Group Mafia -- Game Over

[Bluedoom]

Ok hi guys I'm better at this game than Cam be happy I subbed. :3

First off I'm warning you all right now, I can't character claim, I'm gonna be modkilled otherwise.

I'm more inclined to believe the hated claims and loved claims as true if only because my role PM hints to the existence of these roles...somewhat anyway.

At first glance on the eclipse wagon I kinda think the votes on her(some of them) weren't necessary but I'm still reading the thread. I'm getting town vibes from her because scum proposing a hated lynch test on day one doesn't sound like a good idea when they're low on numbers.

Still reading the thread, I'm getting some scumreads. Will post more in a bit.

[eclipse]

Guess what, I feel lousy. Thus, I will rip posts to shreds while feeling lousy. In other words, if I hurt your feelings, grow a spine.

Shinori - You're literally the only person whose vote I do not have an issue with, since you're not trying to justify it as something patently stupid. Also, get well soon.

Elieson - Your first post contained a bunch of one-line responses, and half of it was completely unnecessary. The previous sentence is technically correct, but it's also a gigantic misrep in regards to your intention. I hope you understand my sentiment. Next, you didn't even bother to define rolefishing, even though you're accusing me of it. That test was made to catch liars - so, do you have a reason to lie about such a thing? Do you think BBM has one? If not, then neither of you will be lynched, and we'll know that there's multiple voting modifiers (though I have no idea how the hell this fits into anything, given that my knowledge of the game obviously didn't include stuff regarding voting modifiers). The fact that you turned this entire thing around into a vote makes me want to lynch you over BBM - the latter, at least, kept his cool.

Balcerzak - I'll address this, since you bothered to read what I said. FIRST, day abilities have not been explicitly ruled out by the mod, so discounting the 1 vs. 1 thing on that basis isn't something I'd assume. Hated test allows for a way to test both claims, because I do have my doubts about two Hateds in the same game (actually, two of anything, but I digress). I don't immediately assume that Miller has another part to their role, so why should I do the same for Hated? So I'm completely sorry to disappoint you because I didn't think of every single detail, but deal with it. Also, your definition of rolefish doesn't fit with what I said, because the "more to it" doesn't tell me anything useful (since that could be filled in with anything from Something Really Useful to Tree Stump). It's also a patently terrible idea to assume people should react to X, Y, and Z the exact same way you would, too.

scorri - Your vote legitimately pisses me off. See, you're part of the inactive problem, because you sure as hell weren't around on Sunday. It's like you didn't read what I posted about activity, and decided that you somehow felt that I should get reads off of the other people who were absent, despite the fact that you don't have a lot of reads, either. Also, "accidentally" get someone lynched? The only accident will be if either of them lied about their role. As for me asking to stop the petty bickering? All I saw was an argument that was going nowhere, and all it would do is give someone like you an excuse not to do things. In other words, your original vote was extremely hypocritical, and the fact that you're now justifying your vote while conveniently ignoring the fact that most of the game wasn't present tells me that you're either being extremely lazy or seriously misrepping me. Given the amount of weak language ("It seems" is really noncommittal) in your initial vote, coupled with the fact that your vote on me is partially backed up by your own admission, I'm leaning towards misrep.

Shin - Pot, kettle. Until you come up with a better case that isn't a bloody echo, that's your response.

BBM - No vote, but I'll respond to this. I saw Balcerzak in the topic that day, which was more than I saw out of people that weren't myself/you/Shinori/Manix (none of who I felt were worth votes); thus, my vote for Balcerzak.

Rapier - No, you don't get to justify a vote on me like that and get away with it. Did you even read the part where I said I was angry with you guys? Why should I give out reads that would be a whole lot of "fuck you all for being lazy"? That was a lazy wagon, I called it such, and you just HAD to hop on. Lastly, don't patronize me - I didn't see you doing anything useful earlier. Also, what the fuck is this about me being inactive? Two-thirds of the game wasn't even present in the time frame I outlined, including you, in case you missed/failed to read my post.

Bluedoom - HI!

Now that I've explained WHY I suggested it. . .

