Shinori Posted May 31, 2013 Share Posted May 31, 2013 It wasn't even a refusal to reveal them day 1. When I brought them up it was the last day of the day phase and I was actually busy and had to leave and I did state that. So I left and didn't return till after it was night phase. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BBM Posted May 31, 2013 Share Posted May 31, 2013 Rein was in here earlier and making a post, except then he never ended up posting anything. scum lurking probably @Shinori- I guess, but I remember you saying twice that nobody would believe/understand your thought process, without actually giving anyone the opportunity to decide for themselves. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BBM Posted May 31, 2013 Share Posted May 31, 2013 180 more like 360 prims, lol i just didn't check bbm's iso first when i made that point I'll take a 360 degree turn back to probable scum than tunneling on town and absolutely refusing to consider any other possibility, so I hope you're not imagining yourself on a high ground right now. Town can waffle on a read you know, and I gave evidence as to why my Shin read changed every time. As for the Strege interactions being fabricated, I call bs. You're showing how there's a possibility of them being fabricated. You have no evidence whatsoever as to why your version of the interactions is more likely than mine. In a vacuum, looking solely at the interactions, why is it more probable that it's a votepark for someone who seemed unlikely to get lynched than me voting for someone I found scummy? Face it, you decided I'm scum, and then you looked at the interactions in the only possible way they could fit with that notion of your's, rather than every other way you could look at them that would tell you I'm town. I was almost going to give up and let myself be mislynched, but then I realized I have too much pride for that, and the more I read the thread, the more the snide remarks from Manix are pissing me off, so fuck that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shinori Posted May 31, 2013 Share Posted May 31, 2013 I did say that. I didn't have the time though either way to get my own thoughts all nice and clear and posted, which was the bigger issue. After thinking more clearly I decided against what I originally thought. I still don't entirely like the BBM lynch and would prefer Rapier lynch. I'm probably most wary of Kay on the BBM wagon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sunwoo Posted May 31, 2013 Share Posted May 31, 2013 Ugh, once again, not really here. 50 minutes to look through over 10 years worth of data I'm not gonna make it. BBM, what is your basis for "if one of Strider or Boron flips scum I'd lynch the other in a heartbeat"? First of all, that sounds like you're lining up lynches. Second of all, reasoning? You don't like my interactions with Strider. But from what I can see, you don't like that I voted SB for pressure instead of Strider. You don't like it because YOU feel that SB did more/is more memorable/is not worse-looking than Strider, even if I personally felt that my read on SB was more lacking. And you think this is a scum buddy interaction. You're seriously calling Strider and me scum buddies because you think that I "build a good enough case on Strider", enough to vote him on, but I voted SB instead? You're seriously willing to lynch the other "in a heartbeat" if one flips scum just over that alone? And speaking of which, what if Shin flipped scum? Would you lynch me in a heartbeat if he flipped scum? Because I've been defending him to some degree. You think both he and Strider are scum, according to your chart, so surely you must think this is also "scum buddy interactions", right? Your SB read is weird. You say that his content is lacking, but that your gut tells you that he's town because scum wouldn't be all "I'm uninterested". Also ... Sangyul- I've outlined stuff here already. Scum I think (my read here is actually not as strong as my Rein read but I didn't really see a point in voting Rein so yeah). Her tone reads sort of town in some places but dunno. She's also advocating very hard for my lynch, which I would generally say is not scum behaviour, but it's not backed up with meta as it is in the Manix case, so I still think she could be scum. Okay, WTF. Seriously? You're also waffling on me by saying you think I'm scum but my tone reads "sort of town" in some places and that I'm strongly advocating your lynch which in general is not scum behavior but because you have no meta on me doing it I could still be scum??? If Strider and Rapier continue to be useless, I would not be adverse to lynching them. Neither of them look particularly good. They've both had plenty of time to say something, and Strider's had plenty of time to follow up on his reads from "reaction test" and say stuff on things that have happened. And now I have 35 minutes to analyze 10+ years worth of data. I'm out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BBM Posted May 31, 2013 Share Posted May 31, 2013 Your tone reads sort of town, but not enough to convince me to change my read on you. Your behaviour isn't generally what scum would do, but I've seen scum tunnel really hard before, and I think the only game in which I was town and you were scum was... Trainwreck? Which I don't really remember all that well. So those two things kind of lower my scumread on you, but not really by enough. Boron, both SB and Rein were lurking. If you really wanted to vote someone who was lurking, either could have sufficed. Additionally, you had a legitimate case against Rein, whereas your entire case against SB was "His excuse for being inactive isn't good". I don't disagree with that, but voting someone just for lurking when you had something actual to go on against Rein in addition to lurking looks like scum distancing to me. You're calling out some scummy stuff he's done, but not actually pushing him in any way or committing to a vote on him, and choosing someone else over him on a very weak reason, IMO. Add that to the fact that I'm scumreading you both anyways, yes, I'd advocate very hard for