Group Mafia -- Game Over

[BBM]

Okay guys, you're forcing my hand here.

Rapier is my Bulletproof Mason sister. Get the fuck off.

;/ Are you being serious here?

[Balcerzak]

Dead serious. If you lynch her I will hunt down all you fuckers and cut you. Then, I'll grab a stick and beat your head, and that's baseball, motherfucker. Gonna hit a homer the likes of which you ain't never seen.

For real. I've been crumbing this shit all day. Not so much the identity of my Mason buddy, that only happened in my #240 and #242, and apparently went undernoticed, but go back to #143 and tell me that doesn't sow some seeds about the general state of affairs.

[scorri]

Ugh. Fine.

##Unvote

##Vote:eclipse

I'm going to trust Bal here and going back to this feels ok especially after Elie's post pointed out some stuff wrt her argument.

[Grace]

Oh, and, right. I typically won't out my town reads unless I have reason to like with Shinori since I had literally just been discussing how doing multiple "Oh hey guys, that scummy thing I did was a reaction test" is a bad idea. So... actually I did have more reads than just eclipse in that post, I had Shinori too. Way to selective read Manix.

pro derping I forgot about that. My apologies.

Manix: Bah, bad word choice. Eclipse didn't push her idea she kinda just tossed it out there and let others deal with it. It seems like a weird and risky thing to suggest would have been a better way of saying what I wanted to say. I wasn't changing my argument, I was pointing out two different things.

Alright, thanks for the clarification.

Look, my whole point on clipsey is not that she's been inactive. It's been that she's been passively active. As in, active lurking type posts. There's a difference there.

So thoughts on her massive defense post?

Also, I'm aware that I haven't been exactly the glowing example of scum reads, but I had only read the thread once at that point and hadn't had many fully developed reads. I'm hoping to have the chance to read the thread again later today and get more developed reads.

That's the right answer to that question. I did unnecessarily push on you because of your "lack of reads" but factoring in the time frame it's understandable and that you acknowledge that is fine. Also I'll hold you to that promise at the end.

---

Because until you do, I'm viewing this as you saying one thing and then saying the opposite : the definition of hypocrisy or waffling, if I recall.

Hey Elie: you're blatantly misrepping. The first quote was about the test and how it catches people lying about their roles and the second was it wasn't meant to garner as many reactions as it did. The two are completely unrelated.

---

I'm not trying to undermine your credibility. I'm saying I got a vibe from your posts that I didn't like. Being wary of somebody, whether it's you or Elieson, doesn't count as undermining their credibility, and if it does, it's not undermining their credibility in a harmful way. Undermining credibility is bad when you're using non-game reasons to do so. Saying I'm suspicious of you is a comment that I should be allowed to make in a game of mafia. This is honestly a terrible argument.

uh dude: you can undermine someone's credibility in order to subtly push mislynches. scum do it (or should) all the damn time. point about saying you can be suspicious of someone is fine but the way you went about it was non-committal and subtle.

[BBM]

##Unvote, ##Vote: Manix

I dislike how he seems to be second in everything he does. He didn't start pushing on people in the Eclipse wagon or say anything bad about it until after Eclipse defended herself well, and then was suddenly saying there was scum there. Now he's voting me for being not 100% sure of things. Yes, I think that regardless of Elie's alignment, he is likely to be Hated. That doesn't mean I'm going to be 100% okay with a test where Elie lying means I get lynched. And then he said me that feeling that he was following people was an attempt to undermine my credibility? Like what? Not every single thing I say about someone is going to be a fullblown case. People can have small feelings or vibes- that's not scummy.

[Rapier]

Other than just Shin's vote for Eclipse, I also dislike Rapier's vote for Eclipse. His content can basically be summed up with: Manix talked about a qt, Eclipse didn't have content, and Manix flip-flopped on Eclipse. The first was just sort of stupid, and the second was hypocritical because pointing that out was like his first content of the game, as Eclipse pointed out. The third one isn't really true either, because a) Manix prodded Eclipse a bit, but never really attacked/voted her as such, and b) you're allowed to change your mind.

I didn't say anything before because I wasn't there, but Eclipse was. My point about her was that she never referred to anything else but inactives for the duration of the phase, not even once participating in the arguments that were taking place within the game, only referring to you and Manix with a "hey guys stop bickering and do something".

Also I don't like the SB-Rapier interactions because they seem quite forced and look like mafia trying to vote each other and then hop on to the eclipse wagon. (well ok SB's vote on Rapier later is somewhat better but their comments on each other feel forced)

What the hell? Forced? I voted him on RVS, then I defended myself from his vote and argued back against his points - that's all there is to it.

*sniff sniff* I smell a blatant misrep. Clipsey said no one was worth a vote that was active in that string of posts, not that she had no reads on them. It's entirely possible that she was townreading/nullreading the players involved. Which are still reads.

It's an easy deduction, Mawneex. She never addressed other players beside inactives... Which I understand, because we need as much activity as we can especially during D1, but it still bugs me that she never addressed one of you guys. I might be nitpicking a lot on her lack of reads in a stage with scarce reads though, but that wasn't the only reason why I voted her. Now that she actually posted some content and is contributing openly, I have nothing against her. She justified herself AND fixed the problem.

Also

I'd also be reasonably happy lynching Rapier today ftr

First you say "I don't feel like I have to worry about him", then instantly after that comment you say "I'd be happy to lynch him". Wait, what? Your original quote is this, if you're going to say I'm misrepping you:

yeah going on record to say that it's starting to feel like he's pushing mislynches, but not quite enough to turn on him.

You have lots of reads on people, you said so yourself. Why aren't you sharing them? So far, all you've said is SB is sheeping and that eclipse isn't doing anything. So unoriginal! You say eclipse's plan is risky, but you don't actually say why you feel that way.

