Super C9++ - Game over, Town Wins!

[BBM]

@Boron- You're making it sound like I'm saying SB had a lot of great content and Rein didn't. They were both fairly unmemorable on D1, but I think SB had better points and content. It's my opinion, which is why I began with "I'd argue".

[Sunwoo]

Boron, take a step back and calm down.

Uh, SB, I am calm. You've seen me lose my cool in mafia before, have I done that in this game? That "flipping tables" remark wasn't supposed to mean that I'm angry, but rather that I'm so convinced BBM is scum right now that I will be extremely annoyed if he's lynched and flips town.

Also, I'm going to sleep and I don't think I'll be around for most of tomorrow. (But I will try to be on, just no promises.)

[Kay]

Not sure if we're allowed to do these but I compiled them because I wanted to know how far from getting hammered I was. Rein and Rapier will probably both vote me so I guess the only way there's a chance of me not getting lynched is if they don't come back? lol

Votals

Rapier (3): Witch, Shinori, BBM

BBM (5): Kay, Manix, SSG, Shin, Boron (L - 2)

Cap'n Flint (1): SB

SB (1): Scorri

Liquid Snake (1): Cap'n Flint

Not voting (2): Rapier, Liquid Snake

With 13 alive it takes 7 to lynch.

Deadline is June 1st, 10:28pm GMT

I at least want Kay to come back and give more reasoning for a vote on me. While she's probably town, her reasoning is among the worst and only really looks at one of my first posts on D1? SSG's vote against me is also even weaker than the rest, but again she's probably town.

Because a lot of your content this phase has seemed whiny. You've been kinda looking worse and worse. I wasn't really mentioning it because lol everyone thought so. I'll feel legitimately bad if you turn out to just be really annoyed town, but it doesn't look great.

btw, what are your thoughts on Shin?

[Grace]

lazy/busy/etc got in the way, sorry guys

Didn't respond to this, but this is an attempt to fit the interactions between me and Strege into Manix's already set-in-stone notion that I'm scum. Like, if you looked at me attacking Strege completely in a vacuum, away from anything else I did, I think most people would say it looks good for me. Manix even admits it makes me look better upon Strege's flip if I were scum- presumably this would extend to making me look better when I'm town as well.

I detect a high amount of BS from this. I am saying, that the interactions there were fabricated to make you look better as scum and i never expressly implied that it would make you look better if you were town, don't shove words into my mouth

what about me being the first one to say it could be a Hooker fake, being the one to bring up the info about whether or not two Jailkeepers were possible, etc?

exactly the same logic behind your claim: using it as a method to attempt to look helpful to the town

in fact funnily enough, scum are more likely to establish hard facts as such because it looks blandly protown, in an attempt to play the part of a town

anyway i'm going to do those rereads now as promised

[Grace]

i specifically say they are fabricated because scum can push on their buddies d1/2 for cred later when they flip, it's just this case the flip came earlier than expected

[Prims]

ban rapier & rein from mafia

will switch vote to bbm if rapier posts something (he won't)

[Tables]

I've not got an issue with people doing votals - but I am trying to do them regularly enough that you don't have to. Of course, if I'm away and lots of votes change, I can certainly see the desire to do it.

If you do make a votal, I would consider that bad sportsmanship for it to be intentionally incorrect. This isn't to say I'm ruling against it, but if I see a votal and it doesn't match my own, I'll likely point out any errors.

Vote count 2.4 (Updated to post 431)

BBM (5): Kay, Sangyul, Shin, Super Serious Gal, Manix

Rapier (4): BBM, Serious Bananas, Witch, Shinori

Liquid Snake (1): Cap'n Flint

Serious Bananas (1): Scorri

Not voting (2): Rapier, Liquid Snake

With 13 alive it takes 7 to lynch.

Deadline is June 1st, 10:28pm GMT

Day 2 voting record

BBM: Kay, Shin, Sangyul, Rapier

Serious Bananas: Liquid Snake, Kay, Cap'n Flint, Rapier

Shinori: Rapier

Witch: Kay, BBM, Rapier

Super Serious Gal: BBM

Liquid Snake: Kay,

Rapier:

Kay: BBM

Manix: BBM

Sangyul: Scorri, Kay, BBM, Serious Bananas, BBM

Cap'n Flint: Liquid Snake

Scorri: Cap'n Flint, Serious Bananas

Shin: Rapier, BBM

I figure including this as we go can't hurt?

[Prims]

are you gonna do anything about rapier and rein lurking the fuck out

[Tables]

I've taken that as a prod request and sent both of them prods.

