The Lunatic Club

[Roflolxp54]

Its not that I don't adapt to randomness, its that it feels to punishing like when I need to kill someone now, if I miss, I set a backup plan. Lunatic+ feels like I am not given enough resources to set that backup plan most of the times.

Plus I don't like the idea of resetting by principle. It takes away the weight of my decisions, and this isn't a problem in other difficulties, because its still possible regardless if you lose Fred.

Might as well just agree to disagree. Maybe I'm just bad, but i have certainly seen difficulty handled better IMO.

There is a difference between difficulty being too restricting and punishing where it outweighs the reward aspect.

Eh, Lunatic+ can still be broken -- just like vanilla Lunatic mode, if you have DLC and are willing to use it and have a slew of powerful bonus units in your Avatar Logbook, you can trivialize the difficulty -- you can use the Golden Gaffe map to rack up gold to re-hire Logbook characters and let them blow stuff up once equipped with a weapon (great for getting rid of those promoted Risen skirmishes that start appearing after Chapter 4 is finished). (Spotpass teams are a good source of weapons that cannot be easily found immediately like Spears, Tomahawks and Brave weapons).

Even then, it still doesn't hurt to be careful around stuff like Luna+ + Hawkeye and Counter.

[XeKr]

Its not that I don't adapt to randomness, its that it feels to punishing like when I need to kill someone now, if I miss, I set a backup plan. Lunatic+ feels like I am not given enough resources to set that backup plan most of the times.

Plus I don't like the idea of resetting by principle. It takes away the weight of my decisions, and this isn't a problem in other difficulties, because its still possible regardless if you lose Fred.

Might as well just agree to disagree. Maybe I'm just bad, but i have certainly seen difficulty handled better IMO.

There is a difference between difficulty being too restricting and punishing where it outweighs the reward aspect.

Eh, most of what you said in clarification seems very reasonable.

Where we seem to disagree is your (earlier) statement that it requires “no strategy” or is “all artificial difficulty”. I don’t happen to like all the design decisions made either but it’s clearly rooted in some rational foundations.

Edited September 25, 2014 by XeKr

[Kirie]

What's the best way to go about unlocking a permanent source of second seals in Lunatic? I guess I could power through to Chapter 16, but it would be faster if I could unlock them from one of the Paralogue chapters as soon as their available, though that also requires prepping another set of parents soon. What is generally the preferred solution? And if it's Paralogues, is there any particular chapter between Inigo, Severa, and Nah that's easier/cheaper/better, or is it more dependent on who you can prepare better with the limited number of seals? Or is there some dumb obvious thing that I'm missing? >_<

[Czar_Yoshi]

Inigo's chapter is the easiest to unlock (marry Chrom to Olivia and make sure Avatar is married), though it comes at the price of Lucina's bases. Nah's chapter is the easiest to cheese (kill the boss with Mire) and it's fairly speedy to get Nowi to S with Gregor, but you'll still have to train extra units.

[Kirie]

I've already got my pairs worked out and Chrom's with FeMU so Chrom!Inigo's not an option, but the Nah bit is tempting. I didn't think you could get Mire that soon, but looking at the locations list on the main site, it seems you can buy them from some of the SpotPass teams (aside from getting the bonus Paralogues, I've not really dabbled with SpotPass at all). I can likely work up enough extra units to survive that, especially since I'll have a relatively strong Chrom/MU pair by then for Lucina's recruiting.

[Czar_Yoshi]

There's no fighting required to buy Spotpass items. They're literally shops you can summon onto the map. Want Braves right off the bat? Sure, money and weapon rank are the only thing keeping you from them. Early Levin Swords are probably the biggest boon Spotpass gives (for Lunatic+) though.

The only thing holding them back from being complete gamebreakers is that they don't sell Seals, Rescue or Statboosters.

