FE: Awakening Hard Mode Tier List

[General Horace]

She's getting nine or so levels while leveling like a level ten unit in three maps. That's pretty ridiculous IMO.

she has paralogue 4, chapter 10, 11, 12, and 13.

that's 5 maps, maybe 4.5 if you don't count paralogue 4's first bit. Although i've not tried it, so it very well could be ridiculous. It seems roughly the same as Nowi getting 12 in 5 maps, one of which she gets hardly any (chapter 9), or Henry promoting after 3 or so maps, so it seems fair enough.

Edited May 8, 2013 by General Horace

[Da Bear]

she has paralogue 4, chapter 10, 11, 12, and 13.

that's 5 maps, maybe 4.5 if you don't count paralogue 4's first bit. Although i've not tried it, so it very well could be ridiculous. It seems roughly the same as Nowi getting 12 in 5 maps, one of which she gets hardly any (chapter 9), or Henry promoting after 3 or so maps, so it seems fair enough.

I don't agree with Nowi not getting levels in Chapter 9 but I did miss a few things (didn't count para 4 thought she said before ch 13)

Also I think Lucina(avatar) needs to go down. Her late start just hurts her too much to be S.

Edited May 8, 2013 by bearclaw13

[RNG Princess]

The odd thing is that the most favoritism I gave her was in her recruitment chapter o3o but that's because it was where I was experimenting with her as a mage. I traded her the seal, Chrom, Thunder, and a concoction. Then she moved forward and turned into a mage and the next turn she ate the concoction, because enemies can 3HKO her if they hit her but most of them had 40-60 hit because of her high luck I think. That's where she gained about 4-5 levels because the enemies in the top area went directly to her since nobody else was anywhere near.

Edited May 8, 2013 by Maiden_of_Emblem

[Da Bear]

The odd thing is that the most favoritism I gave her was in her recruitment chapter o3o but that's because it was where I was experimenting with her as a mage. I traded her the seal, Chrom, Thunder, and a concoction. Then she moved forward and turned into a mage and the next turn she ate the concoction, because enemies can 3HKO her if they hit her but most of them had 40-60 hit because of her high luck I think. That's where she gained about 4-5 levels because the enemies in the top area went directly to her since nobody else was anywhere near.

Well that is favoritism but you could have caught up elsewhere I guess.

[Anouleth]

Wouldn't Dark Knight be preferable over Sage for the durability? I can't imagine Anna having trouble killing things with tomes, what's more relevant is her mobility and durability. Dark Knight also lets her use her sword rank, whatever that's worth (might be useful for killing Sages and Valkyries?)

[RNG Princess]

Dark Knight gives her much better durability (5 defense of difference) and mobility but she loses staves ;A;.

Edited May 8, 2013 by Maiden_of_Emblem

[Anouleth]

Dark Knight gives her much better durability (5 defense of difference) and mobility but she loses staves ;A;.

If we wanted her to use staves, she'd be better off remaining a Trickster.

[Zkirsche]

Anna's offence isn't even that bad as a trickster, she would be happy with her killing edge or simply her steel sword with a bit of str added on to start with, which shoudl keep her happy until chapter 14 or so when she wants to switch to Levin, which she'll have 75 uses of at the very least. Add that to being a thief with staff use and she's incredibly solid.

Dunno about the pegs though in comparison, I want to see enemy stats in the later chapters before deciding if they are solid enough. I kind of want to see Cordelia > Sumia, but I'm not sure how I'd argue it; I just get annoyed at how Sumia is so hard to get off the ground but then all units are like that except for Tharja, Anna and Fred.

[Chiki]

Favoritism is good.

My base Sumia at chapter 4 was able to ORKO everything except armor knights. After getting a str level she could one round the armor knights as well.

[Da Bear]

Favoritism is good.

My base Sumia at chapter 4 was able to ORKO everything except armor knights. After getting a str level she could one round the armor knights as well.