[Grace]

looking at sb.iso and i find yet another point on bbm while hunting

I think what Shin said about Rapier was pretty good too, actually, and his general tone I think has been more like when he's town, though he hasn't been scum in a while.

during d1

Shin is probably scum for calling out Manix's vote as funny in his first post while pushing me and Strege being buddies eight minutes later. Strege pushing Shin while not ever voting him is also a point against him. Bussing IMO.

ed2

i'll let the random 180 flip speak for itself (and not to mention the bussing point which i think i covered earlier, but the tl;dr is bbm's interactions read worse than shin's)

[Prims]

lol

Willing to put BBM at L-1 but don't want to risk ending the day until we've seen posts from Rapier / Rein. All things considered I probably prefer his lynch after seeing that 180.

[Prims]

and yeah if BBM is maf then Rapier is probably town

[Grace]

oh wow so just to check to see if i wasn't misrepping bbm i actually found this and remembered something else; he suspected shin (linked),

THEN changed his mind as per the first quote above, THEN changed his mind again as per the second quote above

i'm calling 100% bs on bbm right here right now because i'm surprised NO ONE has brought this point up before

back to sb.iso

[Grace]

180 more like 360 prims, lol

i just didn't check bbm's iso first when i made that point

[Prims]

manix what are your thought's on blitz

i agree with him that ssg should out her n1 target, btw.

[Grace]

okay i feel really really tired so i'll cover SB now, and the others when i wake up

his ed1 originally read as town, but on looking back over the entire iso, i'm getting mixed signals, particularly with stuff like this:

Not too happy with Strege's content on a whole. Vote sticks on Rein for now but I'd be happy to switch if needs be.

which in light of strege's flip reads as acknowledging his (strege's) scumminess just to make it look like he's on board with the town collective (yes i'm aware you refuted that point in thread but this is my opinion so deal with it)

bbm's flip would also tell a lot about sb, in the whole "I don't think bbm is maf" that he's been pushing all game

kinda leaning scum, closer to null, given we don't have a bbm flip to work with yet

[Grace]

okay i feel really really tired so i'll cover SB now, and the others when i wake up

his ed1 originally read as town, but on looking back over the entire iso, i'm getting mixed signals, particularly with stuff like this:

Not too happy with Strege's content on a whole. Vote sticks on Rein for now but I'd be happy to switch if needs be.

which in light of strege's flip reads as acknowledging his (strege's) scumminess just to make it look like he's on board with the town collective (yes i'm aware you refuted that point in thread but this is my opinion so deal with it)

bbm's flip would also tell a lot about sb, in the whole "I don't think bbm is maf" that he's been pushing all game

kinda leaning scum, closer to null, given we don't have a bbm flip to work with yet

[Grace]

doubleposting >_> (double clicked? no idea)

and also cut

so blitz eh? his semi-defense of bbm (here) irks me because he misrepped me and what i had said in the thread (i haven't read over boron so i can't comment on that yet)

also in that same post re rapier/rein it's like the only mention of rein in that entire post was "rein's inactivity", so his vote on rein comes straight out of left field when he said that rapier was possibly scummy (agreeing with prims' points)

yes i understand the followup post here clarified it, kind of, but it could have been more explicit initially which is pinging me.

Most people do not like a Rein inactivity case over Domudomu case because they think Rein has contributed and my Rein case is exactly the fact that Rein is just getting away with not contributing by making that silly claim at the start of the day. You could say it is another form of active lurking.

and yet he supported part of the rapier lynch due to the earlier noted point (prims reasons), so i'm really not sure what's going on here

i'm honestly unsure what to think of him at this point (a little scummy maybe but that's about it)

[BBM]

@Kay- since when was being whiny equal to being scum? Frustrated townies are just as likely to be whiny as frustrated scum.

Dude Manix, my opinions can change from D1 to D2. Shin made posts between then, and there was a mafia flip that I thought made Shin look worse. And you full out said that me being on Strege's wagon would have given me towncred if I was scum. That means it's a townie thing to do, whether or not I actually am town. Final reads up in a little bit and then I'm out because I give up. I have no real interest in repeating myself anymore when nobody's listening to me.

[BBM]

BBM- townie as fuck, would not lynch

Serious Bananas- I don't really like his play this game, but I think if he were scum, his buddies would have prodded him to post more when he's clearly there. Additionally, I don't think he would have been so blatant as to say "yeah I just don't feel like playing". Scum can be disinterested too, but my gut is he's town.

Shinori- Strege interactions make him look good, but he's been really lazy and had barely any content this phase, which I don't like at all. He's also never delivered on those Prims/Strege interactions he promised, and Scumnori when he's lazy makes promises he doesn't keep a lot of the time, where as I feel like lazy Townnori does at least post content more when he's there? Dunno, nullish. Wouldn't lynch immediately though.

