Void Mafia - Game Over

[MancerNecro]

The main problem is that BBM stupidly claimed that his item was important to practically everyone.

If there's a scum Thief or something, wouldn't that attract their attention?

I even know that he's told Bluedoom about his item, and some other players know about it too. I'm the sole suspect because I'm the only one who claimed?

Also, what makes BBM so believable? AFAIK, BBM might not have an item and is trying to implicate me as well.

I'm not expecting people to believe me, but I'm expecting people to not swallow up BBM's words like some bible.

[MancerNecro]

The way I see it, the following things can be deduced from N0 with 100% certainty:

1. Either I am lying, Mancer is lying, or there is another role (probably anti-town) that can interfere with item control.

2. Either Mancer is lying, the jailer is lying, or Mancer's role outprioritizes the jailer's.

Looking at number 2, the third option seems kind of unlikely to me. Out of Mancer and the jailer, I find the jailer to be more trustworthy. So it makes me think that Mancer is lying there. Then looking back at number 1, FMPOV, I know I'm not lying, so I'm looking at the second and third options. Since number 2 already makes me think that Mancer is lying, for number 1, it seems more likely to me that Mancer is lying again than that there is another role that interferes with item control.

So I'm sorry, but you just saying that you didn't do it isn't enough by itself for me to believe you.

So why should people believe you? You're doing that "FMPOV" thing that Helios did in Pokemon Mafia that is proven to not be strong enough reasons to pull on a lynch.

Town, what makes BBM so much more believable than me?

[Elieson]

Mancer is lying about this item shuffle, anther item shuffler exists, or maybe both :0

I'm starting to see this as not a worthy case to lynch Mancer over. I don't like his role, but lynching on role spec is generally a junk tactic and I don't intend to follow just that.

Finger points to Baldrixk for that super jump and quick vote, but I'll look into that later.

Also I'm home from the hospital. Some medicine made it all better, and she's got her fever and puking under control:)

[Elieson]

Also Mancer, BBMs arguments include a reasonable explanation that works him is as a potential liar. His defenses say all likely possibilities from an objective view while yours are all from a subjective view. We don't know he is town or not, but he argues it including all possibilities.

You only argue as though you are town and we should be assuming that, when we had no reason to

[Deliriyum]

Has anyone actually spoken to Core yet? If not can someone sub in for him?

Anyways, if you want to contact me, IRC or PMs work best.

[MancerNecro]

Also Mancer, BBMs arguments include a reasonable explanation that works him is as a potential liar. His defenses say all likely possibilities from an objective view while yours are all from a subjective view. We don't know he is town or not, but he argues it including all possibilities.

You only argue as though you are town and we should be assuming that, when we had no reason to

Point out and quote them.

He is arguing everything from his POV and saying he can't be lying and stuffs. Read it again. He dismisses his points for places that could be convenient to him.

Why is he town leader? What makes him more confirmed town than me? Answer that.

For the Jailer contradiction, I'm not sure what the Jailer does per se, but it might be possible that my Barter just deals with items and does not count as a full visit.

[Deliriyum]

Actually, PMs suck. my skype is core_vo.

[Elieson]

From what I can see, most of the case on me is BBM's missing item? I did not target BBM last Night. Sho has even proven that I chose to target Shinori, I had no other motivations to target BBM, either.

I'm saying I'm town because I'm really town. Only I know it, but I felt that I had to ascertain it so that you guys know what my train of thought is.

If I really targeted BBM intentionally, why isn't Sho's log doubted? It would mean he's lying and trying to cover up for me, right? So why am I the only one being suspected at the moment?

Above. Subjective. I'm town, and I can't really prove it, but believe me because it makes sense to me.

I'm saying if this happened, we should pursue it, as it's logical to me.

The way I see it, the following things can be deduced from N0 with 100% certainty:

1. Either I am lying, Mancer is lying, or there is another role (probably anti-town) that can interfere with item control.

2. Either Mancer is lying, the jailer is lying, or Mancer's role outprioritizes the jailer's.

Looking at number 2, the third option seems kind of unlikely to me. Out of Mancer and the jailer, I find the jailer to be more trustworthy. So it makes me think that Mancer is lying there. Then looking back at number 1, FMPOV, I know I'm not lying, so I'm looking at the second and third options. Since number 2 already makes me think that Mancer is lying, for number 1, it seems more likely to me that Mancer is lying again than that there is another role that interferes with item control.

So I'm sorry, but you just saying that you didn't do it isn't enough by itself for me to believe you.

Above. I'm not saying I'm town or not, but these are logical possibilities and are worth discussing. Consider them.

[MancerNecro]

End conclusion: I'm obviously lying, right?