The difference being that Anna is a pre-promote that will fall off because of supports, or lack of them, while the pegs are both amazing units that warrant a good deal of training.

I still prefer keeping my team even...

[Chiki]

I think base Sumia can one round everything in Chapter 5 except the wyvern riders.

[SB.]

Anna's offence isn't even that bad as a trickster, she would be happy with her killing edge or simply her steel sword with a bit of str added on to start with, which shoudl keep her happy until chapter 14 or so when she wants to switch to Levin, which she'll have 75 uses of at the very least. Add that to being a thief with staff use and she's incredibly solid.

Yeah, 75 uses. No. There are a total of 4 Levin Swords in the entire game. One is dropped from Gangrel (early enough,) one from renown in the mid lategame, and one in Chapter 25. We're really going to burn through that entire thing in one chapter? The last Levin Sword is in Severa's paralogue, and if Cordelia isn't in play, no dice for Anna. The only ones really worth considering are the first two.

[HeroMystic]

I'm not seeing why Lowmanning is discouraged in this thread, especially when the game is designed in such a way that it yields far stronger results than deploying full teams, even more so than previous FE games.

[Sol Hiryu]

It's discouraged because it's seen as a form a favoritism that doesn't accurately portray a unit's abilities compared to others in a full army. Most, if not all, of the current tier lists already assume that you are using every deployment slot in every argument.

[Naglfar]

and yet if it works better it's justified. is there a real reason for assuming a full team?

[Da Bear]

and yet if it works better it's justified. is there a real reason for assuming a full team?

The point of a tier list is to tier for a typical playthrough. Using one or two units isn't going to be done more often than using 6~ pairs.

[Anouleth]

I'm not seeing why Lowmanning is discouraged in this thread, especially when the game is designed in such a way that it yields far stronger results than deploying full teams, even more so than previous FE games.

That depends on your definition of "lowmanning". I don't think lowmanning is any stronger in this game than in previous games. It's not hard to get a team of 6+ units to the point where they can one round and never die in this game, particularly in Hard Mode where any Sorceror, Hero, or Great Lord can tank virtually unlimited numbers of enemies.

[Naglfar]

The point of a tier list is to tier for a typical playthrough.

no it's not, the point is to tier for an efficient playthrough as everyone so loves to repeat ad nauseum ('snot ltc gaiz!). if fielding fewer units doesn't serve this purpose better, then fine, but if it does, there has to be a reason why it's a shitty and boring way to tier or else you fucking tier that way.

@anouleth, I get the feeling that units are superfluous beyond the third or fourth pair or so?

Edited May 9, 2013 by Naglfar

[Da Bear]

no it's not, the point is to tier for an efficient playthrough as everyone so loves to repeat ad nauseum ('snot ltc gaiz!). if fielding fewer units doesn't serve this purpose better, then fine, but if it does, there has to be a reason why it's a shitty and boring way to tier or else you fucking tier that way.

Typical and efficiency are the same thing for the purpose of tiering.

An efficient playthrough is at the very least a great deal more typical than using liek two units and giving them pair ups.

[Naglfar]

Typical and efficiency are the same thing for the purpose of tiering.

An efficient playthrough is at the very least a great deal more typical than using liek two units and giving them pair ups.

if "typical" means "efficient" to you, consider saying "efficient" anyway instead of making it difficult for other people to understand what you mean

your second line only makes sense after you illustrate how using two or three units with pairbitches for the most part doesn't constitute an efficient playthrough

oh yeah, I'm gonna finish my draft before I make any serious arguments, but what is any kind of lucina doing above low A tier at the absolute highest? she joins so late.

Edited May 9, 2013 by Naglfar

[Da Bear]

if "typical" means "efficient" to you, consider saying "efficient" anyway instead of making it difficult for other people to understand what you mean

your second line only makes sense after you illustrate how using two or three units with pairbitches for the most part doesn't constitute an efficient playthrough

oh yeah, I'm gonna finish my draft before I make any serious arguments, but what is any kind of lucina doing above low A tier at the absolute highest? she joins so late.

