing yourself up for JB's townflip. I was genuinely frustrated. I have never gotten a real informative role before, only weak roles like this. This feels weak to me. Mancer is trying to a push a lynch on basically everybody in the game. Does this not look scummy to anybody else? One of Boron and j00 is scum based upon them both claiming Green. Unless I'm misrepping this somebody please halp The other is Mancer. Not sure which of the first are scum, but I'm leaning Boron on it, although I need to reread to make sure (not now though, I've been reading for 3 and a half freaking hours). read everything but j00's latest posts I need a break I don't see how I'm scummy for trying to push lynches on people I think is scum. None of you are pushing any lynches, and if we leave things as they are, we might have ended up in a UL situation. The point of mafia is for everyone to push lynches on everyone else with evidence, then for town going onto those lynches that they collectively feel is the best. Btw, can the fact that you're trying to push my lynch now be considered scummy by your logic? Regarding that final part: What if j00 and Boron had coordinated to have claimed something that immediately clears the other when one of them flip? What would that mean, tell me? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
j00 Posted January 5, 2013 Share Posted January 5, 2013 No it's stupid because if I clear 3 or 4 people and ONE of the people I didn't clear flip scum (like you or j00) then I'm obviously going to get lynched. No you're not. If town is lynched today scum win. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MancerNecro Posted January 5, 2013 Share Posted January 5, 2013 Gah, I just realised I forgot a bold close tag in there. Mancer also tried to push a lynch on the closest person to confirmed town by twisting his words, and feebly pushing that governor is possibly scum. While it's possible, it's unlikely as hell especially since town have a bunch of nerfed roles with alternate/specific night restrictions. Adding Godfather to that just proves that this case is terrible. This part of the quote is said by SB, the rest of the bolded areas are my words. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
j00 Posted January 5, 2013 Share Posted January 5, 2013 Why would SB know you're a cleared townie? And why would it be hard to fakeclaim a role no one's heard of? If anything, no one can be sure you're lying as it is an unusual role. I don't buy that role because it's heavily reliant on flavor and I've mentioned the problem with Mewtwo, Paper's role, who is a really strong pokemon but not a trainer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Helios Posted January 5, 2013 Share Posted January 5, 2013 No you're not. If town is lynched today scum win. Except no since it's only potential MYLO and not 100% MYLO which means it's not a fo sho win. So clearing everyone but two people only to not get a successful kill would be an autoloss which would be extremely stupid. It's obvious I can't convince you or Boron to change your minds since you're the scum team so I'm just going to focus on what Elie, Mancer, and SB want me to say. though again SB and Mancer should see me as cleared town and Elieson is silenced sooo I really don't have to do anything. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
j00 Posted January 5, 2013 Share Posted January 5, 2013 No it's stupid because if I clear 3 or 4 people and ONE of the people I didn't clear flip scum (like you or j00) then I'm obviously going to get lynched. I just can't stress how stupid this is. Let me spell it out for you: We're six players left, two scum. If we mislynch today, we're down to three town, two scum, and scum kills a townie at night and achieve parity. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
j00 Posted January 5, 2013 Share Posted January 5, 2013 The potential MYLO is only if there's not two scum, or say, one scum and one ITP left. You want to discuss that possibility too? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
j00 Posted January 5, 2013 Share Posted January 5, 2013 And whyyyyy should SB see you as cleared town Because you cleared him? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Helios Posted January 5, 2013 Share Posted January 5, 2013 Kay was torn apart by telekinesis rip in pieces and then a thunderbolt struck elieson and he couldn't talk (aside from voting and unvoting) It is now Day 4. you have 72 hours. with 6 alive it takes 4 to hammer and 3 to deadline lynch Town is in Potential MYLO Town is in Potential MYLO Potential MYLO Potential MYLO Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
j00 Posted January 5, 2013 Share Posted January 5, 2013 Okay, potential MYLO. Then please explain how Boron and I can be a team because that makes two scum and We're six players left, two scum. If we mislynch today, we're down to three town, two scum, and scum kills a townie at night and achieve parity. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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