Gerik as ranger - the most underestimated promotion

[CT075]

that is completely beside the point i was making

[Shin]

Yeah, your point. Maybe we should do 3~5 solo runs and making for theme the arithmetic mean. That will be better.

Their averages would probably work better. At the end of the day, their stats are nearly identical. It boils down to hand axe vs 1 move and bows. Other than the bizarre one off situations Hawk King finds himself in, I'd be inclined to say that clearing enemies EP is more useful than a horse which can't keep up with the Paladins.

[Smiley Jim]

My stance on this argument:

I generally promote Gerik to hero on the grounds that it gives him consistent, cheap 1-2 range in the form of hand axes. Ranger's 7 movement is cute and all, but unless he equips a magic sword(which are nonexistent until Chapter 19 assuming we don't farm them), he either equips a sword and gets mobbed by mages and archers, or he equips a bow and gets mobbed at melee range. Hand axe access as a hero prevents this, and Gerik has at worst 22Atk/15AS(still high by this game's standards)with them.

Bows in general aren't a desirable weapon type to have in FE8, as flying enemies are complete jokes outside of dracozombies, the Ch11B boss(which Gerik isn't around for), and AIDS face(he has a Fili Shield). And even against those enemies, I can find other, more desirable means to kill them(and I can avoid the two dracozombies in the final map anyway). If flying enemies were as numerous and threatening as they were in FE6, then we might have a case.

And using stat caps as an argument to support ranger>hero is an all time low. For starters, Gerik doesn't reach most of those caps on average at 20/20(he's a whopping 7 points off his speed cap). Second, pretty much no one is reaching 20/20 by the end of the game without grinding, especially not someone like Gerik, who would in all honesty rather promote asap.

[Jaybee]

Ranger having a higher speed cap means absolutely nothing because you're never hitting the cap anyway. Hero's +1 Speed over Ranger makes a far greater difference than all the other stats and bonuses Ranger gives, and also the +2 Con helps quite a bit with axes (I might be pulling this out of my ass but I'm p sure Gerik gets slowed by at least some axes).

You can have your Ranger Gerik with higher movement, sure, but how do you propose you kill, say, 10 enemies with only a 1-range or 2-range weapon, assuming they have a variety of melee and ranged weapons? You'll basically walk out of there with, say, 6 enemies dead and 4 still alive, and that wastes a lot of player phase turns to take them out. With a Hand Axe, you counter everything under the sun except Bolting/Shadowshot and weird people with Longbows. You get 10 kills easily, maybe 9 if one is a Cyclops or whatever. That's a lot of turns saved.

You can go and use, say, Light Brands on Gerik, but why on earth would you give up half of his Str? You sack a lot of damage, twice because he should be doubling, so you can... hit Res and get 2-range? Hitting Res doesn't make up for the strength loss, and it's not as though you have an absolute ton of Runeswords, Wind Swords, etc.

Bows aren't even that important, you can achieve the same results with a Killer Axe (I assume this is for things like Dracozombies) or Innes (random deathgoyles).

Ranger Gerik's only perk is the +1 Move, but that's hardly as important as the utility Hand Axes bring. Doesn't matter if you can get there (just a little bit) faster if you can't kill everyone half as easily.

[MacLovin]

but JB, Gerik doesn't have the con to wield axes!

To be honest, if we want to talk max stats solos then my hero gerik 2 turns the first floor of the ruin/tower because of the boots trick.

[shadykid]

Not for her level.

She's very underrated.

Fir also has nice bases for her level

Rutger still runs circles around her

also until someone does a faster speedrun without Ranger Gerik, it is useful for one type of fast playthrough

[MacLovin]

Sue doesn't have a higly contested promotion item and doesn't compete for rare swords and can't safely attack from 2 range and doesn't have a horse.

Not to mention Sue comes before ch7; with a bow and when she equips a steel bow, she has the same AS as Dorothy with a steel bow.