I said I didn't have reads. Also, yeah, I said so about SB during RVS, and I addressed Clipsey when I got there. I also said why I think her plan is risky and stupid before: The chances of lynching town based on a silly suspicious toward a modifier is pretty high and not worth doing.

So, your vote on me is basically a misrep of what a said + stuff you didn't read, which I clearly stated before, like how Clipsey's plan is terribly risky. I don't like this at all. But if you're the Oracle, I don't think it's a good idea to lynch you. I also know your play isn't that great (like mine), so ehh...

And now I run out of ideas. *sigh*

With eclipse's recent improvement, I'd much rather not lynch her. Her content was lacking before, but her last big post made up for it. Scorri isn't really lynch material either. I'm sticking with Rapier, I'll check one of the other two out overnight. If I'm killed, we'll get to see!

Why do you think you'll be killed if you just outted Oracle? They're the most unlikely roles to be lynched, dude.

[Rapier]

And I almost forgot about my Unvote.

[Shinori]

Okay guys, you're forcing my hand here.

Rapier is my Bulletproof Mason sister. Get the fuck off.

HEHDUHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH

The fuq.

Rereading now.

[BBM]

Rereading some of Manix's earlier content. I didn't really realize it the first time around, but he did that thing that I hate where someone does something scummy and then says later that they did it on purpose as a reaction test (in this case, voteparking on me for no given reason). Shit like that is unlikely to get a good reaction in the first place, because both town and scum are going to jump on something like that, just for different reasons, possibly. And then doing stuff like that allows scum to take back bad play as just "reaction test".

Additionally, as Scorri pointed out, his initial post about her was partially a misrep because he took her saying "I have mostly neutral reads" completely out of context and ignored the fact that she had indeed given some other small reads in that very same post.

[Rapier]

Okay guys, you're forcing my hand here.

Rapier is my Bulletproof Mason sister. Get the fuck off.

Yes, this is true. I just hope we won't have any more people outing their roles in D1, 'cause this is getting ridiculous. v_v

[Grace]

BBM, and now you commit once I've called you out on it? Nice dude.

and then says later that they did it on purpose as a reaction test (in this case, voteparking on me for no given reason). Shit like that is unlikely to get a good reaction in the first place, because both town and scum are going to jump on something like that, just for different reasons, possibly. And then doing stuff like that allows scum to take back bad play as just "reaction test".

derp derp i'm BBM and I'm going to ignore the justification Manix gave for his votepark (which he backed up)

Additionally, as Scorri pointed out, his initial post about her was partially a misrep because he took her saying "I have mostly neutral reads" completely out of context and ignored the fact that she had indeed given some other small reads in that very same post.

Which if you fucking read my recent posts you will see that I fully acknowledged I fucked up

nice job jumping on me because of shitlogic

[Grace]

also BBM: always being second to things isn't scummy because ffs not everyone can always have original content and new points to bring to the table

[Grace]

and if I have to claim I fucking will, don't you worry about that

[Grace]

Not every single thing I say about someone is going to be a fullblown case. People can have small feelings or vibes- that's not scummy.

it's scummy when you use soft language and don't commit to it until called out on it

[Grace]

like you weren't even fully committing to having those small reads: you kinda said it as a passing thought that didn't achieve anything

[BBM]

Yeah, the justification you gave was "I did it so that I would get reactions". My post was about how that sort of justification is shit.

And your attitude about scumreads is, IMO, totally off. Not every single post or read has to be a fullblown case. I thought something was off, so I mentioned it. I didn't want to "commit" to a case on you there because you weren't an actual scumread then. It was a feeling. Your reaction to it and your ensuing case against me made me actually think you were scummy enough to deserve me going through your posts and making more of a case.

Scorri thing was like one point and you admitting you made a mistake there doesn't make you town. And yeah, you can't have new or original content every single time. Like I said in my first post where I mentioned something off about you, it's not the content of your posts as much as their timing. Every time you say or do something, it's in reaction to someone else pointing something out and then you going with it. The only thing that doesn't fall into this category is your case against me, which doesn't even have good backing.

[BBM]

I didn't commit to it until you called me out on it because it wasn't worth committing to until you started talking about it.

[BBM]

And considering nobody else is voting you other than me, why would you even claim now? Don't use that as a threat to make me back off.

[Rapier]

and if I have to claim I fucking will, don't you worry about that

Why so desperate to claim when only one person voted you?

[Grace]

I didn't commit to it until you called me out on it because it wasn't worth committing to until you started talking about it.

dude if you don't commit to things it looks bad and people can't get good reads on you herp derp

And considering nobody else is voting you other than me, why would you even claim now? Don't use that as a threat to make me back off.

if others jump on idiot. nice job looking like a fool

[Grace]

stop taking my quotes out of context and fix your logic, please

[Grace]

fuck this I'm getting annoyed

I won't be responding to anything else until day two so deal with it

[Grace]

fuck it one last thing:

Scorri thing was like one point and you admitting you made a mistake there doesn't make you town.

i didn't point that out to look town, i pointed it out because you were spouting absolute bullshit and misrepping what I fucking said in thread

[Grace]

"said in thread" could also be "actions in thread", w/e

[BBM]

Don't start calling me names, please. I've said nothing about you being an idiot or a fool to this point.

My job isn't to censor my thought process. If I have feelings, I'm going to state them regardless of their strength or their backing, because sometimes I have a gut that I can't explain properly or see a reason for. And just because I don't fully commit to everything doesn't mean I commit to nothing. So saying people can't get reads on me is wrong, especially as your read against me is for not committing in the first place.

You were nowhere close to having to claim, why mention that you would in the first place?