Tales of Symphonia Mafia Ver. 1.0

[Prims]

The entire post is just piggybacking off other people's reads.

Voting for people using borrowed reasoning isn't inherently scummy.

lol

I'd appreciate it if Obviam did a summary of who he finds the scummiest, though, cuz he goes "hey lots of people are scummier than Shin" but his post is in the order of the thread so I can't tell what his priorities are. I don't feel like he's piggybacking off other people's reads in any case.

CR still has yet to explain anything I've asked her to explain. Shin should say whether he finds CR scummy or not. I still would rather a CR lynch to a Shin one; Shin's logic has been questionable here and there but he's scumhunting and I don't see newbscum intent in it. Also Shin don't talk OC in a NOC game wtf

[BBM]

>_> That looks rather contradictory, but what I meant when I said the bit about voting people using borrowed reasoning not being inherently scummy, I meant it specifically in context of CR, because she's new. I think that a new player sheeping isn't as bad as a more experienced player sheeping.

My thoughts about CR is that while what she's done is suspicious, they're the sort of things that newbs do whether they're town or scum, so overall I think she's less likely to be scum from that. So a null read I suppose.

[Prims]

i don't really expect somebody who went until 30ppp page 6 without catching up to be a paragon of originality unless that person is an extreme hipster

plus the levity scumread is definitely not parroted even though i disagree with it.

levity why do you find obviam scummy aside from just hating everybody who votes you

[BBM]

Another thing I didn't like is that Obviam said earlier that meta is always valid and then dismissed Bizz's meta read on Prims by saying "but Prims is too smart for that!", which is the argument against every meta reasoning- that a good player can turn that around against you.

[Ciarre]

In retrospect, switching wasn't the best decision but what was I supposed to do in that situation? I fumbled around, as you all pointed out, because I didn't know what to do. But as to why I switched votes, that was because I felt weird about Shin and I wanted to hear something from him first. Marth I don't find as scummy any more.

Though there is an interesting point about CR. she does seem to want to keep low on the spotlight now, ever since her ball drop on SK!Shin. I didn't really pay much attention to it earlier, but now I'm wondering if she knows something regarding SK (because there's no way she knows how an SK would act after a game or two).

No, I don't, really. It says that I know that a certain character is in the game, but I can't talk about that because underlined.

[BBM]

Wait what? Your role PM tells you that a certain character is in the game?

[Helios]

levity why do you find obviam scummy aside from just hating everybody who votes you

I swear this is a towntell on her part though. Yay meta

In retrospect, switching wasn't the best decision but what was I supposed to do in that situation? I fumbled around, as you all pointed out, because I didn't know what to do. But as to why I switched votes, that was because I felt weird about Shin and I wanted to hear something from him first. Marth I don't find as scummy any more.

No, I don't, really. It says that I know that a certain character is in the game, but I can't talk about that because underlined.

Why don't you find Marth scummy anymore again?

You just went full noobtown lol. Try to keep some things like this to yourself until at least later in the game.

Wait what? Your role PM tells you that a certain character is in the game?

Lolfishing. So yeah we're lynching either BBM or Marth today, the real question is who.

[BBM]

See it as fishing, but I was trying to clarify what CR was trying to say.

Anyways, I can claim now if you want. it's far away from phase end but if I have to claim near phase end, I don't think it'll result in an optimal usage of my role.

[Percivalé]

I'm going to be pumping out some long posts here in a second and I would spoiler them but I want Elie to be able to read them on his phone, so pardon me guys

levity why do you find obviam scummy aside from just hating everybody who votes you

well one if you're going to vote me when my chances of being lynched today are like 5% (and I'm town) and then refuse to directly address anyone else I'm going to find that scummy idc what you think of that

anyway I'm on my computer now so I can pull up posts (I kinda wish you would have waited before asking me because I wasn't going to go without explaining it, I said I would after I had laptop access)

which is actually what I'm going to get into! but first, exhibit A:

Eli, I think there's a tag for linking directly to posts with those post numbers. Might want to try it.

Attempt to be helpful.

Someone said RVS is over but getting in here this late and reading everything at once (lol 12 drive home) it honestly looks more like it's still going. You silly childrens need to grow up.

Didn't really explain why he thought this, just said it and proceeded to talk everyone down. Empty words.

I disdain the martywagon

why? No explanation here either.

and my original instinct was to ##Vote: Bizz for being ridiculous. I believe I'll go with it because a good 3 of you appear to be playing weak and Bizz is the extreme case.

Remember this part here that I got on him about? He answered me with this:

To answer Bizz, my 3 people was actually an estimate because I had been skimming. The people playing poorly are you, mancer and SB.