Bananas - I know you moved your vote, but I'm gonna respond to it anyway. See, I listen to other people. I threw that idea out because nothing was happening, and I wanted something to happen. The people who were present on Sunday HST pointed out what was wrong with it, which is why I dropped it. Good or bad, if it's something that I think should be shared, I will. As for what they'd talk about, the only fruitful discussion vein I could see would be Manix talking about BBM - Shinori's discussion revolved around people that weren't there, which doesn't help with reads on them. I answered the rest in my first rant.

I want to lynch a full quarter of the game - Elieson for not answering my rolefishing question AND getting up in arms over my idea (it wasn't meant to be a reaction test, but I wound up getting useful stuff out of it, so WTF), scorri for everything that I outlined, Shin for providing nothing original. Since Shin has votes to answer for, I'm going with this.

##Unvote

##Vote: scorri

Take my vote and run with it, because that's a better case than the entirety of the drivel I've seen against me. I vote who I will, and I give exactly no shits if this makes me scummier - I will speak my mind.

[BBM]

Huh? How can the scumteam be low on numbers? It's D1.

[Bluedoom]

Huh? How can the scumteam be low on numbers? It's D1.

Well scumteam starts outnumbered by town right? That's what I meant

[Bluedoom]

Welp, I can type. Bal: I meant to say Loved as described. I apparently just can't type. Good job catching that.

As for sourcing my stuff, ok, lets see.

So eclipse starts off with asking about her idea but doesn't really push it. She kinda just lets everyone else discuss it and once people start doing that she drops it in favor of

So she pokes at Bal to try and get him to do something.

Next,

and

She's basically all "you guys are wasting your time here, you should do something else." when the thing had largely died down yet she provides nothing else to discuss. She's frustrated with what's being discussed, indicating that she wants to talk about other things yet isn't offering up anything of her own. She's distancing herself from the current conversation by not adding in anything except that it's a waste of time while at the same time encouraging other people to do something by telling them they're wasting their time.

Finally,

That's not doing something. That's called doing nothing while having an excuse for not doing anything.

Basically, until eclipse had a decent number of votes on her, she did very little. She came up with an idea but then didn't push it at all and instead let others discuss it and then tried to direct conversation without actually contributing anything herself. Thus the passive and manipulating feel I got from her.

Ok, first off, I don't like this post at all. Let me elaborate how:

Quote No.1 was posted barely 2 hours after the proposal of her idea, and only people I can even remember who talked during the timespan of all her posts you quoted are BBM, Shinori and Manix. There's Shin too(who's posting filler IMO but I'll check him again) and she had already stated she didn't feel anything off with those posters. She already proposed her idea- what more did you expect her to do when she had a null read on whoever was posting around her online timings.

Quotes No. 2 and 3 were posted 3-4 hours after Quote no.1, and its again the same people with their arguments and she considers it to be worthless. No one new has shown up yet, so the only things she STILL has to talk about are the posters who she has a null on.

Quote No.4 is understandable because she wants opinions on her idea from other players in the game. Note its still the same posters throughout this. No one else in the game had showed up.

What else was she supposed to do? She did what she could atm- all the posts of hers you quoted cover only a span of 8 hours. I don't see good logic here.

I view your vote on eclipse as a misrep of her posts. Loved modifier or no, the misrepping is quite scummy.

##Vote: Scorri

EDIT: Also eclipse ninja'd me oh well. Shin's posts came way after eclipse posts apparently. Also Scorri ISO says she didn't have any other scumreads. She handwaved all the others in the game as neutral reads. She looks bad atm.

[BBM]

Yeah, but that's not really any lower in numbers than they'd regularly be, so I'm not really sure what you're trying to go for there. I don't think that was a scumslip, but idk.

Eclipse's response makes me feel better about her.

Other than just Shin's vote for Eclipse, I also dislike Rapier's vote for Eclipse. His content can basically be summed up with: Manix talked about a qt, Eclipse didn't have content, and Manix flip-flopped on Eclipse. The first was just sort of stupid, and the second was hypocritical because pointing that out was like his first content of the game, as Eclipse pointed out. The third one isn't really true either, because a) Manix prodded Eclipse a bit, but never really attacked/voted her as such, and b) you're allowed to change your mind.