[Irysa]

Quick query about EXP in nogrind Lunatic; assuming I have 6 units promoted at level 20 w/good stats post chapter 13 and plan on at raising them all, along with Lucina and Morgan and hopefully Severa and Cynthia at some point, should I be farming reinforcements to try to keep levels appropriate? Or am I mostly out of the woods in that respect?

Edited September 28, 2014 by Irysa

[XeKr]

Depends on number of Paralogues. But it shouldn't be very hard from here.

[Czar_Yoshi]

That's the upper limit of what I'd take, but you shouldn't have too much trouble.

No need to obsessively farm stuff, but in general it's a good idea to go for routes whenever feasible. The extra exp really does make a difference (until you're capped, anyway).

[Kirie]

Finally started my Luna run over the weekend and managed to beat levels 1-4, Donnel's sidequest, and one of the Risen popup levels as well. C2 was about as bad as I expected it would be (I didn't even bother counting my resets), but had a surprisingly hard time dealing with the upper portion of C3 (though I quickly developed an easy strat for the bottom). I ended up beating that one by basically luring them all down one side with Freddie into a chase that strung them out enough for the rest my group to take out in a round, an ambush situation of sorts.

I know that I'm not the best at these games and that there are probably far better strategies for me to have used to get past those initial levels, but I'm glad that I got it past, and I actually had a lot of fun with it, too. I'm definitely glad to have access to setting up and purchasing things and whatever I need to, though.

[isetrh]

I'm planning to do my optimization run on Lunatic+. I haven't succeeded at L+ in the past, and I think my +Skill -Def and restricted pairings would be a bit much for my first no-grind run, so I will allow myself some grinding. I was thinking of allowing support grinding and some amount of level grinding--maybe 5 levels per non-Veteran unit. I will grind Renown to 50k before I start. I'm looking for advice on which characters to use. Since I'm support grinding, I only need to train one of the child's parents.

My pairings:

+Skill -Def FeMU x Gregor!Yarne

Lissa x Henry

Sully x Donnel

Miriel x Ricken

Sumia x Chrom

Maribelle x Lon'qu

Panne x Gregor

Cordelia x Virion

Nowi x Frederick

Tharja x Gaius

Olivia x Libra

Cherche x Vaike

Bachelors: Stahl and Kellam

The units I'm considering:

FeMU could possibly go Merc-->BK. She has lots of options though, so I don't know if that's best. Morgan will probably not be appearing because FeMU needs GF first.

Leveling Chrom seems like a good idea for the sake of his kids' bases. The 5 levels of grinding I'm considering would help him make the most of Chapter 5. Would it be a good idea to reclass to Archer at some point?

Miriel is an option, but I don't want to recruit Laurent until she gets DSu+, which probably isn't happening ingame.

Virion might be a better option than Miriel for the person to feed in Chapter 3 since using him lets me get Severa. With an early promotion and using the 5 levels of grinding at the right time, he could possibly pass Bowfaire. I don't know if this is worth it though.

Donnel's viability jumps if I decide to allow the 5 levels grinding, since getting him to level 10 will be much easier. Kjelle can inherit Aptitude since Donnel doesn't really pass down any male-only skills that are all that great postgame anyway. Kjelle also gets a pair of Boots in my final plan, so she can take the Renown Boots.

Gregor is an option. I'm not sure if he's stronger or weaker here than in a no-grind run, but his child is Yarne. Yarne wants to inherit Str+2 from his mom, and the 5 levels of grinding would make that work. Starting out as a Taguel is kind of bad though.

Henry could be good if I don't have someone else as a magic user. Owain won't appear because he needs Galeforce.

Who out of these or any other units look good? Thanks!

Edited October 1, 2014 by isetrh

[Rydia]

Reached chapter 17, it's a slow and painful process, a tale of soft resets, but my 'no deaths' run is... somehow proceeding. And I'm running on with a MAG+ and STR- F!U still unmarried. Since I prefere magical Lucina with Galeforce + Lifetaker and I'm fond of magical units. My best units at the moment are General!Fred, Wyvernlord!Panne, Dark Knight F!Mu with Galeforce, Dark flier Sumia, Berserker Gaius, Sage Miriel, Pegasus Knight Maribelle, dark flier Cordelia and Wyvern lord Cherche (She's the only unit I just... can't reclass.). Other units vary classes will change (I'm just grabbing their skills), Nowi is kinda tanky too but I'm not using her too much.