What about the possibility I brought up that Barter does not count as a visit due to it dealing only with items?

BBM said that priorities could be a reason, but dismissed that in favour of calling me a liar again.

Has BBM even thought about his own points? No, he just wants to implicate me.

[Xinnidy]

The main problem is that BBM stupidly claimed that his item was important to practically everyone.

...He did? I heard he had an item, but he didn't mention how valuable was the item, specifically.

If there's a scum Thief or something, wouldn't that attract their attention?

I even know that he's told Bluedoom about his item, and some other players know about it too. I'm the sole suspect because I'm the only one who claimed?

Admittedly, you bring a good point... IF there is a scum thief AND if that isn't you and you didn't just fakeclaimed Item Swapper to everybody.

Overall, I think the tone in which you're trying to defend yourself isn't good, Mancer. But I'm willing to postpone a lynch if possible if I can get information first.

Firstly, Baldrick and 13th, would you mind expanding on your reason to vote on Mancer?

[MancerNecro]

Do not even go to attacking my tone, ever. I'm irritated enough in real life. I'm giving up paying attention in lessons to respond to you guys as we. After all the antagonising that you guys have done on me, don't even go on to comment on my tone.

[13th]

OK, while I admit my old post looked scummy, I jumped the Mancer wagon out of more scum reads than BBM. BBM's only real scum reads I got were his points, which had something triggering my scumdar enough, mainly because the case has struck me as fishy. More fishy on his part as to yours, but one thing strikes me, and I'm sure you covered it already with me, but Why would you tell him you had an item if you knew he dealt with items. Something just does not seem right.

Again, as Mancer continues to show up as scummy, I am still going to hold my vote.

For reference, next time I get on will be for approx. 10 minutes tomorrow morning (in 8 hours) and then for maybe an hour or three in 16 hours. School starting is ALWAYS fun.

[13th]

Do not even go to attacking my tone, ever. I'm irritated enough in real life. I'm giving up paying attention in lessons to respond to you guys as we. After all the antagonising that you guys have done on me, don't even go on to comment on my tone.

That was a horrible reason. I got aggravated when playing mafia, but I try not to let it get to us. We're only being antagonistic because you keep giving us reason to interrogate you.

And its your choice to give up lesson attention. Don't blame that on us.

[Xinnidy]

Mancer, please calm down and take a small break from mafia. You're being too emotional and too sensitive towards people that are doubting you, that doesn't help anyone, especially yourself.

[BBM]

Mancer, those were my reasons for voting for you. I'm justified in using FMPOV for my own reasons, aren't I? I never said anyone else had to vote for you due to that. For everyone else, they can look at the possibility that I'm lying as well, and decide for themselves whether or not I'm lying.

Also, 13th, I told you this in private and I'll repeat it- I told EVERYONE I had an item. I did it in exchange for info. And yeah, I don't regret telling him because he was otherwise planning to just target random people. I thought that telling him my item was important and not to touch it was less risky than him targeting me randomly or because he thought I was Cult Leader (which he did early N0 because he thought I slipped). And as for me telling everyone I had an important item, that's not true. It was only Mancer (and maybe Sho, can't remember) whom I told that it was important. Everyone else just knew that I had an item, and some of them learnt exactly what item it was. It could have leaked to the mafia that way as well, I guess.

And seriously Mancer? If you're busy in class nobody is going to lynch you specifically because you couldn't respond right away.

[Deliriyum]

I could see Mancer flipping as either town or mafia. I'm leaning more towards mafia I guess.

In other news,

guys i have conclusive proof

##Vote mancer (L-6)

...

##unvote

just kidding

anyhow i don't really support this wagon in that it seems a little bit opportunistic, but i will say that mancer is not looking really good to me either right now

This doesn't sit well with me...its like you're trying to lighten the mood? idk

@scorri:

it's ED1

i'm not sure i can support any wagon yet, not on this little evidence

i did end up with quite a few suspicions (not necessarily alignment-related but whatever) off of this little thing though that (if i'm right) i'm decently sure that the people it relates to would rather not be outed

I don't understand why you wouldn't out your suspicions, but okay.

that last line was pretty scummy as hell

good observation.

also just because you've claimed doesn't prove anything

good observation. I would honestly expect a vote here or the previous post, based on your reactions.

just because you have logs doesn't mean that you actually went through with them

although this wagon is kind of super opportunistic and i still do'nt know why there are so many people on it (what, 5 people? That's a lot for ED1 IMO)

I just feel like Cam is going back and forth a lot. Not really suspicious without knowing Mancer's alignment, I guess.

[Ema Skye]

As far as I know, Mancer's claim that his role was successful tonight does contradict the information I have.

