IceBrand Posted May 23, 2013 Share Posted May 23, 2013 Cain focuses on STR, HP, and DEF. Abel focuses on SPD, SKILL, and LUCK. And then there's a third one that has all round stats. Not being good in any of the stats but not being terrible either. What do you think? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Samias Posted May 23, 2013 Share Posted May 23, 2013 I get the feeling a 3rd cav would be more like Lowen; He/she would have worse offensive growths overall in exchange for bulk (in both def and res). Generally I know most players would view Lowen as inferior, but he's also somewhat underrated. I'd imagine future games wouldn't make a 3rd cav's growth spread that generally low again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
General Horace Posted May 24, 2013 Share Posted May 24, 2013 I still find it ironic that Cain's are thought to excel in strength while Abel's are thought to excel in speed, when its really just bases that are that way. Cain has a lower strength growth and a higher speed and skill growth. Although that's kind of unrelated. On a related note, the third cavalry unit in my mind has always been the Jeigan. Having any more earlygame horses would be overkill. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Armaada J Posted May 24, 2013 Share Posted May 24, 2013 Actually, Frey could technically fit this archetype. But if we're talking about stats, then s/he would probalby be superior to the others in time, seeing how they would be well rounded as opposed to lacking in specific areas. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fire Emblem Fan Posted May 24, 2013 Share Posted May 24, 2013 I get the feeling a 3rd cav would be more like Lowen; He/she would have worse offensive growths overall in exchange for bulk (in both def and res). Generally I know most players would view Lowen as inferior, but he's also somewhat underrated. I'd imagine future games wouldn't make a 3rd cav's growth spread that generally low again. This. Actually, Frey could technically fit this archetype. But if we're talking about stats, then s/he would probalby be superior to the others in time, seeing how they would be well rounded as opposed to lacking in specific areas. And this. Yep. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darros Posted May 24, 2013 Share Posted May 24, 2013 I still find it ironic that Cain's are thought to excel in strength while Abel's are thought to excel in speed, when its really just bases that are that way. Cain has a lower strength growth and a higher speed and skill growth. In FE11, anyway, this isn't really correct. Cain has 5% lower strength growth, in exchange for 10% more HP growth and 15% more luck growth. All their other growths are the same. That said, I've never really found any Cain/Abel archetype characters to be "lacking" in a stat, per se, it's just that the stats they excel in they really tend to excel in. The other stats they have have always been passable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rewjeo Posted May 24, 2013 Share Posted May 24, 2013 (edited) Well, the Christmas knight archetype isn't terribly consistent, or at least it wasn't until the GBA era. FE1/11 have Cain/Abel, of course, but then Frey FE2: Nothing FE3/12: Cecil, Luke, Rody. It's kind of ambiguous as to which ones are really a "pair" anyways. From FE3 I thought Cecil/Luke, then FE12 implies Luke/Rody... FE4: Alec/Noishe FE5: Kind of those two crappy boring guys who join randomly in the middle and vaguely fit the archetype maybe? FE6: Alan/Lance FE7: Kent/Sain but then you have Lowen FE8: Kyle/Forde and you have Franz FE9: You have Oscar/Kieran, but it's absolutely a twist on the traditional archetype. Then there's Astrid and Makalov there. FE10: Nothing FE13: Sully/Stahl Across the 13 FEs to be made (since 11/12 did change stuff with the cavalier pairs) there are really only four examples of a pair of christmas knights helping the lord from the beginning like Cain/Abel. You have five examples of three, plus whatever is happening with Tellius's cavalry. The presence of cav trios is more prevalent than clear Cain/Abel type characters. And only two of Kaga's five games have them. Edited May 24, 2013 by Rewjeo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Knight Posted May 24, 2013 Share Posted May 24, 2013 Finn, Lowen, Frey, Franz, I think there is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RJWalker Posted May 24, 2013 Share Posted May 24, 2013 Frey Cecil Finn Lowen Franz Makalov There already is a thrid to Cain and Abel. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Refa Posted May 24, 2013 Share Posted May 24, 2013 Fin isn't a cavalier... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RJWalker Posted May 24, 2013 Share Posted May 24, 2013 (edited) He's close enough. Oscar and Keiran aren't Cavaliers either. Edited May 24, 2013 by Ranger Jack Walker Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Knight Posted May 24, 2013 Share Posted May 24, 2013 He's a lance rider, he's cavalier enough. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Refa Posted May 24, 2013 Share Posted May 24, 2013 (edited) I guess Sigurd and Cuan can be 4th and 5th. Fin doesn't promote into Paladin either, he can't even use swords. Edited May 24, 2013 by Refa Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jedi Posted May 24, 2013 Share Posted May 24, 2013 I guess Sigurd and Cuan can be 4th and 5th. Fin doesn't promote into Paladin either, he can't even use swords. Unless you count in FE5 with him dismounted. Even then its quite a stretch. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SRC Posted May 24, 2013 Share Posted May 24, 2013 (edited) Even just having two cavaliers at the beginning of the game already felt kind of overboard. They sometimes bordered on gamebreaking, and the addition of the Jeigan character made the game even easier. Instead of being a third in some trio, I like him being kind of the loner. Characters like Biraku Mattise and Lowen are inferior to their brotherly counterparts, but are solid enough if you want to use fewer powerful units or pick a cavalier for a draft. On the other hand, a trio could work if they were spread out over the course of the game like the pegasus sisters are. Imagine: a Cavalier Bros Triangle Attack. One can only dream... Edited May 24, 2013 by SRC Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MacLovin Posted May 24, 2013 Share Posted May 24, 2013 It'd be the Lowend Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Topaz Light Posted May 24, 2013 Share Posted May 24, 2013 (edited) I was under the impression that "third" cavaliers were sort of a thing in the series since the beginning, more or less. Matthis (later eschewed in favor of Frey) was the third to Cain and Abel. Alternatively, Hardin could've been the third as opposed to Matthis due to his greater plot importance and statistical viability. Gaiden pretty much just has Clive, but any or all of Cliff, Grey, Robin, Sevr, Camui, Atlas, Jesse and Deen can become Cavaliers if it pleases you, even though I know they don't really count since Cavalier isn't any of their base classes. Cecille was the third to Luke and Rody. Dunno about FEJugdral so much, but like half the people in FE4 are/can end up mounted, so... Noah and Treck sort of jointly fill this role to Allen and Lance. Lowen was the third to Kent and Sain. Franz was the third to Forde and Kyle. Makalov was the third to Oscar and Kieran. ...And Awakening, frustratingly, doesn't have a "third" Cavalier at all unless the Avatar marries Frederick, Sully or Stahl. Coincidentally, there's no second Fighter either unless you set up similar conditions by marrying a female Avatar to Vaike or Basilio. And then you can only have one or the other. So yeah, I think third Cavaliers are pretty much a thing in the series, even though they usually come separately from the Christmas Duo. Edited May 24, 2013 by Starlight36 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JSND Alter Dragon Boner Posted May 24, 2013 Share Posted May 24, 2013 Personally I would like the Veteran Cavaliers system to return FE1 has essentially Hardin, which is a glorified Jeigan anyway FE3 has Kain and Abel. Kain being superior to the first trio is pretty cool FE4 I dunno FE5 has Glade and Finn And thats.... about it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anouleth Posted May 24, 2013 Share Posted May 24, 2013 Except that typically, cavaliers are already very well-rounded units? Even if there are "slow" and "fast" cavaliers, the difference between them isn't very large. Kent only has 1 more speed than Sain and a 5% higher growth. Abel only has 1 more speed than Cain. Lance has only 2 more speed than Allen. It seems like the gap between the "fast" and the "slow" cavalier is never so great as to warrant a third in between them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Refa Posted May 24, 2013 Share Posted May 24, 2013 I don't think the 3rd cavalier (if there is one...or more) is actually an archetype. I think it's just...that. A 3rd cavalier. Or in the case of FE11, then a 4th and a 5th and a 6th and a 7th...all by Chapter 5 too. Especially considering how different and varied the characters are that you (person above Anouleth) listed. I think it's more people trying to conform a set of characters into an archetype that doesn't really have any set rules besides "WELL LOOKS LIKE I EXIST PRETTY CONSISTENTLY, EVEN THOUGH NOT REALLY." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nicolas Posted July 25, 2013 Share Posted July 25, 2013 (edited) We know Adam and Eve has at least three sons: Kain, Able and Seth. You know what that mean ;) ? Edited July 25, 2013 by Nicolas Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anouleth Posted July 25, 2013 Share Posted July 25, 2013 Cain focuses on STR, HP, and DEF. Abel focuses on SPD, SKILL, and LUCK. And then there's a third one that has all round stats. Not being good in any of the stats but not being terrible either. What do you think? Cavaliers tend to have very well-rounded stats anyway. It's part of the reason why they're so good... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Armaada J Posted July 31, 2013 Share Posted July 31, 2013 Even just having two cavaliers at the beginning of the game already felt kind of overboard. They sometimes bordered on gamebreaking, and the addition of the Jeigan character made the game even easier. Instead of being a third in some trio, I like him being kind of the loner. Characters like Biraku Mattise and Lowen are inferior to their brotherly counterparts, but are solid enough if you want to use fewer powerful units or pick a cavalier for a draft. On the other hand, a trio could work if they were spread out over the course of the game like the pegasus sisters are. Imagine: a Cavalier Bros Triangle Attack. One can only dream... I remember in my first playthrough of Fe11, i was suffering from HORSEY-OVERLOAD!!! My only no-horseys were Marth and Meric Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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