Now I'm starting to build the pairings too

F!MuxBrady for a powerhouse Morgan

ChromxMaribelle (Brady may not benefit too much but Chrom!Brady's Morgan is still pure gold. Not to mention I do actually like Magical!Lucina)

SthalxCordelia (A 'classic' one but I do enjoy their Severa.)

Then I'm actually considering to go with unpopular choice and see ifI can get something good from not too used couples:

Frederick and Panne passing down pavise from the father and... I still have to decide what skill take from the mother.

GaiusxSumia passing down Sol from the father.

Considering to try with Henry!Cherce and see how it works.

Nowi, Sully, Tharja, Lissa and Olivia are still... just standing by, I prefere to focus on the units I actually use. Yes, I shouldn't probably give random couples a 'try' in lunatic+ but Im a weird girl. And going tor the popular options only was kinda meh in my agenda.

Edited October 1, 2014 by Rydia

[Kuroi Tsubasa Tenshi]

Donnel's viability jumps if I decide to allow the 5 levels grinding, since getting him to level 10 will be much easier. Kjelle can inherit Aptitude since Donnel doesn't really pass down any male-only skills that are all that great postgame anyway. Kjelle also gets a pair of Boots in my final plan, so she can take the Renown Boots.

Be very careful when getting Donnel ahead of the curve. Aptitude actually works against him here unless you lean heavily on BK with him because his Str gain will more or less keeps up with HP and that makes Counter very painful.

[isetrh]

Thanks! BK seems like a good class for him, since he can promote to it from Merc. If he stays useful into late game he could class change into Warrior, who can do about the same thing.

So right now my team is looking like:

FeMU (Tactician-->Merc-->BK-->maybe Sniper)

Chrom (Lord-->Archer-->BK)

Virion (Archer-->early promote to Sniper to pass Bowfaire)

Donnel (Villager-->Merc-->BK-->Warrior)

Henry (Dark Mage-->Sorc)

Sumia!Lucina (not sure)

Virion!Severa (Merc-->BK-->?)

Donnel!Kjelle (Knight-->Merc-->BK)

How do the class paths look? Should I use fewer units? More units? Cynthia is also an option, but I don't really know how many children it's a good idea to train. Thanks!

[Rydia]

Uhn... reached chapter 21 and it's a pain.But I'm slowly proceeding.

I may have a questions about a certain unit, thought: I'm using Olivia for the first time, I never enjoyed Inigo and never worked too much over her, but I got her the skill that heals20% if you're alone, Galeforce, stats+2 (AH, I can't wait to try to get LB...), luck+4 and speed+2. And she's currently a swordmaster because I love astra, period, and I'm planning to teach her that. How would you optimize her? And which character would offer the best support- non-marriage-wise-?

I find plenty of threads about opptimizing children but people pay way less attention to their parents.

For some reasons in this run I found myself more interested in first gen units and... I dunno, she's doing a great job in there.

Another character I'd love suggestions about is Panne, she's always been fred's support in my files and suddenly it's the opposite. Currently mine is an assassin with Lethality, stats+2, swordbreaker, solitude and Delivery...

[Czar_Yoshi]

Olivia's best bet is to stay as a Dancer. Nobody else can fill that role, and it's pretty useful in Lunatic. If you really want her to be a combat unit though, I'd go Falco and have her use one turn for KOing and the other for staffbot duty (GF Falco spam is probably the most effective way to highman Lunatic(+)).

Panne loves Wyvern Lord.