[Shinori]

##Unvote:

##Vote: Shin

Vote on eclipse seems weird. Also I thought his vote on bbm was partially opportunistic.

Also going to keep an eye on this scorri case that is popping up by people.

[Bluedoom]

Also I don't like the SB-Rapier interactions because they seem quite forced and look like mafia trying to vote each other and then hop on to the eclipse wagon. (well ok SB's vote on Rapier later is somewhat better but their comments on each other feel forced)

Shin's vote on eclipse sux- but you guys already knew that.

I like Balcerzak's explanation for his eclipse vote- I don't agree with his train of thought but at least his vote is because he sees scum intent in eclipse proposing a plan- this isn't utter misrep but more of a disagreement, so I'm inclined to think he might be town on the wagon.

[Grace]

because I don't particularly like her defence as it stands.

Eclipse's response makes me feel better about her.

you're doing it again. what made you change your mind? what about her response made you feel better about her?

also does anyone else have opinions on this?

actual content once I have dinner

[eclipse]

One thing though before my brain shuts down:

this screams AtE but I'm not quite sure what to think of it yet. anyone else wanna take a stab at figuring out what's behind this?

I think it might be a gentle play on how I do things. I'm not gonna read too much into it.

[Balcerzak]

this screams AtE but I'm not quite sure what to think of it yet. anyone else wanna take a stab at figuring out what's behind this?

Upon reread, I can indeed see it coming off that way, and if eclipse feel that I was degrading her play, or acting unnecessarily provocatively, then she can ask me for an apology, and it will be swiftly handed out. I tried to attack the foolhardiness of the idea, and leave the player out of it, but it seems I slipped up a bit at the very end. This is uncannily similar to a comment that I know set me right on edge in a previous game, and I'm kind of ashamed to admit that.

Also, eclipse is totally correct, I did pop in on Sunday afternoon for a quick read, but I was mostly checking to make sure both that my sister had shown up and was participating in our lovely little group play, and also that she wasn't flirting too outrageously with anyone, nor that anybody was trying to get into her pants. While sure, she's older, and technically the "big sister", we all know who's more reliable, dependable, and in charge. It's pretty much my self-appointed job to keep her safe and make sure no-one fucks with her. Oh, please, don't look at me with those hurt eyes. It's just words, girl, and you know it's true! What, now you're telling me not to act so macho, and to leave the reckless posturing to the men? Puh-leaze. A girl's gotta exude confidence, ain't nothing wrong with that.

But yeah, I was mostly skimming, looking for some specific things, and then I was tired and kind of fell asleep without contributing. Pretty terrible play on my part, but I don't really have any good excuse for it.

Anyway, from what I'm seeing of eclipse's defense, it's the sort of standard well-reasoned post one has come to expect from seeing from her. Not only is she addressing the votes, she's also still keeping an eye out for and attempting to hunt for scum, and not getting sucked into the tunnel of total defense. I'll probably have to take another look at it tomorrow to be 100% sure, and I'll need some time to go over the recent points on scorri, and see how I feel about those.

[eclipse]

Upon reread, I can indeed see it coming off that way, and if eclipse feel that I was degrading her play, or acting unnecessarily provocatively, then she can ask me for an apology, and it will be swiftly handed out. I tried to attack the foolhardiness of the idea, and leave the player out of it, but it seems I slipped up a bit at the very end. This is uncannily similar to a comment that I know set me right on edge in a previous game, and I'm kind of ashamed to admit that.

Also, eclipse is totally correct, I did pop in on Sunday afternoon for a quick read, but I was mostly checking to make sure both that my sister had shown up and was participating in our lovely little group play, and also that she wasn't flirting too outrageously with anyone, nor that anybody was trying to get into her pants. While sure, she's older, and technically the "big sister", we all know who's more reliable, dependable, and in charge. It's pretty much my self-appointed job to keep her safe and make sure no-one fucks with her. Oh, please, don't look at me with those hurt eyes. It's just words, girl, and you know it's true! What, now you're telling me not to act so macho, and to leave the reckless posturing to the men? Puh-leaze. A girl's gotta exude confidence, ain't nothing wrong with that.