Don't just go and say shit without actually reading the thread first. I don't know why you think spewing out empty insults and inflating your ego counts as actually playing, it's just a bunch of hollow bullshit and none of what you've been saying has actually been all that direct. It reads as dodgy and really background. That big post that delves into like the first part of the thread is the only really memorable thing he has in this game so far

(also I wasn't fond of the "listen to Prims and Elie they know what they're talking about" because that mindset is antitown in nature; blindly following other players for 'knowing what they're doing' isn't good town play and I don't completely trust anyone in this game atm anyway)

Admittedly this isn't factoring in lurkers as much as it probably should; likely the scum are hiding around the middle or bottom of the votal and activity lists.

This rings me too. HE sets apart a line stating "oh don't worry I'm not leaving out the lurkers" but then doesn't actually do anything about it. This is the thing about his play in this game: he keeps saying words but it feels like he could dig a lot deeper than he actually is.

thomas be patient I just woke up like 10 minutes ago

Exhibit B: There was also this that I found scummy at first because he didn't post any big promised content like he said he would but he just recently did so my point on this is moot now

Not that I don't see scum do this a lot though, and the way he's been addressing BBM also leaves me with a bad taste in my mouth

Bizz sweetie I would never try to emotionally frazzle you.

I don't believe this actually lol

Your persistence on me is weird because it's not actually getting anything else done. You gave, like, some opinions on Marth/BBM wagons and opinions on the newbie/OC discussion but there's nothing else you're really doing.

You do a better job than I ever could on your own

Okay you people talk a lot, I need to like stop and read all this shit at some point. NOTNOWTHOUGH because I'm going to play more PSO

fell asleep while posting this oops

ok

I kinda want to move on from Obviam now though, I think it's clear why I think he's full of shit and I don't want people tacking on "it's because he's voting you" because it's not. He hasn't actually done anything really noteworthy and it's funny that he thinks he is. Please put your ego away and play the game now.

@Marth wagon, I actually didn't really get him as scummy as BBM, even though I do think he spent a more time defending himself and getting frustrated over the 'no contribution' thing than he should have. But I need to reread from page 7 (I'm 20ppp lol) so give me a second to straighten that out.

Also I think BBM's attempt at getting suspicion on Shin "because he's pulling the newbie card" is scummy because 1. I didn't really see what Shin was doing as how he interpreted it in the first place, and 2. that's like one of the easiest cases you could pull a mislynch on and that just really bugs me.

[Percivalé]

SB's play has been weak but idk if I find it scummy. I do think he was skimming the thread a bit too much, as evidenced by some of the weird conclusions he jumped to, and he hasn't been memorable recently but I do think he could make a super easy mislynch for pretty much posting some little things and then disappearing from the game again (and I don't think his lynch would give us as much information as Marth's or BBM's lynch, so if he gets lynched and he's town I really think it'd put us at a disadvantage). JB's also a little similar but in his case it's more like he started out strong but he's kind of fizzed out.

[Shinori]

I'm pretty sure votals are about the same. I'll do them in an hour or two. Busy at the moment.. But about 24 hours left in phase at the moment.

[Percivalé]

By the way I still really want a BBM lynch, I haven't found a reason to remove it yet because there's a lot he's said that just feels like he's trying to pander to other peoples' opinions

[Helios]

BBM should just claim because I'm pretty sure atm either him or Marth is getting lynched.

[Percivalé]

TBH reading through Marth's earlier content did make me feel wary of him but I'm not sure what to think about the emotion that was evident in some of his bebuttals

[Percivalé]

rebuttals*

okay back to reading now

[Helios]

TBH reading through Marth's earlier content did make me feel wary of him but I'm not sure what to think about the emotion that was evident in some of his bebuttals

Look at the content of his rebuttals though and how he kinda sidesteps from confronting what people are accusing him of and instead tries to put blame on others. His reads aren't all that great either like I mentioned earlier (actually could you should take another look at what I have to say about Marth and maybe that might give you an idea of why I still have my vote on him over BBM). Emotion is a nulltell and I really think he's just annoyed that he's about to get killed early in a game again regardless of alliance.

[Prims]

BBM should just claim because I'm pretty sure atm either him or Marth is getting lynched.

we still got 24 hours and marth is the more popular target. why would there be a claim this early

to be honest i think marth is likely to flip town even though i don't disagree with his wagon, just comes off like a dude getting hounded over small mistakes and his rebuttals seem like town indignance

i still would really like a seregil lynch but nobody wants to vote her with me

i keep forgetting jb is in the game, gotta read him

[Shin]

I'm not too sure how to reply to Eli, I was hoping I was getting somewhere :P. SB seems to have ignored me for the most part so I'm still waiting on him.

@ Prims: It's a given that CR's not too sure what to do. It makes sense that a new player, regardless of town or scum, would attempt to follow what's generally happening as to not stick out. However, she started something against me and didn't really have too much to go by. She then let BBM take over, figuring that a more experienced ally would be able to pin the case better than herself. BBM also seems to be looking out for her. This might be out of kindness, I don't know how nice BBM is, but I've got a feeling that it's to avoid losing a scum-buddy this early on. Also, my bad, won't happen again... ever!

CR, funny how it's now you mention you wanted to hear my case. Earlier, you just thought I was weird and didn't make sense, not because you wanted to hear me out first.