And, she isn't a bad pick to bring along due to bows, speed, mount, and being the second best recipient of the orion bolt.

[shadykid]

Sue doesn't have a higly contested promotion item and doesn't compete for rare swords and can't safely attack from 2 range and doesn't have a horse.

Not to mention Sue comes before ch7; with a bow and when she equips a steel bow, she has the same AS as Dorothy with a steel bow.

And, she isn't a bad pick to bring along due to bows, speed, mount, and being the second best recipient of the orion bolt.

yes, but saying "nice bases for her level" is not a valid argument

also, surely for the bolded you meant Sue can safely attack from 2 range with a horse?

[Hash Jar]

I just played through SS hard mode and promoted Gerik into a ranger. It didn't matter, because Vanessa was already defeating the boss and Tana was dropping Erika off. So just make him whatever you like best, because it doesn't really make a difference. Bows are still crap, but eh.

[Refa]

Well, Hero!Gerik is the most ridiculous thing ever in 0% growths, so he must be the best.

[Espinosa]

Well, Hero!Gerik is the most ridiculous thing ever in 0% growths, so he must be the best.

He doesn't really heavily outstat base Seth, Duessel, Saleh or promoted Cormag; in fact, these three have a mount which Gerik lacks.

Also, Seth is so good and FE8 is so short that a 0% growths in that game is the closest to one with growths, assuming LTC. I think FESD w/ Warp is another such game.

[Nicolas]

My first solo run in 1st floor of LR. As you can see I don't give him any magic swords because I want to show you that hand axes isn't really awesome as you tell. If i will use wind sword I will safe one phase, maybe two. In this video I have got a lot of unneeded luck(critical to the elder barel using overkill Brave Sword). If you want to reply this video remember rules.

• Gerik should has maxed STR, SKL, SPD, HP and other stats(excluding movement of course) on ~20 point.
• No hack, cheats, savestats or whatever other things like that.
• Map is 1st floor of LR
• You can equip Gerik with any no-sacred weapons which can be got without codes
• Gerik cannot take things for other character
• Winner is who will end 1st floor in smallest number of phase

[MacLovin]

Again, kinda irrelevant.

Max stats aren't very applicable and a units overall performance isn't judged by Lagdou Ruins performance, since I can just say Hero!Gerik with Boots and SS!Tomahawks and max stats plus A tethys/B ross does the job without taking valueble magic swords.

no need to get a little pedantic over ranger!gerik.

He's "ok", but outclassed by Hero!Geriks raw combat and +1 move is kind of an ok thing.

[CT075]

why do you insist on using a test that has literally no relevance to the actual game

[Doga]

Notice on how one of the early enemy phases (around 45 seconds), a monster with a melee weapon blocked you off because you had a bow equipped.

If you had a sword equipped, an enemy with, say, a bow, could do the same exact thing and impede your movement, as well as the movement of other troops.

A unit with a reliable 1-2 range weapon, like a hand axe, does not have these problems if they can 1RKO such enemies (which should be happening with a unit like Gerik).

I don't get what you're trying to prove with Ranger!Gerik.

[Baldrick]

Because this is a solo, any conclusions reached will be skewed somewhat.

That said, in the actual game, you have no shortage of good 1-2 units. You can only engage an enemy with one unit at a time, so an argument could be made for Gerik as a second-row nuke/taxi. I was surprised 1-2 range is thought to be much better than one move for Gerik, since myrmidons are basically universally preferred over armour knights here.

[Espinosa]

Because this is a solo, any conclusions reached will be skewed somewhat.

That said, in the actual game, you have no shortage of good 1-2 units. You can only engage an enemy with one unit at a time, so an argument could be made for Gerik as a second-row nuke/taxi. I was surprised 1-2 range is thought to be much better than one move for Gerik, since myrmidons are basically universally preferred over armour knights here.