Not going to place a vote yet because I need to ask for role clarification from the hosts in regards to my role.

[MancerNecro]

BBM, if you told everyone you had an item, why is it solely my fault that your item was taken?

I'm not sure why my results contradicts Loocy's but I know I'm definitely not lying.

I'll go into more detail and try to formulate my thoughts more logically when I'm at home and when I've calmed down a lot. I'm getting dual pressure from school, friends and internet now that I can't focus my thoughts clearly anymore.

If you guys decide to lynch me in this time period, then I won't really have much to say anymore and I'm sorry town, for your loss of a town member.

[BBM]

Lucy believes that her role prevents her target from being visited by anyone else. Meaning you would have been unable to "barter" with Shinori unless you have higher priority than her.

Also, you're the only person who's claimed a role that COULD cause me to lose my item. There is, as I said in my previous post, a possibility that there is another person with the ability to take my item. But, as I said earlier, I trust Lucy more than I trust you. So unless you have higher priority than her, I think it's likely you're lying about targeting Shinori. And if you ARE lying about that, it's hardly a stretch to imagine that you might be lying about not targeting me.

[MancerNecro]

And yet I'm not lying. There's nothing but my claim for this, I do realise but I'm going to say again that I'm not lying.

[Helios]

##Vote Mancer

Finally been able to catch up inthread since I haven't been around much today, but I can support this.

• Jailer contradiction. Unless priorities are strange, or I'm not properly understanding the jailer role, Mancer should not have been able to target Shinori last night.
• It looks pretty opportunistic that Mancer would claim to have targeted someone who wasn't able to speak to confirm whether or not he had the item in the first place as well.
• His defenses are ironically "please believe me I'm town", when he's calling BBM out for using a FMPOV defense.
• Overall not liking his reactions to everything; I guess you can say this is more of a meta/gut vibe thing.
• Preferring BBM's reactions and arguments over his.

[Ema Skye]

Contradicition is over. Mancer's role should have gone through to Shinori. Jailer shouldn't have blocked it.

Please resume with your scumhunting.

[MancerNecro]

Contradicition is over. Mancer's role should have gone through to Shinori. Jailer shouldn't have blocked it.

Please resume with your scumhunting.

I believe town would just go on with my wagon all the way instead of trying to scumhunt though.

[a.f.k.a. Howard Hughes]

Sho's two and half cents with some starwberry milkshakes and a chocolade

Neither BBM or MAncer seems scummy to me.

BBM is doing the logical thing. I would likely do the same if my iyem had been stolen.

Mancer told around of his role way too much last night to way too many people just to go and steal from BBM, exspecially when I specifically told him to target shinori. As for her subjective arguments, they are - for me - a sign of inexperience, not scum.

As for my scum reads, Baldrick and 13th are up there. Oportunistic voting, policy voting, unclear motives. Thats pretty scummy to me. I would like them to explain themselves.

And then there is helios...

Finally been able to catch up inthread since I haven't been around much today, but I can support this. <br style="color: rgb(28, 40, 55); font-size: 13px; line-height: 19px; background-color: rgb(250, 251, 252);">

• Jailer contradiction. Unless priorities are strange, or I'm not properly understanding the jailer role, Mancer should not have been able to target Shinori last night.
• It looks pretty opportunistic that Mancer would claim to have targeted someone who wasn't able to speak to confirm whether or not he had the item in the first place as well.
• His defenses are ironically "please believe me I'm town", when he's calling BBM out for using a FMPOV defense.
• Overall not liking his reactions to everything; I guess you can say this is more of a meta/gut vibe thing.
• Preferring BBM's reactions and arguments over his

B) Specifically stated was ordered to do so night 0 (this was confirmed). SOunds awfully lot like oportunistic voting.

Anyway I would love the 3 mentioned palyers to explain themselves for they are being more scummy to me than mancer

[Deliriyum]

OK, while I admit my old post looked scummy, I jumped the Mancer wagon out of more scum reads than BBM. BBM's only real scum reads I got were his points, which had something triggering my scumdar enough, mainly because the case has struck me as fishy. More fishy on his part as to yours, but one thing strikes me, and I'm sure you covered it already with me, but Why would you tell him you had an item if you knew he dealt with items. Something just does not seem right.

Again, as Mancer continues to show up as scummy, I am still going to hold my vote.

For reference, next time I get on will be for approx. 10 minutes tomorrow morning (in 8 hours) and then for maybe an hour or three in 16 hours. School starting is ALWAYS fun.

BBM started the mancer wagon, while you just jumped on. I think those are two completely different interactions but you're comparing them and attacking BBM with that. Seems like a really weak attack.

And just a heads up, I have to work after school today.