Edited December 29, 2012 by Shin

[Prims]

Votals since there haven't been any in several pages:

(5) Bluedoom: Helios, scorri, SB, JB, Mancer

(4) BBM: Bizz, Iris, Elieson, Shin

(3) SB: Bluedoom, Shin, J00,

(2) Shin: Seregil, BBM

(1) Seregil: Iris, Prims,

(1) Bizz: Aleph

Gonna refer to these and give my thoughts

i was thinking helios' recent content was town but then he accuses bbm of fishing only to request a claim from bbm early when helios is voting marf. care to explain why you did this?

[Prims]

fixing mistakes:

(5) Bluedoom: Helios, scorri, SB, JB, Mancer

(4) BBM: Bizz, Iris, Elieson, Shin

(2) SB: Bluedoom, j00

(2) Shin: Seregil, BBM

(1) Seregil: Prims

(1) Bizz: Aleph

[Percivalé]

Actually I forgot to say! A Seregil lynch doesn't sound too bad either so iiif we did that I wouldn't be opposed to it; I only think a Marth lynch would be good in terms of information. I'm not suspicious of him enough to want to lynch him because I think he's scum like I do BBM, despite some of the vibes that I did get from his defenses.

[BBM]

I don't really think Marth is scummy to be honest. His early posts were lacking, but the later ones have had some good points in them and I don't see much wrong with him. Plus a bunch of people have just been voteparking him from early in the day even though he's played differently since then. I'd prefer lynching Shin > Obviam > CR out of the people I've seen other people find scummy. I don't really want to lynch Marth or SB.

I was thinking of claiming early because I don't want to have to claim with an hour left in the phase if Marth claims something that nobody wants to lynch.

[Prims]

OKAY so

Already voiced my thoughts on Marfwagon. Would prefer BBM lynch over that, I agree with Bizz about him pandering and his #149 misrepresents why I was actually voting CR. The case on Shin (whose wagon I still wouldn't support over CR's) seems more like IIoA during the initial vote and calling Shin's votes "nitpicky" is using a buzzword. How is a newb voting with cases you find weak scummier than CR jumping off a wagon after being called out for sheeping, then ignoring all requests for elaboration?

I'm still unconvinced that SB is scum. Refer to the tell I mentioned regarding him doing something I had just called out as scummy a few posts earlier. Since then he hasn't really done too much though; like with Marth I can't really object to the wagon but I don't think he's that terrible.

j00 is questionable to me because he isn't actually putting much effort into reading the players on the Marth wagon except for SB despite claiming he'd be okay with lynching anybody on Marth's wagon. He called out CR as sheepy and an unobjectionable lynch, but next post she's just a newb being a newb? Also, I can't tell what he actually thinks about JB despite the callout. This makes me think he picked a random Marf voter to harp on without putting much effort into scumhunting on the rest of the wagon.

Mancer still hasn't gotten any better since the last time I called him out as scummy but he hasn't done shit due to IRL. JB's Marth vote doesn't read scummy to me but he doesn't seem to be paying too much attention to the rest of the game outside of a few one-liner questions. Think he should post more content, otherwise I can see him ending up in my list of desire PoE lynches lategame.

I don't support lynches on Levity or Obviam; both read pretty town to me. Can go into this if people want but neither are actually getting wagoned instead of just being passively suspected.

Wait where the hell did scorri go

[Helios]

we still got 24 hours and marth is the more popular target. why would there be a claim this early

to be honest i think marth is likely to flip town even though i don't disagree with his wagon, just comes off like a dude getting hounded over small mistakes and his rebuttals seem like town indignance

i still would really like a seregil lynch but nobody wants to vote her with me

i keep forgetting jb is in the game, gotta read him

More popular target by one vote, and if activity keeps up the way this is we're not going to get anything done until there's like 4 hours left in the phase. It's gonna be stupid if BBM claims some PR then, only a few people are around, and then they all panic and wagon someone else and we end up getting a mislynch. At the stage of the game right now this is probably the best way to get things to progress.

Not really sure what to think of this thought so I'll just take a mental note.

Dude she's noobtown and lynching her right now gives us barely any info. She's not a priority.

Yeah he's really unmemorable right now and needs to post more of his thoughts.

i was thinking helios' recent content was town but then he accuses bbm of fishing only to request a claim from bbm early when helios is voting marf. care to explain why you did this?

Well he was the one who said he would claim so I'm just saying he may as well because he keeps looking scummier and scummier and at this stage claiming might be the only thing that can change people's minds. So I'm not really requesting that he claim but rather agreeing that it's probably best he does claim. It's the easiest way to keep discussion moving forward rather than having things stagnate.

[Jaybee]

apologies for being kinda absent yesterday i was in a pokemon conquest mood and not a mafia mood

rereading bbm/marth time

also not too keen on lynching cr because i was one of the few who kinda got her into this game and it would suck to lynch a newb on d1