If AKs were low-maintenance ORKO machines, I suspect that view would change, but they are not that in any FE game I can think of. e.g. rescuedrop Echidna or Barth, what do we care about the 1 move difference? We don't really, it's just Echidna is fast, accurate and has a decent enough offence. Barth is also hard to rescuedrop, yeah.

Edited June 1, 2013 by Espinosa

[Baldrick]

That's what I mean. A light infantry unit has "decent enough" combat, a heavy unit "doesn't ORKO". Even in games where hit is mostly irrelevant, so all swordies have going for them in combat is speed, they're rated higher. If that one move was really vital, nobody would be arguing for Hero over Ranger.

[MacLovin]

It probobly comes down to bases if it's earlygame.

But the only decent/good earlygame thwomps would be Gatrie, Doga, Luka, Oswin, and maybe Gilliam.

Myrmidons are generally outclassed and are kind of filler for earlygame

[Nicolas]

Again, kinda irrelevant.

Max stats aren't very applicable and a units overall performance isn't judged by Lagdou Ruins performance, since I can just say Hero!Gerik with Boots and SS!Tomahawks and max stats plus A tethys/B ross does the job without taking valueble magic swords.

no need to get a little pedantic over ranger!gerik.

He's "ok", but outclassed by Hero!Geriks raw combat and +1 move is kind of an ok thing.

Fortunately, I've got one more save when Gerik!Ranger is without any stat booster. I try to make another today. And I think Ranger==Hero(but it's matter how is your team).

Notice on how one of the early enemy phases (around 45 seconds), a monster with a melee weapon blocked you off because you had a bow equipped.

If you had a sword equipped, an enemy with, say, a bow, could do the same exact thing and impede your movement, as well as the movement of other troops.

A unit with a reliable 1-2 range weapon, like a hand axe, does not have these problems if they can 1RKO such enemies (which should be happening with a unit like Gerik).

I don't get what you're trying to prove with Ranger!Gerik.

I was blocked in only one phase, so if you thin while playing it's not really matter because it will happen really rare. Hand Axes is good weapon, agreed. When you use Hand Axes you don't must plan the game so much, but if you have ever playing another turn-based strategic games like Chess (or even Advance Wars) it will be not advantage.

And if you don't get what I trying to prove read the topic title again.

[Anouleth]

why do you insist on using a test that has literally no relevance to the actual game

But it is the actual game. You can do what he did on any hard copy of FE8. That isn't a romhack he's displaying, it's the actual game.

[MacLovin]

Someone is going to get familiar with the concept of LTC and Efficiency sometime.

Ranger Gerik isn't bad, but there's not much use for him in the main game since we have 4 potential paladins+seth in addition to 4 flyers and Duessell.

Not many use the tower/ruins as a measuring stick on unit performance. It's not really a good one because the first floor of the ruins is fairly easy.

It just requires 1-2 range on a unit that can survive and deal more than 20 damage at 2 range.

[not magic sword!ranger gerik]

Now there's hand axes, which are cheap and plentiful compared to rare magic swords that only come as random drops most of the time and would probobly be better in the hands of a unit that's swordlocked.

Besides, the only thing that's probobly not getting 2RKO'd by hand axe!gerik are the cyclops. And that's why we have killers.

Or use Hero!Garcia in place of Gerik since he doesn't have enough con to wield axes.

Also note that rescue-dropping and rescue chain strats make good foot combatants go ahead faster.

[dondon151]

He doesn't really heavily outstat base Seth, Duessel, Saleh or promoted Cormag; in fact, these three have a mount which Gerik lacks.

but he does come earlier

[shadykid]

but he does come earlier

Gerik shows up before Seth?

shit, sign me up

[Espinosa]

but he does come earlier

Crap, should've said "these four" but I included Cormag into it later after some thinking.

Also, on Eph Route, Gerik comes the latest of the five, only beating Saleh in availability. Probably still worth the use though. I need to come back to my Eph Route LTC I started ages ago which I left at Phantom Ship (not sure why; this is like the funnest map to figure out).