But yeah, I was mostly skimming, looking for some specific things, and then I was tired and kind of fell asleep without contributing. Pretty terrible play on my part, but I don't really have any good excuse for it.

Anyway, from what I'm seeing of eclipse's defense, it's the sort of standard well-reasoned post one has come to expect from seeing from her. Not only is she addressing the votes, she's also still keeping an eye out for and attempting to hunt for scum, and not getting sucked into the tunnel of total defense. I'll probably have to take another look at it tomorrow to be 100% sure, and I'll need some time to go over the recent points on scorri, and see how I feel about those.

No offense taken~!

but you're scum for being defensive about your sister

My role PM is such that if I were to act it, it would look like I was crumbing a role. I have no vote modifiers to my name. So, you'll get my usual cranky self, and my posts won't be flavor-driven. One day, I will get a chance to act my role PM. ONE DAY.

[BBM]

Well, I didn't think her first defence really went to the heart of what was the problem with her posts (or at least what I thought was the problem with her posts). She argued against the rolefishing point that I never really agreed with in the first place, but didn't really rectify the part where she had no reads. She just said that the wagon was bad and that we couldn't expect her content to be any better with the activity at that time being what it was. However, since you, me, and Shinori were all trying further, it sort of irked me that she wasn't really. So I didn't really think she was defending herself or fixing the problem. But in her second defence she actually pointed out more about what was wrong with the cases against her (defended herself) and gave reads (fixed the problem).

Not sure if that makes sense, I'm kind of tired and up far later than I should be.

[Grace]

Music of choice for this post:

(i don't know why i'm even doing this but I feel like it)

---

@scorri: this post can be summarized as pot this is kettle. you're complaining about clipsey not doing anything, but yet your reads as summed up as such:

Besides eclipse, I'm getting vaguely neutral reads on most other people. Lets try and do some more stuff guys.

Right. Pretty sure there would be at least enough material to at least pull some townreads, at the very least. Scumreads besides Clipsey too.

Something else I want to note from this same post (with a comparison):

So eclipse starts off with asking about her idea but doesn't really push it.

Also your idea for testing hated modifiers seems like a weird push that could accidentally get someone lynched.

First quote (from this post): "Clipsey isn't pushing the idea".

Second quote (from this post (which happened before the first quote)): "Clipsey is pushing the idea weirdly".

logical does not compute error error *explodes*

So let me ask you a question scorri: which is it? and why the change of argument?

---

Fera's reasoning on me's pretty weak, but I can kinda see it considering my activity.

Why is it weak? Explain.

---

You said you had no reads within that sandwich of posts you linked, but what about now?

*sniff sniff* I smell a blatant misrep. Clipsey said no one was worth a vote that was active in that string of posts, not that she had no reads on them. It's entirely possible that she was townreading/nullreading the players involved. Which are still reads.

Also Manix stop being so flippy-floppy and siding with Clipsey so suddenly.

If I can link/quote something that I said before you even post something to defeat your argument, there's something wrong with it. (here)

Something I want to drag out of my quicktopic too:

rapier's reaction screams town going "omg I found a slip" so don't have to worry about him, unless future content read as "trying to push mislynches"

- reference post

yeah going on record to say that it's starting to feel like he's pushing mislynches, but not quite enough to turn on him.

---

Acknowledging the responses by Bal and by BBM.

---

Now in other news, BBM is lifting his game better from before, and I don't feel like lynching him today anymore.

##Unvote

##Vote: scorri

Pressure voting scorri until I get some answers to my questions above.