Edited October 6, 2014 by Czar_Yoshi

[Rydia]

Ricken would definitely make him a better magical user but... he still gets a mag+3 that's not something to throw away. For the classes he only gewdwts the archer line but... yeah, I never touched it, I keep him as a sage with Galeforce,w

Thank you for your support, Lunatic plus is really challenging and I keep trying different things all the time.

Edited October 6, 2014 by Rydia

[Czar_Yoshi]

Ricken for who, Inigo? Ricken gives Inigo all three classes, not just Archer.

Ricken's not a very good unit in Lunatic, though.

[Rydia]

Sorry, my pc crashed and I messed up badly with the post in the meanwhile.

Anyway, nope, I was talking about orher stuff: Inigo will get the hero class because I have plenty of magical and sword users and I lack axe users. I just have to decide on the father, I was almost tempted to pick Kellam but I'm not sure if it's worth it or if I should save him for tank!Nah... but there's still time, I have much grinding in front of me.

About Ricken... he is a terrible unit in L+, at least in my opinion, yet I will at least marry him with Miriel to get a good Laurent, the real burden in my opinion is Donnel. Which can be rather cute, maybe, but I find him good only as father material in this run. At least Kjelle will get her galeforce, thought.

[Czar_Yoshi]

Axes aren't the best weapon type ingame, FYI. There are no major bosses with Lances (three Swords, two Tomes, one Axe, one Other), and the place with the most lances (Valm) also has a ton of swords due to mainly consisting of cavalry. Axes aren't bad, but if you're trying to go into another weapon type Lances are typically better.

[Terrador]

Axes aren't the best weapon type ingame, FYI. There are no major bosses with Lances (three Swords, two Tomes, one Axe, one Other), and the place with the most lances (Valm) also has a ton of swords due to mainly consisting of cavalry. Axes aren't bad, but if you're trying to go into another weapon type Lances are typically better.

More pressing than this, I find, is that lances deprive swords of their crucial +3 rank bonus on WTA, turning swordsmen from huge threats to relatively tame early in higher difficulties. Your mileage, of course, may vary.

[Czar_Yoshi]

There's that, too.

Although it does matter more earlygame, where a loss of 4 atk on a unit who might be doubling you is a massive deal and allows Fred to be tinked by the Myrms in the Prologue provided they lack Luna+, it's still a helpful boost. Doubly so if you're packing a Finn's Lance or Beastkiller (speaking of Beastkillers, their Atk is huge for a D-rank Lance and they don't have terrible Hit or durability to balance it out, and they get a bonus against Cavs! Forged Beastkillers are among the best weapons to pack in L(+), second only to Levin and Bows).

[Terrador]

Seems like FE has a pretty major fetish for weapons called Beast Killer.

SERIOUSLY, in FE10, as well... Christ. Who needs to save that for laguz?

[Rydia]

Axes aren't the best weapon type ingame, FYI. There are no major bosses with Lances (three Swords, two Tomes, one Axe, one Other), and the place with the most lances (Valm) also has a ton of swords due to mainly consisting of cavalry. Axes aren't bad, but if you're trying to go into another weapon type Lances are typically better.

Good point and even with Cynthia, Sumia, Severa and Frederick I lack decent lance users, Maybe I should really have Kellam as his father, pass down the knight line... thank you for your kind suggestion.

More pressing than this, I find, is that lances deprive swords of their crucial +3 rank bonus on WTA, turning swordsmen from huge threats to relatively tame early in higher difficulties. Your mileage, of course, may vary.

I'm more in the final part and kinda stuck, L+ is way more difficult than I expected and I ended up stuck at Ch.21 :/ So I am grinding and grinding and grinding... and getting new skills. And I can't honestly wait for the great moment when I'll finally put my hands on LB as well, I tried it once and I was swept out. But I guess it's because I was underleveled and without good skills.

Also... May I ask when WTA means?

[Kirie]

Also... May I ask when WTA means?

Weapon Triangle Advantage. As in, how Swords get a bonus against Axe users, but Lances get it against Swords, etc.

Edited October 7, 2014 by Kirie