a lynch against one of you if the other flips scum. SB thing is mostly gut, admittedly. His posts aren't good, but I don't really feel like they're scummy either. He'd probably be the first person I'd lynch out of the people I think are town if I had to, but I'm inclined to think he's town for now. idk I feel tired. Too many posts in a short time. Dunno how Manix does it. Also, for some reason I was thinking for the last few hours that phase ends today when it ends tomorrow. Also I saw Rein reading the thread but then he left again. Rein, we want to speak to you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kay Posted May 31, 2013 Share Posted May 31, 2013 Kay- Vig claim, not mafia if she can prove it tonight. If I get lynched today, I think she should shoot Rapier or Rein tonight. Could be a SK candidate but as I said earlier, I think the SK would be more imaginative in their claim, with the amount of info they have. Probably town. lolno I'm not shooting either of my townreads. @Kay- since when was being whiny equal to being scum? Frustrated townies are just as likely to be whiny as frustrated scum. Dude Manix, my opinions can change from D1 to D2. Shin made posts between then, and there was a mafia flip that I thought made Shin look worse. And you full out said that me being on Strege's wagon would have given me towncred if I was scum. That means it's a townie thing to do, whether or not I actually am town. Final reads up in a little bit and then I'm out because I give up. I have no real interest in repeating myself anymore when nobody's listening to me. It's the manner of your whining. It's things like telling people that something you did is townish, and complaining about people you have townreads on being suspicious of you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BBM Posted May 31, 2013 Share Posted May 31, 2013 I didn't "complain". I said I was disappointed, and it was me being disappointed that my play had led to that. I also only said it once. Anytime I mentioned it after that was me defending myself against people saying I was trying to appeal to emotion or whatever. And yeah, how else do you expect me to defend myself if not by telling others the things I've done that make me town? I've also done my best to rebut what others are saying about me. And who are you going to shoot if not one of them? You haven't really attacked anyone other than me today. I guess I'd say Shin if you're really against shooting Rein or Rapier. Also, I don't really think that "Rapier is playing well for his standards" is a good point to make in his defence. Plus I personally think he actually plays slightly better as scum as opposed to town, but meh. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BBM Posted May 31, 2013 Share Posted May 31, 2013 Out of curiosity, why didn't you shoot anyone on N1, Kay? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scorri Posted May 31, 2013 Share Posted May 31, 2013 BBM: I really don't like that question. Either it's going to get Kay to say that she's only a 1-shot vig which gives mafia information or it's not going to get a lot of useful information (for instance, she didn't want to risk shooting town, etc., there's plenty of reasons for a vig to not shoot N1) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scorri Posted May 31, 2013 Share Posted May 31, 2013 Basically, that feels like an information dig that may or may not be role fishing, unsure, but either way it doesn't sit right with me. Also hi SSG, I see you reading the thread. Mind outing who you targeted last night? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Violet_Rain3 Posted May 31, 2013 Share Posted May 31, 2013 Also hi SSG, I see you reading the thread. Mind outing who you targeted last night? No I don't mind. In all honesty, I jailed BBM. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BBM Posted May 31, 2013 Share Posted May 31, 2013 BBM: I really don't like that question. Either it's going to get Kay to say that she's only a 1-shot vig which gives mafia information or it's not going to get a lot of useful information (for instance, she didn't want to risk shooting town, etc., there's plenty of reasons for a vig to not shoot N1) I guess that's true enough. Personally as Vig I just like to shoot ASAP. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BBM Posted May 31, 2013 Share Posted May 31, 2013 SSG, what are your reasons for voting me again? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Violet_Rain3 Posted June 1, 2013 Share Posted June 1, 2013 Did you mean for jailing you? Or for voting you today? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BBM Posted June 1, 2013 Share Posted June 1, 2013 Scorri, do you think I'm mafia? You said you didn't think Strege and I were buddies, but then said later that my Boron vote was a complete misrep and overreaction and whatnot, and said my question to Kay looked like I was fishing. But you haven't really tried to push my lynch or defend me. This sort of neutrality about the day's leading wagon is rather strange. I'd like you to take a definite side instead of sitting on the fence. SSG, I wanted your reasons for voting me today, but now that you mention it, your reasons for jailing me would be good too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scorri Posted June 1, 2013 Share Posted June 1, 2013 That's nice. See, the thing is, I don't have a clue. I really don't know how to read you. I will likely vote you if my vote is needed there, but I'm not sure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Violet_Rain3 Posted June 1, 2013 Share Posted June 1, 2013 Alright, I voted you because of your consistant odd reactions throughout the 9 days of playing. The pointing out others who did the same as you as if you were trying to drag them down with you, the why me, the you were my first townread and etc. You seemed suspicious to me since your defence of Manix, but I didn't mention it till later. Now as for why I jailed you. If you were scum, you would stopped from doing something if you were an important role. If you were a vanilla townie like you claimed to be, I would save you from getting night killed, and since you couldn't take action at night as vanilla, it wouldn't hinder the town. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BBM Posted June 1, 2013 Share Posted June 1, 2013 @Scorri- Is that really all you have to say? @SSG- Okay, again, whenever I compared myself to other people, it was to show logical fallacies in people voting me over them for no apparent reason. It's never been my intention to say "You should be voting for them", just "Your reasons for voting me are not good". If you want to quote a specific instance where I was trying to drag someone down with me, I can speak more in detail about that. If I've been saying "why me", it's because I genuinely think most of the votes on me are bad. It also goes back to the fact that I think people were voting me over other people for no real reason. It's also made me extremely frustrated, and that's come out a lot. About the townread bit, that's just me being disappointed in myself. You said earlier something along the lines of "Hasn't this happened to you before?" and to be honest, it hasn't really. I've only been mislynched once ever, and there I got turbolynched in LYLO after the mafia faked a report on me. I've been close to being lynched other times, but never anywhere near the point where the people voting me were so sure I was scum that they were refusing to consider any other possibility. As for the Manix defence, once again, that was just me stating a read. It wasn't my intention to defend him from anything. It might not have been particularly relevant, but it was still a read at a point in the game when not much was being said. Additionally, stating irrelevant townreads is scummy only if you're not actually making any effort to scumhunt, which I have. If you want to persist with your vote on me, I'd prefer for you to rebut these points. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grace Posted June 1, 2013 Share Posted June 1, 2013 my god i slept a lot Dude Manix, my opinions can change from D1 to D2.but here's the problem, your opinion flipped during d1 for no discernible reason and then flipped back again during d2 Sangyul- I've outlined stuff here already. Scum I think (my read here is actually not as strong as my Rein read but I didn't really see a point in voting Rein so yeah). Her tone reads sort of town in some places but dunno. She's also advocating very hard for my lynch, which I would generally say is not scum behaviour, but it's not backed up with meta as it is in the Manix case, so I still think she could be scum. Other than that... this is mostly not valid yet as it's based on associative reads on people who haven't flipped yet, but if one of Rein or Boron flips scum, I'd lynch the other in a heartbeat. @bolded: I... don't even know what to say big deal if it's not using some meta, that doesn't change the legitimacy of the case so yeah no this is still bs Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BBM Posted June 1, 2013 Share Posted June 1, 2013 Did you even read my posts? On D1, I said that I liked his responses and that I liked his case on Rapier. About the Boron thing, I never said that no meta made it invalid, just that it made it not strong enough to outweigh the other stuff. If you'll notice, I still dropped her down to just leaning scum even though I was voting her for a long enough time that it should be clear that I thought she was a lot scummier earlier. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BBM Posted June 1, 2013 Share Posted June 1, 2013 Manix, theoretically speaking, if I were town (gasp!), what would you think of the cases I outlined? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grace Posted June 1, 2013 Share Posted June 1, 2013 Did you even read my posts? On D1, I said that I liked his responses and that I liked his case on Rapier.it's still a 180 for a weak reason (and did it suddenly become irrelevant when you decided to change your opinion on him again?) w/e i'm arguing with a brick wall here i have a headache rn and i'll address other stuff later Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BBM Posted June 1, 2013 Share Posted June 1, 2013 It didn't become irrelevant, it became less important than the associative reads from Strege's flip and other stuff. lmao you're arguing with a brick wall okay If not the Boron case, what about the other stuff? I'm not really sure you've commented on anything else I've said about anyone else other than a bit about Shin, but that was more about my read changing quickly rather than the actual content of what I was saying. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shin Posted June 1, 2013 Share Posted June 1, 2013 And no, Manix, when I say that Boron should be voting for her top scumread, that's not me defending myself. "Vote someone else, not me." I'm fine with lynching Rapier, but I don't really have anything to add that hasn't been said, and he hasn't posted yet either so. "Lynch someone else, not me." Clarification: asking Kay to shoot Rapier/Rein because they're the scumreads of mine that are being uselessand not posting. "Shoot someone for me, I don't like them and they're inactive." Boron, both SB and Rein were lurking. If you really wanted to vote someone who was lurking, either could have sufficed. Additionally, you had a legitimate case against Rein, whereas your entire case against SB was "His excuse for being inactive isn't good". SB thing is mostly gut, admittedly. His posts aren't good, but I don't really feel like they're scummy either. He'd probably be the first person I'd lynch out of the people I think are town if I had to, but I'm inclined to think he's town for now. "Vote somebody else, not me." And who are you going to shoot if not one of them? You haven't really attacked anyone other than me today. I guess I'd say Shin if you're really against shooting Rein or Rapier. "Shoot someone else for me instead." I see an awful trend. You're not trying to find valid reasons to go after people, you've been trying to shift it onto someone else. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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