Rapier Posted May 23, 2013 Share Posted May 23, 2013 So Ike makes a mistake and there are no ACTUAL consequences, and nothing actually happens to him aside from, er, getting told off? And if you're looking for another "mistake" that Ike makes, he flagrantly trespasses in Goldoa in Chapter 12. Is he punished? No. Is he let off with a warning and told to leave before he gets into worse trouble? Goldoa is not so strict as Begnion or Crimea, it seems, since Ike is actually rewarded for not doing what he's told, since he's So Goshdarned Charismatic that Kurth is immediately taken with him. Governments frequently set bounties on the heads of outlaws. It wouldn't be unusual at all for Ike to go after a group of slavers after hearing they have a high bounty attached to them. Ike isn't just "told off", maybe you should read his post again. His punishment is postponed because of the Daein invasion, which IS serious enough to overlap Greil's punishment on him. Goldoa is a pacifist country, wouldn't it be easier to imagine them warning trespassers to leave first before burning them to a crisp? Deghinsea himself does this to the Laguz Alliance (Skrimir, Ranulf and Ike as the leaders) on FE10. He isn't the only one who's "favored" by affable dragons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sasori Posted May 23, 2013 Share Posted May 23, 2013 I believe Ike being helped by Kurth isn't a show of Ike's charisma, but more Kurth being a nice guy who isn't as strict as his father when it comes to trespassers. I don't think things would have ended differently if someone else was stranded and Kurth was in the area. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anouleth Posted May 23, 2013 Share Posted May 23, 2013 (edited) Ike isn't just "told off", maybe you should read his post again. His punishment is postponed because of the Daein invasion, which IS serious enough to overlap Greil's punishment on him. Goldoa is a pacifist country, wouldn't it be easier to imagine them warning trespassers to leave first before burning them to a crisp? Deghinsea himself does this to the Laguz Alliance (Skrimir, Ranulf and Ike as the leaders) on FE10. He isn't the only one who's "favored" by affable dragons. Ike is: [X] Told off [ ] Punished So it is 100% accurate of me to say that he was just "told off". Sure. It wouldn't been reasonable at all for them to have killed them outright. However, something else bad could have happened. It could have caused a diplomatic incident. Many things could have happened, some bad, some good. However, like everything else after Chapter 8, not to mention everything before Chapter 7, nothing bad ever happens to Ike. Edited May 23, 2013 by Anouleth Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rapier Posted May 23, 2013 Share Posted May 23, 2013 (edited) I believe Ike being helped by Kurth isn't a show of Ike's charisma, but more Kurth being a nice guy who isn't as strict as his father when it comes to trespassers. I don't think things would have ended differently if someone else was stranded and Kurth was in the area. Even Deghinsea doesn't outright execute whoever steps into Goldoa. Being their case a minor accident, the GM were just sent away. Again, they are pacifists, not batshit insane berserkers. Of course, that means that, if they didn't threat those who trespassed into their country, others would be doing so frequently, so they intentionally use violence as a pretext to keeping others away. Ike is: [X] Told off [ ] Punished So it is 100% accurate of me to say that he was just "told off". Sure. It wouldn't been reasonable at all for them to have killed them outright. However, something else bad could have happened. It could have caused a diplomatic incident. Many things could have happened, some bad, some good. However, like everything else after Chapter 8, not to mention everything before Chapter 7, nothing bad ever happens to Ike. Ike's punishment was postponed because they became busier than ever. He was sent in another mission with Titania's supervision before being dealt with, and then Crimea was attacked. He wasn't just excused for his mistake nor did anyone forget about it. The war with Daein happened too quickly and they just didn't have enough time to deal with it. Also, about diplomatic incidents, Goldoa is a country that tries its best to stay away from everyone else. They just don't want to be messed with. They don't even work with diplomacy, as shown in FE9 and FE10 with their eternal neutrality toward everything. Edited May 23, 2013 by Rapier Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Topaz Light Posted May 24, 2013 Share Posted May 24, 2013 (edited) Ike's punishment was postponed because they became busier than ever. He was sent in another mission with Titania's supervision before being dealt with, and then Crimea was attacked. He wasn't just excused for his mistake nor did anyone forget about it. The war with Daein happened too quickly and they just didn't have enough time to deal with it. I believe what Anouleth means to call to attention (in fact I'm certain) is that regardless of what was planned for him, Ike was never actually punished for that particular blunder. Edited May 24, 2013 by Starlight36 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baldrick Posted May 24, 2013 Share Posted May 24, 2013 I believe what Anouleth means to call to attention (in fact I'm certain) is that regardless of what was planned for him, Ike was never actually punished for that particular blunder. I believe Rapier's point is that Ike never received punishment because there were more important things to worry about, not because Greil worships the ground Ike walks on and thinks he is beyond reproach. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Topaz Light Posted May 24, 2013 Share Posted May 24, 2013 I realize that. I was under the impression that the argument had become more about the writers favoring Ike rather than the individual characters, but maybe I was wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baldrick Posted May 24, 2013 Share Posted May 24, 2013 Afaict, it's about the writers favouring Ike by making the individual characters act OoC around him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoNameAtAll Posted May 24, 2013 Share Posted May 24, 2013 Don't like Ike. At all. Don't care about popularity, I find even friggin' PRIAM more likable than Ike. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Fush Posted May 24, 2013 Share Posted May 24, 2013 Well after taking a gander at a video on The Future Past 1 (I can't play it since I'm confined to the region of europe) I'm a little bit less harsh on Tharja regarding her daughter. It's not as if she sees her as some little tool. The creepy annoying avatar stalking libra-backstabbing still makes me hate her though Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zerker Posted May 24, 2013 Share Posted May 24, 2013 Tharja. And if there are any others, the rest of the yanderes in the FE series. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shadykid Posted May 25, 2013 Share Posted May 25, 2013 Don't like Ike. At all. Don't care about popularity, I find even friggin' PRIAM more likable than Ike. damn also screw Roy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loki Laufeyson Posted May 25, 2013 Share Posted May 25, 2013 When did this thread get quote warred? Gross. I have a special sort of hate for Valtome and Lekain. Most villains, im ambivalent toward or i like in some way. Not these two. Fuck those guys. Excellus is too much of a wimp to make me hate him. So much potential there, lost. They made him a lot like Varys from ASOIAF but so, so, SO much less awesome. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Fush Posted May 25, 2013 Share Posted May 25, 2013 I have a special sort of hate for Valtome and Lekain. Most villains, im ambivalent toward or i like in some way. Not these two. Fuck those guys. Excellus is too much of a wimp to make me hate him. So much potential there, lost. They made him a lot like Varys from ASOIAF but so, so, SO much less awesome. Well you're supposed to hate the Begnion Senators I don't know a single person who doesn't Throw Numida in with them while you're at it, and all the nameless ones too. They're wusses who can't do anything to save themselves ever :S Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anouleth Posted May 25, 2013 Share Posted May 25, 2013 Well you're supposed to hate the Begnion Senators I don't know a single person who doesn't Throw Numida in with them while you're at it, and all the nameless ones too. They're wusses who can't do anything to save themselves ever :S I don't hate the Begnion Senators. I think they're all really cool. It's just a shame that IS went out of their way to make them as incompetent and wimpy and cowardly as possible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Fush Posted May 25, 2013 Share Posted May 25, 2013 (edited) I don't hate the Begnion Senators. I think they're all really cool. It's just a shame that IS went out of their way to make them as incompetent and wimpy and cowardly as possible. Wimply, cowardly and incompetent is all they are If you take that away from them then all they have is their lame stats and sprites, which to me doesn't amount to cool :S (Note that this doesn't include Hetzel) Edited May 25, 2013 by The Fush Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loki Laufeyson Posted May 26, 2013 Share Posted May 26, 2013 I actually hate Hetzel quite a bit. Hes a craven little shit and refused to do a damn thing even though he felt what his fellows was doing was wrong. Hes a hypocrite and it felt good squishing him to oblivion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rewjeo Posted May 26, 2013 Share Posted May 26, 2013 I actually hate Hetzel quite a bit. Hes a craven little shit and refused to do a damn thing even though he felt what his fellows was doing was wrong. Hes a hypocrite and it felt good squishing him to oblivion. Because he totally could have done something about it. I'm sure the other Senators would have had serious qualms about silencing him. Anyone who doesn't ride their morals to an early grave deserves nothing but contempt, anyways. Although it would have been interesting to see him stand up and create tension in the Senate until his inevitable assassination. That could have been a good subplot for the Senators. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baldrick Posted May 26, 2013 Share Posted May 26, 2013 Hetzel could have thrown his lot in with Sanaki. He might not have survived, but it was his best chance and the intel he provided would be valuable. The senators were good for catharsis. With so many morally unclear conflicts and sympathetic antagonists, it was nice to see some villains utterly without redeeming features you could use as punching bags. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FrostyFireMage Posted May 26, 2013 Share Posted May 26, 2013 Why is it that the scumbags of low fantasy are always the nobles while the commoners are always selfless and virtuous people? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baldrick Posted May 26, 2013 Share Posted May 26, 2013 Because being born with a silver spoon in your mouth tends to make you have less empathy. And self-interest is more profitable than altruism. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sasori Posted May 26, 2013 Share Posted May 26, 2013 I did't dislike Hetzel. He was a cowardly, timid old man who couldn't stand up against the others which is a lot better then the other senators who are pretty much all monsters for no reason at all. At the very least Hetzel has done some good in his life. Still I don't think anything would have changed if Hetzel would choose Sanaki's side. He wouldn't been able to stop the others, since Lekain did't seem to completely trust him and only told him about the serenes massacre and the plot against Sanaki after those actions took place. I just saw him as a cowardly man way out of his depth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RJWalker Posted May 26, 2013 Share Posted May 26, 2013 Hetzel's whole deal is that he's a coward and is easily manipulated by those with authority. No way he would do something like taking a risk. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eclipse Posted May 26, 2013 Share Posted May 26, 2013 I didn't mind Hetzel. He's an example of what happens when people stand by and do nothing out of fear. He was a different kind of self-centered, and it was refreshing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loki Laufeyson Posted May 26, 2013 Share Posted May 26, 2013 Why is it that the scumbags of low fantasy are always the nobles while the commoners are always selfless and virtuous people? Read A Song of Ice and Fire. Heroes and scumbags alike are nobles. Heroes and scumbags alike are smallfolk. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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