[Grace]

I didn't really look into Elie but I don't really have time before I have to leave to do so

I'd also be reasonably happy lynching Rapier today ftr

[Sunwoo]

Votals:

Serious Bananas (0): Rapier

Shin (3): Xinnidy, BBM, Shinori, Fera, Balcerzak, Shinori

Manix (0): BBM, Rapier

BBM (0): Elieson, CT075, Manix, Serious Bananas, Shin

Xinnidy/scorri (2): Xinnidy, eclipse, BBM, Manix

Shinori (0): Fera, Elieson, BBM

eclipse (3): Balcerzak, Shinori, Elieson, Serious Bananas, scorri, Shin

Rapier (1): Serious Bananas

Elieson (0): Manix

Balcerzak (1): eclipse

Not voting: CT075, Rapier

With 12 alive, 4 votes are required for a lynch and 8 votes are required for a hammer.

You guys have 19 hours and 30 minutes left.

Edited April 3, 2013 by Sangyul

[charlie_]

Also I don't like the SB-Rapier interactions because they seem quite forced and look like mafia trying to vote each other and then hop on to the eclipse wagon. (well ok SB's vote on Rapier later is somewhat better but their comments on each other feel forced)

Erm, I voted eclipse before I voted Rapier. And I mentioned him a total of one time before I voted for him, so that kind of falls apart on my end.

Possibly more after I shower.

[eclipse]

Those votals seriously confuse me.

[Sunwoo]

Votals:

Shin (3): Fera, Balcerzak, Shinori

Xinnidy/scorri (2): BBM, Manix

eclipse (3): Elieson, scorri, Shin

Rapier (1): Serious Bananas

Balcerzak (1): eclipse

Not voting: CT075, Rapier

With 12 alive, 4 votes are required for a lynch and 8 votes are required for a hammer.

I hope that's less confusing. I'll probably exclude voting history again if it gets too busy.

Edited April 3, 2013 by Sangyul

[charlie_]

90% sure eclipse isn't voting Bal anymore.

[eclipse]

But I'm not voting Balcerzak!

[Bluedoom]

Votals:

Shin (3): Fera, Balcerzak, Shinori

Xinnidy/scorri (2): BBM, Manix

eclipse (3): Elieson, scorri, Shin

Rapier (1): Serious Bananas

Balcerzak (1): eclipse

Not voting: CT075, Rapier

With 12 alive, 4 votes are required for a lynch and 8 votes are required for a hammer.

I hope that's less confusing. I'll probably exclude voting history again if it gets too busy.

*ahem* I'm voting scorri

[Shin]

OK, time to be useful for the first time!

Eclipse, before that massive post you made, you literally had nothing to go by other than nagging. It might be somewhat repeated, but it's all there was to you, which at the time I believed was worth a vote. Fera's reason for voting me was because I kept my vote on BBM. Considering I haven't posted that much, it can't really be held against me.

##Unvote

##Vote: Rapier

You have lots of reads on people, you said so yourself. Why aren't you sharing them? So far, all you've said is SB is sheeping and that eclipse isn't doing anything. So unoriginal! You say eclipse's plan is risky, but you don't actually say why you feel that way.

BBM's improved a lot since he posted that terrible meme. I like his line of thought, waiting for people to explain themselves before committing to a vote. Nothing new on SB. He voted Rapier but Rapier never really does himself any favours. Nothing from Xinn/Scorri yet, I'll see how it goes.

[BBM]

First off, I'm voting Shin, not Scorri.

I can't really find a problem with what Manix says, but his posts seem to be following someone else a lot of the time. Not really sure how to explain it.

I also still want Shin to explain this post:

Mostly BBM actually, I have no idea why somebody would take a joke vote so seriously. Especially since that meme was so bad, SB was actually funny! Anyway, I have literally nothing to go on with SB, I'd like to mention Shinori for mentioning SB. Also, nice votehop, all aboard the BBM express!

He keeps trying to pass off the vote on me as RVS/joke when he says in the post where he voted me that he missed RVS, and when he also gave a legitimate reason for a vote. And I don't see what he's talking about here with the votehop either.

[Grace]

I can't really find a problem with what Manix says, but his posts seem to be following someone else a lot of the time. Not really sure how to explain it.

Sometimes I'm late to the party (I was lazy today, deal w/ it)

but ponder this: was I not the first person to start pushing on people on clipsey's wagon (even before she did it), hmm? yes I know you're saying "a lot" and not "all" but still my point remains.