Witch- Strege interactions make him look good, but I really don't like his 180 on me this phase. He started by saying that he was staunchly against my lynch, and then decided I was scummy quickly after like one post from Manix where he twisted interactions. As some people pointed out, his play has also been really apathetic. I don't think he's mafia, but if you guys suspect there of being a SK at any point, he'd be my #1 choice.

Super Serious Gal- Town from the Strege CC.

Liquid Snake- His content on D1 was really bleh, mostly sheeping against me and a weak point against Kay, and then he had that reaction test which he went nowhere with. His low post count makes it a bit difficult, but I'm pretty sure he's scum.

Rapier- I don't have anything to add here. I think Prims's case is pretty good. Other than that, I think Rapier and Shin are very unlikely to be scumbuddies. That D1 slapfight didn't look staged and Shin spent a good deal of time voting Rapier. Rapier also gets wagoned really easily most of the time, so I don't think that scum would risk starting a wagon on him. If you guys have a CHANGE OF HEART, you should lynch him today.

Kay- Vig claim, not mafia if she can prove it tonight. If I get lynched today, I think she should shoot Rapier or Rein tonight. Could be a SK candidate but as I said earlier, I think the SK would be more imaginative in their claim, with the amount of info they have. Probably town.

Manix- Other than the thing I said at the very beginning, Manix has been pushing my lynch too hard to be scum. Scumnix doesn't like tying himself to lynches, and no matter how confident he was that he could get away with pushing my lynch, I don't think he'd ever be so gung-ho about a lynch he knew would flip town. Pretty sure he's town.

Sangyul- I've outlined stuff here already. Scum I think (my read here is actually not as strong as my Rein read but I didn't really see a point in voting Rein so yeah). Her tone reads sort of town in some places but dunno. She's also advocating very hard for my lynch, which I would generally say is not scum behaviour, but it's not backed up with meta as it is in the Manix case, so I still think she could be scum.

Cap'n Flint- Hasn't been active enough for me to get a proper read, but I think he's town. He's been defending me during most of his posts, why suddenly start showing some suspicion of me now, when my lynch looks almost a foregone conclusion? It'd make much more sense to keep defending me for the cred after my flip.

Scorri- Not active enough for me to get anything here. No problems with her content when she posts, but she hasn't exhibited any towntells to me. Null.

Shin- Other than what I've said already, I don't like how he also flipped on me today. He started off defending me and then decided as time went on that those reasons for finding me town were somehow invalid? But read what I said about him and Rapier being unlikely buddies in the blurb about Rapier.

Other than that... this is mostly not valid yet as it's based on associative reads on people who haven't flipped yet, but if one of Rein or Boron flips scum, I'd lynch the other in a heartbeat.

Anyways, even though I think the wagon on me has been shit, especially on D2, I'd like to apologize for my substandard play this game. I could have played a lot better. I really have to work on bringing my play in anonymous games to regular games. There's really nothing about my thought process that changes, and my posts look the same to me, but somehow I go from being killed N1 every time to being a lynch candidate a lot of the time, even in games where I don't actually end up getting lynched. I thought it was maybe me using meta too much, or people being biased against me, but I recently played an anon game and a non-anon game offsite, and there was still a stark difference in how people were reading me so shrug.

[BBM]

To summarize:

Town: SSG, Manix, Blitz, Kay

Leaning Town: Prims, SB

Null: Shinori, Scorri

Leaning Scum: Boron, Rapier

Scum: Shin, Rein

gl town

[BBM]

Clarification: asking Kay to shoot Rapier/Rein because they're the scumreads of mine that are being useless and not posting.

Also, as I said, the remaining Mason(s) should IMO claim sooner rather than later. Clears are clears, so unless there's like no suspicion against them whatsoever, they should claim so that town knows not to go after them. Also so that Kay doesn't accidentally shoot them. Plus, since Masons don't have an active role, they can be protected via Jailkeeper without any detriment to them.

[BBM]

@Manix- I don't think that my flip will give you anything on SB. It could be scum defending town for towncred or town simply not seeing the case.

Knowing my flip from beforehand, I think Shin looks the worst from it. He began with defending me at the beginning, and then just as momentum was swinging against me, flipped. He had some stuff in the middle about me making myself look bad through deflecting suspicion and that crap, but unlike Boron/Manix who at least attempted to counter my rebuttals against that, he never did.

[Shinori]

I never followed up on the strege prims interactions thing because after rereading things I decided against it and would instead push a different lynch.

[BBM]

Not sure how I feel about that, because you could have said that a lot earlier, and your strange refusal to reveal them on D1 still feels odd.