I'll grant that you're right on the first line.

I'm not understanding you here...

I agree on Lucina but people seem to think that because Lucina(Avatar) has Veteran, she's S. Not IMO but others seem to think so...

[Naglfar]

I'm not understanding you here...

I agree on Lucina but people seem to think that because Lucina(Avatar) has Veteran, she's S. Not IMO but others seem to think so...

you're saying "an efficient playthrough" and "a playthrough in which a small core team of units is fed most of your resources so they can roflstomp FE13's tiny maps and never die" are different things. in which case it falls to you, or someone who agrees with you, to present a better idea.

hm. my lucina in that draft has ignis instead, I think because MU procced it against the C13 boss? or does it have something to do with the way skills are ordered in the list? the main site is horribly vague on how inheritance works. still, the way I see it, lucina could come with come with anything short of galeforce and not be S tier material solely based on joining time.

Edited May 9, 2013 by Naglfar

[Da Bear]

you're saying "an efficient playthrough" and "a playthrough in which a small core team of units is fed most of your resources so they can roflstomp FE13's tiny maps and never die" are different things. in which case it falls to you, or someone who agrees with you, to present a better idea.

hm. my lucina in that draft has ignis instead, I think because MU procced it against the C13 boss? or does it have something to do with the way skills are ordered in the list? the main site is horribly vague on how inheritance works. still, the way I see it, lucina could come with come with anything short of galeforce and not be S tier material solely based on joining time.

Anouleth has been saying that six units can do just as well as two or three... I prefer around 8 actively trained units including one or two weak ones so that it remains easy (unless you like train Virion) while still being something other than an end turn fest... it really comes down to whether you want to have a small team solo and never die or you want to have a good sized team that will take some good decision making to do correctly.

In Most FE games you would hit the level cap and not be able to keep on leveling which impeded using an extremely low amount of units, in this game second seals encourage solos and duos and the like.

The problem is that tier lists don't care how a unit does when their soloing or in the case of a game like this with so much EXP trioing. It does however take into account how a unit performs when you are keeping a good sized team and going at a respectable speed. Even if you can go faster and eventually not use as much resources in a run with a tiny team it's not what constitutes 'efficiency' according to tier lists.

Yeah skills come as the last one equipped just make sure Veteran is the MU's last equipped skill and don't learn another one in chapter 13.

[Naglfar]

it really comes down to whether you want to have a small team solo and never die or you want to have a good sized team that will take some good decision making to do correctly.

Even if you can go faster and eventually not use as much resources in a run with a tiny team it's not what constitutes 'efficiency' according to tier lists.

Yeah skills come as the last one equipped just make sure Veteran is the MU's last equipped skill and don't learn another one in chapter 13.

the former is clearly superior and closer to any definition of "efficient" that I'm aware of.

I've never seen that written anywhere, but if that's the case then the tier list's definition is shitty and we should change it? if using fewer resources, going faster, and not having to think as much wins less FE13 Efficiency Points than spreading experience around a larger team for no apparent reason, the entire system is fucked.

so yeah not knowing about the lucina thing beforehand kinda sucked but ignis is most likely going to help me more than veteran anyway. it's not like she'll have any trouble getting all the experience she needs as it is.

[Anouleth]

the former is clearly superior and closer to any definition of "efficient" that I'm aware of.

I've never seen that written anywhere, but if that's the case then the tier list's definition is shitty and we should change it? if using fewer resources, going faster, and not having to think as much wins less FE13 Efficiency Points than spreading experience around a larger team for no apparent reason, the entire system is fucked.

so yeah not knowing about the lucina thing beforehand kinda sucked but ignis is most likely going to help me more than veteran anyway. it's not like she'll have any trouble getting all the experience she needs as it is.

Better to be 5 levels higher and have +3 in every stat than get... I don't know, a 30% chance to do 5 extra damage because Lucina has ass for magic? Edited May 9, 2013 by Anouleth